Intel & Ryanair Yes Campaigns - An Open Question.

Scofflaw · 24-09-2009 2:51am

imeddyhobbs wrote: »

search is down due to maintenance

You don't need search to read the first two pages of the forum you're about to post on.

moderately,
Scofflaw

imeddyhobbs · 24-09-2009 2:55am

I searched thru a few pages,i didnt see anything about intel,the search function was disabled,i'm sorry

gar32 · 24-09-2009 4:28pm

I have a few points.

Intel and Ryanair are businesses with the main and most important drive. Too make money. That said they must both feel that Lisbon will help them do this. When did an economy become more important then peoples welfare. (Yes I know its needed to provide but 1st things 1st) Lisbon will be great for business (Big business) but for the small people like you and me we will be like the poor in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

I for one like the way Europe in the past has looked after the people better then in the USA. I don’t want a US of Europe .

Please Vote NO!!!!

Dinner · 24-09-2009 4:32pm

gar32 wrote: »

Intel and Ryanair are businesses with the main and most important drive. Too make money. That said they must both feel that Lisbon will help them do this. When did an economy become more important then peoples welfare. (Yes I know its needed to provide but 1st things 1st) Lisbon will be great for business (Big business) but for the small people like you and me we will be like the poor in the USA.

Which particular parts of the treaty will make 'the small people like you and me' poor?

Scofflaw · 24-09-2009 4:34pm

gar32 wrote: »

I have a few points.

Intel and Ryanair are businesses with the main and most important drive. Too make money. That said they must both feel that Lisbon will help them do this. When did an economy become more important then peoples welfare. (Yes I know its needed to provide but 1st things 1st) Lisbon will be great for business (Big business) but for the small people like you and me we will be like the poor in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

I for one like the way Europe in the past has looked after the people better then in the USA. I don’t want a US of Europe .

Please Vote NO!!!!

The EU continues to balance the need for business freedom to allow job creation with the protection of worker's rights - Lisbon doesn't take it suddenly over to one side of that balance. Is it just the fact that businesses are supporting it that makes you think it's suddenly changing? In the latter case, have you factored in that the majority of the unions are also supporting it? Alternatively, what do you feel - in the Treaty - tips that balance over?

cordially,
Scofflaw

gar32 · 24-09-2009 5:15pm

Lisbon is the start of the end. It will take power to the centre of Europe and if you look at history big Empires have the starts, highs and ends. Everything about this scream’s to me NO NO NO.. 1st Lisbon is not in easy understandable form. Why are the reasons not spelled out to us?? Vote yes for Europe. Vote yes for Jobs. I got my voting car and it explains you have to go to the post office to get a copy of the amendments. Why is this not posted to everyone ? 7 A3 pages could be posted to us months in advance so we can talk about it at length. I have being thinking a lot. Reading watch videos etc etc. We voted NO they say are you sure? Lisbon is fussy and unclear at its best which means who ever has power will us it what ever way they want.

Clear understandable democracy is what I want not Lisbon. We have the technology to let people vote everyday on things that are important. The few people are making choices the many.

Lisbon No there has to be a better way!!!!

Dinner · 24-09-2009 5:25pm

gar32 wrote: »

Lisbon is the start of the end. It will take power to the centre of Europe and if you look at history big Empires have the starts, highs and ends. Everything about this scream’s to me NO NO NO.. 1st Lisbon is not in easy understandable form. Why are the reasons not spelled out to us?? Vote yes for Europe. Vote yes for Jobs. I got my voting car and it explains you have to go to the post office to get a copy of the amendments. Why is this not posted to everyone ? 7 A3 pages could be posted to us months in advance so we can talk about it at length. I have being thinking a lot. Reading watch videos etc etc. We voted NO they say are you sure? Lisbon is fussy and unclear at its best which means who ever has power will us it what ever way they want.

Clear understandable democracy is what I want not Lisbon. We have the technology to let people vote everyday on things that are important. The few people are making choices the many.

Lisbon No there has to be a better way!!!!

So... you don't have any specific articles that will make the 'small people like you and me' poor?

gar32 · 24-09-2009 5:47pm

Do you have one that will make us rich?

gar32 · 24-09-2009 5:51pm

These things are not wrote to be understood by the likes of you and me. The people writing them have years of legal studies and european law. The fact it is not understandable and simple make normal people uninterested. Thats why even people in power did not read it. Do you remember ? What will they deliver to us if it is a yes

Dinner · 24-09-2009 5:52pm

gar32 wrote: »

Do you have one that will make us rich?

I didn't claim it would make us rich. You claimed that it will make us poor.

Do you have those articles yet?

Dinner · 24-09-2009 5:53pm

gar32 wrote: »

This things are not wrote to be understood by the like of you and me. They people writing them have years of legal studies and european law. The fact it is not understandable and simple make normal people uninterested. Thats why even people in power did not read it. Do you remember ?

The people in power (I assume you are alluding to Cowen) helped write it.

And the treaty is compex because it is a complex international treaty drafted between 27 countries. It is an amendment treaty, not a constitutional document it is complicated because reform treaties are complicated.

gar32 · 24-09-2009 6:09pm

So Summarize the main points of this treathy that will make life so much better please

Dinner · 24-09-2009 6:11pm

gar32 wrote: »

So Summarize the main points of this treathy that will make life so much better please

Here ye go

http://lisbonexposed.org/article_by_article_v2.pdf

Do I take this to mean that you don't have anything to back up your claim that Lisbon will make us all poor?

That wasn't written by me by the way. It was written by Scofflaw.

gar32 · 24-09-2009 6:22pm

63 pages of legal clap trap is your summary? Thats like me telling you to read this

http://www.voteno.ie/resources/a_rebel%27s_guide_to_the_lisbon_treaty.pdf

Sam Vimes · 24-09-2009 6:26pm

gar32 wrote: »

63 pages of legal clap trap is your summary? Thats like me telling you to read this

http://www.voteno.ie/resources/a_rebel%27s_guide_to_the_lisbon_treaty.pdf

How do you suggest you summarise a 277 page legal dcument covering hundreds of areas for 27 nations?

Dinner · 24-09-2009 6:28pm

gar32 wrote: »

63 pages of legal clap trap is your summary? Thats like me telling you to read this

http://www.voteno.ie/resources/a_rebel%27s_guide_to_the_lisbon_treaty.pdf

It's a complex international treaty! Not everything can be broken down to a tasty slogan to be stuck on a lamp post.

To make things even easier you can go to lisbonexposed.org and search the treaty for any issues that you feel are important

Alternatively This is an entertaining read. Not exactly impartial though.

Scofflaw · 24-09-2009 6:32pm

gar32 wrote: »

63 pages of legal clap trap is your summary? Thats like me telling you to read this

http://www.voteno.ie/resources/a_rebel%27s_guide_to_the_lisbon_treaty.pdf

The original consolidated Treaty is about 500 pages, that summary is 50 (plus some explanations) - are you looking for the summary of the summary (5 pages) or the summary of the summary of the summary (1/2 page)?

And why do I suspect that if you were provided with such a very summary summary you'd dismiss it as "simplistic"?

amused,
Scofflaw

positivethinkin · 26-09-2009 1:20am

I am voting No after reading this tread and many more like it

OldJay · 26-09-2009 10:11am

gar32 wrote: »

63 pages of legal clap trap is your summary?

Thats the worrying thing about some of people who actually get off their buns and vote: refusing to actually read up on the issues.
How Irish . . .

gar32 · 27-09-2009 10:21am

So you have read the treathy in full please enlighten us JustinD.

ei.sdraob · 27-09-2009 10:25am

gar32 wrote: »

So you have read the treathy in full please enlighten us JustinD.

Ignorance is not an excuse for voting in either direction

the very basis of democracy is people making informed decisions

http://www.lisbontreaty2009.ie/

the above impartial site from REFCOM has very approachable summaries

one would have to be very closed minded not to be able to understand these

/

GerardKeating · 27-09-2009 10:31am

isocket wrote: »

I have just seen an intel pro-yes campaign poster & you are all aware of Ryanair's 500'000 Euro Yes campaign.
Regardless of whether you are a Yes or No vote to Lisbon.
Does corporate 'intervention' in the franchise of a nation lead to healthy democratic debate?

What's the difference between the Intel/RyanAir intervention on the yes side to the Declan Ganley financing Libertas for the no Vote last time around.

efb · 27-09-2009 10:34am

GerardKeating wrote: »

What's the difference between the Intel/RyanAir intervention on the yes side to the Declan Ganley financing Libertas for the no Vote last time around.

he was on the OP's side...

OldJay · 27-09-2009 10:41am

GerardKeating wrote: »

What's the difference between the Intel/RyanAir intervention on the yes side to the Declan Ganley financing Libertas for the no Vote last time around.

They're actually correct in what they say, self-serving or not. Ganley is wholly incorrect and is part of a movement that has attempted to 'prove' its case with lies on many areas.

ei.sdraob · 27-09-2009 10:44am

GerardKeating wrote: »

What's the difference between the Intel/RyanAir intervention on the yes side to the Declan Ganley financing Libertas for the no Vote last time around.

Ganley makes mucho money by selling military equipment to US military

and he hired the masterminds behind the Iraq war

Intel/Ryanair on other hand provide employment for thousands of people in this country and more importantly pay taxes here

Odilon Redon · 27-09-2009 10:46am

GerardKeating wrote: »

What's the difference between the Intel/RyanAir intervention on the yes side to the Declan Ganley financing Libertas for the no Vote last time around.

Libertas was getting donations to finance its campaign and had to (in a minimal way) account to SIPO for those donations under the law.

Intel and Ryanair are spending their own money on their campaigns.

The law doesn't impose any obligations on companies (or individuals for that matter) spending their own money for political purposes.

It should.

bubonicus · 27-09-2009 10:49am

Intel Ireland are a registered incorporated company in the Cayman Islands. Somethng I find interesting.

OldJay · 27-09-2009 10:52am

gar32 wrote: »

So you have read the treathy in full please enlighten us JustinD.

You have the same capabilities and access as I do in reading through it.

The difference between me and you is that I don't seem to switch off or turn a blind eye when I see a descript preceded by the word 'Guarantee' or go deaf when I'm told of a 'legally binding' explanation.

Maybe if they made the Treaty into a movie or a 'reality' TV show, more people might get off their hynies? Actually scrap the referendum.
We can have a show presented by Simon Cowell, some washed up singer and an alleged 'impresario' or failed critic.
Be warned. Don't fall for the plant in the lineup which is usually a dud put in just to keep you interested. This can be someone who raises a startle by putting up posters with "Minimum Wage €1.84" and ends it with a question mark. Or someone who plucks your emotional heartstrings with a lie about Pearse and the 1916 Rising leaders, abortion, other countries' unemployment or euthanasia. Or even a movement who has wafted about neutrality of Ireland and conscription while its most prominent proponent is a bloody Defence Contractor!

It can be called 'Ireland's Got Guarantees'. All you have to do then is dial in your vote and not waste time undertaking the usual kerfuffle like . . . reading through the flippin' thing. :rolleyes:

ei.sdraob · 27-09-2009 10:55am

bubonicus wrote: »

Intel Ireland are a registered incorporated company in the Cayman Islands. Somethng I find interesting.

[wheres your reference/proof?]

go to http://www.cro.ie/search/

and type in Intel

i cant believe the NO side would sink so low

And where is Declans Company registered?

How many people does Declan employ?

How many other industries are supported by Declans businesses?

How much taxes doe Declan pay here?

/

bubonicus · 27-09-2009 10:59am

ei.sdraob wrote: »

[wheres your reference/proof?]

go to http://www.cro.ie/search/

and type in Intel

i cant believe the NO side would sink so low

And where is Declans Company registered?

How many people does Declan employ?

How many other industries are supported by Declans businesses?

How much taxes doe Declan pay here?

/

http://www.epa.ie/licences/lic_eDMS/090151b280086aed.pdf

bottom of scan

and listed here

and I am voting YES. just for the record. And I have no idea about Declan Ganley.

Intel & Ryanair Yes Campaigns - An Open Question.

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