Travellers have just moved in up the road

suicide_circus · 17-06-2013 10:06PM

dark crystal wrote: »

Indeed. Travellers have been treating people in the 'settled' community like muck for years. Camping illegally on land that isn't theirs to inhabit, stealing, intimidating, littering etc.
Let's not simplify this into a 'poor misunderstood travellers' issue. Let's start listening to the experiences of the 'settled' community as well as the endless tales of discrimination and woe that Pavee Point like to spin.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but travellers themselves insist on being marginilised.

They wish (and indeed campaign)to be recognised as a seperate ethnic group. They do not like to mingle outside their own communities and often marry within their own family.

They do not see education as an important foundation for their children's future. Look up literacy levels amongst the travelling community and look up how many travellers finish secondary school or go to college.

The levels of unemployment and social welfare amongst the travelling community are huge. 84% of them are unemployed. 84% of one community do not pay tax and cost the country millions in social welfare without any intention of ever contributing anything back financially.
In the 'settled' community the unemployment rate is 13%.

Now, tell me exactly how we, the 'settled' community, marginilise travellers any more than they marginilise themselves?

Sometimes I get extremely annoyed at how the settled community get the blame for ostrasicing travellers, when they do very little to integrate themselves or contribute to the communities they become part of.

cannot thank this post enough.

there seems to be no onus on the travelling community to take any responsibility for their reputation. Tax euros, generated through the graft of members of the settled community are handed to travellers with no reciprocal contribution to society from travellers.

El Gato wrote: »

Travellers......all the rights, none of the responsibilities.

Bingo

aaakev · 17-06-2013 10:07PM

A farmer friend of mine has had them make camp on his land, asked them nicely to move on the first time and was told to **** off! He went back to his yard and filled up his slurry tank and hitched it up to the tractor and spread it all over the field an around where they were, they were not long about leaving. Second time he didnt even ask

Spidermensch · 17-06-2013 10:09PM

old hippy wrote: »

Horrible. No excuses for that. But then, no excuses for you, either.

Why shouldn't there be?

Replace Traveller with "black person" or any other minority and you see why. And that's not trying to reduce the awfulness of the attack on your gran.

But you are trying to reduce the awfulness of the attack on his Gran. Just admit it, stop with this sit-on-the-fence bull****. Stop being so patronising and Give us a break, honestly.

It's just common sense.

No, its bull****. Cut the false empathy crap. You couldn't give a ****e about his Gran.

SantryRed · 17-06-2013 10:12PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Or they are concerned about how this situation may develop going on previous bad experience? While most members of the Traveling community are not involved in dubious activities, it would take naivety of the highest order to suggest there wasn't a rogue element among them and an active one at that.

I couldn't give a flying **** if they were rogue or not. I wouldn't want them camped near my house, full stop. Had it for a couple of years and it was a ****ing joke.

josip · 17-06-2013 10:15PM

Slurry. But from our experience you'll also need to keep the shotgun visible if/when they drive the vans into your yard afterwards.

Grandeeod · 17-06-2013 10:15PM

Frank Black wrote: »

Most people on this thread, have had very few personal interactions with Travellers. So most people have formed their views based on Media coverage and 3rd hand word of mouth.

I wouldn't fully trust either of those sources, the media focus on stories the public want to hear and everyone embellishes anecdotes.
The level of abuse directed at them and is not justified considering the tiny percentage of the population they represent.

Well may I stop you in your tracks. I have plenty of experience in dealing with Travellers across a variety of spectrums. I don't want to go into too much detail as I don't want to provide clues to my identity. My first introduction to travellers apart from seeing them as I passed by their sites/camps came at the age of 12, due to my parents work situation. I was appalled by their way of life and self imposed victim complex. Yes, even aged 12 I could see this. Throughout my teenage years I experienced their culture, socialised with them and saw at first hand how they wanted to live. This involved both settled and transient travellers. Was I convinced? No way. Why? Because it was easy to see that they had absolutely no respect for authority and always played the racist and minority card at every opportunity. The want to do as they please and they want society to accommodate them. Herein lies the problem and after many years of social interaction with them, I refute this viewpoint, because they cannot back it up ever, in any conversation I have had with members of the travelling community. Pavee Point has been the worst thing to happen, because it enables the ingrained attitudes of the travelling community and uses educated members of the travelling community to simply defend the culture and blame society for the problems in a media world that simply selects which viewpoint it wants. Pavee Point failed to address the real issues and will not be moved from the social minority angle, because in reality they can't as a representative body for the travelling community. Further personal experiences have been basic failures in social skills, aggression and a total and absolute negative standpoint towards any form of authority. They do their own thing and anyone who stands in their way, pays a price. They have no respect for dogooders beyond using them to further their cause. The travelling community has now established itself in so many illegal activities, its astounding. Where once it was carpets on a market that was almost legitimate, now its pirate DVDs and other contraband. The "innocence" has gone from it. They will happily assault people and destroy property at simple street markets. The pub issue is on going. Weddings are another problem. The list goes on and on and on. I've seen a hell of a lot of it over the last 28 years.

The relationship between the settled community and the travelling community has gone backwards. The settled community's dogooder attitude has regressed even more. Some day we should really face the facts.

IrishExpat · 17-06-2013 10:16PM

MadsL wrote: »

Gitano or Roma? Just to be clear. I can help wonder if the terms are used interchangeably in Spain.

In Spain, and just now double-checked with my native Spanish room-mate, they are seen as one and the same.

Deank · 17-06-2013 10:16PM

I would really love to post my true feelings about the travelling community in here, but the last time I did I got a slap on the wrist from a Mod who likes to be far to PC.

My interactions with them have been nothing short of shocking, from threats to kill me on a couple of occasions when out walking my dog because they asked would he bite, I responded only when he's told to which they didn't take too kindly too.

I was a first hand witness to seeing a load of them coked out of their tìts destroying a pub and even punching someone in a wheelchair who couldn't get out of the way fast enough.

The reality of it is they do not want to integrate into society they want to screw the system , flout the law and use violence to intimate decent hard working people, the bleeding heart liberals can go back to their homes in idyllic suburbia where they've never seen these problems at first hand and cut their lawns.

Sure it's only our way boss. Really.....:mad:

MadsL · 17-06-2013 10:21PM

IrishExpat wrote: »

In Spain, and just now double-checked with my native Spanish room-mate, they are seen as one and the same.

Then it is possible you/they are mixing up a population that have roots in Spain (Iberian Kale people) with newer Central European Roma.

kraggy · 17-06-2013 10:21PM

I for wan unwelcome our Hiace Transit Fords.

nullzero · 17-06-2013 10:23PM

lkionm wrote: »

My little dog is hardly gonna decide one day its gonna go out hunt rabbits.

Im more on about the family dogs, not the bigger hunting dogs.

They use terriers and lurchers to hunt, some look like 'family dogs' they're all mangy auld 'dags' anyway.

MadsL · 17-06-2013 10:23PM

Deank wrote: »

My interactions with them have been nothing short of shocking, from threats to kill me on a couple of occasions when out walking my dog because they asked would he bite, I responded only when he's told to which they didn't take too kindly too.

So you were unnecessarily hostile first and got a hostile response. But it was shocking to you that they were hostile after you basically alluded that you would set the dog on them. Genius.

Dr_Brian_Cocks · 17-06-2013 10:24PM

Jason Todd wrote: »

What's wrong with 'tinker'? I thought the 'k' word was the bad one. Someone told me that tinker came from the tinkerman, people who would pass through places buying and selling tin and other metals?

My primary school teacher said they don't mind being called tinkers alright...

DanielGibbons · 17-06-2013 10:25PM

Box them in. They won't suffer being trapped.

josip · 17-06-2013 10:29PM

kraggy wrote: »

I for wan unwelcome our Hiace Transit Fords.

According to Garda friends, Transits are now preferred over Hiaces due to their greater capacity for goods.

IrishExpat · 17-06-2013 10:31PM

MadsL wrote: »

Then it is possible you/they are mixing up a population that have roots in Spain (Iberian Kale people) with newer Central European Roma.

Romani roots and their differences across countries is a thread in itself tbh. Roma in Hungary vs. Spain (for example) would have very little in common in terms of language or customs. It's a catch-all term with very few interested in reading up on their history.

Guy:Incognito · 17-06-2013 10:33PM

Since I was ignored /missed the first time, madsl, surely with your issues around planning laws alone you should be massivly against the majority of teavellers, no?

17-06-2013 10:36PM

checkyabadself wrote: »

You are literally tarring a group of people with the same brush? How exactly are you to not be taken as a bigot? The term tinker is a derogatory bigoted term and your entire post stinks of prejudice.

Grand. You move in next door to them so.

prizefighter · 17-06-2013 10:49PM

old hippy wrote: »

Treat people like muck, marginalise them - well, it's hardly surprising some of them will act up, isn't it? A vicious circle, sadly.

Phew,that's us all put in our place now! So its the general community that is to blame for the disproportionate crime levels associated with a roving minority? Its because of public perception of travellers that they commit huge levels of thefts and assaults? I suppose its down to those uppity publicans and hoteliers that they had their property destroyed and burnt out by disorderly wedding parties. Thank you old hippy, I think we all see the error of our ways now. We must open up our homes, gardens, communities and beds to the parasitic transient land thieves and we shall see them flourish!!!? I notice you've said you've interviewed several traveller groups, its hardly a realistic portrayal of their behaviour, but I fear we may have unmasked you as the Irish Ross Kemp.

Deank · 17-06-2013 10:49PM

MadsL wrote: »

So you were unnecessarily hostile first and got a hostile response. But it was shocking to you that they were hostile after you basically alluded that you would set the dog on them. Genius.

If you want a bit of context to what happened please ask for it before jumping to conclusions, I was walking the dog on my own down a straight road when 3 travellers stepped out in front of me blocking my path and were quite threatening, the asked me did the dog bite and my response without thinking was only when he is told to, tell me what would you have done, all they wanted was to take the dog off me and give me a hiding, I call it self preservation not hostility, that's the genius of it.

Depp · 17-06-2013 10:51PM

checkyabadself wrote: »

You are literally tarring a group of people with the same brush? How exactly are you to not be taken as a bigot? The term tinker is a derogatory bigoted term and your entire post stinks of prejudice.

easy to say that...you wouldn't be as comfortable on your high horse if you were in the op's situation, sick of all this bleeding heart nonsense, true there are many travelers who are decent people but 80 per cent of them that I've come into contact have all been awful human beings, there's a certain family who live just outside my local town in a house they recently built for close to a million, which they paid in cash, the husband has been in jail before for burglary and both him and his wife are on disability allowance, you might say this is one family but there are several around the area on social welfare who live well beyond the means of a typical social welfare user, the money has to come from somewhere...and 9 times out of 10 that i can see its crime, if its racist to be wary of and bear a dislike a group of people because most of the group i've come in contact have been criminals, well then i'm a big shtinkin racist. Somebody ring the guards, quick, think of the children!

MadsL · 17-06-2013 10:52PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Since I was ignored /missed the first time, madsl, surely with your issues around planning laws alone you should be massivly against the majority of teavellers, no?

Planning is one thing, the widespread vilification and hatred of a subset of society is another. Why would I be "against" a majority of a minority??? As I have already shown you only 11% of that population is illegal halted. If LAs were fulfilling their promises we could talk about planning. Given that it is next to impossible for traveller planning applications to go through, then talking about planning is a bit moot doncha think?

I was against the Dale Farm evictions because although illegally occupied, the site was suitable and could have been retrospectively granted permission, it was a junk yard not greenbelt as the council propaganda tried to suggest, and the families had put down roots and got the kids into settled education.

woodoo · 17-06-2013 10:52PM

The thought of a pile of travellers moving in next door sends a shiver through me.

Annasopra · 17-06-2013 10:53PM

DoozerT6 wrote: »

A few months ago I had a traveller come up to me where I work and ask me to write a letter of request for him because he couldn't read or write.

He wasn't in his 50's or 60's. He was only 26. And could barely even sign his name. In my eyes, after all the efforts that have been made to integrate travellers over the past couple of decades, illiteracy like that is simply down to one thing. Choice.

Indeed. Choice of government to cut traveller integration funding by 80% in the last few years.

MadsL · 17-06-2013 10:53PM

Deank wrote: »

If you want a bit of context to what happened please ask for it before jumping to conclusions, I was walking the dog on my own down a straight road when 3 travellers stepped out in front of me blocking my path and were quite threatening, the asked me did the dog bite and my response without thinking was only when he is told to, tell me what would you have done, all they wanted was to take the dog off me and give me a hiding, I call it self preservation not hostility, that's the genius of it.

Yes. That is what happened. And you are a mindreader. Well done.

MadsL · 17-06-2013 10:55PM

IrishExpat wrote: »

Romani roots and their differences across countries is a thread in itself tbh. Roma in Hungary vs. Spain (for example) would have very little in common in terms of language or customs. It's a catch-all term with very few interested in reading up on their history.

And very little interest in recognising their wider contribution to European culture. Things have gone horribly wrong in Ireland and in many parts of Europe.

El Gato · 17-06-2013 10:57PM

MadsL, can you tell me....outside of 'interviewing' traveller groups, how many times have you lived next door to a traveller family, how many times have you have a group of them move into close proximity to your home, how many times have you gone toe to toe with one?

You may well keep your defense of a minority group who wish to be identified as an ethnic minority for one reason only - to avoid responsibility

eviltwin · 17-06-2013 10:57PM

mango salsa wrote: »

Indeed. Choice of government to cut traveller integration funding by 80% in the last few years.

No loss, its a total waste of money. Laws exist to ensure settled people keep their kids in education, why is it those laws don't seem to apply to travellers?

corkplumber · 17-06-2013 10:58PM

I saw an overweight Irish traveller in the field your talking about.

It was a big fat gypsy weeding.

dr.bollocko · 17-06-2013 10:58PM

Load of infractions handed out folks.
Please report any posts which cross the line.

This is not the place for traveller bashing. Do this and get banned.

Fair warning.

Deank · 17-06-2013 11:00PM

MadsL wrote: »

Yes. That is what happened. And you are a mindreader. Well done.

Seriously what's with the attitude, I gave you context behind the situation, I know damn well what was going to unfold and I did what I had to do in order to protect myself and my dog. I didn't threaten violence at any stage, you didn't see fit to comment on the latter part of my original post where I witnessed them first hand punching the head of a poor lad in a wheelchair because he couldn't get out of their way fast enough. Very selective in what you choose to comment on aren't you.

Guy:Incognito · 17-06-2013 11:01PM

MadsL wrote: »

Planning is one thing, the widespread vilification and hatred of a subset of society is another. Why would I be "against" a majority of a minority??? As I have already shown you only 11% of that population is illegal halted. If LAs were fulfilling their promises we could talk about planning. Given that it is next to impossible for traveller planning applications to go through, then talking about planning is a bit moot doncha think?

I was against the Dale Farm evictions because although illegally occupied, the site was suitable and could have been retrospectively granted permission, it was a junk yard not greenbelt as the council propaganda tried to suggest, and the families had put down roots and got the kids into settled education.

Are any other group, minority or otherwise, given their own category for housing types or given a whole estate for themselves or do they just join the housing list and wait years like everyone else?

dodzy · 17-06-2013 11:01PM

mango salsa wrote: »

Indeed. Choice of government to cut traveller integration funding by 80% in the last few years.

Agreed, a big mistake. It should have been 100%. And I wager they're not camped outside your place either.

WinnyThePoo · 17-06-2013 11:03PM

During the mid 90 traveller lads decided to come to my town for a fun night out. They caused mayhem. They threw my brother and his friend through a shop window. Broke windows on a number of shops on main street. My sister was walking home that night with her boyfriend when they where set upon by a few lads with 2 by 4s. My sister fled as her boyfriend got pummelled to inch of his life,whilst a couple of travellers ran after her shouting "WE ARE GOING TO RAPE YOU".
My sister luckily ran into a group of friends. I was young boy at the time, but I clearly remember her boyfriend being dragged into my house by my dad and mom covered in blood, half unconscious. I had never seen so much blood.
Some of them just don't care.

Dr Turk Turkelton · 17-06-2013 11:05PM

MadsL wrote: »

Planning is one thing, the widespread vilification and hatred of a subset of society is another. Why would I be "against" a majority of a minority??? As I have already shown you only 11% of that population is illegal halted. If LAs were fulfilling their promises we could talk about planning. Given that it is next to impossible for traveller planning applications to go through, then talking about planning is a bit moot doncha think?

I was against the Dale Farm evictions because although illegally occupied, the site was suitable and could have been retrospectively granted permission, it was a junk yard not greenbelt as the council propaganda tried to suggest, and the families had put down roots and got the kids into settled education.

So basically it boils down to only settled people needing planning pemission?

MadsL · 17-06-2013 11:08PM

El Gato wrote: »

MadsL, can you tell me....outside of 'interviewing' traveller groups, how many times have you lived next door to a traveller family, how many times have you have a group of them move into close proximity to your home, how many times have you gone toe to toe with one?

You may well keep your defense of a minority group who wish to be identified as an ethnic minority for one reason only - to avoid responsibility

I lived in Smithfield, quite a few travellers used to show up there once a month for the horsefair. Never had a problem with them, but witnessed the frankly disgraceful and hostile attitudes of local businesses to them.

"Toe to Toe" ?? Seriously. And you wonder why you get an attitude in return.

MadsL · 17-06-2013 11:09PM

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

So basically it boils down to only settled people needing planning pemission?

Where did I say that?

Tigger · 17-06-2013 11:09PM

i don't like the alt lyrics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rloidlFbi4w

MadsL · 17-06-2013 11:11PM

Deank wrote: »

Seriously what's with the attitude, I gave you context behind the situation, I know damn well what was going to unfold and I did what I had to do in order to protect myself and my dog. I didn't threaten violence at any stage, you didn't see fit to comment on the latter part of my original post where I witnessed them first hand punching the head of a poor lad in a wheelchair because he couldn't get out of their way fast enough. Very selective in what you choose to comment on aren't you.

So you admit that you anticipated and reacted in a hostile manner first. So you pre-judged the situation and decided you would be hostile first. Pretty classic definition of prejudice.

Rest my case.

Now unless these were the same lads you saw punching a chap in the wheelchair, I fail to see why I need to respond to all of your posts. Are they connected in any way (other than you labelling them?)

dr.bollocko · 17-06-2013 11:16PM

We're going to leave it at that.

There are some bigoted responses made in this thread which wholly deserve bans. A read through tomorrow will result in this occurring.

That aside, there has also been some interesting discussion with fair comment made from many quarters.

Unfortunately it appears, however, that we are still not in a place where a discussion on travellers can live for long in AH.

Travellers have just moved in up the road

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