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ATH3: The first verbal bitchslap of 08'

  • 02-01-2008 02:58PM
    #1
    Bounty Hunter
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,105 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    after a couple of weeks absence due to my fubar computer:( im back and with me is the return of Around The Horn to boards.ie

    ATH1 - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055176157
    ATH2 - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055187277

    Around The Horn(ATH) is an american show on ESPN where a number of panelists/experts make arguments an a certain topic. The host awards points for each response depending on how well argued their point is, not neccesarily if he agrees with their point (although that helps) but how well they back up their argument. Obviously the winner is the person with the highest number of points at the end of the show. This format should work quite well here if anyone is interested, afterall there are a number of people here who like to think of themselves as experts on all things wrestling related, here is a chance to prove it.

    I will post the first of 5 topics tommorow and you will have two days before round two (so three days now to decide on participation and enter your first answer). If you need info on the rules check the above linkes to the previous threads, i will also post a brief rundown prior to round 1 beginning.

    Former Champs are Vince135792003 & Rosie1977, will we have a two time champ or will a new contender emerge


«13456

Comments

  • #2
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    Count me in this time


  • #3
    Bounty Hunter
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,105 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    nice hope to get more of the established posters giving it a try and now with Fozzy in its more likely... who wouldent want to beat a wrestling mod to being champion.


  • #4
    Rjd2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,276 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    I shall attempt this as well.


  • #5
    Bounty Hunter
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,105 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    I said id post a brief rundown of the rules before Rd1 starts (Thursday) so....

    I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within 48hrs (before the next round begins), take care while making your responses however as other contestants can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

    *you can only counter an arguement once, although you can counter as many different peoples arguements as much as you want (but only once each). if someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them plus someone else might continue to question it in your place.

    *You can use the same answer as a previous poster if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

    each poster is marked out of 20 each round for a total of five rounds. If you miss a round (it happens) you can still submit an answer to that rounds question however because you missed the deadline in between rounds your late answer will only be marked out of 10.

    thats essentially all rules, it should be fairly straightforward but if you are still unsure on anything refer to the links in my first post and see how it worked previously.


  • #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm new here... But I'd be happy to kick their asses at having a logical debate.


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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    in your first link, "a-hole" posted this:



    "we can safely state HBK is the most consistent performer in the history of WWE/F if you look at his 02-07 days they consist of the eppic fude agenst hhh his return at sumerslam was the best raw match of the year and continuing to carry hhh through his inguary to an imence 2outa3 match was amesing then to have the match of mania with y2j blue everybody away then raws wrighting got stagnent for a few munths but he still managed to elevate ortan to ledgand killer while having a fantastic match with flair skip to surviver series and the match that turned into a 3on1 match for stonecold blue everyone away. skip on to wm and backlash in brilent tripple treaths with benoit and hhh he showed how good he was raw matches with jbl and cena before survivor series showed how good he was. till today where he pulls fantastic matches out of ortan (never mind the ending)
    then we go back to the ninthys where he dominated 80% of ppvs pulling fantastic matches out of vader deasal and sid with his everlasting and unbeliving fude with the undertaker, his 1hour+ match with breat and folys best match at mind games.
    then we go back to the rockers we have it hard to find a more consistant worker than hbk over so many years"



    So if I'm gonna take part in this, can you guys at least spell-check your replies? No offence to a-hole, but i mean.. ortan? blue people away? breat? deasal? thats just... yeah...


    Also, I don't wana sound too mature before whippin' ass, but can you guys also establish a difference between fact and opinion?


    Kane is the best wrestler on the roster and his match with khali at mania was the best of 07.


    Thats an opinion (not a believable one, but an opinion all the same) not a fact.


  • #8
    RichieLawlor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭RichieLawlor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    in your first link, "a-hole" posted this:



    "we can safely state HBK is the most consistent performer in the history of WWE/F if you look at his 02-07 days they consist of the eppic fude agenst hhh his return at sumerslam was the best raw match of the year and continuing to carry hhh through his inguary to an imence 2outa3 match was amesing then to have the match of mania with y2j blue everybody away then raws wrighting got stagnent for a few munths but he still managed to elevate ortan to ledgand killer while having a fantastic match with flair skip to surviver series and the match that turned into a 3on1 match for stonecold blue everyone away. skip on to wm and backlash in brilent tripple treaths with benoit and hhh he showed how good he was raw matches with jbl and cena before survivor series showed how good he was. till today where he pulls fantastic matches out of ortan (never mind the ending)
    then we go back to the ninthys where he dominated 80% of ppvs pulling fantastic matches out of vader deasal and sid with his everlasting and unbeliving fude with the undertaker, his 1hour+ match with breat and folys best match at mind games.
    then we go back to the rockers we have it hard to find a more consistant worker than hbk over so many years"



    So if I'm gonna take part in this, can you guys at least spell-check your replies? No offence to a-hole, but i mean.. ortan? blue people away? breat? deasal? thats just... yeah...


    Also, I don't wana sound too mature before whippin' ass, but can you guys also establish a difference between fact and opinion?


    Kane is the best wrestler on the roster and his match with khali at mania was the best of 07.


    Thats an opinion (not a believable one, but an opinion all the same) not a fact.

    Im lookin forward to having a go at this guy:D:D


  • #9
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Deleted User wrote: »
    in your first link, "a-hole" posted this:



    "we can safely state HBK is the most consistent performer in the history of WWE/F if you look at his 02-07 days they consist of the eppic fude agenst hhh his return at sumerslam was the best raw match of the year and continuing to carry hhh through his inguary to an imence 2outa3 match was amesing then to have the match of mania with y2j blue everybody away then raws wrighting got stagnent for a few munths but he still managed to elevate ortan to ledgand killer while having a fantastic match with flair skip to surviver series and the match that turned into a 3on1 match for stonecold blue everyone away. skip on to wm and backlash in brilent tripple treaths with benoit and hhh he showed how good he was raw matches with jbl and cena before survivor series showed how good he was. till today where he pulls fantastic matches out of ortan (never mind the ending)
    then we go back to the ninthys where he dominated 80% of ppvs pulling fantastic matches out of vader deasal and sid with his everlasting and unbeliving fude with the undertaker, his 1hour+ match with breat and folys best match at mind games.
    then we go back to the rockers we have it hard to find a more consistant worker than hbk over so many years"



    So if I'm gonna take part in this, can you guys at least spell-check your replies? No offence to a-hole, but i mean.. ortan? blue people away? breat? deasal? thats just... yeah...


    Also, I don't wana sound too mature before whippin' ass, but can you guys also establish a difference between fact and opinion?


    Kane is the best wrestler on the roster and his match with khali at mania was the best of 07.


    Thats an opinion (not a believable one, but an opinion all the same) not a fact.

    prepare to be eaten alive:D


  • #10
    Cactus Col
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭Cactus Col


    I'm gonna join in for this one!

    I make no promises for success, but, like Matt Hardy (one of my favourite wrestlers of the year) I'll do my best for the fans


  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd like to dedicate this to you guys...

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dntsig8RcAA


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  • #12
    Bubs101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Bubs101


    Deleted User wrote: »
    in your first link, "a-hole" posted this:



    "we can safely state HBK is the most consistent performer in the history of WWE/F if you look at his 02-07 days they consist of the eppic fude agenst hhh his return at sumerslam was the best raw match of the year and continuing to carry hhh through his inguary to an imence 2outa3 match was amesing then to have the match of mania with y2j blue everybody away then raws wrighting got stagnent for a few munths but he still managed to elevate ortan to ledgand killer while having a fantastic match with flair skip to surviver series and the match that turned into a 3on1 match for stonecold blue everyone away. skip on to wm and backlash in brilent tripple treaths with benoit and hhh he showed how good he was raw matches with jbl and cena before survivor series showed how good he was. till today where he pulls fantastic matches out of ortan (never mind the ending)
    then we go back to the ninthys where he dominated 80% of ppvs pulling fantastic matches out of vader deasal and sid with his everlasting and unbeliving fude with the undertaker, his 1hour+ match with breat and folys best match at mind games.
    then we go back to the rockers we have it hard to find a more consistant worker than hbk over so many years"



    So if I'm gonna take part in this, can you guys at least spell-check your replies? No offence to a-hole, but i mean.. ortan? blue people away? breat? deasal? thats just... yeah...


    Also, I don't wana sound too mature before whippin' ass, but can you guys also establish a difference between fact and opinion?


    Kane is the best wrestler on the roster and his match with khali at mania was the best of 07.


    Thats an opinion (not a believable one, but an opinion all the same) not a fact.

    Reality Check


  • #13
    Bounty Hunter
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,105 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    Alright here we go
    ----

    ATH:Round 1
    Q.There are very few managers in the WWE at the moment, but if you had the opportunity to give a Wrestler a manager, which Wrestler would you pick? and who would you get to manage them? Also why would a manager and this one in particular be of such benefit to your chosen superstar?

    ----

    good luck to all and welcome to all the new competitors/posters.


  • #14
    Charlie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,819 ✭✭✭Charlie


    Hey BH,

    You can count me in for this one, but I want to clarify something. Presumably the superstar must be a current member of the wwe roster, but does the manager?


  • #15
    Bounty Hunter
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,105 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    Hey CmH

    superstar should be a current member of the roster, manager however doesent have to be.


  • #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OK, Interesting question.


    Before i scanned over the WWE roster I kinda knew who i was going to pick, and i stick by him.

    Someone who has been getting pushed to the bottom rungs of the roster slowly over the past while and has recently been "demoted" to ECW.. My Superstar in distress would have to be none other than Shelton Benjamin.

    Shelton would be accompanied to the ring by... William Regal.


    My reasons for choosing?

    Well lets look at it realistically. Everyone thinks that Shelton has the potential to one day be WWE's future. But others say he is bad at cutting promos and doing work on the mic, which is true, and is what has caused him to fall so drastically. Lets face it: Shelton Benjamin is as bland as mic-worker as there is.

    On the flip side..

    Regal has had amazing matches in the past, and is currently a great comedy character whose excellent timing on the mic and in promos has people laughing every time. However, he also portrayed to us, very successfully, i might add, a very royal English snob.

    Pair them together and what have you got? Two guys that can work off each other perfectly.


    OK, So lets say we can't re-package them. Take a look at Shelton as of late (before his ECW disaster, which i haven't seen much of to be honest).

    We give Shelton back his intro gear from his recent world's greatest tag team stint (the white tracksuit with blue fiery detailing and his sunglasses). We leave regal as he is, but revert him back to his 2001 ways.

    So we now have a heel team. A cool looking black dude with his own custom clothing, and a royal english man who looks down on the spectators.

    A perfect couple really.

    Benjamin can come to the ring accompanied by william regal. William Regal can curse the crowd before and after matches, and between Regal's mic time, Shelton Benjamin can do his usual amazing ring work.


    In order to get these guys over more, in title matches for example, Regal can become active (he is an established wrestler, so it wouldnt be odd to see him getting involved).

    Its looking like Benjamin is going to lose the match, his opponent bounces off the ropes, climbs the turnbuckles or whatever and regal can use his trademark brass knuckles to knock the face down, allowing Benjamin to get the upper hand and take the victory. Also in cases were a face might have a manager, Regal can also be used in tag team matches and so forth.


    Makes sense to me.

    (NOTE: This is my first time doing this ATH thing, so if I'm after breaking the rules of the game or whatever, just let me know ;) )


    ***EDIT***

    Dammit, i thought they both had to be on the roster. Ah well, I stick by my choices.


  • #17
    gimmick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,296 ✭✭✭✭gimmick


    Right, Ill try stay the curse this time, but my WWE knowledge is waning somewhat due to my not having too much interest in it anymore.

    However, I would put Prince Nana in with Shelton Benjamin. Nana, from what i have seen of him in ROH is a very charismatic automatic heel who can talk and talk and generates good heat very quickly. The reason I would put him with Benjamin is because Benjamin has proven he cannot cut it on his own. He is a decent wrestler with a good look but we know that a wrestler without decent charisma rarely makes the top. Chris Benoit is the only exception, but his World Title reign is widely believed to have played 2nd fiddle to the HHH/HBK fued.

    Benjamin is someone who could hugely do with a good, realistic sidekick (unlike his mama a few years ago :rolleyes:). Prince Nana is that man.


  • #18
    Charlie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,819 ✭✭✭Charlie


    Personally, I feel that managers are best utilized when you have a wrestler, who either isn't great on the mic or, their character is such, that a mouthpiece manager makes sense. Further, I believe that such combos work best as heels.

    Therefore, I propose that Booby Lashley be managed by Jim Cornette.

    Its plain to see that the wwe see Lashley as one of the top tier guys, and he certainly has the look and wrestling background for this. However, he is terrible on the mic (he has a really gay voice), and is a bland babyface, with the latter being a result of the former.

    I genuinely believe that Lashley could work as a killing machine heel (e.g Brock, early Taker, masked Kane etc). But he doesn't have the mouth for it. I believe that if the viewing public are going to have Lashley as one of their main eventers, it might as well be done right, and having someone like Cornette as Lashley's mouthpiece could achieve this.

    Cornette is one of the best talkers in the business. He was phenomenal at drawing Heat for the Midnight Express, and cut some great promos during the otherwise dull mid 90's WWF.

    Cornette would give credibility to Lashley as a heel, and would ensure that when Lashley is put in a program with someone, there could be some interesting promos in the build.

    Imagine a face Lashley feuding with Randy Orton, i can see those 4 weeks of raw being real interesting :rolleyes:. However, imagine a heel Lashley with Cornette as his mouthpiece manager in a feud with Chris Jericho, great viewing.

    Bottom line, if Cornette was Lashley's manager, he could give Lashley the push, but more importantly, the credibility he badly needs in many fans eyes, in order to become a worthy main eventer (and maybe teach booby a few things about how to cut a promo). Look at what Heyman was able to do for Brock.

    In respect of KKV's choice, I would argue against for two reasons.

    One, Regal is a fantastic GM, and as KKV points out, great on the mic. With Regal as a wrestlers manager, presumably his on-screen time would be much more limited then what it currently is, which for me, is not a good thing.

    Secondly, and more importantly, it just doesn't fit. I cannot see the two having any sort of chemistry, and to me it wouldn't be believable that regal (the character) would want to manage Shelton, or Shelton would want him as his manager. One is a cocky young black male, the other is stiff upper lip, pretentious Brit. Shelton seems like the type regal would cast as being dastardly. Sure, it could be interesting for 1 or two Raw's. but after that i just don't see it working.

    EDIT: Just saw gimmick's post after I posted. I can't really comment, as I have never seen this Prince Nana, but i will say this. Contrary to what most think, i actually believe that Shelton has it in him to cut his own promo's and move up the ladder. I just think wwe haven't found a suitable character for him. If anyone knows Terrell Owens (T.O) of NFL fame, I believe that shelton could model himself after T.O and develop a successful character. T.O is an outspoken wide-receiver for the Dallas Cowboys. He has a chip on his shoulder, often taking the 'everyone is against me' attitude. He is flash, cocky, and is some would say greedy. I believe that Shelton could portray such a character in the wwe.


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Can I go again?

    I mean.. I had one half-written that was much better. But then i realised that the manager i had chosen wasn't in WWE.

    I assumed when bounty wrote "There are very few managers in the WWE at the moment" that we had to stick solely to WWE's current day roster :(


    I was wrong.


  • #20
    Bounty Hunter
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,105 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    Seing as you are new and i have not started grading any answers yet if you wish and nobody objects you can edit your original answer for this 2nd one you had written. However after this one you will only get one chance to answer each round.


  • #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well does anyone object?

    I mean, I don't mind fighting the Regal corner, I'll make the best of it if i have to, but Knowing it wasn't my original choice is a bit of a kick in the ass.


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  • #22
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    The wrestler in WWE who I think could make most use of a manager right now is Randy Orton. He's got the in-ring skills, he's got the presence, but he doesn't quite have the promo skills. He often sounds repetitive on the mic and he's not on the same level as his opponents. Cena, Michaels and Jericho are all well able to hold their own on the mic (even if what they're given to say isn't always that great). Those guys all have a certain charisma about them that Orton just doesn't have

    So, for Randy's mouthpiece, I would pick Larry Sweeney. If you haven't seen him in action on the mic before, here's a short promo by him: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=jphL3csDXOs There's plenty of his promos on Youtube, but most of them are done by him for himself, as he's usually a wrestler. But in ROH he's a manager and he's just as good at cutting them on behalf of others, often even better as he's got more to say

    If anyone read or heard any of the many interviews with Jericho before he returned to WWE, he was often asked which guys not currently in WWE impress him the most. Larry Sweeney was always at the top of his list, Jericho compared him to a modern-day Bobby Heenan. He's not the only person who I've heard make that comparison either. I'd have picked Bobby Heenan himself for this answer, only that he's not really able to talk properly these days due to losing some of his tongue and unfortunately he just wouldn't cut it with most of the WWE audience because of that

    Jericho said that it's unfortunate that Larry's small and so good on the mic as it makes it unlikely that he'll ever get to WWE, which is true. If WWE ever did decide to use some more managers but still push the big guys, then Sweeney would have to be near the top of their list for managers. He's a lot shorter than Orton, which would still leave Orton with his presence and even looking more imposing during promos

    Since Orton is a heel, a manager like Sweeney is perfect for him. Sweeney's a great heel and it would make sense for him to get involved in Orton's matches at times. Some of the matches recently where Orton lost by DQ (leaving a bad taste in people's mouths) could have actually lead to something, with the challengers eventually getting their hands on Sweeney for causing the DQ. And that's the great thing about male managers, they can give a payoff in the end by getting beaten up by the face, unlike female managers

    Sweeney's not a bad wrestler so he could be put in against one of Orton's challengers who's had enough of the interference. The last time I remember this happening in WWE was when Paul Heyman kept getting in Brock Lesnar's way when he was feuding with Kurt Angle. When Brock got that cage match on SD against Heyman the fans loved it. Sweeney could also work tag team or six-man tags with Orton

    The main thing is that Orton's weakness is his mic work. Sweeney's mic work stands right up there with any of the best talkers today, and he's got experience in being a manager and in talking up wrestlers other than just himself. The perfect fit in my opinion


  • #23
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well does anyone object?

    I mean, I don't mind fighting the Regal corner, I'll make the best of it if i have to, but Knowing it wasn't my original choice is a bit of a kick in the ass.

    I've got no problem. I'd rather see Regal wrestling anyway!


  • #24
    Cactus Col
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭Cactus Col


    I've no objection.

    Right, the wrestler I see most in need of a manager right now is Kenny Dykstra. This is a wrestler the IWC had been literally creaming themselves over a number of years ago. He had done well in OVW, and has shown himself to be a solid in ring performer, and is okay on the microphone.

    However, after the demise of the spirit squad dykstra has been lost in the shuffle, and has found himself playing back up to Victoria on a show without a womens division.

    A perfect manager could be found in JBL. Undoubtedly he is the one of the best talkers in the WWE at the moment. Though he has stepped back into the ring recently his wrestling days are numbered, and it is only a matter of time before WWE finds a way to make use of his vocal talents again.

    JBL's character could very easily put a young wrestler over, by highlight his wallstreet pedigree, JBL can show not only is he savy investing in the stock market, but also in investing in a young wrestler with huge potential.

    Kenny would get the benefit from a new sense of direction, JBL's large in ring experience, and would be better able to develop both his microphone skills, and his on screen character.

    I think the main purpose of using a manager is to get the worker over, rather than the manager. JBL has proven, through his commentary on smackdown, that he is more than capable of getting a worker over, while also gaining heat for himself.


  • #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fozzy wrote: »
    I've got no problem. I'd rather see Regal wrestling anyway!

    Screw it, I was gonna pick Daivari (Who would've been a much better choice, really) but I'll defend my Regal choosing.

    I might be fighting a losing round.. but theres more than one round anyway.


    OK...
    charlie mchugh wrote: »
    In respect of KKV's choice, I would argue against for two reasons.

    One, Regal is a fantastic GM, and as KKV points out, great on the mic. With Regal as a wrestlers manager, presumably his on-screen time would be much more limited then what it currently is, which for me, is not a good thing.

    Secondly, and more importantly, it just doesn't fit. I cannot see the two having any sort of chemistry, and to me it wouldn't be believable that regal (the character) would want to manage Shelton, or Shelton would want him as his manager. One is a cocky young black male, the other is stiff upper lip, pretentious Brit. Shelton seems like the type regal would cast as being dastardly. Sure, it could be interesting for 1 or two Raw's. but after that i just don't see it working.


    Yes, Regal is a fantastic GM, but if he were to be managing a main event wrestler, then his time would be still consistent. Shelton would need to stay over with the audience, so we'd have to see him regularly anyway in order to keep Benjamin's face out there.

    Maybe his time would be slightly limited, but not enough to have him disappear. He would also have to represent Benjamin in backstage angles.


    As for your second point:

    It would work because i said it would work.

    Seriously though,

    Wrestling has always had its odd couples. I see your point. But i didn't think we were gonna have to go into that much detail. But whatever, here we go:


    William Regal has had a decent WWE stay as an in-ring performer. So as a storyline, he could begin to see that he is losing the spotlight. As someone who knows the business like the back of his hand, he would persuade Shelton Benjamin that he could get him to the top, make him champ. And with that he would be riding Benjamin's coat tails to stardom again. Benjamin would be fine with this as he would have been convinced that William Regal can get him to the top and William Regal would be more than happy too, as he is manipulating Shelton Benjamin, and getting his own star to rise again.

    Of course, as is the way with WWE, When benjamin's popularity fades, he'd have learned a few things about mic and promo work from regal and then the two of them could go at it for the belt. Spanned over an 8-12month period they could both become very big names and main eventers on the ECW brand.



    Now, i must pose the same question to you... Why would Jim Cornette be managing Black Lesnar?


  • #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cactus Col wrote: »
    I've no objection.

    Right, the wrestler I see most in need of a manager right now is Kenny Dykstra. This is a wrestler the IWC had been literally creaming themselves over a number of years ago. He had done well in OVW, and has shown himself to be a solid in ring performer, and is okay on the microphone.

    However, after the demise of the spirit squad dykstra has been lost in the shuffle, and has found himself playing back up to Victoria on a show without a womens division.

    A perfect manager could be found in JBL. Undoubtedly he is the one of the best talkers in the WWE at the moment. Though he has stepped back into the ring recently his wrestling days are numbered, and it is only a matter of time before WWE finds a way to make use of his vocal talents again.

    JBL's character could very easily put a young wrestler over, by highlight his wallstreet pedigree, JBL can show not only is he savy investing in the stock market, but also in investing in a young wrestler with huge potential.

    Kenny would get the benefit from a new sense of direction, JBL's large in ring experience, and would be better able to develop both his microphone skills, and his on screen character.

    I think the main purpose of using a manager is to get the worker over, rather than the manager. JBL has proven, through his commentary on smackdown, that he is more than capable of getting a worker over, while also gaining heat for himself.


    Your reply wasn't there when i began typing.

    I must ask though.. Isn't Kenny Dykstra a punk who has no respect for his elders or those who came before him? This would be a complete personality clash on both sides and would, in my opinion, not get Kenny or JBL over as serious wrestlers. If i were to imagine these two together all i can envision
    is a few comedy sketches backstage were JBL is trying to teach Kenny about things and kenny shows a complete lack of disinterest. I could never see these two being realistically successful together
    as serious grapplers.


  • #27
    Charlie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,819 ✭✭✭Charlie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Now, i must pose the same question to you... Why would Jim Cornette be managing Black Lesnar?

    That's not how it works my friend. I have already outlined my reasons for my choice. Feel free though to try and deconstruct my argument, like I tried to do with yours.


  • #28
    Cactus Col
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭Cactus Col


    In regards to both Charlie McHugh and Fozzy's replies, I think there is a danger of those managers actually weakening the client.

    I do see the benefit to both Lashley and Orton by getting in managers.

    Both Orton and Lashley are main event level wrestlers. To all of a sudden have somebody come in and do their talking for them could easily detract from them in the eyes of fans. Especially if the manager is a complete unknown, such as Sweeney is to most people.

    Heyman and Lesnar worked so well because Lesnar was a nobody at first, and Heyman was able to build him up.

    However, when Heyman ditched Lesnar and began managing The Big Show, it really didn't get big show any more over than he was, and certainly didn't get Big show anywhere as near as over as he was when he was at his peak.


  • #29
    Charlie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,819 ✭✭✭Charlie


    Cactus Col wrote: »
    In regards to both Charlie McHugh and Fozzy's replies, I think there is a danger of those managers actually weakening the client.

    I do see the benefit to both Lashley and Orton by getting in managers.

    Both Orton and Lashley are main event level wrestlers. To all of a sudden have somebody come in and do their talking for them could easily detract from them in the eyes of fans. Especially if the manager is a complete unknown, such as Sweeney is to most people.

    Heyman and Lesnar worked so well because Lesnar was a nobody at first, and Heyman was able to build him up.

    However, when Heyman ditched Lesnar and began managing The Big Show, it really didn't get big show any more over than he was, and certainly didn't get Big show anywhere as near as over as he was when he was at his peak.

    Whilst your argument probably applies to Orton, i don't think it does with Lashley (obvious of me to say, I know). Orton is main event in most fans eyes, sure, his mic skills aren't the best, but he has been in many big feuds, and is now a time world champion.

    Lashley on the other hand is being forced down the fans throat as a main eventer. Do anyone of us actually see the Lashley of present as main event material? Could he, at present, headline Mania? The answer to both questions is no. With respect to Orton though, both questions would be answered in the affirmative.

    Thus, I think aligning him with a promo machine like Cornette would actually help him break through that glass ceiling in THE FAN'S EYES, even though he may have already done so in Vince's eyes.


  • #30
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    Cactus Col, do you think there'd be any danger of JBL overshadowing Kenny? JBL is a very overbearing character and I think that the fans would just look at JBL as being the star of the two. Think of when JBL had his cabinet. Orlando Jordan and the Bashams didn't get any sort of rub off JBL, even though he was the champ at the time. And look at where they are now! JBL is also a lot larger than Kenny, meaning that a lot of the fans' attention will be drawn more towards JBL. I just couldn't see it working
    Cactus Col wrote: »
    Both Orton and Lashley are main event level wrestlers. To all of a sudden have somebody come in and do their talking for them could easily detract from them in the eyes of fans. Especially if the manager is a complete unknown, such as Sweeney is to most people.

    This is sort of what I just talked about, there's no danger of Sweeney overshadowing Orton. I agree that there's no way that Sweeney could just march on in and be Orton's manager, it wouldn't make sense, especially right now. But with the eventual goal of pairing them up, I'd start Sweeney on ECW with a guy like the Miz or John Morrison, anyone who has a chance at winning the ECW title. Actually, teaming him up with both of them would make sense. All WWE would have to do at first is get over the idea that Sweeney manages successful wrestlers. Have Miz and Morrison hold the SD tag titles, have one of them win the ECW title, have the other win the US title or the Cruiserweight title

    You'd need a reason for Orton to hire a manager, and losing the belt would be an obvious one. Have Orton lose the belt and a couple of rematches, then have him hire Sweeney. Have Sweeney's former clients lose their titles soon after, getting over the idea that it was largely due to Sweeney that those guys held their titles

    As long as Sweeney is established as a winner in some way and that Orton has a reason for hiring him, then I don't think that Sweeney would detract from him

    I just remembered too, they've got experience of working together on Raw! Larry played the part of the fake Nick Hogan before Summerslam in 2006


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  • #31
    Bounty Hunter
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,105 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    Seems like there might be a good turnout this time round especially with tommorow as a chance for people (including both former winners) to still catch the 1st round. I would just like to take this opportunity to say to anyone reading this thread but not competing that suggestions for questions to be used would be much appreciated by PM.


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