From Pad to Stick

Cunny-Funt · 08-01-2010 2:31pm

Cunny Funt: I've not a clue about match ups and planned to get into learning them to up my game but learning stick has stopped all that and now I'm stuck trying to catch up to the level I used to be.

Dreddybajs wrote: »

The two are in no way mutually exclusive man, if anything most of my matchup knowledge comes from watching match videos and reading. Obviously the basic matchup strategy is pretty easy to figure out from playing though.

Yeah I know my plan was to read up on each character and learn what moves I can punish and train to do them on reaction. Plus try and find and get long sessions with, good players who play character I rarely play against. But then when I got my stick my level dropped so far and my ability to do certain moves in general, never mind on reaction, diminished..

its like trying to get a really good laptime in a car you can't control. I feel I can't move up to the more advanced stuff still I can do the basic's on reaction.

Its really dis heartening when you get a game with a good player, that'd normally be a really close and intense battle but you're getting walked all over because even though you know he's gonna do something and you know how to punish, your too damn slow inputing and you eat what he's gonna do anyway.

Or that rare opening appears where you must take advantage of in high end matches, but instead your character jumps up in the air randomly, or stands theres not blocking cause you messed up a dash or something.

I also have some really bad habits that combined with all this kill me even more, I remember kiki posted a article on SRK about players bad habits and there was one sentence that was me down to a tee. If I enter in something, that at the time would be the perfect move to do, but I **** it up or whatever, I will almost always try it again right after , when the time to do this has passed.

Getting me KOed all the damn time. I need to shake this badly.

I'll give you an amusing example of this retardedness:

focus attack into ultra is what I wanted but a standard SRK comes out. Which'll make me go 'for **** sake' and while I say this I usually do something retarded... like I dunno... try the same damn thing 2 seconds later...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWYnzFeetc0#t=3m53s

lol

I could actually point out me doing this a large amount of times in my vids but you get the idea my game play is plagued by this, I need to kill this bad habit badly lol, I dunno if anyone else gets this?

But with this bad habit plus my dodgy stick skills I'm doing all sorts of embarrassing ****. Doing a lot of wake up srks out of pure frustration of wanting to see a move I input actually work. lol...sigh.

Dreddybajs · 08-01-2010 2:36pm

Yeah that habit plagues an awful lot of players for sure. Do it myself sometimes when I spd even though I know in the back of my mind I've been too slow and they moved out of range. :pac:

I get what you mean, and all I can say is that from playing you recently, you've definitely gotten miles better on stick than the last time before that I'd played you. Makes me thankful I never played on pad in the first place tbh seeing how much effort you're having to put in to switch over, but imo out of Irish players in general, you're one of the guys with really solid execution, and I'm sure you will be 100% on stick after a while more.

Cunny-Funt · 08-01-2010 2:58pm

Well cheers, I do find my execution is better on terrys stick then when I play at home with my standard SE actually.

In terms of effort to switching from pad to stick, I'm not getting as much SF time as I'd like so it'd probably be a lot smoother if I spent more time training on the thing instead of just... playing on it.. when I do get to play, so I'd have probably ironed out issues sooner if I got the thing during the summer or something.

& while yes its annoying when I wanna have a really high level intense match, I'm loving being able to use one and its a good laugh actually. I don't regret getting a stick at all, I just wish I did it sooner.

I can't wait to customise mine :cool:

Cobelcog · 13-01-2010 10:28pm

So, after a series of wacky events today, I am now the owner of a stick. As expected, I couldn't do much at all when I tried to use it. I could do a few basic combos and that was it with my right hand not knowing what buttons it should be hitting. I went online and luckily got paired up with people who weren't that good so my sloppy Ryu emerged victorious more often than not.

But it made me think about what I was doing. If I took so long to adjust to using a stick, would it really be worth it? I mean, I'm completely fine with my pad and I can execute what I want to when I want to a lot of the time. So, I intend to go back to my pad and stick with it.

But I'm also interested in the appeal of sticks in the first place. Sticks are always seen as the ultimate controllers for this and how everyone seem to talk about how their play has improved and how they'd never go back to a pad once they learn stick. So, I guess my question about that is... Why?

Doctor DooM · 13-01-2010 10:34pm

Cobelcog wrote: »

So, after a series of wacky events today, I am now the owner of a stick. As expected, I couldn't do much at all when I tried to use it. I could do a few basic combos and that was it with my right hand not knowing what buttons it should be hitting. I went online and luckily got paired up with people who weren't that good so my sloppy Ryu emerged victorious more often than not.

But it made me think about what I was doing. If I took so long to adjust to using a stick, would it really be worth it? I mean, I'm completely fine with my pad and I can execute what I want to when I want to a lot of the time. So, I intend to go back to my pad and stick with it.

But I'm also interested in the appeal of sticks in the first place. Sticks are always seen as the ultimate controllers for this and how everyone seem to talk about how their play has improved and how they'd never go back to a pad once they learn stick. So, I guess my question about that is... Why?

I don't think think sticks are better per se.

I have 2 decades of muscle memory with sticks. I am used to using weird and wonderful sticks anywhere, any time. I used a pad for a couple of years and can still struggle through with one. But stick is my baby simply because I grew up with it.

Cobelcog · 13-01-2010 10:40pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I don't think think sticks are better per se.

I have 2 decades of muscle memory with sticks. I am used to using weird and wonderful sticks anywhere, any time. I used a pad for a couple of years and can still struggle through with one. But stick is my baby simply because I grew up with it.

I'd imagine that it all comes down to personal preference at the end of the day but there does seem to be an attachment with sticks and the top level of play to the point where moving from pad to stick is seen as an upgrade of sorts. Just wondering what's up with that, really. Arcade roots, perhaps?

Doctor DooM · 13-01-2010 10:43pm

Cobelcog wrote: »

I'd imagine that it all comes down to personal preference at the end of the day but there does seem to be an attachment with sticks and the top level of play to the point where moving from pad to stick is seen as an upgrade of sorts. Just wondering what's up with that, really. Arcade roots, perhaps?

I would say so. For me, having those arcade roots, I need the click of the microswitch there for me to feel I know exactly what I am doing. you don't get click off a pad

Sagat06 · 13-01-2010 10:46pm

I'd say its down to arcade roots tbh. Tournaments were held in arcades and players wanted to replicate the feel of the machines. Thats what did it for me.

K.O.Kiki · 13-01-2010 11:20pm

I'd ALSO say it's because a lot of people find the Microsoft/Sony d-pads terrible.

Plus when something breaks on a stick, you can just replace the part (rather than a whole damn pad).

Cunny-Funt · 13-01-2010 11:32pm

There is a little more to it then that, it is the better controller.

Especially compared to a 360 pad, of all pads.

Its like driving a car with a steering wheel or joystick, both are possible and you can train to get used to using most things, and be pro at racing cars using a joystick, but ultimately wheel is better.

If you went back in time and had yourself learn the game on an arcade stick versus the 360 pad, you'd probably have gotten better a lot fast on the arcade stick.

But the question remains, is it worth relearning all over again when you've already mastered everything on the pad? Will it make you a better player?

Maybe, maybe not. It might help things but only by like 0.2%.

Its actually impossible to tell, as its down to the player.

I decided to make the plunge because I, as a player felt that it would up my game, at the end of the day. I still feel I've a long way to go in street fighter, so I figured I'd take a few steps backward in the hopes of leaping forwards after a time.

It was also the appeal of having a more universal controller compared to the ps3 pad. Its really annoying having to get people to play me with a ps3 pad, you'd don't have as much of an issue being on 360 since everyone plays on 360.

They are a better controller yes, but its not like the difference between a mouse and keyboard in an FPS game versus a pad player.

The difference is small but its there.

animaX · 14-01-2010 4:28pm

Cobelcog wrote: »

But it made me think about what I was doing. If I took so long to adjust to using a stick, would it really be worth it? I mean, I'm completely fine with my pad and I can execute what I want to when I want to a lot of the time. So, I intend to go back to my pad and stick with it.

Without doubt stay with the pad. Obviously you can execute everything you want to execute.

But I am curious as to what whacky events got you a stick?! Can these whacky events be recreated to trigger another chain reaction so that I can get a stick too? :P

A-Trak · 14-01-2010 4:39pm

The main reason to get a stick is so you can look down at pad players to be honest.

Even when they beat, even if it's a double perfect, once you have a stick, you're better.

And whats even better then owning a stick? Owning 2 sticks, this allows you to look down on those one stick owning scum.

And what about people that own more then 2 sticks? Elitist snobs I say.

Dreddybajs · 14-01-2010 4:40pm

Cobelcog wrote: »

I'd imagine that it all comes down to personal preference at the end of the day but there does seem to be an attachment with sticks and the top level of play to the point where moving from pad to stick is seen as an upgrade of sorts. Just wondering what's up with that, really. Arcade roots, perhaps?

Can't piano on pad unless you use claw style (not important for SF4 unless you play Blanka/Chun/Gen/Honda).

animaX · 14-01-2010 4:43pm

A-Trak wrote: »

And whats even better then owning a stick? Owning 2 sticks, this allows you to look down on those one stick owning scum.

And people with modded sticks look down at people with stock parts in their sticks :pac:

K.O.Kiki · 14-01-2010 4:48pm

animaX wrote: »

And people with modded sticks look down at people with stock parts in their sticks :pac:

Well I'm gonna have to move up to DarkTalant's rank.

Full-built custom here I come!

chopperbyrne · 14-01-2010 5:06pm

animaX wrote: »

And people with modded sticks look down at people with stock parts in their sticks :pac:

Doctor DooM · 14-01-2010 5:09pm

Meh.

The Doomstick is lord amongst sticks, modded and optimised to give ultimate performance.

You all who have been blessed to see it must surely admit that it's subtle yet entirely successful modifications make it a prince, nay, a king, of the stick world.

Ry · 14-01-2010 5:11pm

For me I like playing with pad just fine but I do find it way more fun and satisfying playing with stick.

That said if you don't have any reason to switch then don't!

Cobelcog · 14-01-2010 5:53pm

Thanks for the inputs guys, appreciated. My regular pad's been a bit iffy recently so a new controller's been on my mind. While being able to use a stick would be an ideal situation, from a practical standpoint I can't really justify it. I'm planning to just return the stick in favour of a normal pad during the next week.

animaX wrote: »

But I am curious as to what whacky events got you a stick?! Can these whacky events be recreated to trigger another chain reaction so that I can get a stick too? :P

I wouldn't count it out. All you'll need is Gamestop and a friend on a spending spree who's willing to be negotiated/pestered into making a deal with you! Although there was more situational wackiness on the day, that should be the minimum to make it work.

Cunny-Funt · 15-01-2010 5:07pm

There is a lot of work getting used to a stick when you've gotten to a high level on pad alright.

As I'm living that nightmare I can totally understand. Especially if your just gonna stick with cammy.

What stick did you get btw?

Cobelcog · 15-01-2010 6:30pm

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

There is a lot of work getting used to a stick when you've gotten to a high level on pad alright.

As I'm living that nightmare I can totally understand. Especially if your just gonna stick with cammy.

What stick did you get btw?

Definately. The button placements are very awkward to get used to. I can't find the buttons quick enough to go for any big link combos or anything. I forget the light hits exist for the most part when actually playing since I'm too busy using specials and mixing up my heavy/medium punch/kick. As far as execution goes, the stuff I can do is pretty basic. I can do a lot better in Training Mode ("better", not necessarily "good" :P) since I have the time to consider what buttons are where and whatnot but in an actual fight, not so much! I did manage to somehow pull off a shoryuken fadc ultra whle fighting a friend though which I was very pleased with.

Haven't played with Cammy much on the stick; too difficult :P I've just been messing around with Ryu for the most part.

The stick I got is a Hori Fighting Stick EX2... Is that good? I have no idea haha. Just having a go at it to see if I want to stick with pad or invest in a good, reliable stick if this one proves difficult to maintain.

I'm pretty bad with using a stick but it sure is fun to use. Since I don't intend to make it my main controller atm, I'm not taking it too seriously if I'm struggling with something as simple as Heavy Punch to Cannon Spike! (which I have been

) I can see myself messing around with it tonight some more instead of preparing for tomorrow haha. If you're going, maybe we can embarass ourselves in some Stick Vs Stick battles :pac:

bush · 15-01-2010 10:46pm

I dunno how you play so well on that 360 pad, I think its the worst thing ever for sf. Can you do instant dive kicks easy on the pad? Thats the only thing that I can think of that the stick might help you with.

Cobelcog · 15-01-2010 11:20pm

bush wrote: »

I dunno how you play so well on that 360 pad, I think its the worst thing ever for sf. Can you do instant dive kicks easy on the pad? Thats the only thing that I can think of that the stick might help you with.

I can do them easily enough. I get them more often than I don't. I still get a jumping kick instead every now and then. It's irritating that I'm not getting it every time at this point but, still, if that's all I'd get out of taking the time to learn stick I'll be sticking with my pad for the time being.

Jim · 15-01-2010 11:30pm

bush wrote: »

I dunno how you play so well on that 360 pad, I think its the worst thing ever for sf. Can you do instant dive kicks easy on the pad? Thats the only thing that I can think of that the stick might help you with.

He uses the analogue on the 360 pad which imo is pretty decent for SF.

Doctor DooM · 15-01-2010 11:41pm

Jim wrote: »

He uses the analogue on the 360 pad which imo is pretty decent for SF.

Speaking as someone who can fight with any of them (as you well know

) I would consider it easily the worst of the current gen options.

Jim · 15-01-2010 11:48pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Speaking as someone who can fight with any of them (as you well know ) I would consider it easily the worst of the current gen options.

I was comparing it to the dpad on the 360, which defiantly is not better than it.

Doctor DooM · 15-01-2010 11:50pm

Jim wrote: »

I was comparing it to the dpad on the 360, which defiantly is not better than it.

Oh ok.

You are 100% right it's truly awful.

Stylesclash1702 · 16-01-2010 10:12am

i have been using the stick for two days now, im not saying im great with it but the switch from pad to stick is not as hard as i thought it will take a while to get everything down but the basic are coming easy. Fighting online will take a while to get right but im glad i made the change cause its making it a more fun game for me again(street fighter 4). Started to use it on tekken 6 also and found it great to play.

Sisko · 05-03-2010 4:38am

Well time to update this mofo:

When I first started :

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

But I can generally do most standard shoto moves. Although I'm having issues with a lot of B&B combos like c.mk>fb/tatsu.

These posts where from my first few days on stick and I'm talking about fireballs , dps, and tatsus here. I have no issues with those, although my fireball game is still not up to scratch with my pad fire ball game in terms of how many I'll throw before I wiff one and a normal comes out.

Still this isnt every second fireball, I just feel a little less confident in a fireball war then I would be on pad.

I'm landing c.mk's into fb's and other B&B stuff grand these days.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Things like super canceling and all that fancy fadc stuff are out the window currently.

I can do all this fine. My only issue, (and this is currently the big one that I have to conquer before I feel I've mastered stick) is down to the fact that now I've got 3 fingers and a thumb doing the work and moving fast around the 6 buttons.

This causes me to hit certian things sooner then other things.... and things get messy.

The more compicated things in terms of button presses the more likley I will mess up.

For example:

Lets say I got a guy in a corner and I land a jump in hk, to crouching mk > fb> fadc crouching mk > ex tatsu > ultra .

I'll enter all this in. But some times what happenes is I'll FADC the crouching MK before the fireball comes out, ****ing the whole thing up. In which case I'll try and thow the guy.

But I'll be very pissed off this happened. Hurting my game for the next few seconds.

But whats worse is, sometimes the fadc doesnt register properly, but I've still entered half of those commands, meaning ryu will just DASH at the other guy , and because dash takes half an hour to happen and then stop happening....I'm generally watching in horror while ryu continues dashing at this guy even though I'm holding block. & naturally ryu gets raped. I get pissed off, and my game is hurt for a few seconds later as well.

I get pissed cause this stuff is well with in my ability in terms of timing and knowledge of the game. I can link a lot of stuff no problem, its just due to being so clumbsy on stick I hit other buttons or my left and is not inputing at the same speed as right.

I'm not actually even sure what I'm hitting that causes the mess ups, but its generally down to not having that finese with button presses that I need to have to do what I very well have the ability to do.

But anyway considering in my quoted post there I'm talking about a crappy light srk fadc ultra, I've come a long long way.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Charge characters on the other hand are a lot harder then I assumed they'd be. Sonic booms and flash kicks and spinning bird kicks are wiffing like crazy.

Still have this issue actually but I've not really been concentrating on them much.

Ok from my last update:

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

My issues at the moment are eating jump ins a lot thinking I'm blocking when I'm not, or being too slow with an srk.

I'm still very slow on reaction SRKing but improving.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

And dealing with cross overs. I can block the initial hit but if he goes from that to a low hit into the rest of his combo, for some reason I'm not able to block the low hit fast enough so I still eat the whole combo. Played a guy that picked up on this weakness pretty early and totally took advantage of it.

This is still an issue but I've improved a lot. I think whats happening is I'm going into neutral on the way to blocking low and its while there that the low hit connects, allowing the guy free linking to the rest of his heavy damage combo.

But its 50/50 now where as awhile back I'd eat this stuff 100% of the time.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

My block string/combo ability is still pretty weak however I'm finding the buttons are getting a little...iffy... after using peoples fight sticks now I can really see the difference in parts.

I've improved in this area a lot over the past week. This was really killing my ability to play anywhere near how my pad ryu would play.

His standard B&B block strings that were so important to my game, ie c.lk-c.lp-c.mk > fb and so forth.

I'd miss these every time, causing all sorts of **** to happen. Anyone who mashes reversals during block strings would hit me hard , it'd come to the point that they'd know they would have a free hit on me whenever I got in close and abuse it.

I'd have to counter by faking my block stick and baiting their reversal. But a lot of the time I'd still try to conintue my block sting our of frustration that hardly anything I enter happens on screen.

I hit training mode and just started doing my B&B combo/blockstrings over and over again for about 10 mins every time I went to play the game.

I'd normally go into training mode anyway, but what I used to do was just try all different combos and such. This time I just concentrated on one and kept repeating that same one over and over.

Now I've jumped up and hit a 50% success rate with this standard b&b combo/blockstring and with it, something has clicked and some of my other stuff is starting to happen properly in game such as :

c.mp - c.hp - fb/ex tatsu

c.mp - c.hp - ex fb fadc ultra

jump in hp - c.mp - c.hp. ex tatsu - ultra etc etc etc

I've the timing for all this stuff down and thats np for me, its miss pressing **** mid combo thats killing me and I've made a lot of progress in one week just by practicing a single combo over and over. I'm feckin delighted.

I can't wait to get my new buttons and stick now and see how this goes.

I'm just gonna keep training this way, selecting a combo and doing it over and over for a while.

Then move onto my other characters and do the same.

problem atm is 3 of my buttons on my se are dead or dying. But I ordered my parts tonight so hopefully by next week I'll have 'em.

Sisko · 08-03-2010 5:44pm

Okay guys, I'm looking for some input/help/info from those of you that play on stick.

Its about what fingers you guys use on the 6 buttons.

As I'm learning here, what I found extra interesting about the J.wong 3s character vids was how it showed his hands during play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IEB40tl9zI

What surprised me was this:

He only seems to use his index and middle finger to hit buttons. He moves his hand around and generally hits the buttons in succession with his index finger!

Now I'm a Ryu player so I'm gonna translate this to Ryu:

I assume everyone knows his basic c.lk c.lp .cmk - fireball combo. When I do this for the fireball I'll use light punch cause at least that way if I **** up only a LP will come out (early on I used HP and left my self so open on **** ups)

I'll press:

Lk with my thumb

LP with my index finger

Mk with my thumb again

and the LP for the fireball with my index finger,

if its ex I"ll use LP and MP with index and middle finger.

If I'm FADCing that FB I'll then use my thumb and middle finger for mk-mp.

Finally, if say I was linking into HP > ex TATSU instead of mk.FB :

I hit HP with my middle finger, then HK and MK with the base of my middle finger and index if you get me?
Basiclly hitting the hp with the tip of my middle finger and then flattening my hand to hit the other two buttons with the base of my 2 fingers.

(I do the same when linking medium punch into ex tatsu, and this can sometimes result in unwanted focus attacks)

So looking at wong it would seem he'd do ryu's B&B combo like this:

c.lk - c.lp - c.mk -> FB all with his index finger.

it looks like he'll sometimes hit the same button with both his index and middle finger , one ofter the other (when doing supers) instead of double tapping for example (its still a double tap but he uses one then the other finger, instead of using one to hit twice.

I'm noticing what must be plinking when linking to HP too.

To me it seems odd to use only 2 fingers 90% of the time, when I thought the whole point was you can make use of more fingers on a stick.

But looking at my own execution problems, it seems a lot of it is too many fingers messing eachother up.

Where as his method seems ........ cleaner

So in conclusion to what probably seems like on overly detailed post on mere button pressing , I'd really like to hear from people how they press the buttons on stick.

Because this is one of the big things for me and I'll have to almost retrain (yet again) what my hand does on stick do land my links and combos.

Cheers guys.

From Pad to Stick

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