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Business interests advocate a yes vote

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    #32
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    ghost_ie wrote: »
    If Michael O'Leary wants us to vote yes, there's something in it for him and it won't be good for the rest of us. That's one reason for voting no

    I hated cheap air fares myself - good for O'Leary, awfully bad for the traveller. It was much better when it cost £200 to get to London and only the rich could afford to travel.

    amused,
    Scofflaw


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    #33
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    ghost_ie wrote: »
    If Michael O'Leary wants us to vote yes, there's something in it for him and it won't be good for the rest of us. That's one reason for voting no

    Wow, just wow. You think that if a massive Irish company that employs many many people in this country thinks it will benefit that can only mean that everyone else in the country will lose out, including his employees and the employees of all the other big companies. Do you not think that there could ever be anything that is in both your interests and Michael O'Leary's

    If he was campaigning for more hospitals to open would you fight to have some closed?


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    #34
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    @ghost_ie and @dresden8


    please name a single military officer/admiral/general sitting on the boards of Intel or Ryanair


    now lookup at the fine list that are sitting on Declans company as directors

    one of them should probably be tried for war crimes along with bush and the rest of his golden circle voulchers


    we have people in his company who are directly responsible for a war (and now civil war) that killed more people in a few years than saddam managed to achieve in a few decades


    lets not forget Ganley tried to bid on a large military contract in Iraq, but failed, right after the invasion



    as Sam said earlier, we know where Intel/Ryanair stand, where their money comes from and how much they are spending

    Ganley on the other hand likes to keep a US flag in his office, not Irish flag, not EU flag, not even UK flag

    that says more about where his interests lie

    and we still dont have a policy document from him, since having a policy means sticking to what you believe in, he flip flops all over the place and jumps on opportunities


    once again i dont like the man, i think people like him are highly dangerous

    and the fact that he couldn't answer any questions when i asked him here in galway on streets makes the whole thing smell worse


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    #35
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    marco_polo wrote: »
    The don't really feature much though. The vast majority of Military hardware is highly specialised and certainly does not use off the shelf x486 Quad Core processors, barring office PCs / Servers that I am sure they have much like any other orgainsation.

    Not even in the top 100 in 2002 anyway.
    http://www.govexec.com/top200/02top/s3chart1.htm

    And considering their revenues are roughly in the region of 30-40 billion per year even if they were in 101st place on that list it would barely be a drop in the ocean.

    I see the Government of Germany is on that list.

    Does that make Angela Merkel an agent of the CIA?

    Why are the CIA campaigning for a yes vote through the government of Germany?


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    #36
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    ei.sdraob wrote: »




    we have people in his company who are directly responsible for a war (and now civil war) that killed more people in a few years than saddam managed to achieve in a few decades

    I think you'll find that the UK also took part in that invasion and civil war. A country that is pushing for a Yes vote from us.

    Here is a list of countries that provided troops to Iraq, several that want us to vote yes. (Wiki, I know)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_-_Iraq

    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    lets not forget Ganley tried to bid on a large military contract in Iraq, but failed, right after the invasion

    His CIA and military contacts must be sh1t so.



    This CIA/American military angle is a smokescreen/scare tactic.


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    #37
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    dresden8 wrote: »
    I see the Government of Germany is on that list.

    Does that make Angela Merkel an agent of the CIA?

    Why are the CIA campaigning for a yes vote through the government of Germany?

    Firstly the CIA is a civilian intelligence agency so that statement has fail written all over it.

    Any figures for the value Intel military contracts?

    Any fact based arguments against the treaty?


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    #38
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    dresden8 wrote: »
    I see the Government of Germany is on that list.

    Does that make Angela Merkel an agent of the CIA?

    Why are the CIA campaigning for a yes vote through the government of Germany?

    once again does Intel have on its

    Admirals, Generals and other (ex) US Military people?

    including a certain Gen. Myers who is one of the people responsible and gunning for the Iraq war an I sure hope one day pays for his crimes

    I dont like the idea of Bush's Neo Cons with deep military connections meddling in the affairs of Ireland thru the likes of Ganley

    weve seen how they sent USA down the drain, now they want to **** on EU


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    #39
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    btw my thinking is supported by Fine Gael and Labour

    the 2 major current opposition parties


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0918/breaking75.htm

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0323/1224243267828.html


    anyways im getting sick of talking about Ganley, ive better things to do like concentrating on the treaty

    im now unsubscribing from this thread


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    #40
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    once again does Intel have on its

    Admirals, Generals and other (ex) US Military people?

    including a certain Gen. Myers who is one of the people responsible and gunning for the Iraq war an I sure hope one day pays for his crimes

    I dont like the idea of Bush's Neo Cons with deep military connections meddling in the affairs of Ireland thru the likes of Ganley

    weve seen how they sent USA down the drain, now they want to **** on EU

    If you really believe the CIA/US/Obama are getting involved in internal Irish and European affairs you really should be outside the US embassy protesting or bending Mickey Martin's ear to get him and the rest of the European governments to sort it out.

    This is bullsh1t.


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    #41
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    marco_polo wrote: »

    Any fact based arguments against the treaty?

    Oddly enough I wasn't discussing the treaty, only the villification of Ganley for doing business with a friendly government.

    It's the conspiracy theorists on here who are saying that the big bad US is out to wreck Europe.

    If you believe it to be true, off to the US embassy or Mickey Martin with you.


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    #42
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    dresden8 wrote: »
    If you really believe the CIA/US/Obama are getting involved in internal Irish and European affairs you really should be outside the US embassy protesting or bending Mickey Martin's ear to get him and the rest of the European governments to sort it out.

    This is bullsh1t.

    Where did i say CIA or Obama?

    where did you pull them out of??



    im talking about specifically about Neo Cons, George W. Bushes close buddies and their military top brass

    all of which are represented in abundance in Declans company and board of directors


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    #43
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    Where did i say CIA or Obama?

    where did you pull them out of??



    im talking about specifically about Neo Cons, George W. Bushes close buddies and their military top brass

    all of which are represented in abundance in Declans company and board of directors

    Conspiracy theory forum is this way======>


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    #44
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    dresden8 wrote: »
    If you really believe the CIA/US/Obama are getting involved in internal Irish and European affairs you really should be outside the US embassy protesting or bending Mickey Martin's ear to get him and the rest of the European governments to sort it out.

    This is bullsh1t.

    If you really believe that the US does not play geo-political chess, you do not understand the modern world.

    [The fact that they sometimes play it very crudely and badly might be for another thread.]


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    #45
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Conspiracy theory forum is this way======>

    Are you saying that these people are not on his board?

    Or maybe that for some unknown reason these people the interests of the Irish people at heart and would like us to vote no for entirely unselfish reasons?

    And if that is the case, why does Ganley feel the need to play down these connections and constantly lie about the treaty?


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    #46
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Oddly enough I wasn't discussing the treaty, only the villification of Ganley for doing business with a friendly government.

    It's the conspiracy theorists on here who are saying that the big bad US is out to wreck Europe.

    If you believe it to be true, off to the US embassy or Mickey Martin with you.

    Here is a list of all DOD contractors in 2007, with contracts worth more than $25,000 dollars.

    http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/defense_ethics/resource_library/FY07_Contractors_v2.pdf

    The list is particularly interesting for the complete absence of a certain large multinational corporation, and the presence of an certain company named RIVADA PACIFIC, which is very closely related to a certain RIVADA Networks, with known DoD contracts worth in excess of $240m dollars.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0311/1224242664635.html

    More on Rivada Pacific here:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2008/1029/1225197273403.html
    Rivada Networks has a 49 per cent interest in Rivada Pacific, and the rest of the shareholding is held by an Alaskan company, Nana Pacific, according to the Nana Pacific website (www.nanapacific.com).

    Nana Pacific is in turn part of the Nana Regional Corporation, a native Alaskan corporation which, as such, has special rights in US law allowing it bid for state contracts without complying with certain aspects of public tendering law.


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    #47
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    My theory is as such, all conjecture on my behalf:

    Rivada has more contacts within the US military establishment than in any of the EU militaries, evidenced by the board of Rivada. Rivada is likely to benefit from sales where the US engages in missions be they humanitarian, military intervention, peace keeping or otherwise.

    Any moves towards more cohesive foreign policy on behalf of the EU would start treading on the toes of the US as world police, perhaps leading to European nations taking the lead in humanitarian or peace keeping missions. This would mean that Rivada's main customers don't have as much to do, and won't need as much equipment.

    You don't need to see CIA bogeymen to imagine a material benefit to Rivada, and it's owner, in a 'No' vote to Lisbon.


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    #48
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Conspiracy theory forum is this way======>

    conspiracy?

    people need to be aware of the directors and employees in Declans company

    lets see who we have

    * Gen. Richard Myers - one of the masterminds of the Iraq invasion, ex bush's chief of staff

    * Lord Charles Guthrie - a former chief of the defence staff in Britain.

    * James Tackett - previous Vice president for Homeland Security

    * Don N. De Marino - Served under Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2, served on the Personnel Evaluation Team to assess various operations in Iraq

    * Admiral James M. Loy

    * rear Admiral Robert F. Duncan

    * John J. Kelly, Jr. - chairman of various military/industrial organisations

    * Lt. General Dennis M. McCarthy - ex guy in charge of all the marines

    * John Kneuer - the former principal telecommunications policy adviser to president George Bush


    sources

    http://www.rivada.com/about/keypersonnel.htm

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/libertas-chief-ganley-brings-former-military-chiefs-on-board-1666789.html

    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0520/1211232308995.html

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0323/1224243267828.html

    http://www.comms-express.com/news/networking/rivada-networks-names-new-senior-official-18394231/

    /


  • Options
    #49
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    dresden8 wrote: »
    I think you'll find that the UK also took part in that invasion and civil war.

    its ok Ganley also has
    Lord Charles Guthrie - a former chief of the defence staff in Britain.

    on his team



    dresden8 wrote: »
    A country that is pushing for a Yes vote from us.

    lookit here UKIP are actually actively campaigning in Ireland on the NO side

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055683358

    please name one UK organisation campaigning on the YES side?


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    #50
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    conspiracy?

    people need to be aware of the directors and employees in Declans company

    lets see who we have

    * Gen. Richard Myers - one of the masterminds of the Iraq invasion, ex bush's chief of staff

    * Lord Charles Guthrie - a former chief of the defence staff in Britain.

    * James Tackett - previous Vice president for Homeland Security

    * Don N. De Marino - Served under Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2, served on the Personnel Evaluation Team to assess various operations in Iraq

    * Admiral James M. Loy

    * rear Admiral Robert F. Duncan

    * John J. Kelly, Jr. - chairman of various military/industrial organisations

    * Lt. General Dennis M. McCarthy - ex guy in charge of all the marines

    * John Kneuer - the former principal telecommunications policy adviser to president George Bush


    sources

    http://www.rivada.com/about/keypersonnel.htm

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/libertas-chief-ganley-brings-former-military-chiefs-on-board-1666789.html

    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0520/1211232308995.html

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0323/1224243267828.html

    http://www.comms-express.com/news/networking/rivada-networks-names-new-senior-official-18394231/

    /

    Who are they working for?

    The New World Order or the Illuminati?

    Businessman packs board with useful contacts shock.

    Or less than useful as per previous post.


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    #51
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    My theory is as such, all conjecture on my behalf:

    Rivada has more contacts within the US military establishment than in any of the EU militaries, evidenced by the board of Rivada. Rivada is likely to benefit from sales where the US engages in missions be they humanitarian, military intervention, peace keeping or otherwise.

    Any moves towards more cohesive foreign policy on behalf of the EU would start treading on the toes of the US as world police, perhaps leading to European nations taking the lead in humanitarian or peace keeping missions. This would mean that Rivada's main customers don't have as much to do, and won't need as much equipment.

    You don't need to see CIA bogeymen to imagine a material benefit to Rivada, and it's owner, in a 'No' vote to Lisbon.

    In that case he can pack his board with European generals. They're not averse to making a shed load of money as well.

    Oh, as per above post, he's already started doing it.
    its ok Ganley also has


    Quote:
    Lord Charles Guthrie - a former chief of the defence staff in Britain.

    on his team


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    #52
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Who are they working for?

    The New World Order or the Illuminati?

    Businessman packs board with useful contacts shock.

    Or less than useful as per previous post.


    they are working for Declan

    the same guy campaigning here in Ireland under Libertas (which shares the same phone number as Rivada btw)

    and the guy who is under investigation for shady donations made to his campaign with as much as 200k per single donation in particular


    dresden8 wrote: »
    In that case he can pack his board with European generals. They're not averse to making a shed load of money as well.

    you miss the point, Euro military companies are not campaigning in yet another referendum and euro elections here in Ireland

    but Declan and his top brass are at it again, trying to influence the Irish vote for whatever their reasons are, and using classic Neo Con tactics

    /


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    #53
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Who are they working for?

    The New World Order or the Illuminati?

    Businessman packs board with useful contacts shock.

    Or less than useful as per previous post.

    Yes those contacts are indeed useful when your interests are in the US military. They're not so useful when you're trying to make out that your interests are the will of the Irish people......


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    #54
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    OK, this thread is probably far enough off topic now. There's another thread for discussing the inestimable Mr Ganley.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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    #55
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    Yes those contacts are indeed useful when your interests are in the US military. They're not so useful when you're trying to make out that your interests are the will of the Irish people......

    not only that but several members have provided multiple sources in mainstream media

    that are talking about the connection

    @dresden8 so far only accused others companies of doing same

    while not providing a single source to backup his statements and effort to make me appear as some conspiracy nut

    @dresden8 if it makes you feel better i dont believe in conspiracies, given what we know about Declan and the people he surrounds himself with (and his lies), its not unreasonable to hold an opinion that the guy has anything but our interests in his heart


    anyways im getting rather bored of talking about him and distracting from the main issue at hand > Lisbon Treaty

    edit: just seen Scofflaws post, for the second time in this thread im willing to stop talking about him his not some sort of messiah for the NO side


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    #56
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Well here's strong supporters of the Neo-con US military campaigning for a yes vote

    http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2003/03/21/story213743102.asp
    TÁNAISTE Mary Harney yesterday signalled strong support for the US-led war on Iraq despite its failure to secure UN backing.

    In the most strident pro-US comments to date from the Government, Ms Harney described America and Britain as close friends and said she understood the security concerns which sparked the war
    The Dáil voted yesterday to support a Government motion which allowed the US to continue using Shannon

    Just saw Scofflaws post too.


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    #57
    A Primal Nut
    Registered Users Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    ghost_ie wrote: »
    If Michael O'Leary wants us to vote yes, there's something in it for him and it won't be good for the rest of us. That's one reason for voting no

    Are you for real? Please explain the logic of "There's something in it for him and it won't be good for the rest of us." You could use the same absurd logic towards Declan Ganley, Sinn Fein, the socialist party or even your next door neighbour. It may not be good for you but its definitely good for the staff of Ryanair. Ryanair doing well equals more jobs, with those people earning more money and more money coming into the country through exports and tax, therefore the government has more money and there are less people unemployed. In the long term, what is good for Michael O'Leary is good for you, unless you own shares in a rival airline, although they probably have the same views on the treaty as O'Leary.


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    #58
    ro09
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭ro09


    baaaa wrote: »
    Does this worry people or not and why?


    They say it will send out a "Positive message" to europe if we vote yes.

    What is this Positive message is it -

    Oh Don't worry about the Irish just give them two Referendums and they'll be ok.

    :D


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    #59
    ro09
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭ro09


    A Primal Nut wrote: »
    Are you for real? Please explain the logic of "There's something in it for him and it won't be good for the rest of us." You could use the same absurd logic towards Declan Ganley, Sinn Fein, the socialist party or even your next door neighbour. It may not be good for you but its definitely good for the staff of Ryanair. Ryanair doing well equals more jobs, with those people earning more money and more money coming into the country through exports and tax, therefore the government has more money and there are less people unemployed. In the long term, what is good for Michael O'Leary is good for you, unless you own shares in a rival airline, although they probably have the same views on the treaty as O'Leary.

    No the Rich will get Richer out of Europe and the Poor will get Poorer. All the money will be with the Developers and big Business. As for getting money out of Ryanair for anything, i don't think so.


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    #60
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Well here's strong supporters of the Neo-con US military campaigning for a yes vote

    http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2003/03/21/story213743102.asp





    Just saw Scofflaws post too.

    1. FF are not a business (see topic title)

    2. we all hate FF and cant wait to see them go

    3. what was allowed to happen in shannon is yet another reason to vote FF out when time comes


    im happy we have some common ground dresden :) the hate for FF


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    #61
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    ro09 wrote: »
    Oh Don't worry about the Irish just give them two Referendums and they'll be ok

    People of Denmark voted twice in a referendum on EU Treaty, second time they got guarantees like we did

    I dont see anyone saying anything bad about them

    its such a terrible thing aint it being "allowed" to vote :rolleyes:


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