Mary Robinson tells it like it is

She's talking through all of her holes.

Dudess wrote: »

And are you saying people should have said "Oh no, that's too much pay, I want a pay-cut"? You're taking being human out of this entirely.

Pretty much, yeah.
And they should have said, "Oh no, that's too much tax cuts, I want taxes to be higher"
And "Oh no, that's too many tax incentives, I want less of them"
And "Oh no, that's too much social welfare, I want less"
And "Oh no, that's too much minimum wage, I want less"

That is precisely what we should have said. But we didnt. I appreciate that all sounds weird. But many other nations during the past decade of boom did not see a MASSIVE increase in wages and tax cuts. Ask yourself why not

Dudess wrote: »

What behaviour? Living and working here and yes, socialising and spending but doing absolutely nothing flash is the only behaviour I'm guilty of... Is maybe living like an Albanian peasant farmer who can see into the future what I should have been doing?.

Flash is relative. Compared to a Spanish person or a Latvian on just above the minimum wage, you have been doing many flash things.

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

You are blaming the victims here. The people getting ripped off, by house prices, food prices, bad regulation are being blamed for this, for not travelling 100 miles a week to shop ( or something)..

Lol. Um...no....

I am blaming everyone for not recognising what was going on, for not demanding that we dont over-inflate a bubble, for very happily taking massive tax cuts, and spending increases while barely raising a mutter as to whether this was all sustainable. We took all of these things and barely raised a whimper. We all have to take some blame.

But i am not absolving those who are most responsible either. My over-arching point is that the next time a Government showers us with tax decreases, and breaks, and increased wages and minimum wages, we all have a responsibility to say something, rather than do what we did in this case, which was say next to nothing.

Dudess wrote: »

People did voice concerns, they were ignored. What do you do? Retire to a cave and live off the land? People had to continue to live here - or do you think they would only really have absolved themselves of blame if they emigrated? I see what you're saying but it's grossly unfair to refer to it is a degree of responsibility. You're saying people were to blame (if only slightly, but still) for merely being human..

Some people raised concerns; most of us didnt. We took everything the Gov were offering and asked for more...and more.

Dudess wrote: »

Nope, I do not have any culpability for simply living and working and spending here - and not doing the latter beyond my means. If I didn't exist, things would be exactly the same.

Thats funny. A good friend of mine is quite senior in a major bank. While she didnt directly create the policy of easy lending, she was one of the people who lent billions of euro to developers through the past 10 years. When I ask her if she has any responsibility for what happened, she says no, she has no culpability for simply working to the policies in the bank and if she didnt do it, things would be exactly the same.

I guess she isnt responsible either.

Dudess wrote: »

And in fairness she was just doing her job.

And so the cycle continues.

Sigh.

uwala wrote: »

Always hated her. She was paid to be a figurehead, sign bills into law, and keep her mouth shut, like every other president did. Instead she abused her position to go on a global junket, embarassing us internationally with her wooden manner and speeches on issues she had no business doing. In the end her big mouth finished her, because she pissed off the US and blew her chances as Secretary General of the UN.

Norris is going to be a much better President, but just wait until it's my turn

Holy shit. I cannot believe otherwise intelligent posters are trotting out the "we are all to blame" line whilst simultaneously saying if we don't accept this it will be our undoing in the future. You may as well bend over now and spread your cheeks for the next fucking if that's what you really believe.

The problem here wasn't a boom but a bubble. There was real, underlying economic growth underpinning the Irish economy's expansion over the last decade or so and there was also a falsely inflated property market to go with it. I benefited from the former, in terms of the quality of life I led, not the latter.

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

True enough. You can blame bankers all you like, but there is a relationship between the person who gives the loan and the person that accepts it. A 1:1 relationship.

Hmmm. Not quite true. There is a one to many relationship between banks and borrowers i.e. one bank lends to many people. If a person takes out a loan and can't afford to repay it then it is still their responsibility; they will have to find alternative income to repay or have their assets seized, they may even be declared bankrupt. If a bank gives out many loans to people who can't afford to repay them then whose responsibility is it? Somehow, people want us to believe it's not the bank's, it's everyone's. Or it's their customers. But you can't blame bad costumers for bad business decisions.

The banks made those decisions. The regulators let them make those decisions. There is really no need to complicate the matter further than that. The only problem is, in a modern economy, banks are regarded as too important to fail, so we have to all chip in and bail them out. That doesn't make us all responsible but it has made us all culpable.

prinz wrote: »

Not my experience tbh. Discussing it with friends recently and I was the only one with any sort of significant savings put by.

My experience is that almost all my friends have some savings put away. We come from what I'd call a middle class background and I can think of maybe two couples and one individual, all of whom are in long term employment who have bought houses during this time.

I don't know of people who take these three holidays a year, drive two Beemers to work, live it up LARGE and to hell with the consequences. I think bogus stories like this are the greatest crock of shit used to distract from what really happened, which was a property bubble pure and simple.

drkpower wrote: »

Yes, but not enough did; and they didnt do it loud enough.

But somehow, they're still to blame because they couldn't change the course of Irish history. Give it a rest. There is only so much one person can be held to account for. I won't be held to account for the stupid, short-sighted and selfish behaviour of anyone else no matter what bullshit spin people put on it.

WindSock wrote: »

Spend what you have and not what you hope to have. I think she is right, where does personal responsability begin?

It begins, and ends, with one's personal actions and behaviours.

If you go to a party and there are people there doing drugs, and you enjoy watching their antics whilst they're high, should you go to jail?

If you go to a sporting event and are cheering and excited and some of the fans riot but you don't, should you be held accountable for it?

Of course not. Why should our consumption habits be any different?

The government & banks are to blame to a degree, but when did people start listening to them?

What has listening to them got do do with it?

I could jump in with the rhetoric of 'IIII didn't cause this mess....it was someone else....I don't even have a mortgage...' too.

It's not rhetoric, it's cold hard fact. The whole "Everyone's to blame even if you didn't contribute because you didn't manage to prevent an economic bubble!!!!" is the rhetoric.

But I accept part the blame when I returned and bought into this over priced circus that ensued. As someone said earlier, if you paid over the odds for anything without some form of protest, then yes. You are part to blame.

Part to blame for what? Increased prices in retail goods? This has so little to do with the crisis we're facing as to be completely negligible.

uwala wrote: »

Always hated her. She was paid to be a figurehead, sign bills into law, and keep her mouth shut, like every other president did. Instead she abused her position to go on a global junket, embarassing us internationally with her wooden manner and speeches on issues she had no business doing. In the end her big mouth finished her, because she pissed off the US and blew her chances as Secretary General of the UN.

Bull****.

My class had the honour of having her lecture us on human rights two weeks ago, as well as attending a seminar on climate justice, and this lady really knows her stuff.

She didn't abuse her position, she made more of the position than any other presidents have.

She pissed off the US because they don't want to hear about their human rights abuses.

Out of any Irish figurehead, you have to respect this lady as one that knows her stuff and is not afraid saying what needs to be said.