Suicide- Should it be discussed openly.

niceirishfella · 15-09-2009 7:21pm

Justin Tight Pepperoni wrote: »

Sucide can be very rational. Just not to anybody on the outside. Saying it is irrational is not right.

+1 , sometimes people just have to go and I guess its their right and decision regardless of the hurt and pain they cause.

irishconvert · 15-09-2009 7:30pm

Daroxtar wrote: »

How am I full of ****? Thats the kind of crap that deranged clerics use to brainwash people into becoming "Martyrs". Its the clerics who are full of ****, I'm merely commenting on it.

Which clerics are you talking about? Can you give me some examples?

Daroxtar wrote: »

The fact that something is a "Sin" is hardly a deterrent as acoording to the books you follow God/Allah/Bogeyman forgives all sins. The fact that something is absolutely wrong and against nature and likely to cause hurt and harm to innoccent people is far more of a reason not to do it.

The reason it is forbidden is for the very reason you say, i.e. it is absolutely wrong and against nature and likely to cause hurt and harm to innoccent people. You might be smart enough to realise this but there are many people in this world who need guidance and rules to keep them on track.

Daroxtar wrote: »

Of course its rubbish about virgins waiting in heaven. Its also rubbish that all infidels deserve to die. That doesnt stop idiots believing it or madmen preaching it.

Who preaches that "all infidels deserve to die"?

Reflector · 15-09-2009 7:47pm

It is so imortant that people openly discuss suicide. It is important to find out why.
Everyone just hushs up about it as if nothing happened. Now I wouldn't disrespect someones memory but if they weren't happy and they went to such an extreme measure it is important so that people feel that it is not a solution and that they can talk about anything.#
Noone knows what was going on in Darren Sutherlands head but everyone saying on TV "he was such a happy fella" is the wrong message. It's a terrible loss and a sad day for Irish sport,

Wibbs · 15-09-2009 8:11pm

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I think there is still a LOT of covering up. I heard a woman from a suicide awareness group on the radio a month ago who said that there are counties in Ireland where the coroner did not return a single verdict of suicide for the whole of last year. Which is very hard to believe.

+10000 I've known 4 men who commited suicide and only 2 were officially reported as that. I think the figures are much higher. If you add in those who are deeply depressed and do suicide by installments through seriously reckless behaviour that figure would go through the roof.

Splendour · 15-09-2009 8:22pm

Daroxtar wrote: »

Maybe if people were fully convinced that there was no God and no afterlife they wouldn't be as ready to kill themselves.

The opposite in fact is nearer the truth, for Christians anyway; they believe that only God gives life and only God can take it away.

Interesting thread this which will obviously bring up different feelings and thoughts.
IMO, suicide should be discussed openly but I think more importantly, depression and stress which can lead to suicide must first become untaboo.

Snyper posted this earlier:

With a few brief comments over and back i had with the chap onlne i found the guy to be rather humble. I really really have a sickening feeling inside me over this one, because i was paying partivular attention to his boxing carrear, and i was certain that it was only a matter of time before he was a world champion.

Obviously snyper didn't know this guy that well so I imagine any depression he may have been feeling would never have come out in their online discussion and snyper you should in no way feel bad about this.

However there are many times where friends (mostly guys), will go out for a few pints & discuss the weather ,sports, jobs, in fact anything but what's really going on. There was an advert run on TV recently along this train of thought-can't remember what station. I think ads like that one need to be constantly thrown at us till eventually people realise it's perfectly normal and ok to talk openly about stress etc...As we all know ADVERTISING WORKS.

Splendour · 15-09-2009 8:33pm

Novella wrote: »

I can't believe there are more deaths in this country every year due to suicide than there are on our roads. If you watch tv, there are so many "Slow down, boys!", "Speed kills", etc ad's but there is never really a word spoken about suicide.

I imagine the reasoning for this is that the person taking their own life choose to kill themselves, wheras people speeding while driving may kill others as well.

The Big Red Button · 15-09-2009 8:54pm

Jesus, just saw this on Sky, an eight year old girl was found hanged in her room. It doesn't explicitly state that it was suicide, but it's implied. Link.

The reason I'm mentioning it here is because at least the school seems to be taking a positive approach towards dealing with it -

Judi O'Leary, the headteacher of Birklands Primary School, said one-to-one support was being offered for any child who felt concerned.

"We have said prayers for Charlotte at our school assembly and we are encouraging children to talk about Charlotte and their feelings at hearing the tragic news," she said.

At least they're allowing them to discuss what happened rather than covering it up, as rumours would be bound to be going round anyways. I can't help but wonder how an Irish school would deal with a similar situation.

The thought of an eight year old child doing such a thing though ... it's scary

irish_bob · 15-09-2009 9:05pm

Snakeblood wrote: »

I don't think it's a brave or a cowardly thing, it depends on why people do it. You get kids who don't understand the concept of mortality doing it, you get people who don't see any way out of their situation, and you get people who want to do it to show that they have power over themselves at the last.

i see it as a noble act , if more people committed suicide , the world would be a better place , anti social criminals are most likely people who at some point in thier lives , decided to turn their anger outwards on society , had they instead decided to turn thier anger inwards and end it , society would be the better for it , also , some people perfer not to be victims , some people are too proud to just become another boring patient in therapy or drugged out of thier head on prozac , they deal with it on their own terms , good on them , weak people never commit suicide , only strong people

Handsome Bob · 15-09-2009 9:05pm

Daroxtar wrote: »

Maybe if people were fully convinced that there was no God and no afterlife they wouldn't be as ready to kill themselves. It's possible that a lot of people think that if they commit suicide then what comes next will be better but if nothing comes next then their death is final in a way that only death can be and suicide has only ended their life,not given them a new pain free one. Would there be as many suicide bombers if there was no promise of a horde of virgins and the glories of heaven?

I'm pretty sure that religion acts as a deterrant for suicide, Christianity at the least states that hell awaits those who commit the act. I've seen churches refuse to hold funerals and refuse to allow burial on church grounds, all because the person involved committed suicide.

Justin Tight Pepperoni wrote: »

Sucide can be very rational. Just not to anybody on the outside. Saying it is irrational is not right.

I can say it is irrational. Young lads killing themselves while they have a young child and a loving girlfriend is not rational. I am "right" in saying that.

Of course suicide should be discussed in the open, it shouldn't even be up for debate. However the reality is that for a lot of people that no amount of awareness will make them want to look their father, their brother, or their best mate in the eye and say "I'm suicidal, I want to die." The stigma and the shame I imagine is unbearable as you must feel like a failure as a human being and as a man. All because suicide is associated with weakness. It breaks my heart, it really does.

irish_bob · 15-09-2009 9:07pm

Daroxtar wrote: »

Irish bob, I cant see any bravery in it, only despair and insanity. Bravery to me and to most would mean digging deeper and soldiering on. And i dont mean Insanity in a flippant way, i mean insanity in a crushing, all-encompassing, unable to think beyond a certain point kind of way.

And while the fear of god may be seen as a deterrent, surely the prospect of absolute nothingness would be a bigger one?

if thats the case then surely we all face absolute nothingness , its only a matter of waiting long enough , as for soldiering on , any prozac induced patient can do that , anyone can survive so long as they have enough food , living is a different thing , some people perfer not to continue on as a failure

Mr. Incognito · 15-09-2009 9:10pm

i see it as a noble act , if more people committed suicide , the world would be a better place , anti social criminals are most likely people who at some point in thier lives , decided to turn their anger outwards on society , had they instead decided to turn thier anger inwards and end it , society would be the better for it , also , some people perfer not to be victims , some people are too proud to just become another boring patient in therapy or drugged out of thier head on prozac , they deal with it on their own terms , good on them , weak people never commit suicide , only strong people

Irish Bob- your views disturb me. Truly. You seem to lack empathy. As an exercise try replacing "people" with "my mother".

AckwelFoley · 15-09-2009 9:11pm

Justin Tight Pepperoni wrote: »

Sucide can be very rational. Just not to anybody on the outside. Saying it is irrational is not right.

While i can see credance in what you are saying i would suggest it more to be a case of a rational decision based on an irrational state of mind.

Granted not all people that commit sucide are sufferers of depression, however, from my experience, you dont get these thoughts of sucide when you are not depressed, and as depression doesnt change your circumstances - merely your perception and outlook, you are not in the position to see that the glass is half full.

irish_bob · 15-09-2009 9:18pm

Hazys wrote: »

I honestly believe that the Government knows how bad the situation is and they sweep it under the rug and ignore the problem just so they dont have to deal with another crisis.

Its a lot cheaper for the government to highlight the road deaths and put a few ads up on the TV about drink driving and a few more Gardai on the roads and ignore the issue of suicide because its not 'PC' to talk about it. I think they know the costs and complexities of setting up proper mental care services and counselling are very expensive (what we have at the moment is a joke) and it would just add to the farce that is health care in this country.

It sickens me that they dont try to save these people because they will open a can of worms that will affect their pityful careers.

what could the goverment possibly do , how can the state do anything about something that is so personal , why cant you accept that some people just dont want to live anymore , not everyone who is happy wants the indignity of crying to some shrink who puts on a serious face and charges 100 quid an hour

newmills · 15-09-2009 9:23pm

irish_bob wrote: »

i see it as a noble act , if more people committed suicide , the world would be a better place , anti social criminals are most likely people who at some point in thier lives , decided to turn their anger outwards on society , had they instead decided to turn thier anger inwards and end it , society would be the better for it , also , some people perfer not to be victims , some people are too proud to just become another boring patient in therapy or drugged out of thier head on prozac , they deal with it on their own terms , good on them , weak people never commit suicide , only strong people

Try telling that to my aunt and uncle who lost their 38 year old son (father of 2 small children) last year to suicide.
A woman who now will barely leave the house because she is so stricken by grief.
A 63 year old man who can't drive past the local church without starting to cry when he sees his son's gravestone facing the road.

irish_bob · 15-09-2009 9:25pm

marcsignal wrote: »

A guy I used to drink with up until last christmas has serious depression issues. From time to time he would get on a real downer and drink himself into a stupor and start going on about how shit his life was etc etc. When he wasn't doing this he was getting pissed up and starting arguements with others in the group.

I became seriously worried about him and tried to quietly give his mates (the lads who knew him a lot longer than I did) a 'heads up' about him, and unfortunately, on finding out, he took serious offence to this and had a go at me for interfering in his business.

I've now washed my hands of him, and it's sad, but I know he will top himself sooner or later, if he doesn't get help. There's often only so much you can do for some people. You cant drag them to a shrink by the hair if they don't want to go themselves.

Much and all as we fell out, he still has my number, and I hope, even at the 11th hour, he'll have the balls to call me, or someone else, at whatever time of the night/morning, rather than stick his head in a gas oven.

that guy sounds like a whinger , trust me , he wont kill himself , people who kill themselves are usually very private and not blabber mouths with little shame

Corkfeen · 15-09-2009 9:26pm

If people were more open in the first place, suicide would be far less of a problem. It should be openly discussed, we discuss so much ****e as it is, why not discuss a serious problem and save a few lives.

irish_bob · 15-09-2009 9:29pm

chatterpillar wrote: »

Jesus, just saw this on Sky, an eight year old girl was found hanged in her room. It doesn't explicitly state that it was suicide, but it's implied. Link.

The reason I'm mentioning it here is because at least the school seems to be taking a positive approach towards dealing with it -

At least they're allowing them to discuss what happened rather than covering it up, as rumours would be bound to be going round anyways. I can't help but wonder how an Irish school would deal with a similar situation.

The thought of an eight year old child doing such a thing though ... it's scary

i read about that story last night , it was not suicide but a freak accident

AckwelFoley · 15-09-2009 9:29pm

irish_bob wrote: »

that guy sounds like a whinger , trust me , he wont kill himself , people who kill themselves are usually very private and not blabber mouths with little shame

incorrect, as is most of your assemsment im afraid.

Its commonly known that most sucide victims do profess their intentions at, at least one point prior to their action of actually doing it

cjbh · 15-09-2009 9:31pm

wantacookie wrote: »

i am curious as to why the media feel the need to always cover it up, i heard on the news today that a man was found dead in his appartmant alone but they 'aren't treatin it as suspcious'.
i took this to mean one of two things suicide or natural causes, but i doubt the media would have any reservations against sayin natural causes.

the stigma around suuicide effects people contemplating it but also the families who have been affected by it, they feel that there is no one to talk to and that they are looked down upon by the community!

another question i wonder is wat age is too young to broach the subject with children? especially if it has occured in the family. is it better to cover up wat has happen to protect them?

this is a really interestin thread

Isn't there a copycat issue though, especially in high profile cases like this...that could be why it's being 'hushed up'.

In any case, I don't think it's being swept under the carpet, the media is just not focusing on the means of death right now out of respect. They are trying to focus on the individual and his life.

You can be sure suicide will be all over the media in the next few days. Joe Duffy, probably the Late Late, etc.

irish_bob · 15-09-2009 9:31pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Irish Bob- your views disturb me. Truly. You seem to lack empathy. As an exercise try replacing "people" with "my mother".

my views are very unconventional , i accept that but they are my own and i have experience in this area

irish_bob · 15-09-2009 9:33pm

newmills wrote: »

Try telling that to my aunt and uncle who lost their 38 year old son (father of 2 small children) last year to suicide.
A woman who now will barely leave the house because she is so stricken by grief.
A 63 year old man who can't drive past the local church without starting to cry when he sees his son's gravestone facing the road.

no need to bring personal details of family into it , this is an annonymous forum , all sorts of views , conventional and unconventional are expressed

irish_bob · 15-09-2009 9:35pm

snyper wrote: »

incorrect, as is most of your assemsment im afraid.

Its commonly known that most sucide victims do profess their intentions at, at least one point prior to their action of actually doing it

your opinion to the former and i disagree with the latter

Persiancowboy · 15-09-2009 9:37pm

irish_bob wrote: »

i see it as a noble act , if more people committed suicide , the world would be a better place , anti social criminals are most likely people who at some point in thier lives , decided to turn their anger outwards on society , had they instead decided to turn thier anger inwards and end it , society would be the better for it , also , some people perfer not to be victims , some people are too proud to just become another boring patient in therapy or drugged out of thier head on prozac , they deal with it on their own terms , good on them , weak people never commit suicide , only strong people

I have seen and read some absolute ****e on various forums in the past, but this "contribution" marks a new low.

On the same day that my father died suddenly (not by suicide) one of my best childhood friends, married with 3 children, killed himself by drowning. In the mortuary, in ajoining rooms, lay my father and my friend. While my father's death and funeral was difficult, the memories of my friend's removal and burial will stay with me forever. He lay peacefully in his coffin while all around him in the funeral parlour were scenes of utter devastation and incomprehension.

I challenge anyone to witness that and then write garbage like that quoted above.

Suicide is endemic in this country and we need to confront this reality instead of pretending we do not have a problem. I have just heard the 9 O Clock news on RTE and they are still talking about the "tragic circumstances" of Darren's death - the world and his wife are aware of these but RTE still won't mention the S word.

AckwelFoley · 15-09-2009 9:37pm

irish_bob wrote: »

your opinion to the former and i disagree with the latter

The earth is round bob. Disagree if you will. It wont alter the fact.

newmills · 15-09-2009 9:45pm

irish_bob wrote: »

no need to bring personal details of family into it , this is an annonymous forum , all sorts of views , conventional and unconventional are expressed

Yeah i know it's an anonymous forum.....do you know me, my uncle or my aunt?
Point being that the world is not a better place because it takes a "brave" person to take their life.:rolleyes:

Euro_Kraut · 15-09-2009 9:46pm

irish_bob wrote: »

i see it as a noble act , if more people committed suicide , the world would be a better place , anti social criminals are most likely people who at some point in thier lives , decided to turn their anger outwards on society , had they instead decided to turn thier anger inwards and end it , society would be the better for it , also , some people perfer not to be victims , some people are too proud to just become another boring patient in therapy or drugged out of thier head on prozac , they deal with it on their own terms , good on them , weak people never commit suicide , only strong people

You have very very odd views on this issue. I hope nobody might read this and pay heed to you.

People in therapy have not chosen to be 'victims'. To me they are heroes.

amacachi · 15-09-2009 9:51pm

Anyone else find some odd details in these statistics? http://www.ias.ie/docs/Deathsbysuicideper1000000population.xls

Look at 2003-2004 in Leitrim. Was there a switch in the coroner?

The statistics for Louth don't ring true at all either.
Just out of interest I know of one case of suicide being ruled "death by misadventure", does that go into the suicide statistics or not?

My name is URL · 15-09-2009 9:59pm

amacachi wrote: »

Just out of interest I know of one case of suicide being ruled "death by misadventure", does that go into the suicide statistics or not?

afaik it doesn't. Suicide is a very specific category.

There has to be solid evidence that the person intended to kill themselves so that no other inquests need to be made.

Splendour · 15-09-2009 9:59pm

irish_bob, can you honestly say you think the world is a better place now to newmill's Aunt and Uncle and to the children of this man who took his own life?
Do you not think if he could have talked to someone about the way he was feeling and sorted it out then the world would be a better place for his family?

Sharpshooter · 15-09-2009 10:04pm

irish_bob wrote: »

i see it as a noble act , if more people committed suicide , the world would be a better place , anti social criminals are most likely people who at some point in thier lives , decided to turn their anger outwards on society , had they instead decided to turn thier anger inwards and end it , society would be the better for it , also , some people perfer not to be victims , some people are too proud to just become another boring patient in therapy or drugged out of thier head on prozac , they deal with it on their own terms , good on them , weak people never commit suicide , only strong people

irish_bob wrote: »

if thats the case then surely we all face absolute nothingness , its only a matter of waiting long enough , as for soldiering on , any prozac induced patient can do that , anyone can survive so long as they have enough food , living is a different thing , some people perfer not to continue on as a failure

irish_bob wrote: »

what could the goverment possibly do , how can the state do anything about something that is so personal , why cant you accept that some people just dont want to live anymore , not everyone who is happy wants the indignity of crying to some shrink who puts on a serious face and charges 100 quid an hour

irish_bob wrote: »

that guy sounds like a whinger , trust me , he wont kill himself , people who kill themselves are usually very private and not blabber mouths with little shame

irish_bob wrote: »

my views are very unconventional , i accept that but they are my own and i have experience in this area

irish_bob while you are entitled to your opinion you are not entitled to use it to troll this thread.

In my opinion some of your views should not be seen by people that might be of a fragile state of mind.

If you post again in this thread it will result in a ban.

Suicide- Should it be discussed openly.

Comments