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I'm ignorant, where can I learn more?

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  • 23-01-2011 9:36am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭


    Go easy on me please!!

    So I'm going to confess... 28 years on the planet and I have NO clue about politics. Actually not one idea of what is going on, what party does what, etc.
    I find it really hard to read things in the paper about politics as I have no background info on what the article is about so I don't understand it. I have never voted because I have never given the time to find out who I want to vote for. Can anyone recommend somewhere to find out more about the political situation in Ireland at the mo? I would like an unbiased account of each party, and a brief description of the most important ministers (the ones that feature in the news).

    Now when I say I know nothing, I mean nothing so imagine you're teaching a child!

    Thanks in advance.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    ElleEm wrote: »
    Go easy on me please!!

    So I'm going to confess... 28 years on the planet and I have NO clue about politics. Actually not one idea of what is going on, what party does what, etc.
    I find it really hard to read things in the paper about politics as I have no background info on what the article is about so I don't understand it. I have never voted because I have never given the time to find out who I want to vote for. Can anyone recommend somewhere to find out more about the political situation in Ireland at the mo? I would like an unbiased account of each party, and a brief description of the most important ministers (the ones that feature in the news).

    Now when I say I know nothing, I mean nothing so imagine you're teaching a child!

    Thanks in advance.

    They say ignorance is bliss


  • Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭mystique150


    Break yourself in gently - shows like prime time and the front line are a good place to start. Over the next month, the opposition groups will be voicing how they are going to drag us out of the **** ! If you find it difficult to read the dribble in the papers - the shows may be easier.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    You should start with looking at and understanding what you want from your Government?

    What are the important issues for you? Is it job creation, education, social welfare health etc? Unfortunately you will need to read each of the parties policies and see which ones come closest to your own and form your choice based on that.

    I would not use synopsis from newspapers alone to make any decisions either as nearly every journalist does have a bias.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    First of all, try come to some sort of decision on what kind of society you want to live in. I suggest taking the Political Compass test, It will give you a rough idea of where you stand in terms of Left/Right. Then have a read of the various policies on the party's websites and see which one is closest to your beliefs.

    It's a good idea to keep informed by reading as many different news sources as possible so you don't get overloaded with one side of a story.

    Really it depends on how much you want to get into it. There is a wealth of information out there and fair play for wanting to know more, I wish there were more enthusiastic people like you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    The Political compass thing is neat enough, I got
    Economic Left/Right: -6.50
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.18

    Anyone care to explain?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭mystique150


    Very interesting quiz. I got something similar

    Economic Left/Right: -6.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.59

    Now in hot pursuit of a Gandhi type character in Irish politics!:) I voted Green/Labour before but lost all respect for the Greens since they entered the coalition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Economic Left/Right: -7.25
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15

    Left wing but essentially not a trot or a stalinist :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭scientific1982


    Economic Left/Right: -5.12
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.49

    To the left, to the left.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    Economic Left/Right: 0.12
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.77



    i dont strongly agree or disagree with most of the questions posed so i reckon this is why i ended up so slap bang in the middle


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,116 ✭✭✭starviewadams


    I'm just beside where Gandhi was,very surprising!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Dr. Baltar


    Economic Left/Right: 4.88
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.18

    Progressive Democrats man.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭Misty Chaos


    Economic Left/Right: -2.12
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.69

    That leaves me closest to the likes of Nelson Mandela, Gandhi and The Dalai Lama .

    I'm not sure what of this, though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭thebaldsoprano


    OP I'm finding forums like this to be very helpful in getting up to speed on what's going on and how politics works. It sure beats the press and RTE - stories and issues are taken apart by posters of all persuasions. I've also picked up some good book recommendations on different threads.

    It's interesting that all the scores so far have negative authoritarian scores, a positive one might indicate belief that the Government can get something right ;)
    pcgraphpng.php?ec=-0.50&soc=-4.62


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭RonMexico


    Your political compass

    Economic Left/Right: -5.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82


    Where do the Irish Political Parties fall?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    this might help ron

    http://www.politicalcompass.org/ireland

    id have put FF more to the left and sinn fein more north on the authoritarian side, labour should be on the west side too


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭RonMexico


    Hmmm the result that I got sure as hell doesn't fit with my stance when it comes to the parties here. :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    RonMexico wrote: »
    Hmmm the result that I got sure as hell doesn't fit with my stance when it comes to the parties here. :confused:

    let me guess , you ended up further to the left than you expected ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,714 ✭✭✭Balmed Out


    Economic Left/Right: -4.12
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.79

    dont think thats correct fot me to be honest. Im far more right then that on economics


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭ElleEm


    Wow, I've obviously been lurking in After Hours for too long! I expected to be ridiculed for not being in touch with politics. I'm honestly surprised at all the genuine help I've recieved, thanks.
    Now, I'm almost identical to Ghandi on the scale, I got 5.49 on Social Libertarian/ Authoritarian and 4.62 on Economic Left/ Right.
    Based on this, what parties should I look into?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    ElleEm wrote: »
    Wow, I've obviously been lurking in After Hours for too long! I expected to be ridiculed for not being in touch with politics. I'm honestly surprised at all the genuine help I've recieved, thanks.
    Now, I'm almost identical to Ghandi on the scale, I got 5.49 on Social Libertarian/ Authoritarian and 4.62 on Economic Left/ Right.
    Based on this, what parties should I look into?


    the well intentioned but doesnt really work out in real life party


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,714 ✭✭✭Balmed Out


    to the op

    First place to look at is your own beliefs.

    Do you believe society should contribute towards the less well off? In Ireland the answer doesnt actually matter as all parties would agree.

    Ill probably be slated but this would in a jist be my take on left / right wing and our parties

    A right wing party is mainly concerned with economic growth. A right wing party would prefer to keep taxes and government interference in business and society to a minimum in the belief that this will encourage people to work harder and earn more money. The aim would be a smaller percentage of a bigger total will not lower the overall take and the incentive of earning more money would lead to businesses etc growing higher employment etc.

    A left wing party is more concerned with social protection. A left wing party would prefer to tax higher earners as much as possible and provide as much protection for workers etc as possible.

    Sinn fein would be the furthest left in Ireland with labour and fianna fail being centre left. Fine gael would be centre right. The progressive democrats in their day would have been further to the right.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭ElleEm


    irishh_bob wrote: »
    the well intentioned but doesnt really work out in real life party

    Sounds about right!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,294 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    hmmm

    Economic Left/Right: -6.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.36


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭mgmt


    Economic Left/Right: 0.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.13

    pcgraphpng.php?ec=0.00&soc=-1.13


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    Balmed Out wrote: »
    to the op

    First place to look at is your own beliefs.

    Do you believe society should contribute towards the less well off? In Ireland the answer doesnt actually matter as all parties would agree.

    Ill probably be slated but this would in a jist be my take on left / right wing and our parties

    A right wing party is mainly concerned with economic growth. A right wing party would prefer to keep taxes and government interference in business and society to a minimum in the belief that this will encourage people to work harder and earn more money. The aim would be a smaller percentage of a bigger total will not lower the overall take and the incentive of earning more money would lead to businesses etc growing higher employment etc.

    A left wing party is more concerned with social protection. A left wing party would prefer to tax higher earners as much as possible and provide as much protection for workers etc as possible.

    Sinn fein would be the furthest left in Ireland with labour and fianna fail being centre left. Fine gael would be centre right. The progressive democrats in their day would have been further to the right.


    the PD,s were however liberal on social and moral issues where as both FF and FG are to the right ( with a small r ) on social issues

    the political landscape in ireland is very much focused in or around the centre , then again , irish people are by nature a very non idealogical centrist people


  • Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭not even wrong


    Balmed Out wrote: »
    Sinn fein would be the furthest left in Ireland with labour and fianna fail being centre left. Fine gael would be centre right. The progressive democrats in their day would have been further to the right.
    Fianna Fail are not centre left, this was the biggest lie Bertie ever told (and that's saying something). FF have one ideology, populism. Their increasing of welfare and pensions during the bubble years wasn't based on any notions about fairness or distributing the wealth equally, it was about buying votes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Maybe we (and by that I mean somebody else!) would be better off giving the OP a brief outline of each party, and an explanation of those ministers remaining in Cabinet? It's nice to see everyone's political scores and all, but not really what the OP is looking for. :p Also, what's the point in her narrowing down her political leanings and only focusing on those who work on the things she's interested in? Surely an explanation of each party, what they do, where they fall politically would be better, and based on this, she can look at what's important to her, and decide who's closest to her interests?

    I say "we" at the beginning, because I don't think I'd do a good enough job OP...hence I'll just attempt to get the ball rolling. My knowledge is limited,but there are plenty around here who know far more than me, and I'd definitely encourage them to add to my basic (and possibly incorrect!) statements!

    So.

    Fianna Fail - current majority ruling party. They were, until today, in a coalition with the Green Party. The Green Party were the minority - in that they only had 2 ministers, while FF candidates filled the rest of the seats. I think FF would be considered left-of-centre. Left wing parties would be considered to be those who are in favour of social change, a system of equality with the State taking care of it's citizens to an extent, with a thriving private sector aswell.Basically, similar-ish to what we have now, and what many European countries would have. Obviously, you have extreme left, which would be closer to Communism, where the State controls everything (I'm paraphrasing Wikipedia quite heavily here).Right wing parties are more...conservative I suppose.

    Fine Gael - the opposition.In other words, they did not get enough votes in the last election to put them into Gov. They are similar to FF, in that I think they would be left of centre...there are a few differences, but not many, as far as I can see.

    The Greens - a minority (and relatively new??) party. Their membership has been growing over the last few years, with Climate change etc. They got enough votes in the last election to be able to go into Coalition with FF....which was a surprise to many. Obviously their main concerns would be environmental. And green-based! They compromised somewhat on some of their main items in order to join FF in power, which lost them some support as it appeared they were selling out in order to gain power. However they are fairly small fish compared to FF and FG.

    Labour - my understanding of this party is very limited. My muddled view is that they are in support of trade unions and the "workers" of the country. I'm not exactly sure how you would describe their political leanings - can someone enlighten?? Either way, they are, I suppose, lower on the ladder than FG, but higher than the Greens. There's a strong possibility...depending on how voting goes, of course!...that they will form the next Gov with FG, as these 2 would be the biggest opposition parties.

    Sinn Fein - well. What can you say. A fairly left-wing party (though I'm not clear why). Their interest is Irish Republicanism and little else. Ireland should be a united country that governs it's own affairs with no other involvement from the EU or the UK as far as their thinking goes. (I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, simply stating the fact). They do not support the involvement of the IMF/EU, however their own policies (particularly economic) don't seem to be particularly well-formed or articulated...possibly because their main focus has been the North for so long. They have 1 (or 2???) members in the Dail, and recently one of their members won support in the Donegal by-election.

    Independents - these are individuals who run under no party banner in their own area. They rely on support in their local communities. I don't know if you've ever voted, but you get a list of all your local candidates, from every party, and the independents, and you number in order of preference, with 1 being the number you give the most support to. There are currently only 2 Independents in Gov - Jackie Healy Rae and Michael Lowry (am I right???). They can support or oppose the governing parties as they choose, when votes are taking place in the Dail to pass/block certain bills. Often they'll offer support in return for the Gov giving them something they want! There's a possibility that there will be a large number of Independents in the next Gov, along with FG and Labour, which should make things interesting.


    That is my basic and very brief understanding of things right now (also as a 28 yr old!!!).As it stands this evening, the Greens are pulling out of Gov with FF. Which should force an election, but that's another day's debate. My information is limited, and possibly inaccurate, so I'd definitely encourage everyone else to add/correct as necessary! In terms of finding out - lurking around here is a pretty good place to start. If all else fails, Wikipedia do some good explanations of the history behind how the parties formed etc. You should definitely consider voting though OP, it's our country at the end of the day. And informing yourself is a very good way to start!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭mystique150


    So if we take the average test result of the posters on this thread we are looking at a slightly left, libertarian majority, yet we don't have any major parties that are within this group. Does this say more about us as a people that we always opt to take the middle ground and never say, or in case vote how we really feel? I personally would view any far left socialist party with scepticism and would not be inclined to vote for one. This may be more an ignorant fear but I think a lot of people would share this fear, unfounded or otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Economic Left/Right: -5.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.87

    The problem with the test, of course, is that it's US-oriented, and also that it contains statements like "the freer the market, the freer the people" which I would agree with in principle, but disagree with as a principle.

    By the way, the 'authoritarian/libertarian' axis distinguishes between those who believe people need to be told what to do - as a general principle - and those who believe that people should make up their own minds. Political parties, because they exist in order to tell people what's right, are inevitably more authoritarian than their supporters. A libertarian party has to tell people that being libertarian is right - and if it gets into government, it will pass legislation that imposes that view.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,714 ✭✭✭Balmed Out


    Fianna Fail are not centre left, this was the biggest lie Bertie ever told (and that's saying something). FF have one ideology, populism. Their increasing of welfare and pensions during the bubble years wasn't based on any notions about fairness or distributing the wealth equally, it was about buying votes.

    What party in Ireland is'nt populist? fianna fail have always been centre left far before bertie ahern joined them. The only difference in the bubble years was lowering taxes which was down to the pd's. None of our parties are above altering their policies in order to catch more votes. Ive never voted fianna fail and suspect I never will as I would have a right wing view when it comes to economics. FF are a sliver to the right from labour but thats all they have always been a centre left party.


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