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Watch out for the Luas

  • 29-09-2011 7:08pm
    #1
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Blackthorn Avenue, Sandyford. On road cycle track which quiclky becomes an off road cycle track.

    2011:09:21 15:30:34
    6195905654_228fd123b4.jpg

    6195906488_9a9a44a047.jpg

    2011:09:21 15:30:37
    6195393715_4cd0ee9ba3.jpg

    2011:09:21 15:30:39
    6195908748_7541f97efb.jpg

    2011:09:21 15:30:41
    6195909614_544ca52c44.jpg

    2011:09:21 15:30:42
    6195396417_98574711d4.jpg

    2011:09:21 15:30:43
    6195910828_a99c85bf16.jpg

    2011:09:21 15:30:46
    6195918268_8f730c509c.jpg

    011:09:21 15:30:47
    6195406411_a0d33fd0ec.jpg


Comments

  • #2
    kincsem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭kincsem


    Nice placement of signs. They hide the Luas perfectly.

    The Críoch / End sign with the bike image must mean "this is the end of your cycling career".


  • #3
    Lusk Doyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭Lusk Doyle


    Any pics from slightly further back? I don't see the issue from these pics. The cycle track ends and surely one would stop and look before attempting to cross the luas.


  • #4
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,540 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    You cross the tracks there and then have a cycle lane for a few dozen metres before it end in the middle of a footpath stranding you...
    It's yet another one to be avoided in favour of road use


  • #5
    Raam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,318 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    kincsem wrote: »
    Nice placement of signs. They hide the Luas perfectly.

    The Críoch / End sign with the bike image must mean "this is the end of your cycling career".

    I would move my head so that the sign is not in the way. I'm clever, me.


  • #6
    Bigcheeze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Bigcheeze


    Raam wrote: »
    I would move my head so that the sign is not in the way.

    That's evolution for you


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  • #7
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Lusk Doyle wrote: »
    Any pics from slightly further back? I don't see the issue from these pics. The cycle track ends and surely one would stop and look before attempting to cross the luas.

    The pics are taken at my standing level (ie where I'd be stopped on a bike) and on one of the spots right at the tracks where cyclists could / would / do stop and look for a Luas comming.

    I have some more more pics from a little further back just where the cycle track markings end and you get the same result, just a slightly diffrent angle (the other pics are zoomed in, but regardless, the Luas is hidden for seconds behind the sign, so it's still a blind spot).

    There's no way a sign like the cycle track sign or any sign really should be at eye level at a crossing.


  • #8
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Raam wrote: »
    I would move my head so that the sign is not in the way. I'm clever, me.

    Yes, I would and did so too before crossing, but maybe not everybody would and it's bad design to create blind spots at crossings.

    And remember, the above were taken in good conditions on a clear day in daylight.


  • #9
    Raam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,318 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    monument wrote: »
    Yes, I would and did so too before crossing, but maybe not everybody would and it's bad design to create blind spots at crossings.

    And remember, the above were taken in good conditions on a clear day in daylight.

    Yeah you're right. Not quite the same, but on the Clontarf track there are a couple of sign posts right in the middle of the track to signal a break in it. I saw a bloke cycle straight into one of them once.


  • #10
    Lusk Doyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭Lusk Doyle


    And people laughed at Darwin?


  • #11
    Lusk Doyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭Lusk Doyle


    Raam wrote: »
    Yeah you're right. Not quite the same, but on the Clontarf track there are a couple of sign posts right in the middle of the track to signal a break in it. I saw a bloke cycle straight into one of them once.

    Another of your famous out of body experiences?


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  • #12
    Raam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,318 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    Lusk Doyle wrote: »
    Another of your famous out of body experiences?

    I was actually running alongside the track on the grass and he was watching me, for whatever reason, and rode straight into the yoke. Clown.


  • #13
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,540 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Raam wrote: »
    I was actually running alongside the track on the grass and he was watching me, for whatever reason, and rode straight into the yoke. Clown.

    no doubt waiting for you to put a foot on the cycle track so he could shout at you.
    :D


  • #14
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    May be best not to make jokes on this thread.


  • #15
    Lusk Doyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭Lusk Doyle


    monument wrote: »
    May be best not to make jokes on this thread.

    Why?


  • #16
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    I have often driven down this road, never really paying attention to they cycle path.

    But I decided to cycle down the other morning and could not believe how suddenly the cycle path stopped. These pictures wouldn't be out of place in 'You laugh you lose'.

    I had to wait there for a minute waiting for a gap to appear in the traffic so I could move out on to the road....didn't look across the luas track, does the cycle path continue there?


  • #17
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,540 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    keith16 wrote: »
    .didn't look across the luas track, does the cycle path continue there?

    sorta
    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    You cross the tracks there and then have a cycle lane for a few dozen metres before it ends in the middle of a footpath stranding you...
    It's yet another one to be avoided in favour of road use


  • #18
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    sorta

    Ok sorry, looks like I took the right option...but I just couldn't believe how it ended so abruptly to the point that I shouted "what the hell is this" and then looked around to see if anyone heard me, sure enough there was onther guy on a bike looking at me like I had ten heads :o


  • #19
    RobertFoster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    I could hear the Jaws theme in my head as I scrolled down through the pictures. There was the big DUH-DUH! at 15:30:43 when Luas poked his head around the sign and the crescendo at 15:30:47.

    I don't really see the benefit of all the yield markings and signs at regular intervals on cycle paths -- who are they aimed at, who heeds them, who enforces them?


  • #20
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Lusk Doyle wrote: »
    Why?

    Somebody was seioursly injured recently at this crossing.

    To be very clear: I am not saying or implying the blind spot played any part, I am just posting to warn cyclists and generally highlight this poor design.


  • #21
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Lusk Doyle wrote: »
    And people laughed at Darwin?
    I think you're confusing him with George Carlin. They look alike.


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  • #22
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    RobertFoster wrote: »
    I don't really see the benefit of all the yield markings and signs at regular intervals on cycle paths -- who are they aimed at, who heeds them, who enforces them?

    Yield markings are useful when used correctly. They serve to warn you that you are losing priority, should watch out for conflicting traffic and wait until it's safe to proceed.

    Unfortunately they are misused a lot on cycle lanes. For example on the N11 going north there are dozens of yield markings at private driveways. They shouldn't be there, motorists leaving private property should be yielding to people on the public thoroughfare not the other way round. A cycle path shouldn't have dozens of yields where the adjacent road has none. All these yield signs serve to do is cover the ass of someone who was worried their badly designed cycle path was going to cause problems and as a side effect reduce the effectiveness of every yield marking that actually has a valid reason to be there.


  • #23
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Overuse also serves to erode any effectiveness of the yield markings may have.

    Just as putting cycle paths on footpaths helps cyclists think there's no harm in cycling on the footpath.


  • #24
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Whenever two lanes meet, be they standard road lanes or cycle lanes, priority has to be established, either implicitly by laws or explicitly by signage.

    That cars coming out of their driveways should get priority over bicycles already on their journey, overturning decades of convention in establishing priority, tells you a great deal about how cyclists are seen by the local authorities.


  • #25
    LaFlammeRouge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 177 ✭✭LaFlammeRouge


    What junction did the cyclist get critically injured in the Luas/cyclist collision in Sandyford a couple of weeks ago? Was it this one?


  • #26
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    LaFlammeRouge wrote: »
    What junction did the cyclist get critically injured in the Luas/cyclist collision in Sandyford a couple of weeks ago? Was it this one?

    Yes, it was this one.


  • #27
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,314 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    keith16 wrote: »
    I have often driven down this road, never really paying attention to they cycle path.

    But I decided to cycle down the other morning and could not believe how suddenly the cycle path stopped. These pictures wouldn't be out of place in 'You laugh you lose'.

    I had to wait there for a minute waiting for a gap to appear in the traffic so I could move out on to the road....didn't look across the luas track, does the cycle path continue there?

    You cycled ON the cycle path?? I thought us cyclists never used cycle lanes?


  • #28
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    You cycled ON the cycle path?? I thought us cyclists never used cycle lanes?

    Indeed! What was I thinking! Serves me right come to think of it!


  • #29
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Reply from the Railway Safety Commission...
    Dear Mr Ginty,

    Further to your email of 29th September, an RSC Inspector reviewed the information you sent through and was in agreement that there was indeed a possible ‘blind spot’ created by the positioning of the ‘Cycle lane –END’ sign. The RSC contacted Veolia, the Railway Undertaking responsible for the operating the Dublin Luas, who advised they would look into same and revert.

    Yesterday we received confirmation from Veolia that the sign was removed and suitably relocated thereby eliminating the possible ‘blind spot’.

    Thank you for bringing your safety concern to our attention.

    Kind Regards,

    ...
    Railway Safety Commission


  • #30
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Great work!

    (That use of "revert" I always find odd, and it seems to be peculiar to people from India and Ireland. Makes me think of them sitting in a ditch, wearing David Banner-style shredded trousers, wondering what mayhem they wreaked before they reverted.)


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  • #31
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,540 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    RSC wrote:
    and suitably relocated

    where I wonder, to a pole in the middle of the lane :D

    TBH monument that sign is the least of the problems with that lane, it really should continue on the other side rather than stopping or shouldn't exist at all in favour or a proper on road one.


  • #32
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Well done on this. I am actually shocked by this. It may be the first time I've heard of a state agency simply acknowledging a safety problem with a piece of cycling infrastructure when pointed out to them.


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