Air to Water Heat Pumps

BryanF wrote: »

BUt I wonder would people be so inclined on ASHP's if the 'Eco bling' titles were removed. and wasn't this all supposed to be about reducing energy consumption? this report suggests there is not much of that being done compared to conventional gas, that was my point
yes but is this 'fingers crossed stuff' with the way things are going currently. its like the ghosts estates the infrastructure should have been built first!
I agree, infrastructure first.

I fully agree that many people would not select HP's if the eco bling was removed and yes this is about energy conservation. However, my point is that the report does not state that they are worse than conventional gas. They may not be much more efficient ... Presumably also from a cost point of view this is especially the case if you have access to natural gas - not so sure if depending on LPG.

On the 'fingers crossed issue' I see it slightly differently. I think if you always wait for the infrastructure to be in place you never change. A heating system is a long term investment and consequently there is always an element of 'fingers crossed' in this decision. In selecting oil my fingers would be crossed that oil prices/supply won't change dramatically. Look at the natural gas supply crisis in the UK/Europe last year with Russia effectively turning off the tap because of a dispute with one one country in which this gas supply is routed. Long term decisions always have an element of risk in my view. I bought a diesel car last year and hoped that diesel prices would remain cheaper than petrol and Govt would not change CO2 rules for road tax ... how foolproof is that decision in the long term?

BryanF wrote: »

yep I agree, I don't dispute the need for energy independence and stopping fossil fuel use. I'm an advocate for wind, wave and solar, but also of the need for energy reduction and the building of low carbon homes not just hiding fossil fuel use at the end point and increasing its use at the primary power plant end.
the report is not going to say ASHP's are any worse than Gas, as the author is in the HP business, he simply used gas and oil as a comparison and I singled out gas as its the main ingredient in Ireland's energy plan for the next 50 years, until we can up our renewable's sufficiently. so your 'long term' investment will still have a smell of gas off it albeit at the power-plant end...
interestingly the article talks about ASHP's use when a house is not near the gas grid, I would argue that a lot of rural Ireland is off the gas grid but I would prefer to see low carbon in use buildings running at the minimal amount of biomass over an electric ASHP system at least until such systems dramatically increase in efficiency

Essentially we are in agreement in relation to low energy consumption and the use of renewables to the greatest extent possible particular in the longer term. However, although given their long term nature there is by necessity an element of the fingers crossed approach to the decisions on heating systems - I don't intend changing my decision on my heating system unless a catastrophe happens!! - we also have to operate in the here in now. In theory I would like a passive type house but I didn't do enough research before I started off and listened to people around me and engineers (hadn't heard of a heating engineer!!) telling me what were the min requirements for the Regs and acted accordingly. Now knowing a whole lot more (but still not half enough) about the whole area I wouldn't have started from where I did but there you go ...

You say you are a supporter of renewables, wind, solar, wave, and to me going with a heat pump would allow me to access renewable energy generated in Ireland and supplied through the grid, whereas going with oil and gas would probably mean (you'd never know about the corrib and other gas finds - fingers crossed) a continued reliance on foreign fossil fuels. Probably silly idea and taken without considering all aspects of the decision but there you are. We all have to make decisions, very often in the absence of full information and necessary expertise, and for expensive decisions we have to stick with them.

So in my case roll on with renewables developments as 'my fingers crossed' decision depends on it. The reason I went with Airtricity was that they claim to have a higher renewables component to their electricity and I get a warmer glow from the heat generated:D from their supply. I wonder should I start a campaign to reduce the 2.7 primary energy factor when receiving electricity from Airtricity:) - would be great for the Part L renewables requirement

galwaytt wrote: »

Frankly, nonsense.
Please show me evidence of this 'vendetta' against HP, of any type.

Considering my house is designed and plumbed for one, that the supplier of same was in to me yesterday, and is due to visit the house shortly to spec a unit for it, and that in my working capacity, that we manufacture product fitted with them day-in and day-out, and we as a company have two buildings heated by ASHP........I'll be interested to see what you come up with.....

Indeed, based on that, I have more HP experience than you do.

If the typo was obvious, I would have said so.



Indeed, but until you show me where I've bad-mouthed HP, I think you need to retract your rant.

Point taken Galwaytt. I'm afraid I lost the head a bit there, apologies. I agree that I have little to no expertise on heat pumps and am relying only on experiences of others! The 'vendetta' comment shouldn't have been directed against you personally but I think there are a number of contributors who at every opportunity seek to rant against HP installations without giving a balanced view and considering how the option might have merits in a particular circumstance or suits a person's personal preference. There are no right or wrongs here and in my view that is difficult to interpret from some of the discussion on this topic.

galwaytt wrote: »

Me too. Mea Culpa.

Yep, no 'right' or 'wrong' - just 'different' : applies to all manner of things (not just building !)

All good

A voice of reason in a turbulent world:)

If a Heat pump gives a COP of 1.7 it is the same price to run as a 90% efficient oil boiler with oil at 90 cent per litre.

Primary energy in Ireland is 2.3.

Please differentiate cost from energy as they are different topics.

Look at the price per Kwh in all cases. The heat pump Air/Ground is far cheaper. End Point Heat pump is cheaper than oil.