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WPP1 / WPP2
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I am absolutely shocked i got just a letter of regret saying i wouldnt be offered an interview. I emailed the company reminding them it was a work experience salary and why wasnt i given a least an interview now waiting for a reply..cant believe this wat chance have i of getting a real job if i cant even get a voluteer job!!:mad:
It's not about you.
They probably got a few hundred applications, and it's not feasible to interview 'em all.
It's all about numbers, and luck. Keep trying. And keep busy in the meantime.0 -
Except for the fact that they have to pay, at a minimum, €17,000 a yearunJustMary wrote: »Your argument doesn't hold: Your first 12 months in any job in this country is a permanent job interview: you have no rights, and can be dispensed with at a moment's notice, for no reason at all. So there is very little risk associated with hiring.
Which are worthless in many, many areas. The point of this scheme is practical experience in your area, the references are just to show that you have obtained that experienceunJustMary wrote: »Even someone with no experience will have character references from teachers, sports coaches, etc.
"Strong international evidence"? A bit vague, don't you think? The employee does have to fill out 2 progress reports during the placement, confirming that they are getting experience. Whether there would be action taken if they weren't, I don't know, but I would imagine the employer would be struck from the scheme. Also, it's not like the employee is tied to the job, they can walk away from a position with no penalties if they feel they're not getting useful experience. And again, the firm may be getting something for nothing, but the government is not losing anything, since the employees would be on the dole regardlessunJustMary wrote: »I don't have any references right now, but do remember that there's strong international evidence that employment schemes that the employer doesn't pay anything for are a huge risk: the government is either subsidising a firm, or paying for the workers to be told to play cards etc because the employer cannot pay for materials/tools etc for them to use to do work.Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, dark mode, and more). Now available through your browser's extension store.
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wpp coming to light only now on rte news,typical...:rolleyes:0
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companies exploiting people should be named and shamed.
half the vacancies would disappear over night!
Seriously tho, people after 4 years of study are expected to work for nothing for 9 months, talk about the race to the bottom!
Sums up how far we have come and how much bankers/ff/builders have ruined this country0 -
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Glad it's on the news. Where tho?
Someone I know had an interview for one of the graduate placements last month; was called the next week and told while the interview was very successful, they took on somebody with experience...eh, isn't the point of the scheme to give graduates without or with little experience, that exactly??
They basically took someone on to do their work at their level.0 -
LadyPennyworth wrote: »They basically took someone on to do their work at their level.
I know its for people with little experience, but you cant expect a company to say no to someone with more experience if they can get away with it...0 -
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I have an WPP1 interview on Friday, its quite a basic position with Waterford County Council so not much chance of impressing them and getting a paid position out of it, unlike a placement in the private sector. Its not ideal after 5 years in college but I really do hope I get it, I wouldn't have believed I'd be saying that when I was slaving away at my Master's Dissertation
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I would never apply for one of these things.
If I am going to volunteer it is going to be for a charity that doesn't receive government funding and is comprised solely of volunteers- not some private company taking the piss!!!0 -
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Except, if you have no experience, the best position you're likely to get with a voluntary organisation is as a chugger on the streets. You won't get any practical experience, since voluntary organisations have neither the manpower, time or resources to train someone up. Also, even if you do get a position with practical worth, you more than likely won't be eligible to keep your dole anymore, since you're no longer available for workI would never apply for one of these things.
If I am going to volunteer it is going to be for a charity that doesn't receive government funding and is comprised solely of volunteers- not some private company taking the piss!!!Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, dark mode, and more). Now available through your browser's extension store.
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The employers receive a payment for taking on the fas applicant and another paymant if they offer the applicant a job after the 6/9mth period of 'training'.
One friend of a small retail has received 3k for an applicant and another 3k if they offer him a position afterwards.
I have seen several positions on fas that i know that people have been let go in order to use fas to fill these positions and they ask for experience on the advert. This makes me so ............:mad: total abuse0 -
What's your source for this? There's no mention of it on the WPP's 'Provider' section on the Fás website, and I would imagine it would be something Fás would want to publicize to employers. Sounds like your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.The employers receive a payment for taking on the fas applicant and another paymant if they offer the applicant a job after the 6/9mth period of 'training'.
One friend of a small retail has received 3k for an applicant and another 3k if they offer him a position afterwards.
Such as? This is in spite of the fact that the employer is required to declare on their application form (from the same website page):I have seen several positions on fas that i know that people have been let go in order to use fas to fill these positions and they ask for experience on the advert. This makes me so ............:mad: total abuse- The business currently has no vacancies in the area of activity in which the placement is offered
- The placement will not be provided to displace an existing employee
- (i) The business has not made any person redundant in the last three months, or (ii) There have been redundancies in the last three months but there has been no direct displacement of an employee, and the level of redundancies in the last three months is less than 5% of the workforce.
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I ask the question because I don't know the specifics being discussed. But I assume in terms of paying a mortgage and other bills you'd be better off on the WPP because you might have many of those bills covered, (its the same as the dole yes?) but on the minimum wage you'd be paying them yourself. Likewise a company pay less for WPP than a Minimum wage employee. So it would make financial sense for them, there maybe be other altruistic reasons for doing it.
Theres limits to how a company takes advantage of it. It probably will be abused. I only commented because I noticed how a most starter roles have switched to WPP. So its closed as many doors for some people as its opened for others.
That said its not 5yrs ago. The market will dictate what these starter roles will be paid, or not paid. Its not the celtic tiger now. Its not what you are worth, but what you can get.
i think the WPP and FAS are a complete joke. I'm unemployed and I don't receive any payment. I can apply for a WPP and therefore will have to work for free....... infact as another poster pointed out, it will cost me to go to work!.... Bullsh8t!!
What is even more infuriating is the CE schemes. There are some CE schemes in my locality, but because I am not in receipt of a social welfare payment, I will never be eligible to apply for these positions. And what pisses me off the most about this is, one, they can't get people to fill these positions, and two, it would be somewhat relevant experience for the career I would like to pursue.
Fas are an outdated organisation IMO. They are still offering Site safe pass courses for F*** sake!0 -
What's your source for this? There's no mention of it on the WPP's 'Provider' section on the Fás website, and I would imagine it would be something Fás would want to publicize to employers. Sounds like your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.Such as? This is in spite of the fact that the employer is required to declare on their application form (from the same website page):
- The business currently has no vacancies in the area of activity in which the placement is offered
- The placement will not be provided to displace an existing employee
- (i) The business has not made any person redundant in the last three months, or (ii) There have been redundancies in the last three months but there has been no direct displacement of an employee, and the level of redundancies in the last three months is less than 5% of the workforce.
I think you presume that employers are overly honest?? What penalties are out there to deter them from breaching the conditions of the WPP??0 -
i think the WPP and FAS are a complete joke. I'm unemployed and I don't receive any payment. I can apply for a WPP and therefore will have to work for free....... infact as another poster pointed out, it will cost me to go to work!.... Bullsh8t!!
What is even more infuriating is the CE schemes. There are some CE schemes in my locality, but because I am not in receipt of a social welfare payment, I will never be eligible to apply for these positions. And what pisses me off the most about this is, one, they can't get people to fill these positions, and two, it would be somewhat relevant experience for the career I would like to pursue.
Fas are an outdated organisation IMO. They are still offering Site safe pass courses for F*** sake!
Why are you not receiving social welfare payment if you are unemployed? Is it because you are under 18?0 -
And if there was no WPP, what would you have gained? Are you losing out in some way because it exists? It's there so that people who are on welfare can gain practical experience in jobs they wouldn't get otherwise. They offer it to people who aren't on welfare in case there are a small number of people who want to avail of the scheme even though they aren't on welfare for whatever reason.i think the WPP and FAS are a complete joke. I'm unemployed and I don't receive any payment. I can apply for a WPP and therefore will have to work for free....... infact as another poster pointed out, it will cost me to go to work!.... Bullsh8t!!
This thread isn't about CE schemes, nor is it about Fás' efficiency as a whole. I think the expenses and exams scandals showed that things are not well at Fás, but this thread is about the WPP, one of the good scheme's that they came up with.What is even more infuriating is the CE schemes. There are some CE schemes in my locality, but because I am not in receipt of a social welfare payment, I will never be eligible to apply for these positions. And what pisses me off the most about this is, one, they can't get people to fill these positions, and two, it would be somewhat relevant experience for the career I would like to pursue.
So? Are you saying that because there's been such a drop-off in demand for construction workers? If people don't want to do the courses, they won't be run, if there are sufficient numbers applying, they will be. What's the issue?Fas are an outdated organisation IMO. They are still offering Site safe pass courses for F*** sake!
Did you read my previous posts? Firstly, the participant can report them and leave the position if they feel they're not getting relevant experience. marizpan said that they know of companies where people were let go and the positions filled with people from the scheme. Yet if he/she knows it, you would assume the ex-employee also knows about it, and any half-decent lawyer would win a wrongful dismissal suit in a heartbeat.I think you presume that employers are overly honest?? What penalties are out there to deter them from breaching the conditions of the WPP??Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, dark mode, and more). Now available through your browser's extension store.
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i think the WPP and FAS are a complete joke. I'm unemployed and I don't receive any payment. I can apply for a WPP and therefore will have to work for free....... infact as another poster pointed out, it will cost me to go to work!.... Bullsh8t!!
What is even more infuriating is the CE schemes. There are some CE schemes in my locality, but because I am not in receipt of a social welfare payment, I will never be eligible to apply for these positions. And what pisses me off the most about this is, one, they can't get people to fill these positions, and two, it would be somewhat relevant experience for the career I would like to pursue.
Fas are an outdated organisation IMO. They are still offering Site safe pass courses for F*** sake!
Sorry to hear your unemployed. Hope you find something soon. But your issue really is that you don't qualify, "yet" for SW, and thus fall into the catchment of any of these things. My post has nothing to do with that so I dunno why you'd quote it.0 -
Why are you not receiving social welfare payment if you are unemployed? Is it because you are under 18?
No it is not because I am under 18, far from it..... because it is means assessed and my wife is earning just over the threshold so I have been informed by the Department of Social welfare.Sorry to hear your unemployed. Hope you find something soon. But your issue really is that you don't qualify, "yet" for SW, and thus fall into the catchment of any of these things. My post has nothing to do with that so I dunno why you'd quote it.
The reason I quoted you was because you stated that persons would be better off to work whilst claiming a social welfare payment rather than minimum wage.... Which I do not believe is the case. Because if you are in a position like myself it effectively costs to go to work, and IMO that is immoral and unethical. I think that the WPP's & FAS are actually facilitating my de-skilling and creating further problems down the road for graduates.0 -
And if there was no WPP, what would you have gained? Are you losing out in some way because it exists? It's there so that people who are on welfare can gain practical experience in jobs they wouldn't get otherwise. They offer it to people who aren't on welfare in case there are a small number of people who want to avail of the scheme even though they aren't on welfare for whatever reason.
Firstly, Yes, I do think that I am losing out because it exists. The WPP does not exist just for those receiving welfare payments, it is for anyone who is unemployed. Those who are unemployed and are not in receipt of payment are working for free, in fact it will cost them to work. I want you to realise what message this is sending to employers.
Secondly, I have seen jobs advertised on the FAS site looking for QUALIFIED Accountants & Solicitors as WPP jobs. Where is the experience being offered you refer to there??
Thirdly, how do you know that they changed the criteria to meet the demands of a small number of people who are not in receipt of payments? If it were such a small number of people, why facilitate them?This thread isn't about CE schemes, nor is it about Fás' efficiency as a whole. I think the expenses and exams scandals showed that things are not well at Fás, but this thread is about the WPP, one of the good scheme's that they came up with.
This thread is about WPP ergo it is about FAS, as you say it is a scheme that they have created. There have been accusations of firms abusing this program and I believe that the responsibility that firms meet the criteria, such as not displacing other employees by the program, lies with FAS.
Please tell me how FAS can even try to justify the outsourcing of the payroll of any company's workforce to the tax payer (There was another thread posted in Work problems where 40 WPP's have been taken on) without investigating/ screening them first to see what their current situation is regarding current employee job security?So? Are you saying that because there's been such a drop-off in demand for construction workers? If people don't want to do the courses, they won't be run, if there are sufficient numbers applying, they will be. What's the issue?
That is exactly the issue, FAS are the national training and employment authority. To quote from their site, "FÁS enhances the skills and competencies of individuals and enterprises in order for Ireland to further develop as a competitive, inclusive, knowledge-based economy"
By offering Safe Passes, I believe they are living in the dark ages. Where is the innovation in this organisation? Truly inspiring.Did you read my previous posts?
YesFirstly, the participant can report them and leave the position if they feel they're not getting relevant experience.
Report them you say, and maybe put them down as a reference on their CV too perhaps?0 -
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No, it costs you to go to work if you choose to participate in this schemeThe reason I quoted you was because you stated that persons would be better off to work whilst claiming a social welfare payment rather than minimum wage.... Which I do not believe is the case. Because if you are in a position like myself it effectively costs to go to work, and IMO that is immoral and unethical. I think that the WPP's & FAS are actually facilitating my de-skilling and creating further problems down the road for graduates.
Again, if you choose to participate in it. The main aim of the scheme is to give people a chance to earn experience they would not otherwise get, without losing their welfare entitlements. Explain to me what you are losing from this scheme existing. If it didn't exist, how would you be better off in any way?Firstly, Yes, I do think that I am losing out because it exists. The WPP does not exist just for those receiving welfare payments, it is for anyone who is unemployed. Those who are unemployed and are not in receipt of payment are working for free, in fact it will cost them to work. I want you to realise what message this is sending to employers.
What? You realise that the entire point of the scheme is to offer qualified people a chance to earn practical experience? You can qualify with a PhD in a subject, but in many industries, without practical experience outside of education, you're way down on the list of potential employeesSecondly, I have seen jobs advertised on the FAS site looking for QUALIFIED Accountants & Solicitors as WPP jobs. Where is the experience being offered you refer to there??
Why wouldn't they facilitate them? It's a voluntary scheme. If people don't want to do it, they won't, but it's a better option then sitting around all day sending out CVs that won't even get an acknowledgementThirdly, how do you know that they changed the criteria to meet the demands of a small number of people who are not in receipt of payments? If it were such a small number of people, why facilitate them?
How are they supposed to enforce it? Send out inspectors and auditors to every company that apply? Go through their books with a fine comb and see whether they can afford to pay someone instead? Then force them to employ someone? Incidentally, I'm on the WPP, and I have a person from Fás calling to the company for a progress update next week. I don't know what's involved yet, but that sounds like company screening to meThis thread is about WPP ergo it is about FAS, as you say it is a scheme that they have created. There have been accusations of firms abusing this program and I believe that the responsibility that firms meet the criteria, such as not displacing other employees by the program, lies with FAS.
Please tell me how FAS can even try to justify the outsourcing of the payroll of any company's workforce to the tax payer (There was another thread posted in Work problems where 40 WPP's have been taken on) without investigating/ screening them first to see what their current situation is regarding current employee job security?
That other thread is not exactly full of details. The OP doesn't even confirm that it is the WPP. If it is, it's quite clearly against the rules of the scheme, and should be reported to Fás. Any dismissals as a result of bringing WPP participants in would be an open-and-shut case of wrongful dismissal in court
"...enhances the skills and competencies of individuals...". Seems pretty clear to me. How is a Safe Pass course somehow living in the dark ages? Do you know what the Safe Pass actually is?That is exactly the issue, FAS are the national training and employment authority. To quote from their site, "FÁS enhances the skills and competencies of individuals and enterprises in order for Ireland to further develop as a competitive, inclusive, knowledge-based economy"
By offering Safe Passes, I believe they are living in the dark ages. Where is the innovation in this organisation? Truly inspiring.
What? I don't think you understood my point. You asked me what penalties there were for companies braching the conditions of the scheme. I pointed out that one of them is that the employee can leave the post if they feel they're not getting enough relevant experience, and report them to Fás so they won't be eligible to hire anyone else under the scheme. What does that have to do with references? Why would an ex-employee put them down as a reference for a position they left because it wasn't relevant to their career?Report them you say, and maybe put them down as a reference on their CV too perhaps?Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, dark mode, and more). Now available through your browser's extension store.
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No it is not because I am under 18, far from it..... because it is means assessed and my wife is earning just over the threshold so I have been informed by the Department of Social welfare.
The reason I quoted you was because you stated that persons would be better off to work whilst claiming a social welfare payment rather than minimum wage.... Which I do not believe is the case. Because if you are in a position like myself it effectively costs to go to work, and IMO that is immoral and unethical. I think that the WPP's & FAS are actually facilitating my de-skilling and creating further problems down the road for graduates.
You're not on minimum wage or social welfare. So it doesn't apply to you at all.
Working for free, or even paying to get skills and experience in order to get a job is pretty usual.0 -
Employers are required by law to ensure that employees on construction sites in Ireland carry Safe Pass cards.
Theres still construction going on in Ireland. Reduced yes. But it hasn't stopped. So I would assume theres still demand for safepass.0 -
Free experienced slaves here http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=11702_10&REQUEST=WWW_JS_VAC_SHOWJOBS&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_SELECT.HTM
My company has brought in a fair few WPP people now. Some have several years experience, so its not to give them experience at all. At a management meeting i was told that they are to be trained into existing staffs roles so that the existing staff will be forced to take pay cuts or just leave. Then the WPP person stays on for a fraction of the wage. If they work for noting now, they will work for near nothing if they are hired at the end.
This scheme will never work. There is too much abuse of the system already. This was always going to happen.0 -
This reminds of something I experienced something similar before in other industries. People want to work in a certain area so bad, they will work for low wages or for free in order to get into the industry. However employers realise this and just keep rotating staff to use these people. Once that happens its almost impossible to get a decent wage working in the area, and its no longer a viable career.
I hope the WPP doesn't do this. But its staggering how many jobs are now WPP.0 -
Once again, have you done anything about it? Have you reported it fo Fás? Fás have nothing to gain from this scheme being abused, it's in their best interests for it to be used as intended. All I hear are stories from people saying it's being abused, but nobody seems to care enough to report the companiesMy company has brought in a fair few WPP people now. Some have several years experience, so its not to give them experience at all. At a management meeting i was told that they are to be trained into existing staffs roles so that the existing staff will be forced to take pay cuts or just leave. Then the WPP person stays on for a fraction of the wage.
You realise that they will work for near nothing regardless of whether this scheme exists or not? What relevance does this point have? If the company wants to replace staff with lower paid workers, they will do it anyway, but the WPP doesn't change the law, they are still bound by the unfair dismissals act and other legislationIf they work for noting now, they will work for near nothing if they are hired at the end.Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, dark mode, and more). Now available through your browser's extension store.
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Once again, have you done anything about it? Have you reported it fo Fás? Fás have nothing to gain from this scheme being abused, it's in their best interests for it to be used as intended. All I hear are stories from people saying it's being abused, but nobody seems to care enough to report the companies
You realise that they will work for near nothing regardless of whether this scheme exists or not? What relevance does this point have?
If the company wants to replace staff with lower paid workers, they will do it anyway, but the WPP doesn't change the law, they are still bound by the unfair dismissals act and other legislation
Why would I bother. They arent threatening my job or pay rate. Just others peoples jobs. My boss is a chancer and will always take advantage of anything he can. This is just one of those things. Common sense should prevail in the organizers of the WPP, not a reliance on people reporting abuse.
Its not Fas who benefit. Its empolyers who get free labour who benefit. And the tax payer pays for this free benefit.
If a company wants to replace staff with lower paid workers its not as easy as you make out. There is a cost to change out one employee for another.
This scheme makes it easy. The ones coming in are willing to work cheap, and they are trained in in the job for free. There is no cost to the employer.
And no, people wont work for free for 9 months whether this scheme exists or not.
Its like everything else the current government do. Not thought out at all - or maybe it is exactly what they want. It will certainly lower wages.0 -
If a company wants to replace staff with lower paid workers its not as easy as you make out. There is a cost to change out one employee for another.
This scheme makes it easy. The ones coming in are willing to work cheap, and they are trained in in the job for free. There is no cost to the employer.
And no, people wont work for free for 9 months whether this scheme exists or not.
Its like everything else the current government do. Not thought out at all - or maybe it is exactly what they want. It will certainly lower wages.
You know there is employee protection legislation so that employer's can't just sack somebody for no reason and replace them with someone else whow ill work for cheaper? If not dismissing a worker for such an offence, they need to show evidence that redundancies are necessary, and in which case will not be able to just employ somebody else for cheaper to fill the gap as it would be breaching the whole idea of redundancy.
Fas visit the workplace twice during the placements I believe, giving both parties an opportunity to voice their experience in relation to the WPP, so an individual could easily let Fas know if they are being exploited in any way / not given enough training opportunities etc.0 -
eclectichoney wrote: »You know there is employee protection legislation so that employer's can't just sack somebody for no reason and replace them with someone else whow ill work for cheaper? If not dismissing a worker for such an offence, they need to show evidence that redundancies are necessary, and in which case will not be able to just employ somebody else for cheaper to fill the gap as it would be breaching the whole idea of redundancy.
Fas visit the workplace twice during the placements I believe, giving both parties an opportunity to voice their experience in relation to the WPP, so an individual could easily let Fas know if they are being exploited in any way / not given enough training opportunities etc.
You'll agree that if an employer wants to they can put current staff on a wage freeze, while bringing in WPP staff though. This wage freeze doesnt have to be removed, ever.
And when FAS visit they do not interview the current staff at all. Only management and the WPP workers.
Im sure there will be a huge amount of constructive dismissal claims eventually, due to the WPP scheme.0 -
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Why would I bother. They arent threatening my job or pay rate. Just others peoples jobs.
You do realise that in 6 months time when you post here how you are losing your job due to a lower paid employee being promoted that this thread is going to be quoted?
In this current climate, no ones job is safe no matter what level they are at or how indispensable they consider themselves, because at some point you were trained up to your current level so someone else can be as well and out you go.0
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