No more favours

Eru · 06-01-2009 05:07PM #1

Looking back at the various threads here I think theres two things that are evident;

A, Gardai are buying their own equipment, using their personal items for work and leaving themselves open to prosecution both civil and criminal for the sake of the government and Garda management.

B, The public dont care what problems were encountering. They want us to solve every crime while staying within the speed limit, parking in legal spaces and using no equipment at all.

So Im giving the choice here, seperate answers for civilians, other police and Gardai.

Edit: Have to bold this one, guys you cant be all three!

eroo · 06-01-2009 05:13PM

(Civilian) Gardai should stop using / buying personal items and demand proper equipment

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Looking back at the various threads here I think theres two things that are evident;

A, Gardai are buying their own equipment, using their personal items for work and leaving themselves open to prosecution both civil and criminal for the sake of the government and Garda management.

B, The public dont care what problems were encountering. They want us to solve every crime while staying within the speed limit, parking in legal spaces and using no equipment at all.

So Im giving the choice here, seperate answers for civilians, other police and Gardai.

Whats the question?:o

Fajitas! · 06-01-2009 05:14PM

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

I'm more of a part time lurker in here, so I'm not 100% sure what this thread is refering to... but...

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

B, The public dont care what problems were encountering.

I wouldn't agree with that. I know and accept that there are plenty of problems. I can imagine it's also an incredibly stressful job, plenty of paperwork along with actually being out and about.

You are, however, putting yourself in the public domain, heavy criticism is a part of that, no matter what sector you're in - Entertainment to law enforcement.

Eru · 06-01-2009 05:23PM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

eroo wrote: »

Whats the question?:o

Wait more than 30 seconds git!

Fajitas! · 06-01-2009 05:30PM

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

Aha! There's the poll!

eroo · 06-01-2009 05:31PM

(Civilian) Gardai should stop using / buying personal items and demand proper equipment

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Wait more than 30 seconds git!

Fajitas! · 06-01-2009 05:34PM

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

Right, I've replied to the poll up there, but tbh, I don't think it covers it for civilians - obviously the Gardai should have the best equipment availible for the job. Not always an easy task. And just as obviously, they Gardai shouldn't be shelling out for the gear themselves - It's up to the police force to do that... But it's up to the government to do that, and that's as much up for civilians to demand as it is An Gardai to demand.

Is it common a Garda would buy his own equipment?

eroo · 06-01-2009 05:43PM

(Civilian) Gardai should stop using / buying personal items and demand proper equipment

I voted for do the best with what they have because, in all, if you stop using your own equipment. .you are going out there worse off than before. Obviously, I wish the Gardai would get proper funding, equipment and Govt support but at this fragile time, downing your equipment and making demands probably wont yield much unfortunately.

In the RDF we are expected to buy our own surplus equipment. That's fine with me, we are an underfunded voluntary organisation. However, a full-time police organisation should not depend on it's members to fork out for standard police issue kit. So yes I want the Gardai to get proper equipment, but I'd be worried for their safety if they operated without there personal equipment, and unfortunately at a time where our Govt is borrowing 45m euro a day it might not be the best time to ask for extra investment(even though it is needed badly) as AGS probably wont get it.

deadwood · 07-01-2009 12:22AM

(Gardai) I will from here on in refuse to act without training or adequate equipment

Fajitas! wrote: »

Aha! There's the poll!

Ruen · 07-01-2009 01:04AM

I believe that Gardai should be provided with the best equipment and training available.
I am shocked to see that blue flu is even an option, threatening the security of the state for personal gain yet again, would only serve to undermine the publics confidence in An Garda Siochana, it is disgusting and shows the complete lack of respect some Gardai still have for their duties and responsibilities.

CharlieCroker · 07-01-2009 02:06AM

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

Ruen wrote: »

threatening the security of the state for personal gain.

Personal gain? sorry for being greedy but not nice if some nutter is coming at you with a needle or even if your just searching an addict and your not wearing stab gloves!!!!

pvt.joker · 07-01-2009 02:15AM

(Gardai) I will from here on in refuse to act without training or adequate equipment

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Personal gain? sorry for being greedy but not nice if some nutter is coming at you with a needle or even if your just searching an addict and your not wearing stab gloves!!!!

Now now Charlie your just being greedy, sure weren't you supplied with grand latex sanitary gloves :pac::D

Ruen · 07-01-2009 02:21AM

There will always be better equipment to be had so the Gardai will have to work with what they've got at the time as opposed to striking illegally

CharlieCroker · 07-01-2009 02:24AM

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

pvt.joker wrote: »

Now now Charlie your just being greedy, sure weren't you supplied with grand latex sanitary gloves :pac::D

:D:D
The red will show up nicely against the blue of the glove!!!!

TheNog · 07-01-2009 04:17AM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

I dont think there is any need for a blue flu at this point in time. Our backs are not totally against the wall. The last blue flu was the result of years of total neglect and this neglect also included pay.

If Gardai were to stop using their own equipment for work who comes out the worst of it?

Gardai will because we rely on our equipment to be safe and stay safe. At the end of every shift I would like to go home to my kids but if Im in a bad situation and my radio doesnt work .... well you guess the rest

Also for people outside of the job it was reported on December's Review mag that on average 2 Gardai were assaulted every day in 2008.

Thoie · 07-01-2009 07:36AM

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

A, Gardai are buying their own equipment, using their personal items for work and leaving themselves open to prosecution both civil and criminal for the sake of the government and Garda management.

Sorry, I haven't read all the other threads, but what kind of personal items/equipment are we talking about here? Stab gloves have been mentioned in this thread, what other stuff would gardai regularly buy for themselves?

TheNog · 07-01-2009 09:48AM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

- Using our own mobile phones to call the station (using our own money) when the radios dont work and/or not secure,
- anti stab gloves,
- handcuffs (spare ones),
- torches,
- boots,
- laptops (we have 1 computer between 4 of us on my unit for files),
- windscreen wash for the patrol car (they wont fork out €2 for it and we cant see out the window) and
- I have recently heard of guards in one station buying their own paper for files, charge sheets etc cos there is a shortage. And thats a station in Dublin (actually Karlitos local station)

Did I miss anything?

Paulzx · 07-01-2009 10:15AM

The situation with Gardai using their own mobile phones at cost to themselves for official Garda business is always something that has amazed me.It seems to be a practice that has allowed to become a normal part of procedure due to the inability of the state to provide an adequate communications syatem. My opinion, looking from the outside, is that the willingness of Gardai to use their own phone has in fact helped perpetuate the inadequate radio syatem available to you.

By creating an unofficial communications system you have removed responsibility from the authorities to provide you with a functioning official one. This is not a criticism of the Garda on the ground who has no other way of contacting his station. I understand the need to call for assistance etc. in a hurry.

I deal with Gardai constantly in work and every scene i attend with them they are using their own phones to ring the station etc. As a body you should not use your phones for comms unless its absolutely vital. Ringing the station for run of the mill policing queries should stop. If it means you can't get info for traffic stops etc. so be it.

When the whole system falls down maybe your management will finally sit up and take notice.

What i propose is probably too simplistic and will never happen but i think the situation as it stands will continue unless you make some sort of stand.

We have problems with our radio comms but they definetly seem to function much smoother than the Gardai. It is a very rare situation where you will see a DFB member using his own phone to contact our control as there is generally no need.

Eru · 07-01-2009 10:20AM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

TheNog wrote: »

- Using our own mobile phones to call the station (using our own money) when the radios dont work and/or not secure,
- anti stab gloves,
- handcuffs (spare ones),
- torches,
- boots,
- laptops (we have 1 computer between 4 of us on my unit for files),
- windscreen wash for the patrol car (they wont fork out €2 for it and we cant see out the window) and
- I have recently heard of guards in one station buying their own paper for files, charge sheets etc cos there is a shortage. And thats a station in Dublin (actually Karlitos local station)

Did I miss anything?

Indeed, were currently using our own laptops or home PC's to do up files and print them as the station has no longer got a working word machine or printer. My office no longer has a working pulse machine and we were never issued a pulse printer in the first place. Also dont forget the minor little things that while not essential to everyone are damn handy such as a uv light to check documents, batteries for your torch and even stationary for gods sake.

I see 1 person is opposed to blue flu, well I wonder how long he would last being told to put up and shut up with no right to strike. I think some people fought for that at some point in history and isnt there a document that mentions it?

djtechnics1210 · 07-01-2009 10:35AM

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

I feel a dose of flu coming on:D

TheNog · 07-01-2009 10:55AM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

I am closing this thread for a few minutes cos a problem has just been pointed out to me so I need to fix it.

Some users will be taking a short holiday from this forum when Im finished

TheNog · 07-01-2009 11:07AM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

Ok thread back open again.

It appears three posters chose multiple choices in the poll and so mispresenting the poll figures. The options taken by these posters were total polar opposites so the banning stick is out.

Winston82
Oeb
Tosh65

are all taking a 1 week holiday from us.

Heres hoping we dont get a postcard.

Thanks for your patience

Nog

TheNog · 07-01-2009 11:51AM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

TheNog wrote: »

Ok thread back open again.

It appears three posters chose multiple choices in the poll and so mispresenting the poll figures. The options taken by these posters were total polar opposites so the banning stick is out.

Winston82
Oeb
Tosh65

are all taking a 1 week holiday from us.

Heres hoping we dont get a postcard.

Thanks for your patience

Nog

Oeb has been unbanned and his choices restored after giving a reasonable
explanation.

Damned him and his persuasive way!!! :pac:

The others still stand

parsi · 07-01-2009 11:55AM

Paulzx wrote: »

The situation with Gardai using their own mobile phones at cost to themselves for official Garda business is always something that has amazed me.It seems to be a practice that has allowed to become a normal part of procedure due to the inability of the state to provide an adequate communications syatem. My opinion, looking from the outside, is that the willingness of Gardai to use their own phone has in fact helped perpetuate the inadequate radio syatem available to you.

By creating an unofficial communications system you have removed responsibility from the authorities to provide you with a functioning official one. This is not a criticism of the Garda on the ground who has no other way of contacting his station. I understand the need to call for assistance etc. in a hurry.

I deal with Gardai constantly in work and every scene i attend with them they are using their own phones to ring the station etc. As a body you should not use your phones for comms unless its absolutely vital. Ringing the station for run of the mill policing queries should stop. If it means you can't get info for traffic stops etc. so be it.

When the whole system falls down maybe your management will finally sit up and take notice.

I agree with your reasoning.

However if someone has a strong work ethic then they are unlikely to be able to just "put-up" with what they have - the top-brass do seem to work in the knowledge that if there is a problem it's Garda Joe who'll get dumped on.

Another issue is merging what the public wants with what the public wants to pay. These are fairly divergent.

oeb · 07-01-2009 12:04PM

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

TheNog wrote: »

Oeb has been unbanned and his choices restored after giving a reasonable
explanation.

Damned him and his persuasive way!!! :pac:

The others still stand

I suppose if it raises questions, it might be best if I explain my reasoning to anyone else here who might be wondering.

I chose the option "(Civilian) Gardai should stop using / buying personal items and demand proper equipment" as my main choice, because it is absolutly insane that you should have to be out of pocket for carrying out your normal work duties. I know what you do is not 'Just a job' but I find it difficult to think of anyone, in any other industry who has to do anything like this. Your employer (the government in your case) is required to provide you with the equipment you need to carry out your job. (Unless of course it is specified somewhere in your contracts that you have to use your own stuff, but I find that unlikely).

I also choose the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" option, because it is true. If you do it, you are out of pocket, you may get in trouble for useing sub-standard or inappropriate equipment. Of course if you don't, you get Irelands vast army of whiners complaining that you are not doing your job properly and going on about how you are trying to hold the country to ransom. We both know that's untrue, but we both know it would be said anyway.

(The poll was multi-choice when I posted last night, hence how I selected multiple options).

kerry4sam · 07-01-2009 12:38PM

(Civilian) Gardai should stop using / buying personal items and demand proper equipment

Good thread Karlitosway ... I think it’s one aspect of the job that doesn’t get mentioned (clearly less often that it should be). I think it’s good to highlight the differing circumstances the gardai enocunter but as to whether anything will be done about this, I honestly doubt. If Gardaì were finding themselves buying their own necessary equipment during the so-called boom-times, I don’t see how anything will be done now that the powers that be are tightening the strings even further.

Now as for the public not caring about the problems Gardaì encounter - I do believe that is the case for some, but not all. I believe that if their were a greater awareness about the work that the Gardaì do and more community-orientated work, people might feel all the more connected. For some people down my neck of the woods, all they care about if just knowing the Gardaì are actually there and that's enough for them.

Paulzx · 07-01-2009 12:43PM

TheNog wrote: »

Oeb has been unbanned and his choices restored after giving a reasonable
explanation.

Jesus. The mods round here are turning into softees. Since when was a reasonable explanation enough for an unbanning!!!:)

Lets all run amok, we've a cushy mod:eek:

07-01-2009 01:01PM

kerry4sam wrote: »

Now as for the public not caring about the problems Gardaì encounter - I do
believe that is the case for some, but not all. I believe that if their were a greater awareness about the work that the Gardaì do and more community-orientated work, people might feel all the more connected. For some people down my neck of the woods, all they care about if just knowing the Gardaì are actually there and that's enough for them.

I feel there is a widening gap between gardai and the public

Years ago, the local gardai lived in the community, got involved in football, drank in local pubs, kids went to local school, etc

People knew the local gardai, and vice versa and there was a friendly, open relationship for the most part

Now I don't know who the local gardai are, where they come from, etc, bar one who has been there years and lives locally.

Most of the new faces in the fast few years commute from 20/30 miles away and go back again in the evenings.

I was stopped at a checkpoint recently and asked the garda where he was based at, making small talk, etc and he told me that it was no concern of mine!! WTF!

On topic, all you have to observe is the run down shacks some garda stations are to know that it must be chaos inside

TheNog · 07-01-2009 03:05PM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

Paulzx wrote: »

Jesus. The mods round here are turning into softees. Since when was a reasonable explanation enough for an unbanning!!!:)

Lets all run amok, we've a cushy mod:eek:

I know but Oeb is so dreamy. He clicks his fingers and I like, go all gooey and stuff :pac:

*dont think that about you though* ::p

salonfire wrote: »

I feel there is a widening gap between gardai and the public

Years ago, the local gardai lived in the community, got involved in football, drank in local pubs, kids went to local school, etc

People knew the local gardai, and vice versa and there was a friendly, open relationship for the most part

Now I don't know who the local gardai are, where they come from, etc, bar one who has been there years and lives locally.

Most of the new faces in the fast few years commute from 20/30 miles away and go back again in the evenings.

I was stopped at a checkpoint recently and asked the garda where he was based at, making small talk, etc and he told me that it was no concern of mine!! WTF!

On topic, all you have to observe is the run down shacks some garda stations are to know that it must be chaos inside

We talked about this a while ago in our station and came up with a couple of reasons wy this is not happening. I'll take me as an example:

When I left the college and placed in my station 30 miles away I was done so even though the town I live in, I have only lived here for 2 yrs and have no relations within 50 miles of me

Secondly despite me being careful and not telling everyone what I worked at (some neighbours do know cos they see me getting into my car) I have recently 3 falt tyres in my car (havent had one in three years previously) from nails and screws, my radio aerial broken off twice and my fence damaged twice. Only one of my neighbours are has the same problem and he is in the Air Corp. His uniform has been mistaken in the past for being a Garda because of it.

Can you imagine what my life would be like if the scrotes I see in work knew where I lived? At the end of the day it is a job and I would like to keep my partner and kids lives out of it as much as possible.

oeb · 07-01-2009 03:22PM

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

TheNog wrote: »

I know but Oeb is so dreamy. He clicks his fingers and I like, go all gooey and stuff :pac:

*dont think that about you though* ::p

It's always a good thing to note whenever anyone is convinced of anything by me, that I am a magician and a hypnotist (seriously). So it's ok to blame it all on me

TheNog wrote: »

We talked about this a while ago in our station and came up with a couple of reasons wy this is not happening. I'll take me as an example:

When I left the college and placed in my station 30 miles away I was done so even though the town I live in, I have only lived here for 2 yrs and have no relations within 50 miles of me

Secondly despite me being careful and not telling everyone what I worked at (some neighbours do know cos they see me getting into my car) I have recently 3 falt tyres in my car (havent had one in three years previously) from nails and screws, my radio aerial broken off twice and my fence damaged twice. Only one of my neighbours are has the same problem and he is in the Air Corp. His uniform has been mistaken in the past for being a Garda because of it.

Can you imagine what my life would be like if the scrotes I see in work knew where I lived? At the end of the day it is a job and I would like to keep my partner and kids lives out of it as much as possible.

Seriously lads, I dunno how ye can put up with that kind of crap and still get up and go to work in the morning. The lot of you are stronger (resolve wise anyway) men than I am.

Mind you, those are the same scrotes that when their house gets broken into, or their car gets nicked, or they see you struck with the 'flu' they will be whining about how you should be out there catching more criminals.

Hobart · 07-01-2009 03:59PM

I'm not a Guard, although I do have some interaction with them on a day to day basis, so a couple of stupid questions for a start.

Is a mobile phone a part of your standard equipment?
Is a stab vest a part of your standard equipment?

TheNog wrote: »

When I left the college and placed in my station 30 miles away I was done so even though the town I live in, I have only lived here for 2 yrs and have no relations within 50 miles of me

No smartness intended, but did you not expect this as part and parcel of your job placement?

Secondly despite me being careful and not telling everyone what I worked at (some neighbours do know cos they see me getting into my car) I have recently 3 falt tyres in my car (havent had one in three years previously) from nails and screws, my radio aerial broken off twice and my fence damaged twice.

With the utmost respect, and without prejudice to you, have you tried reporting these offences to your local Guards? I suspect not. (and I apologise if I am to be corrected) . But my experience of small crimes, such as those detailed above by you, have been treated, albeit with the utmost curiosity by Guards, with utter indifference by them. I can actually appreciate why, but I just don't understand it.

Only one of my neighbours are has the same problem and he is in the Air Corp. His uniform has been mistaken in the past for being a Garda because of it.

Can you imagine what my life would be like if the scrotes I see in work knew where I lived? At the end of the day it is a job and I would like to keep my partner and kids lives out of it as much as possible.

No person should have this type of abuse because of the job they do, in fact, I believe that those in the ES should be afforded the protection/respect of their neighbors/locals when at home.

No more favours

How should Gardai operate? 70 votes

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