BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

TheQuietFella wrote: »

It has been pointed out here many times and it still doesn't seem to reach the minds of people that a driver is restricted to the hours that he works!
He cannot work in excess of 80 hours per two week period!

Good luck to these drivers. They deserve the very best in a high pressure environment!

High pressure? You must have it soft if driving a bus seems high pressure to you..

lawred2 wrote: »

High pressure? You must have it soft if driving a bus seems high pressure to you..

Road Safety Authority Bus Driver rules
http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Professional-Drivers/Driving-Safely/Driver-Hours/

After a driving period of no more than 4.5 hours, a driver must take a break of at least 45 minutes.
A full 45 minute break can be replaced by a 15 minute plus a 30 minute break, but must be distributed over the 4.5 hour period.
The maximum daily driving limit is 9 hours (this can be increased to 10 hours twice a week).
The maximum weekly driving limit is 56 hours.
The maximum driving time over any two weeks is 90 hours.

Average working hours is the same as everyone has 48 hours
There are also rules for working time for drivers. Weekly working time must not exceed an average of 48 hours per week over a reference period. Drivers can work a maximum of 60 hours in a week, providing they don't exceed the average 48 hour limit.


A Bus Eireann Route for example 2.15 hours driving each way giving a total of 4.3 hours round trip most drivers do 2 round trips in a shift as in around 9 hours a day + breaks and you get delays on routes due to traffic etc causing some end up doing more than 9 hours a day

Some drivers on very long routes would only be doing one round trip a day simply because the overall driving time = 9 Hours

devnull wrote: »

In relation to the Sillian Tours license, this was issued prior to the Public Transport Regulation bill of 2009 and was issued in August 2004. This decision would have been taken by the then Minister for Transport which would have been Seamus Brennan or Martin Cullen, at that time there were no openly published guidelines on licensing and no license types that were made up, there were just licenses, how they were decided on was never shared with the public and never broke down, each one was pretty much decided on a case by case basis.

As part of the Public Transport Regulation Act of 2009 it was no longer the case and routes that were identical to an existing PSO service or very similar were not approved on the basis that on PSO routes ithe incumbent who gets PSO has an exclusive contract for that route. However, exisiting licenses that were issued before then, would be renewed on a rolling basis, but new licenses would have the publicly defined criteria, enshrined in law based on the 2009 Public Transport Regulation Act, and the NTA's publicly published guidelines.

I'm not sure you can blame the NTA on this one, what the NTA have done excellently is set a robust set of clearly published licensing guidelines and an act that underpins them, before 2009 that was not the case and the previous arrangement allowed a minister and the department to have discretion, which ultimately was tested out by Swords Express in court and found to be discriminating against them, this was one of the key factors thaht led to the creation of the 2009 Act and clearly published guidelines as opposed to the previous approach of whatever the minister felt on the day he made the decision.

As for why Sillian don't offer as many services as Bus Eireann, pretty obvious isn't it, because they have to pay for their own vehicles and their own insurance and also their own full costs, so they will never sustain the same frequency against a competitor who has all of these paid for by the state. To even compare both operators is laughable, as per normal you are comparing a company who has free buses, insurance and huge amounts of taxpayer money (apples) with one who has none of them (oranges) and wondering why there are more apples.

Also I don't agree that the Sillian route is identical, their route services a number of places that the 109 does not serve after Navan, so it's not like the route is exactly the same.

I never said the route was the same, nor did I suggest that the Sillan Tours service, and the 109 service were identical. I also stated that Sillan Tours serve towns beyond Navan and locations and within Navan that are not served on the 109 and 107 Bus Éireann routes, which indicates that I never suggested that they ran an identical service to the Bus Éireann services, to which I referred.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103166639&postcount=2157

I asked, considering that Sillan Tours also serve Navan and Dunshaughlin, what has stopped them from running later services to and from Dublin.

I asked you this because it seems that the argument you used before - about Bus Éireann having a monopoly on particular routes, and no other operator being permitted to run identical services covering the same towns - seemingly doesn't apply in this case, I guess, because the route is not identical.

I asked, if the NTA would be receptive to the idea of a company like Sillan Tours operating later services, or more services to and from Dublin throughout the day, on the basis that Sillan also serves Shercock and Cootehill, which are not served on the 109 route.

I asked that with reference to the services by other private coaches like Collins Coaches and Matthews Coaches, who run services from Dublin, later in the evening than Sillan Tours, and who also run more frequent services to and from Carrickmacross and Dublin, and Dundalk and Dublin, throughout the day.

I also didn't blame the NTA for anything. Nor did I refer to the NTA in an accusing or negative manner.

I asked you, if you thought the NTA would be responsive, if Sillan Tours ever did make an application to run later services to and from Dublin, or more regular services to and from Dublin during the day.

I appreciate the reasons you have given as to why a private company might not make such and application, but do you think the NTA would respond positively to such and application?

I understand that they would be more likely to get approval from the NTA, for such a proposal, on the basis that they don't run an identical service to the Bus Éireann services.

You cannot be serious, in interpreting my questions, as blaming the NTA, for anything, or of criticizing private coach operators, or of comparing them negatively against Bus Éireann.

If anything, my questions about a possibility of Sillan Tours running more services, could just as easily be interpreted, as speaking of this private coach company, in a positive light.

If I was being negative about Sillan Tours, I wouldn't entertain the idea, on a public discussion forum, that it might increase its services. If it ever did, it would suit people who take Sillan or Bus Éireann, but live beyond Navan or Kells, in Cavan, but not in the Virginia or Cavan Town area.

It's just that there is an uncertainty about how private companies would operate routes, in a scenario where Bus Éireann was wound down and Bus Éireann routes taken over by other coach companies. A number of posters, on this forum who suggest that Bus Éireann be wound down, cannot say with any certainty, if private operators would show an interest in running many of services that are currently operated by Bus Éireann.

Other companies deciding against operating particular services, that are currently operated by Bus Éireann, to me, is a very concerning, possible knock on effect, of winding down Bus Éireann.

I know I have stated this before, but, in my defence, this issue was highlighted in one of the Oireachtas Joint Committee meetings, between various public representatives, and the NTA, on 22nd February.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=34662&&CatID=127

horseburger wrote:

I asked, considering that Sillan Tours also serve Navan and Dunshaughlin, what has stopped them from running later services to and from Dublin.

What stops them is that they are a private company and must make money to keep the lights on. If the demand isn't there for a particular service they won't run services.

paulboland wrote: »

What you on about I'm not saying anything about a bus driver overtime been reduced.

It's the opposite in fact overtime is part of the shift due to no fault of a driver it's simply down to traffic delays most times same if you was driving yourself you would get delayed which would increase your driving time to your location.

If a driver needs to do a 9 hour shift he should do a 9 hour shift.

He can do four 9 hour shifts in a week and then on a 5th day he can cover an other route for four hours (assuming 40 hour week before o/t) or be a reserve driver in case of an incident where an extra driver is needed. No over time needed unless he is needed as a reserve driver.

At the momentime a bus driver will do give nine hours shifts and might run his route 5 times even if it's a 4 hour route.

Graham wrote: »

The same traffic the private operators manage to work with no?

A to B
Timetable has Bus Depart time and Arrival time

Example timetable says the journey takes 2.15 hours each way giving you a total time of 4.3 hours to do that run

Bus drivers get delays on routes due to lots of traffic reasons delays some can be minor some can be a pain in the ass

Did you ever consider as to why the bus at times is late arriving at a bus stop as in 10 min or half and hour or 40 min late.

You can get heavy traffic in Dublin and other causes like breakdowns to cause traffic delays.

When no delays a bus will arrive and depart on time but in the real world that always don't happen

PeadarCo wrote: »

What stops them is that they are a private company and must make money to keep the lights on. If the demand isn't there for a particular service they won't run services.

That kind of endorses the concern I have.

paulboland wrote: »

Driving time is only part of a shift they do other work in a shift beside driving so very often it's more than 9 hours

How often is "very often"?

paulboland wrote: »

From talking to bus eireann drivers most shifts
Some are very good drivers and yes some are not but they do lot more than just drive the bus during a shift

What else do they do and is your knowledge limited to the 109?

horseburger wrote:

That kind of endorses the concern I have.

What does it endorse? that commercial routes will be run in a commercial manner and PSO routes will be run in accordance with the terms of the PSO contract. As others have mentioned theres no difference between Expressway and any private operator. As has been mentioned many times Bus Eireann only run PSO services because they are paid to do any have a monopoly on these services.

Currently Sillan Tours is not contracted to run PSO routes. Now if the company did it could do it cheaper than Bus Eireann judging by ticket price. But something tells me that open tendering of PSO contracts wouldn't be welcomed by unions. Based on the performance of Expressway it would lose alot of the PSO contracts.

Pretty much all of the above has been said repeatedly by a number of different posters on numerous occasions. Do you not have a better argument than something that has been refuted countless times at this stage. There is an argument by the way. That Bus Eireanns worker's come first and to hell with everyone else. Its a valid argument if not very politically friendly.

paulboland wrote: »

A bus driver will have the same duties to do on other buses beside drive a bus regardless what the Bus is that they drive.

So what are their other duties apart from driving?

Are the routes that were to be scrapped still going to be cut?

paulboland wrote: »

they do other work in a shift beside driving so very often it's more than 9 hours

paulboland wrote: »

but they do lot more than just drive the bus during a shift

Peppa Pig wrote: »

So what are their other duties apart from driving?

paulboland wrote: »

It's not up to me to give details of what a bus driver does during a shift outside driving as in operation duties.

Well then you cannot state, as a fact, that drivers do other duties when you can't even name one. You're argument cannot be taken seriously.

paulboland wrote:

Same as what I do for a living I will not provide actual duties I do during my shift as it's due to security reasons.

So a Bus Drivers other duties are secret and subject to security concerns? :rolleyes:

n97 mini wrote: »

You claim they've other duties but won't back it up. :rolleyes:

Isn't one of the major cost savings around driver efficiency and extra tasks such as pre journey checks, picking up litter at the end of a journey?
Seems like they currently have to upload all the passengers facebook feeds to the special branch.

devnull wrote: »

No, what will happen is if the routes that are changed or are cut, the National Transport Authority will examine the impact that they have on the places that will see less services and the capacity and services that will be in place after the cuts take place.

Then they will make one of three decisions
a) Do nothing as all places served already have adequate services
b) Extend existing PSO routes timetable or route to cover places not served enough
c) Put a tender out for a new route that BE and Privates can bid for.

which is effectively what he said all be it with only a basic detail.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Let's see clean the buses between trips..................Sorry forgot they did not do that part of the new pending agreement.
First check in the morning before taking bus out........Sorry forgot they did not do that part of the new pending agreement.
Checking online ticketing,.........Sorry forgot they did not do that part of the new pending agreement.
Checking fuel saving,..................Sorry forgot they did not do that part of the new pending agreement.

You me stumpef

Sitting in the depot as a reserve driver jn case another driver calls in sick.

Yep they do that. Some times even as overtime (and if needed to step I and drive they could do significant overtime)

paulboland wrote: »

There is more to do in any bus drivers job with any transport company than just drive the Bus from start of a shift to finish of the shift.
You ever hear of a something called paperwork and shift changeover duties and other duties in a job.

You still can't answer the question, so I have to assume your assertion was bull****. Shift changeover duties are getting out of the seat.

My Job is in Security so I cant disclose any details of my job to outsiders for good and clear reasons
Ask a Bus Driver yourself if you feel the need to know what their day of work involves
I'm curious though do you even use Bus Eireann
Are you even affected by the Bus Eireann Strike
Do you even use any Bus transport
Do you drive your own car as in your not affected by any Bus Strike
Are you in anyway connected to private bus operator company

So you refuse to disclose any details about yourself or share your wide experience of bus driver duties but you expect me to tell you what I had for my breakfast.
I don't work for any transport company, never have

paulboland wrote: »

Ask a bus eireann driver yourself if your desperate to know what they do from start of a shift to end of a shift or is that not possible because you don't even use bus transport.

Makes claims
Tells others to verify those claim themselves

Why????

devnull wrote: »

You said it is given to privates if there is a need, it isn't, it's given to the operator of the PSO service if an adequate one already exists that can be changed to add such places to the service and if it isn't a tender is issued which any company, private or public can win.

No rural areas will be left behind if services to Bus Eireann are cut, according to the National Transport Authority.

NTA's CEO Anne Graham says if that happens, they will examine the towns left behind to provide alternative services.

Some of these can be covered by existing services both Bus Eireann Public Transport Buses routes and existing private bus providers


If these both services don't cover the axed routes they will provide alternative services if it's required as in if

paulboland wrote: »

because you don't even use bus transport.

How can you decide that? Just because you don't work for a transport company doesn't mean you don't use them.

I'll get on a BE bus tomorrow and report back on these secret tasks.
Oh wait - they are on strike, guess I'll have to wait until they come back to work.