M7 Motorway (general thread)

Amtmann · 22-12-2008 10:17pm #1

New M7 upgrade in the pipeline according to this: http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/KildareCountyCouncil/N7NaasNewbridgeBypassUpgrade/SchemeName,15698,en.html

It's become a cliche at this stage, but with three National routes/motorways converging on the M7 here, why wasn't this made three-lane from the get go?

Again, it shows why future-proofing big road projects is important.

I assume that this won't be an extremely painful project to construct, but who knows when it'll get the funding.

BluntGuy · 22-12-2008 10:29pm

Furet wrote: »

New M7 upgrade in the bypass according to this: http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/KildareCountyCouncil/N7NaasNewbridgeBypassUpgrade/SchemeName,15698,en.html

It's become a cliche at this stage, but with three National routes/motorways converging on the M7 here, why wasn't this made three-lane from the get go?

This upgrade was inevitable tbh... but I guess it's the sooner it's planned for the better.

Furet wrote:

I assume that this won't be an extremely painful project to construct, but who knows when it'll get the funding.

The central reservation is sufficiently wide for a wide-median motorway but NOT wide enough to support two extra lanes and a central barrier (unlike the M50). Extra carriageway will have to be provided at either side, but I'd say it'll come within the existing landtake.

The M7/M9 junction will need modifying though. And while they're at it, they may as well shove in a M9>M7W slip.

marmurr1916 · 14-01-2009 11:46am

Furet wrote: »

New M7 upgrade in the pipeline according to this: http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/KildareCountyCouncil/N7NaasNewbridgeBypassUpgrade/SchemeName,15698,en.html

It's become a cliche at this stage, but with three National routes/motorways converging on the M7 here, why wasn't this made three-lane from the get go?

Again, it shows why future-proofing big road projects is important.

I assume that this won't be an extremely painful project to construct, but who knows when it'll get the funding.

The N7/M7 should be 3-lane from Dublin to the M7/M8 split.

Likewise the N4/M4 should be 3-lane from Dublin to the M4/M6split.

Other roads that should be 3-lane include the M1 (at least as far as Drogheda), Cork's SRR (hopefully the NRR will be) and Limerick's SRR.

It's very likely that all these roads will need to be upgraded within the next 20-25 years.

Chris_533976 · 14-01-2009 8:16pm

Where did ye find that scheme? I still cant find it anywhere on here - http://www.nra.ie/mapping/

Just doesnt seem to be there.

Cool Mo D · 14-01-2009 8:21pm

marmurr1916 wrote: »

The N7/M7 should be 3-lane from Dublin to the M7/M8 split.

Likewise the N4/M4 should be 3-lane from Dublin to the M4/M6split.

Other roads that should be 3-lane include the M1 (at least as far as Drogheda), Cork's SRR (hopefully the NRR will be) and Limerick's SRR.

It's very likely that all these roads will need to be upgraded within the next 20-25 years.

I really don't think so, they're just not that busy, even at peak times. And don't expect traffic to grow significantly on the routes for quite a while.

Berty · 14-01-2009 9:28pm

Traffic on the M7 seems to die off at the Curragh and nearly vanishes at the Cork exit.

The M1 is not that busy and really only needs a 3rd lane from the 4th exit in towards Dublin.

I think people panicked during the recession and believed the roads will never cope especially in the overly congested routes around Dublin. This recession(what a lovely word :rolleyes:) will settle the needs of the country and we will realise that the widened M50 will do just fine and with interurban routes the major national route infrastructure will suffice.

More concetration is required on the lesser national routes. There is a route which disects the country from Limerick to Dundalk called the N52 which is extremely busy which would require massive amounts of money and burn a few brains with the complexity of it but would be a benefit to the road users.

Dublin IMHO does not need an underground system, the only extra train it really needs is an airport connection to Connoly.

The western rail corridor needs to be completed and more towns need stations built.

Recession = less jobs = less income = less cars = less congestion = less input into infrastructure.

marmurr1916 · 14-01-2009 11:10pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

I really don't think so, they're just not that busy, even at peak times. And don't expect traffic to grow significantly on the routes for quite a while.

I'm talking about 20-25 years from now. The original M7 Naas bypass was built in 1983 and is now clearly inadequate for current traffic volumes.

We should have over-engineered the roads I've listed above when they were first built to save the hassle and extra expense of the inevitable future upgrades.

For example, how much extra time and money did it take to build the Kinsale Road flyover on Cork's SRR?

Think of the disruption and money that would have been saved in the long-run if the original road had been built to its current standard.

We should stop building major roads that will be adequate for 5-10 years and start building major roads that won't need upgrading for 25+ years.

Cool Mo D · 15-01-2009 11:21pm

I wouldn't say the Naas bypass is particularly inadequate. It is congested at peak times because it is part of the built up area in Dublin. Any motorway around Dublin is going to suffer peak time congestion.
I don't deny that it, and other motorways around the country are going to need to be widened over the next 25 years, I'm saying it's not all that necessary right now, and won't be for the next few years.

spacetweek · 19-01-2009 8:37pm

marmurr1916 wrote: »

The N7/M7 should be 3-lane from Dublin to the M7/M8 split.

Likewise the N4/M4 should be 3-lane from Dublin to the M4/M6split.

Other roads that should be 3-lane include the M1 (at least as far as Drogheda), Cork's SRR (hopefully the NRR will be) and Limerick's SRR.

It's very likely that all these roads will need to be upgraded within the next 20-25 years.

Hold yer horses there man. None of those roads need anything like what you're proposing. And if they won't need it for 20-25 years, then build it in 20-25 years. We have far more pressing needs now.

If you had built them 6-laned from the start (which was unthinkable anyway in 1980s-era Ireland), they would have filled much faster over the years due to the phenomenon of induced traffic.

Berty wrote: »

I think people panicked during the recession and believed the roads will never cope especially in the overly congested routes around Dublin. This recession(what a lovely word :rolleyes:) will settle the needs of the country and we will realise that the widened M50 will do just fine and with interurban routes the major national route infrastructure will suffice.

What are people who don't own cars supposed to do with the M50? What about the vast numbers of people who don't want to drive, but are forced to?

Berty wrote: »

More concetration is required on the lesser national routes. There is a route which disects the country from Limerick to Dundalk called the N52 which is extremely busy which would require massive amounts of money and burn a few brains with the complexity of it but would be a benefit to the road users.

I agree about the secondary routes, but I really don't think the N52 is as busy as you say. I think a project to turn it into a dual should happen, but over maybe 20 years.

Berty wrote: »

Dublin IMHO does not need an underground system, the only extra train it really needs is an airport connection to Connoly.

It absolutely definitely needs a subway. One thing it certainly does not need is any new connections to Connolly, a hugely overcrowded station.

Berty wrote: »

The western rail corridor needs to be completed and more towns need stations built.

Thankfully it's now clear that once the new section opens in June, no further work will take place on this completely unnecessary rail line. Also many underperforming stations (e.g. Woodlawn) need to be closed.

Berty wrote: »

Recession = less jobs = less income = less cars = less congestion = less input into infrastructure.

You nearly had that right. Recession = less jobs = less income = less cars = less congestion = more input into infrastructure. That way, you stay ahead of the game.

BluntGuy · 27-01-2009 10:06pm

medoc wrote: »

Hi
I have a quick question about the last overhead signs on the M7 before junction 7 Nass north. Even though the moterway doesnt end till after the junction, the overhead signs are green and white. Should they not be blue until after the exit.

Hey there. I think you may be referring to junction 9.

The TSM states that standard patching is allowed at the terminal junction of a motorway. But the background of the sign should still be blue since you are still on a motorway.

If it is green or white (excluding cantilevers and gore signs), then it is incorrect.

medoc · 28-01-2009 9:00pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

Hey there. I think you may be referring to junction 9.

The TSM states that standard patching is allowed at the terminal junction of a motorway. But the background of the sign should still be blue since you are still on a motorway.

If it is green or white (excluding cantilevers and gore signs), then it is incorrect.

Sorry I meant the end of M7 to N7 junction (Nass) and wasn't sure of the number. As far as i remember the overhead gantry about 1Km from there on M7 Northbound has both green and white panels and used to be blue until recently.

BluntGuy · 28-01-2009 9:05pm

medoc wrote: »

Sorry I meant the end of M7 to N7 junction (Nass) and wasn't sure of the number. As far as i remember the overhead gantry about 1Km from there on M7 Northbound has both green and white panels and used to be blue until recently.

I'm sure they are meant to be a blue with green and white patching. Although, tbh, when it comes to overhead gantries, I may be wrong. I am certain that is the convention for ADS signage, but for overhead gantries... hmmm...

I will have to check that out at some stage...

medoc · 11-02-2009 9:04pm

Sorry its not technicely the M7 but seen as Newlands Cross upgrade is likely to be delayed for a while :mad:, could a free flow left turn lane be put in to allow Belgard rd to N7 west traffic to move easier. A tempory lane through part of the site with the gas pipe works would allow the N7 west bound traffic on belgard rd to merge onto the main line. Although its terrible that the full upgrade isnt going on now, this tempory lane would be a help for the time being. ( it might help me anyway

)

Gruffalo · 09-06-2009 1:18am

This is slightly off topic but there didn't seem to be an appropriate thread on which to ask it.

The M7 will automatically cut travel times to Kerry as you will be able to get to Limerick a lot quicker. I was just wondering, when the M7 and M20 are open, will that be the new route for the majority of people in Kerry i.e. M7 - M20 - N72, into Killarney and on from there?

Also would N72, M20 then be the quickest way to Cork. It is just that I was looking at the Motorway layout the other day and it dawned on me that Kerry is the only county, from the Midlands down which does not get any motorway but it looks like it will still benefit from the schemes.

mysterious · 09-06-2009 2:56pm

Gruffalo wrote: »

This is slightly off topic but there didn't seem to be an appropriate thread on which to ask it.

The M7 will automatically cut travel times to Kerry as you will be able to get to Limerick a lot quicker. I was just wondering, when the M7 and M20 are open, will that be the new route for the majority of people in Kerry i.e. M7 - M20 - N72, into Killarney and on from there?

Also would N72, M20 then be the quickest way to Cork. It is just that I was looking at the Motorway layout the other day and it dawned on me that Kerry is the only county, from the Midlands down which does not get any motorway but it looks like it will still benefit from the schemes.

Well once the M20 and Adare bypasses it would seem that the M7 will attract the most traffic of any motorway. The N72 traffic would probably use the M20 and M8.

I just hope they start upgrading the N21 2+2 at least to NWC...

Berty · 09-06-2009 3:37pm

mysterious wrote: »

I just hope they start upgrading the N21 2+2 at least to NWC...

With the amount of traffic using this road I would imagine this is not an option. I use this road frequently and other than getting stuck behind the odd slow driver the road is wide and has long straight and safe stretchs to overtake.

I would imagine a dual carraigeway or even 2+1/1+2 roadway would not be on the cards for many years.

Tech3 · 10-06-2009 4:32pm

Scruff wrote: »

quick question: what are the estimated dates that the new stages of the motorway are to be opened?

Nenagh-Limerick Q4 2009
Nenagh-Castletown Q4 2010 or Q1 2011
Furet predicted the M7/M8 scheme will be finished by Q3 2010

mysterious · 13-07-2009 8:19pm

People are saying the Portlaoise to M7/8 is picking up. I think its way behind. Some sections of the Castletown scheme is only about 2 months behind it.

The bridges at From Moneygall are over 90% complete.

Alot of the bridges on the M7/8 are not even open yet. The Borris in ossary link is opened now because the Castletown scheme will finish before the M7/M8 toll.

If you look at the NRA site.
Castletown - Nenagh will open Q3 2010
Portlaoise M7/M7 will open last quarter 2010. I believe this is the case as it all neeed to be fully finished before the tollbridge is operational.

grenache · 14-07-2009 12:08am

Going off track here, but in a somewhat related story, i listen to radio every day during work and i keep hearing the ad for Kildare Village shopping outlet - the ad with the "Where can you go to on the M7? Dublin, Cork, Belfast, Galway!". Nice to see they remembered Limerick especially given that the M7 is the main Dublin-Limerick route :rolleyes:

Berty · 14-07-2009 6:26am

grenache wrote: »

Going off track here, but in a somewhat related story, i listen to radio every day during work and i keep hearing the ad for Kildare Village shopping outlet - the ad with the "Where can you go to on the M7? Dublin, Cork, Belfast, Galway!". Nice to see they remembered Limerick especially given that the M7 is the main Dublin-Limerick route :rolleyes:

Aha but to be fair to the idiots who came up with the ad their website says "Kildare outlet Village, just outside Dublin". Hardly just outside. Im heading that way in a few minutes(yes..................posted at 6:25am) and trust me the long drive across the counties of Kildare and Co Dublin do not make you believe it is "just outside Dublin".

I e-mailed them about this before and believe it or not they replied defending their situation. They own many internatioanal outlets like the one by Euro Disney(example) which says "Paris". They say "rather like Paris which is not in Paris, Kildare is not in Dublin but for our tourists we feel they will better associate the location with Dublin or Paris"

I argued that at least the one in Paris is actually in..........ummmmmm.........well..........co Paris which is Ile De France. Dublin is NOT!

Anyway, my other gripe about the N7/M7 in Dublin eyes is the fact I got lost coming out of Dublin all those years ago. I know Limerick is in the Mid West/West but in Dublin they have it signposted "THE SOUTH" so I kept on heading out the N6 which says "THE WEST".

Chris_533976 · 14-07-2009 5:49pm

grenache wrote: »

Going off track here, but in a somewhat related story, i listen to radio every day during work and i keep hearing the ad for Kildare Village shopping outlet - the ad with the "Where can you go to on the M7? Dublin, Cork, Belfast, Galway!". Nice to see they remembered Limerick especially given that the M7 is the main Dublin-Limerick route :rolleyes:

No, the M7 is the way to get OUT of Limerick FASTER

Edit: THATS IT. Thats why they are removing access from N20 northbound to childers road. They want people to go either left (to Galway) or right (to Dublin) so they wont have to go in to Limerick.

The gradual de-urbanisation of Limerick has begun!

grenache · 14-07-2009 7:19pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Edit: THATS IT. Thats why they are removing access from N20 northbound to childers road. They want people to go either left (to Galway) or right (to Dublin) so they wont have to go in to Limerick.

Childers Road - ghastly busy road with decrepid surroundings. But that exit (John Carew Link Road) from the N20 to Childers Rd is how i go to work. When they close this off they'll be adding ten mins onto my journey. Other parts of the city which will be accessible from the Northern part of the ring road such as Dooradoyle and Caherdavin are middle class areas and 'more visitor friendly'.

ardmacha · 15-07-2009 12:26pm

Oh now this is good news indeed, but again i can't understand why the neanderthals didn't make it dual carriageway in the first place. The people building our roads seem to be awful short-sighted.

The fact that it was possible to dual the Nenagh bypass suggests that without replacing the overbridges suggests that planning was not entirely short sighted. The original plans provided for a motorway to Portlaoise and on the approaches to Cork, Limerick, Galway etc. Many sections of road being built as motorways do not have the traffic volumes to justify it and only unprecedented economic growth meant that motorways were built on these routes.

mysterious · 15-07-2009 12:48pm

ardmacha wrote: »

The fact that it was possible to dual the Nenagh bypass suggests that without replacing the overbridges suggests that planning was not entirely short sighted. The original plans provided for a motorway to Portlaoise and on the approaches to Cork, Limerick, Galway etc. Many sections of road being built as motorways do not have the traffic volumes to justify it and only unprecedented economic growth meant that motorways were built on these routes.

No the bridges are not wide enough for motroway.

They were told to build it as a motorway. They didn't bother. It was shtort slightness. The 3 of the bridges are not wide enough at all..

KevR · 15-07-2009 12:57pm

ardmacha wrote: »

The fact that it was possible to dual the Nenagh bypass suggests that without replacing the overbridges suggests that planning was not entirely short sighted. The original plans provided for a motorway to Portlaoise and on the approaches to Cork, Limerick, Galway etc. Many sections of road being built as motorways do not have the traffic volumes to justify it and only unprecedented economic growth meant that motorways were built on these routes.

I read something before that the reason the government went for HQDC/motorways was because their aim was to have traffic on the inter-urbans doing an average speed of at least 92kmh. They worked it out that it would be damaging for the economy for people to move at less than this speed between the main urban areas. With motorways this target is not only reached, but exceeded considerably.

The old N roads weren't inadequate because they were heavily congested, they were deemed to be inadequate by the government because a small handful of slow vehicles would bring the average speed of everyone way down. For example, I drive from Galway to Athlone daily - my average speed is usually 80-85kmh. Some days it can be a bit better but some days it can be a lot worse; it's quite hard to predict (with a motorway, journey times are a lot more reliable).

ardmacha · 15-07-2009 7:50pm

I read something before that the reason the government went for HQDC/motorways was because their aim was to have traffic on the inter-urbans doing an average speed of at least 92kmh

It was, but the luxury of building motorways on not very busy roads was something that could only be contemplated in the midst of a boom. The N7 after Portlaoise is not one of the 3 busiest roads in the State, never mind the country. It is about the same as the N3 at Cavan, the N18 or even the N9. It less busy than the N8, the N4 at Mullingar, the N11, the N6 at Athlone. While the N7 picks up a significant amount of traffic at Nenagh, a lot of this does not use the bypass.

Zoney · 15-07-2009 8:31pm

ardmacha:

Don't forget it is about more than the volume of traffic on the road - it is about the road's importance, shortening travel time to Dublin, and allowing it to be safely shorter (i.e. so HQDC/motorway rather than basic DC).

Also one has to consider how traffic will grow with the increase in traffic that the "valid" parts of the motorway network bring. Just look at Mountrath on the N7 - that did not used to be a jam even after the Portlaoise Bypass was built. It's only in recent years with the increased traffic that the improved route east of Portlaoise has brought.

The N9 for example seems preposterous for motorway south of Kilkenny (north of that is about the maximum for 2+1, so motorway isn't really too extravagent even if in theory 2+2 would do). However, consider that traffic south of Kilkenny will jump and continue to grow once the route improves north of Kilkenny. Also in the case of the N9, the existing road is so appallingly bad as to actually inhibit traffic and commerce.

It really is not as simple as looking at traffic volumes as they are (or were) on the old routes.

mysterious · 15-07-2009 8:39pm

ardmacha wrote: »

It was, but the luxury of building motorways on not very busy roads was something that could only be contemplated in the midst of a boom. The N7 after Portlaoise is not one of the 3 busiest roads in the State, never mind the country. It is about the same as the N3 at Cavan, the N18 or even the N9. It less busy than the N8, the N4 at Mullingar, the N11, the N6 at Athlone. While the N7 picks up a significant amount of traffic at Nenagh, a lot of this does not use the bypass.

Your wrong Portlaiose to Mountrath

Is one of the busiest roads in the state.
16,500 vehicles a day west of Portlaoise.

Pre 80s it was on of the few roads outside of Dublin that had traffic over 5,000 at the time.

The bypass carries 10,000.
The road between Limerick and Nenagh is 18.000. (sources from the N.tipp traffic counter survey recently)

grenache · 15-07-2009 11:54pm

ardmacha wrote: »

The N7 after Portlaoise is not one of the 3 busiest roads in the State, never mind the country.

I would find that hard to believe, do you have stats to back that up?

ardmacha · 16-07-2009 2:02am

I would find that hard to believe, do you have stats to back that up?

see here

taking locations some distance from Dublin. e.g N9 after leavng M7, M1 after N33 etc. Some examples, mostly Feb 09.

N6 Athlone 28951
N18 Hurlers Cross 25150
M1 Dundalk bypass 20328
N4 Mullingar 19882
N11 Jack Whites 18199
N20 Rathduff 16048
N8 South of Portlaoise 15905
N9 Leighlinbridge 15776
N17 Tuam Road 15029
N21 Adare 14947
N7 West of Portlaoise 14287
N3 Kells 14144

mysterious · 16-07-2009 4:07am

ardmacha wrote: »

see here

taking locations some distance from Dublin. e.g N9 after leavng M7, M1 after N33 etc. Some examples, mostly Feb 09.

N6 Athlone 28951
N18 Hurlers Cross 25150
M1 Dundalk bypass 20328
N4 Mullingar 19882
N11 Jack Whites 18199
N7 west of Portlaise FOR THE WHOLE OF 2008 AADT estimate: 16327
N20 Rathduff 16048
N8 South of Portlaoise 15905
N9 Leighlinbridge 15776
N17 Tuam Road 15029
N21 Adare 14947
N3 Kells 14144

The figures were not counted right

That is an error.:)
For the last year it was over 16,000.
I use the road once a week I should know. The traffic counts are not accurate for this year.

There just corrected your false notions.

M7 Motorway (general thread)

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