The return of Declan Ganley

FutureTaoiseach · 13-09-2009 12:50pm

Oh the good old Irish Times, with 6 articles for the yes side and zero for the no side yesterday. So impartial. So balanced. Rivada played a prominent role in the rescue of civilians in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina through the provision of emergency-disaster relief equipment. An honorable act. I don't agree with the war in Iraq. But just because some people on the board agreed with the war, that doesn't mean Iraq has anything to do with Rivada. And furthermore, might I remind you that Bush was Commander in Chief so they had to follow orders or resign their commission.

ei.sdraob · 13-09-2009 12:55pm

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

Rivada played a prominent role in the rescue of civilians in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina through the provision of emergency-disaster relief equipment. An honorable act. I don't agree with the war in Iraq. But just because some people on the board agreed with the war, that doesn't mean Iraq has anything to do with Rivada.

agreed with the war?

some of these directors were in the inner circle urging for the war to start asap

Gen Myers was the principal military adviser to George Bush for the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

with Ganley joining in on the "reconstruction" pile afterwards in order to make money

perhaps you should read up on Katrina, the relief effort was an absolute botch job, helping with a disaster does not make it right to hire people responsible for Iraq war or profiting from a needless war

/

ei.sdraob · 13-09-2009 1:11pm

more interesting reading on himself

http://www.economist.com/blogs/certainideasofeurope/2008/09/us_military_ties_to_the_lisbon.cfm

A rich Irishman who has dabbled in business dealings from Russia to America, Mr Ganley currently runs a firm called Rivada that does much of its work for US military organisations, including the National Guard. He recently revealed that he had contributed €200,000 to Libertas (he called it a loan, but said it was not yet being repaid). He had previously claimed that most of the group's backing came from small donors.

"A total of €200,000 came from a single donor who was a key organiser for Libertas and has military procurement contracts with the US government. I ask Dick Roche, the Irish Europe minister, to make sure he carries out a full and thorough investigation so that we can have full transparency."

passive · 13-09-2009 1:42pm

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

Oh the good old Irish Times, with 6 articles for the yes side and zero for the no side yesterday. So impartial. So balanced.

As a great American patriot once said, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

ei.sdraob · 13-09-2009 1:47pm

passive wrote: »

As a great American patriot once said, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

well if he wants to discredit the IT

then how about the independent

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/libertas-chief-ganley-brings-former-military-chiefs-on-board-1666789.html

or the economist

http://www.economist.com/blogs/certainideasofeurope/2008/09/us_military_ties_to_the_lisbon.cfm

or indymedia (which is very anti Lisbon judging by the amounts of NO articles they have)

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

or village magazine

http://villagemagazine.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/colm-mac-eochaidh-on-libertas/

i can go on and on

Spiritoftheseventies · 13-09-2009 2:25pm

I think contributor put it well on Marian Finucane this morning. Michael O Leary puts a lot behind yes campaign and barely any one objects. But everyone wants to know where Libertas get their money.
Do you think O Leary is putting any of Ryanairs money into campaign. Is it his own money. Anyone asked?

nacho libre · 13-09-2009 2:29pm

as i suspect you already know ei.sdraob it's not just prominent people looking for a no vote that profit from war.
it's interesting you don't mention the companies and individuals who pushed for the iraq war that also openly support this treaty.
of course this is because it does not suit your argument to disucuss these people. if your piece was being a done on someone backing the yes campaign we would see posts reminding you the conspiracy theory forum was this way ----> however, this is not to disagree with you that Ganley is probably against this treaty because it will be bad for some war/conflict-loving sectors in America. i'm just pointing out that hypocrisy and bias is not exclusive to those advocating a no vote.

you'd be better served to reiterate the merits of passing this treaty.
the charter of human rights, energy policy, the enhanced cooperation on crime are all excellent reasons to vote yes to the treaty. these are the issues that convinced me to vote yes. not the the lazy fear tactics used by some of you on here. the irony is much like last time fear and issues not related to the treaty will be the reason the majority vote yes this time. of course you others will obviously deny this is the case;)

is_that_so · 13-09-2009 2:56pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

I think contributor put it well on Marian Finucane this morning. Michael O Leary puts a lot behind yes campaign and barely any one objects. But everyone wants to know where Libertas get their money.
Do you think O Leary is putting any of Ryanairs money into campaign. Is it his own money. Anyone asked?

Ryanair's money. There's a degree of self-interest here anyway especially in the seat giveaway promotion. If he botches it he'll have to answer to the shareholders. O'Leary's advantage is that anything he says tends to be controversial so he's almost always guaranteed media time.

Libertas on the other hand, and by extension, Declan Ganley, is a 3rd party i.e. one that can accept donations and so is governed by SIPO.

A third party means any individual or group, other than a registered political party or election candidate, who or which accepts, in a particular calendar year, a donation exceeding the value of €126.97.

Full text

cornbb · 13-09-2009 4:37pm

When you consider that all of the groups from the No side comprise fringe elements of politics, trade unions etc, the No campaign is being overrepresented in the media if you ask me. SF are the only political party campaiging for a No vote that are represented in the Dáil. Declan Ganley is just a private citizen yet his press conferences make headline news. The TEEU only have 40k-odd members yet they were all over irishtimes.com this morning. Patricia McKenna and Kathy Sinnott would rarely if ever get on the TV/radio if it wasn't for their No campaigning. The cynic in me says that part of the reason that these people/organisations are only campaigning for a No vote is so the media will actually take some notice of them, tbh.

ei.sdraob · 13-09-2009 4:56pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

I think contributor put it well on Marian Finucane this morning. Michael O Leary puts a lot behind yes campaign and barely any one objects. But everyone wants to know where Libertas get their money.
Do you think O Leary is putting any of Ryanairs money into campaign. Is it his own money. Anyone asked?

he told everyone exactly how much hes spending and where the money is coming from

we are still waiting on Libertas to disclose that information

nacho libre wrote: »

as i suspect you already know ei.sdraob it's not just prominent people looking for a no vote that profit from war.
it's interesting you don't mention the companies and individuals who pushed for the iraq war that also openly support this treaty.

such as?

Tridion · 13-09-2009 6:19pm

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who Declan Ganley is.

He's wrong about the Lisbon Treaty. Full stop.

Spiritoftheseventies · 13-09-2009 6:25pm

cornbb wrote: »

When you consider that all of the groups from the No side comprise fringe elements of politics, trade unions etc, the No campaign is being overrepresented in the media if you ask me. SF are the only political party campaiging for a No vote that are represented in the Dáil. Declan Ganley is just a private citizen yet his press conferences make headline news. The TEEU only have 40k-odd members yet they were all over irishtimes.com this morning. Patricia McKenna and Kathy Sinnott would rarely if ever get on the TV/radio if it wasn't for their No campaigning. The cynic in me says that part of the reason that these people/organisations are only campaigning for a No vote is so the media will actually take some notice of them, tbh.

Joe Higgins elected to Europe so he has a mandate and Patricia McKenna is no stranger to politics herself as a former Green Party member and former MEP The ideal that all people on No side are all political novices a bit daft really.
COIR and Libertas maybe lightweights but a bit more respect for McKenna and Higgins. End of the day, they have been around a long time.

Tridion · 13-09-2009 6:32pm

cornbb, it's because they define their politics by doing the opposite of what the party in power are doing.

At least Labour, FG etc have the cop-on not to treat the Lisbon Treaty like a political football.

cornbb · 13-09-2009 6:37pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

Joe Higgins elected to Europe so he has a mandate and Patricia McKenna is no stranger to politics herself as a former Green Party member and former MEP The ideal that all people on No side are all political novices a bit daft really.

I never claimed that they were novices. But my claim that they are collectively more or less on the fringe of public life, in comparison with the Yes advocates (almost all of the political parties, trade unions, big businesses, etc), still stands.

Spiritoftheseventies · 13-09-2009 7:32pm

cornbb wrote: »

I never claimed that they were novices. But my claim that they are collectively more or less on the fringe of public life, in comparison with the Yes advocates (almost all of the political parties, trade unions, big businesses, etc), still stands.

How are they on the fringe. Higgins is an elected member of the European Party. McKenna and Sinnott have also been elected to the Parliament. So again to say they are on the fringe makes no sense.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 13-09-2009 7:51pm

Why are RTÉ news giving this reject airtime?

He represents no-one but himself.

nacho libre · 13-09-2009 8:03pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

such as?

BBVA. BAE Systems Bofors. Diehl BGT Defence.

these companies are all keen to see the treaty pass. As are people like Peter Sutherland. i'm sure there are many more right-wing organisations that are pro the treaty and who were pro the Iraq war that i'm not aware of. if anyone wants to be even handed about this debate they could point out a few of them or you and others could do what a poster after you suggested: debate the merits of the treaty and forget about who Ganley is.

is_that_so · 13-09-2009 8:29pm

Seeing as this thread is about him, it's not unreasonable to discuss his potential impact on the campaign. Much as we would all love to look at this purely on its merits, personalities and pat and mostly inaccurate messages about Lisbon will be what determine the end result. Ganley and Libertas and any other campaigner for that matter and how they might perform over the remaining weeks is of as much importance as the substance of the Treaty.

Happy Monday · 13-09-2009 9:11pm

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Why are RTÉ news giving this reject airtime?

He represents no-one but himself.

Reject - Lisbon treaty - RTE news - unelected - that's no way to talk about Brian Cowen now is it.

On the basis of balanced reporting RTE is compelled to show No campaigners as well as those who wish Ireland to be ruled from Brussels.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 13-09-2009 9:17pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

Reject - Lisbon treaty - RTE news - unelected - that's no way to talk about Brian Cowen now is it.

On the basis of balanced reporting RTE is compelled to show No campaigners as well as those who wish Ireland to be ruled from Brussels.

Let them show Sinn Fein and Joe Higgins, they have mandates...

Spiritoftheseventies · 13-09-2009 9:22pm

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Let them show Sinn Fein and Joe Higgins, they have mandates...

To be fair, Marian stood up to Ganley today so there is no question of him getting an easy ride. But RTE though a state broadcaster can not exclude him. They are there to cover the campaign.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 13-09-2009 9:23pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

To be fair, Marian stood up to Ganley today so there is no question of him getting an easy ride. But RTE though a state broadcaster can not exclude him. They are there to cover the campaign.

OK, how do I, or you for that matter, get on?

You and I are just as elected as Ganley, and have just as much right to be on tv talking about Lisbon.

Well, maybe except we don't have millions of Euros to spend on an advertising campaign...

Happy Monday · 13-09-2009 9:27pm

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Let them show Sinn Fein and Joe Higgins, they have mandates...

You don't need to be elected to have a mandate.
He did receive 70,000 votes in the North West region in the European election.
FG, Labour and other federalists are given air time so should SF, Joe Higgins and Declan Ganley.

Perhaps Declan will make middle Ireland sit up and take notice of what fat lips is trying to pass off on the unassuming Irish public.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 13-09-2009 9:29pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

You don't need to be elected to have a mandate.
He did receive 70,000 votes in the North West region in the European election.
FG, Labour and other federalists are given air time so should SF, Joe Higgins and Declan Ganley.

Perhaps Declan will make middle Ireland sit up and take notice of what fat lips is trying to pass off on the unassuming Irish public.

Why shouldn't I, or you then? If the only criteria is having an opinion...

You might notice that Ganley is the odd man out in your list there, by the way.

Spiritoftheseventies · 13-09-2009 9:33pm

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

OK, how do I, or you for that matter, get on?

You and I are just as elected as Ganley, and have just as much right to be on tv talking about Lisbon.

Well, maybe except we don't have millions of Euros to spend on an advertising campaign...

Ganley is a businessman, Michael O Leary is a businessman. And lets not Tom Parlon who is also campaigning for a yes vote.
Given that the yes vote is at 63 per cent and No at 15 in todays SINDO poll would take a miracle for a No vote to get through second time around.
Thats the long and short of it.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 13-09-2009 9:35pm

How many people does Ganleys business employ in Ireland, and how much tax does it pay to the Irish exchequer?

Ganley is a rich 'elite' with an opinion and an attitude that he has a god given right to be listened to.

Happy Monday · 13-09-2009 9:40pm

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Why shouldn't I, or you then? If the only criteria is having an opinion...

You might notice that Ganley is the odd man out in your list there, by the way.

Cowen is not an MEP - why should he have an opinion?
Cowen has not received any mandate from the people of Ireland to be Taoiseach and he talks openly of mandates.
Of course, he could go to the country and place his faith in democracy.
Or maybe hold a second general election if he doesn't get the result he wants the first time round.

Tridion · 13-09-2009 9:44pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

You don't need to be elected to have a mandate.

That sentence is entirely incorrect. A mandate is power given to a candidate by the electorate. Ganley was not elected and therefore does not have a mandate. basic, basic, basic politics.

Happy Monday wrote: »

Perhaps Declan will make middle Ireland sit up and take notice of what fat lips is trying to pass off on the unassuming Irish public.

What's trying to be "passed off"? A good reform treaty that has lots of benefits for Ireland and other EU countries? That strengthens our hand in:
1. Climate change
2. Peace keeping
3. Human trafficking

You really think these things are bad??

oscarBravo · 13-09-2009 9:45pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

Or maybe hold a second general election if he doesn't get the result he wants the first time round.

Is there a way he can do that within the scope of our constitution?

P. Breathnach · 13-09-2009 9:51pm

Happy Monday wrote: »

... Cowen has not received any mandate from the people of Ireland to be Taoiseach and he talks openly of mandates...

There is no such thing as a "mandate from the people of Ireland to be Taoiseach". Cowen has the only possible mandate: he was elected by the members of Dáil Eireann.

The return of Declan Ganley

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