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Should the government pay for sex-change operations?

  • 26-07-2010 11:51AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭


    Inspired by a Labour councillor.
    http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2010/jul/25/call-for-hse-to-axe-sex-change-ops-as-child-denied/
    Call for HSE to axe sex-change ops as child denied aid
    Conor McMorrow, Political Correspondent

    Colm Keaveney: called for HSE reviewThe HSE should not pay for public patients to undergo sex-change operations abroad when cuts are being made to frontline services for children, a Labour Party councillor hass claimed.

    Colm Keaveney, from Tuam in east Galway, has called for a review of all HSE expenditure after a child in his area was denied funding for essential hearing-aid implants. His comments come in the wake of recent reports that the HSE has paid for at least 22 public patients to undergo sex-change operations over the past decade at a cost of around of €63,000 for female-to-male operations and €30,000 for male-to-female procedures.

    "When allocating scarce resources, we must establish what actually delivers best value for society and the individual," he said.

    "Depriving children of necessary aids and appliances at this point in their life will have a devastating social outcome in later years when compared to some very expensive procedures being paid for by the taxpayer.

    "While I understand this may be offensive to transgender people, I would ask them to look at this through the eyes of a parent and try to empathise with how they feel about their child's wellbeing.

    "Given the dire straits the country finds itself in, it is vital that we focus government spending on areas that will deliver positive results for our society in the long run."

    A spokeswoman for the Transgender Equality Network Ireland said: "I agree that it is regretful that the HSE is making cutbacks in service provision [but] transgender people are part of Irish society and are also taxpayers so they are entitled to access healthcare appropriate to their specific needs, just like other people living in Ireland."

    She added that "the government is now in the process of working on legislation that will finally recognise the legal status of transgender people in Ireland."

    It was recently reported that the HSE is funding sex-change operations under the Treatment Abroad schemes, where the HSE pays for the treatment in another EU country when it cannot be obtained in Ireland. Keaveney was speaking after being contacted by parents of a child with hearing difficulties.

    The seven-year-old child, who has 35% hearing loss in both ears, may have to be taken out of mainstream education as the HSE has refused to fund hearing-aid implants at a total cost of €1,600 for the child.

    A spokeswoman for the HSE said the organisation does not comment on individual cases.

    I'm going to add a poll to this.

    This proposal gives me some trouble.
    On the one hand, I think the state should pay for sex-changes - they are a medical issue.
    On the other hand, I think the deaf kid should take priority - if you have been waiting 20 years, you can wait another month or two; the child will have to leave school (taking the report on face value).

    The problem is, you will, especially in the Recession, always have more deserving candidates for the funds than TSs wanting to changeover.

    Realistically, we are all adults here, we all know that resources are limited and the government cannot pay for everything; very often it is an either-or situation, and a choice must be made.

    Should the government pay for sex-change operations? 390 votes

    Yes. These people are sick and need immediate help.
    0% 0 votes
    Yes but tbh, deaf kids are waaaaay cuter.
    10% 39 votes
    No, unless there happens to be extra money and they really are broke.
    5% 21 votes
    No. Never.
    8% 33 votes
    Sex changes should be banned.
    70% 274 votes
    Atari Jaguarra.
    5% 23 votes
    Tagged:


«13456716

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Should we pay for the cervical cancer vaccine? No, but we'll give this guy a sex change op...

    There's a lot more important life changing ops and stuff that need to be done!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,104 ✭✭✭easyeason3


    So who pays for the reverse operation if the patient changes their mind?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    easyeason3 wrote: »
    So who pays for the reverse operation if the patient changes their mind?

    The opposition.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭chin_grin


    "If I don't get this operation, I could die."

    vs

    "If I don't get this operation, I'm living a lie/not being true to myself."

    Yeah, I can see which is more important.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,104 ✭✭✭easyeason3


    Can you currently get a breast enlargement or breast reduction operation in Ireland that is paid for by the HSE?
    Or a tummy tuck?
    Or excess skin removal?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭Brendog


    Should the Government pay for ...

    breast enlargements?
    Tummy tucks?
    Face lifts?
    Liposucktion?
    nose jobs?
    Botox?
    Ear lifts?



    NO!





    Why should hard working people who have already gotten 20% pay cuts have to fork out for someones operation just because they want to be happy....

    We're not happy about having to pay for it
    You REALLY want it?

    THEN YOU ****ING WORK FOR IT LIKE ANY NORMAL PERSON!!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    It's a cosmetic operation, not a life / death issue. Government should have no responsiblity over it at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,952 ✭✭✭Lando Griffin


    easyeason3 wrote: »
    So who pays for the reverse operation if the patient changes their mind?

    An Bord Snip?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭Viper_JB


    Brendog wrote: »
    Should the Government pay for ...

    breast enlargements?
    Tummy tucks?
    Face lifts?
    Liposucktion?
    nose jobs?
    Botox?
    Ear lifts?






    NO!

    Hell, they should be paying for peoples teeth and they're not even doing that at the moment - and when I say them I mean us, it's our money, they're only the ones who squander it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    I watched a show about it on Discovery one day and it was weird... A guy got a sex change to become a girl, and then became a lesbian. A girl got a sex change to become a guy, and then became gay. Would it not have been easier to stay as they were as they were after the opposite sex anyway?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    after a child in his area was denied funding for essential hearing-aid implants.

    They denied this child that and paid for sex changes :mad:
    Absolutely not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    steve06 wrote: »
    I watched a show about it on Discovery one day and it was weird... A guy got a sex change to become a girl, and then became a lesbian. A girl got a sex change to become a guy, and then became gay. Would it not have been easier to stay as they were as they were after the opposite sex anyway?

    because how you feel in your own body has nothing to do with who you're attracted to!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    It depends on the subject to be honest - I would not pay for Brian Cowen to become a chick - ever.

    I would, however, be prepared to pay for Mary Harney to become a man - I think it would be worth it just to remove the possibility that I may, someday end up feeling really uncomfortable at a supermarket checkout if she were to be infront of me paying for a box of super flow tampons:eek:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    To the people going on about life-or-death: perhaps try reading the OP's post. I've yet to hear - arf, arf - of someone dying from "not hearing".

    Well, there is traffic I suppose...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    steve06 wrote: »
    I watched a show about it on Discovery one day and it was weird... A guy got a sex change to become a girl, and then became a lesbian. A girl got a sex change to become a guy, and then became gay. Would it not have been easier to stay as they were as they were after the opposite sex anyway?


    Getting a sex change is not related to sexuality at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    ...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    sligopark wrote: »
    wasn't there some word that the majority of sex change operations paid for the state were not for Irish citizens?

    Did ou just make that up for the sake of inciting ire or do you have a link?

    Just asking:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Absolutely not.
    That money needs to be put away for when Harney gets so fat that she needs to have the side wall of her house knocked down, so that she can be removed and airlifted to the zoo hospital.

    And probably keep a bit to treat future cervical cancer victims. They might not be able to get health insurance because of the lack of a vaccine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    Did ou just make that up for the sake of inciting ire or do you have a link?

    Just asking:rolleyes:

    no not trying to incite ire but did read something like this - did a quick google there and found nothing so feel free to disregard


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    I think they should pay for the sex change ops, and on that note i am going to come out and admit, i've been living a lie.

    I've never told anyone this before, but i'm a rich person in a poor persons body. I shall be canvassing my local TD to see if i can get funding so i no longer live this lie. I've always preferred the taste of champagne to Dutch Gold, i tried to live the Dutch Gold lifestyle but i've always known it wasn't me.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    dahamsta wrote: »
    To the people going on about life-or-death: perhaps try reading the OP's post. I've yet to hear - arf, arf - of someone dying from "not hearing".

    Well, there is traffic I suppose...

    The issue in the report is an example of required operations that have been held back due to lack of funding while someone else had been funded for a cosmetic issue.

    My response as I'm sure along with the others, was a generalised comment in regards to acknowledging that...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    sligopark wrote: »
    no not trying to incite ire but did read something like this - did a quick google there and found nothing so feel free to disregard

    Was it perhaps in an issue of "xenophobe monthly" - it's kind of like the US courtroom drama approach -

    "you're a muderer sir, aren't you"

    "objection your honour"

    "sustained"

    "ok, sorry - disregard ... *teeheehee*"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    My initial reaction is to say no, however, I don't know a whole lot about the issues at stake & am open to persuasion or to listen to any good arguments to the contrary.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    Was it perhaps in an issue of "xenophobe monthly" - it's kind of like the US courtroom drama approach -

    "you're a muderer sir, aren't you"

    "objection your honour"

    "sustained"

    "ok, sorry - disregard ... *teeheehee*"


    there's a xenophobe monthly ?

    but fair enough counter - post edited


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    chin_grin wrote: »
    "If I don't get this operation, I could die."

    vs

    "If I don't get this operation, I'm living a lie/not being true to myself."

    Yeah, I can see which is more important.

    No - This isn't an either/or situation

    "If I don't get this operation, I will suffer from serious problems down the line with being deaf"

    vs

    "If I don't get this operation, I might commit suicide and suffer from serious mental health problems"

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    I don't think so. Certainly not when other areas are so underfunded.

    Perhaps some kind of loan system could be devised for elective. cosmetic (as in not procedures that save lives) procedures like this


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I didn't vote in the poll cause none of the options make sense - from my point of view yes the government should as it's a human rights issue

    This blog post explains it much more eloquently then I could

    http://www.humanrights.ie/index.php/2010/07/26/gender-reassignment-surgery-limited-resources-and-positive-results-for-society/

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭Richard Noggin


    Brendog wrote: »
    Should the Government pay for ...

    breast enlargements?
    Tummy tucks?
    Face lifts?
    Liposucktion?
    nose jobs?
    Botox?
    Ear lifts?



    NO!





    Why should hard working people who have already gotten 20% pay cuts have to fork out for someones operation just because they want to be happy....

    We're not happy about having to pay for it
    You REALLY want it?

    THEN YOU ****ING WORK FOR IT LIKE ANY NORMAL PERSON!!

    If they paid for breast enlargements,you wouldn't hear me complaining.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭chin_grin


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    No - This isn't an either/or situation

    "If I don't get this operation, I will suffer from serious problems down the line with being deaf"

    vs

    "If I don't get this operation, I might commit suicide and suffer from serious mental health problems"

    It really is. We're given two choices. That's a perfect either/or for me.

    And when it comes to standards of living, I think increasing it for someone who's more worthy of it* rather than it being solely a vanity boost.

    I'm not disregarding the fact that, yes those who don't think they belong to their own bodies will suffer some mental health issues. But that's where counselling comes in to play. Not a 'quick fix' operation.


    * only for the argument for standard of living. This is not a homophobic EDIT or "transphobic" comment


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    chin_grin wrote: »
    It really is. We're given two choices. That's a perfect either/or for me.

    And when it comes to standards of living, I think increasing it for someone who's more worthy of it* rather than it being solely a vanity boost.

    I'm not disregarding the fact that, yes those who don't think they belong to their own bodies will suffer some mental health issues. But that's where counselling comes in to play. Not a 'quick fix' operation.


    * only for the argument for standard of living. This is not a homophobic comment

    Agreed -it's not a homophobic comment - it's a transphobic comment to say that people need their operations for the sole purposes of a vanity boost and that they are not worthy of them

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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