Garmin City Navigator NT Europe 2009 is out

Alun · 22-10-2008 10:58am

Rambo wrote: »

Thanks got the upgrade works well
it does download maps to mapsource and to your GPS
under vista it install the upgrade to
C:\ProgramData\GARMIN\Maps\City Navigator Europe NT 2009.gmap
I would lhave liked being able to choose the directory where the install goes
to

Yes, I got it to work eventually, as I was installing a new PC and installed the newest version of MapSource from scratch. Must have been something funny with my old installation.

Yes, that Garmin software is extremely annoying .. it keeps on putting the USB drivers in a Garmin directory in the root with every bit of Garmin software you install, puts the app itself into it's own directory in the root ... AARGH. Then it goes and hide the maps in Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data which is a hidden directory.

I just move them to where I want them and change the appropriate shortcuts and registry entries after the fact. It's a pain to have to do it though.

coylemj · 22-10-2008 1:00pm

Do we have anyone yet who has manually set the 'first fix' date to that number Alun gave us and subsequently applied for and got a free upgrade?

I got a free upgrade with my 250 earlier this year so can't qualify since they have my serial number but I have a friend who has a 250 purchased in July which he has not yet registered, hence my interest. He is now more than 60 days after his first fix so unless he doctors the date he will have to pay for the map upgrade.

cormie · 22-10-2008 1:08pm

I'd be able to do it, but tempted to wait another year and see if it works then instead. Also a bit lazy to figure out what I have to do :P I'm more hoping for a change to the way addresses are searched for than map updates, although this would probably be a firmware upgrade and not a map update?

Alun · 22-10-2008 1:11pm

coylemj wrote: »

Do we have anyone yet who has manually set the 'first fix' date to that number Alun gave us and subsequently applied for and got a free upgrade?

Not that I know of. I only came across the information by accident, in the GPSPassion forums, I think, and there was no mention there of using it for that purpose, although I have to say that was the first thought that came into my mind. I have already registered mine too, so I can't try it out, but it'd be interesting to know. Garmin aren't exactly renowned for their bullet proof security in some other areas too, so it wouldn't surprise me if it did work.

Dilbert75 · 22-10-2008 9:39pm

I just got one of these last week and registered it at the weekend. That gives me till December to download updated maps. Is there any reason to think that if I download these now then there will be no further updates within that time? Or are Garmin in the habit of releasing further updates every couple of months?

Krusty_Clown · 22-10-2008 9:47pm

Dilbert75 wrote: »

I just got one of these last week and registered it at the weekend. That gives me till December to download updated maps. Is there any reason to think that if I download these now then there will be no further updates within that time? Or are Garmin in the habit of releasing further updates every couple of months?

No. Your next update (not free of charge) will be City Navigator Europe 2011, which will not be available until this time next year. They work on an annual release basis. They could change this in the future, seeing as they now make new maps available via the web, but for the time being, that's the model they follow.

Krusty_Clown · 22-10-2008 9:54pm

coylemj wrote: »

Do we have anyone yet who has manually set the 'first fix' date to that number Alun gave us and subsequently applied for and got a free upgrade?

I got a free upgrade with my 250 earlier this year so can't qualify since they have my serial number but I have a friend who has a 250 purchased in July which he has not yet registered, hence my interest. He is now more than 60 days after his first fix so unless he doctors the date he will have to pay for the map upgrade.

The date Alun listed is probably his own fix date (2007), so I wouldn't use that. It equates to 17.85 years after 1990 (Nov/Dec 2007). Better off trying this: 593395200 (approximately yesterday, 12pm).

Thoie · 22-10-2008 10:10pm

My first fix was in August, and it told me at the time that the offer of a free upgrade would finish on October 15th. Out of curiousity, expecting to be frustrated, I just tried, and they obviously leave some wiggle room, as my free update is downloading now.

Barr · 22-10-2008 11:06pm

Probably a silly question , but do you need a cable that connects to PC to download update? I didnt get one when I bought my Gramin

BArra · 23-10-2008 12:02am

you need a mini usb cable, if you have a digital camera it will most likely work for your garmin, failing that try ebay. shudnt cost you very much i shud think

other than that, login and register your garmin, you have the option of being sent the update on cd, but when it arrives you will still need the cable to transfer the data

coylemj · 23-10-2008 12:03am

Yes, you need a standard USB cable which has a USB connector at one end (goes into the PC) and a mini-USB connector at the other end which goes into the Nuvi.

This type of cable come with lots of mobile devices such as Blackberries, digital cameras and mobile phones. If you have a friend who's into gadgets chances are he'll have a spare one to lend you, I have about five of them at this stage. Failing that you should be able to pick one up in a PC shop for about 20 euro.

cormie · 23-10-2008 12:10am

or tesco for about €4

MunsterCycling · 23-10-2008 1:09am

Barr wrote: »

Probably a silly question , but do you need a cable that connects to PC to download update? I didnt get one when I bought my Gramin

Their CS is pretty good, if it was missing from the kit then contact them and they will send you one most likely, our just get one as suggested above.

MC

Edit: Can confirm that changing the number of seconds in the xml file doesn't allow you to update, pity I would never pay them for the update as they should be included for 2 or 3 years after you buy the device not 60 days (ridiculous) after you first use it, its not like they have updates every couple of months but only just once a year... Or allow you to update the version of your map to the latest version of that map again if they did more map releases this would work.

MC

Alun · 23-10-2008 10:20am

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Their CS is pretty good, if it was missing from the kit then contact them and they will send you one most likely, our just get one as suggested above.

ISTR that they didn't supply one with some of the cheaper models. My 760 definitely came with one though.

Edit: Can confirm that changing the number of seconds in the xml file doesn't allow you to update,

Had you registered the unit online and was there already a first fix date in the online details they have for your unit in their database though? Again, I'm just assuming they don't re-read it if they already have it in their records when checking for update entitlement. What we need is for someone with a virgin unit that has been used, but not ever registered or connected to the Garmin website to check for map updates before.

coylemj · 23-10-2008 11:30am

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Can confirm that changing the number of seconds in the xml file doesn't allow you to update
MC

Can you outline the timelines here, when did you actually first use the unit, had you registered it on the Garmin website before now or did you change the first fix timestamp in the xml file and then attempt to register? Did you get the PFO response when you tried to register or when you asked for a free map upgrade?

I have a friend with a 'virgin' unit which is about 3 months old (so over the 60 days limit) and which has never been registered, I will have it in my hands tomorrow and am ready to try the same trick but I'd like to know MC's exact experiences before I try it.

IrlJidel · 23-10-2008 12:25pm

Dilbert75 wrote: »

I just got one of these last week and registered it at the weekend. That gives me till December to download updated maps. Is there any reason to think that if I download these now then there will be no further updates within that time? Or are Garmin in the habit of releasing further updates every couple of months?

I read in gpspassion that garmin will be moving to a quarterly update cycle.

So maybe old users should hold off buying CN NT 2009 Europe for E80 and buy nüMaps Lifetime for E119 instead.

"Updated 20081018 : Spoke to Garmin France yesterday and it turns out it has been delayed until early 2009. Remember you read it here first like the original news about "nüMaps Lifetime" ;-) No real impact in the US as there are no new maps available, but in Europe those who can't wait will have to pay €80 for a single map update to get CN NT 2009 Europe released on October 15th.

Posted 20081003 : After announcing the nüMaps Guarantee last month, Garmin are completing their map offering with the "Lifetime Maps" program announced at the Mondial 2008 car show in Paris today. It is due to launch on October 15th and for $119 (€119 in Europe), subscribers will be able to download quarterly updates for their GPS system as long as they own it."

coylemj · 23-10-2008 12:44pm

Now that puts a different slant on things completely - I hope they look after the mugs people who forked out for the 2009 update in the past couple of weeks.

I would have no problem paying that money for a lifetime subscription. Do you know if the subscription is transferrable because if it was then it would considerably enhance the secondhand value of a unit and so would make it easier to upgrade.

IrlJidel · 23-10-2008 12:52pm

coylemj wrote: »

Now that puts a different slant on things completely - I hope they look after the mugs people who forked out for the 2009 update in the past couple of weeks.

I would have no problem paying that money for a lifetime subscription. Do you know if the subscription is transferrable because if it was then it would considerably enhance the secondhand value of a unit and so would make it easier to upgrade.

I guess most of these common questions have been answered in the thread I linked to:

Q3 : transferable to a new GPS ?
A : no, although there is *some* flexibility as the service can be transfered once, in the case of defective unit for instance

cormie · 23-10-2008 1:09pm

That sounds pretty good alright. Would be great to have it constantly up to date, but would they put in less effort if more people signed up I wonder?

Alun · 23-10-2008 1:19pm

coylemj wrote: »

Now that puts a different slant on things completely - I hope they look after the mugs people who forked out for the 2009 update in the past couple of weeks.

Like me

I too hope they'll be fair about this, but I'm not holding out too much hope.

MunsterCycling · 23-10-2008 2:24pm

coylemj wrote: »

Can you outline the timelines here, when did you actually first use the unit, had you registered it on the Garmin website before now or did you change the first fix timestamp in the xml file and then attempt to register? Did you get the PFO response when you tried to register or when you asked for a free map upgrade?

I have a friend with a 'virgin' unit which is about 3 months old (so over the 60 days limit) and which has never been registered, I will have it in my hands tomorrow and am ready to try the same trick but I'd like to know MC's exact experiences before I try it.

My unit was bought last Feb IIRC and I cannot recall ever registering it but I may well have, sorry for being vague but I know I definitely registered my eTrex Vista (for Geocaching) (in fact Garmin gave me that one for free due to a menu being missing from the OS of a lower spec unit I had just bought) but hey if this new system comes in then I'm all for paying the €119 for lifetime updates.

MC

coylemj · 23-10-2008 2:28pm

But what happened next? You doctored the first fix timestamp in the xml file (which editor did you use), and then.... can you give us all the gory details please.

Thoie · 23-10-2008 6:24pm

Can anyone answer this one?

When I went to update, it asked me if I wanted to update UK and Ireland, or Europe on my system. I went for UK and Ireland as that's the most useful for me. However there are odd occasions I might want to drive on continental Europe. If I run the program again, is there a simple way to put "Europe" on an SD card using the program they supplied?

coylemj · 23-10-2008 6:28pm

Whether you have the required memory depends on the model but if it asked you the question then the unit probably has the capacity so go ahead and try it.

Krusty_Clown · 23-10-2008 7:19pm

coylemj wrote: »

But what happened next? You doctored the first fix timestamp in the xml file (which editor did you use), and then.... can you give us all the gory details please.

With the new NuviLifetimes offer, you've nothing to lose with your friends unit so why not go ahead and try it?

coylemj · 24-10-2008 1:14pm

Ok, tried it but it keeps reverting back to the original value.

Munster_Cycling, this is the level of detail I was looking for after your efforts...

My friends Nuvi 250 was first used on August 23rd, I attached the unit to my laptop and installed MS XML Editor, I then copied the GarminDevice.xml file from the

\Garmin directory on the Nuvi over to my hard drive, I edited it and was able to change the value to a timestamp corresponding to Sept 20th, I then saved the file and copied it back to the Nuvi. I then did a 'remove device' in Windows and the Nuvi switched itself off. When I switched it back on and attached it back to the laptop I looked at the file and the original value was back again.

Next time I replaced the file but this time I just whipped the USB cable out of the laptop without doing a 'remove device'. I then switched on the Nuvi, let it do it's startup and attached the USB cable to the laptop but the original value was again still there.

My friend is probably ok because he's barely two months over the line and from an earlier post I think there's a bit of a 'grace' period beyond 60 days but for someone who is a lot over 60 days I think this exercise won't work, the value is probably stored in nonvolatile memory in the unit and it gets read and put into that XML file at startup so it looks like you're stuck with the original 'first fix' timestamp and can't change it.

Alun · 24-10-2008 1:23pm

coylemj wrote: »

I think this exercise won't work, the value is probably stored in nonvolatile memory in the unit and it gets read and put into that XML file at startup so it looks like you're stuck with the original 'first fix' timestamp and can't change it.

What about if you connect it up, edit the XML file in place, and then run the update checking / registration procedure without unplugging it and plugging it back in? I'm willing to bet that the XML file is only there for the benefit of the program / ActiveX control or whatever it is that reads the information seeing as it wouldn't have access to the internal NVRAM. Worth a try.

coylemj · 24-10-2008 5:33pm

Good thinking Robin, I did just that and this is what happened.

The unit was first used on August 23rd, I changed this to Sept 20th. I plugged the unit into my laptop and edited the XML file in place. I then went straight to the Garmin website and registered the unit. It recognised the unit and said that I was entitled to a free upgrade up to Nov 20th, it didn't actually acknowledge the 'first fix' date it read from the device.

Aug. 23rd (real date) to Nov. 20th is 89 days
Sept. 20th (doctored date) to Nov. 20th is 61 days

So I'd say the edit worked but we'd need to find out if someone with a unit that was just over 61 days got rejected in order to be sure.

MunsterCycling · 24-10-2008 5:47pm

I used notepad to edit the XML file in exactly the same way as yourself

:rolleyes: MS Xml editor....

I'd would concur with your findings on the update, but seeing as the unit you tried was really inside the upgrade date we can't call that solid proof, we need a volunteer

<<

>>

Hey YOU!

MC

coylemj · 24-10-2008 10:58pm

Just finished upgrading my friend's Nuvi 250 to 2009 maps and it also installed the upgrade to my laptop version of Mapsource - woohoo!

Big downside - it upgraded Mapsource to 6.14.1 which looks nice (3D effect) but is a complete dog on performance. Fortunately I have the 6.13.7 upgrader so am going to go back as soon as I'm brave enough, there's a small risk that 6.13.7 won't be able to handle the 2009 maps, any opinions on this?

Can't see much additional stuff in 2009 maps, Gorey bypass is in, Carlow bypass is not, M6 westbound now goes to Kilbeggan instead of Tyrellspass - it actually now goes to Athlone - but didn't expect that to be updated.

Garmin City Navigator NT Europe 2009 is out

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