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Ban on "boy racer" cars

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  • 17-11-2005 10:04am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭


    Just heard about this on the radio this morning. Apparently Ivor Callelly is introducing a law that cars with tinted windows, loud exhausts or double exhausts will all fail the NCT. Does anyone know where we can see more details about this? It sounds like a major pain in the ass for anyone who likes their cars. Ivor Callellys website says nothing about this. Sounds like another bit of baiting on certain members of society to suit those who disapprove of young people in nice cars.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Bartonprince


    Thats stupid. Some people think cars shouldn't be changed. boring old mammy cars. Like mine. But if someone is an enthusiast then let them alter their car. it doesn't hurt anyone. just makes anyone driving them look like assholes to non enthusiasts. thats their problem.

    Thats kinda like banning people from painting their sitting room because it's to boring looking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,302 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    There are already regulations regarding the noiuse levels from exhausts. This is a photo op, a kind of 'hey look at me, I'm doing trying to do something', nothing more. As to the 'nice cars', a sports exhaust is can be more commonly found on a ****box covered in stickers than on a nice car, but of course that's very subjective.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I don't Ivor Callelly has the authority to introduce laws. He's probably just going to recommend it to the Dail.

    Tbh, certain things like tinted windows, overly loud exhausts, extra bright halogens and other non-necessary lighting need to be banned, but other than that people should be free to modify their vehicles if they wish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭ambro25


    (re. exhaust), I guess that's put me off putting the scooby on IE plates for a while further then, until the situation is ascertained :D;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,582 ✭✭✭maidhc


    People who make their 1.0L cars sound like 3.5HP Briggs & Stratton engines for no reason should fail. Those with big blocks and genuinely loud nice sounding exhausts shouldnt. :)

    seriously though, its a pointless suggestion if ever there was one unless:
    a) dark tinted windows are shown to be a safety hazard
    b) Bigger exhausts causes the car to fail emissions (i.e. no cat), and/or they are so loud as to be an unjustifiable nuisance


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Archeron


    seamus wrote:
    I don't Ivor Callelly has the authority to introduce laws. He's probably just going to recommend it to the Dail.

    Tbh, certain things like tinted windows, overly loud exhausts, extra bright halogens and other non-necessary lighting need to be banned, but other than that people should be free to modify their vehicles if they wish.

    Good point,People should be free to drive what they want, be it laughable to everyone else or not. If a man wants to drive a luminous green Micra with 24 inch wheels, then what harm will it do? If Callelly wants to do a public service, then why not ban the bull bars on 4x4s as many many people have suggested. on 90% they are pointless and deadly to pedestrians when in urban environments. Surely this is more important than tinted windows on small cars?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 939 ✭✭✭chicken_food


    So then the 'normal' cars like the Fords ST220, its got the dual exhausts(not too loud tho)- extra bright halogen lights (standard) and a light to medium tint as standard. I can think of a handful of other cars that will fall into that category. Its a complete joke. If it was a ban on AFTERMARKET tints,exhausts etc then i would be the first to agree.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Ag marbh


    Banning tinted windows is a bit much but i'm all for the other crap.


  • Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭aw


    If it was a ban on AFTERMARKET tints,exhausts etc then i would be the first to agree.


    I got the impression that this was what he meant.
    If it's done by the manufacturer it might be ok.
    But modifications done by the owners themselves aren't allowable.

    That's what I thought he meant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Ag marbh wrote:
    Banning tinted windows is a bit much but i'm all for the other crap.
    Banning tinted windows is one of the main ones. Tinted windows are a safety hazard for all other road users, not just the driver, because they reduce visibility. For example - if I'm driving behind you, and you have tinted windows, I can't see what's in front of you. That's a case of you affecting my ability to drive safely, forcing me to take extra care.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    the decision is whats going to banned will be made by SIMI and guards....

    also , its going to start on 01/06....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Seanie M


    Thats kinda like banning people from painting their sitting room because it's to boring looking.

    Wow, must have taken you a while to use the ole noggin to come up with that comparison!


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,455 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Well, there's "tinted" and there's "tinted" isn't there? I don't think anyone here would disagree that there comes a point when too much tinting can be classed as dangerous, i.e. if I can't see you through them what are the chances of you seeing a pedestrian or a cyclist, say, on a dark, rainy morning in November? In the UK, the police have been issued with meters that can objectively measure light transmission, but here it's still entirely subjective.

    Same goes for exhausts. There's some tw@t in a "modified" 1.0 Starlet who lives down my road whose exhaust is so loud, I can hear it above the telly when he drives past, and at 3am on a Saturday morning it's been known to wake me up!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭MercMad


    I think the deals is that he wants to see existing regulations enforced. there are strict laws about tinted glass, degree of shading etc. and there are alsoi strict EU laws about noise emmisions.

    If these are enforced it should be a good thing ! IMO it shouldn't spoil anyones fun though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭bmoferrall


    seamus wrote:
    Banning tinted windows is one of the main ones. Tinted windows are a safety hazard for all other road users, not just the driver, because they reduce visibility. For example - if I'm driving behind you, and you have tinted windows, I can't see what's in front of you. That's a case of you affecting my ability to drive safely, forcing me to take extra care.

    Let them ban SUVs and Jeeps so. I can't see through those fecking things for their height.

    Callely is just trying to justify his existence...nothing will come of all this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Seanie M


    seamus wrote:
    Tbh, certain things like tinted windows, overly loud exhausts, extra bright halogens and other non-necessary lighting need to be banned, but other than that people should be free to modify their vehicles if they wish.

    I agree. The whole thing with some prat with an OTT exhaust just so that people will rubberneck is really, REALLY stupid. Its very annoying for their neighbours, and the 'boy racers' somehow must be deaf, or at least have ripped up their living room carpet to insulate the car from the damned noise those exhausts produce.

    I wonder do they realise that the 1.6i engine under the bonnet still sounds like a 1.6i engine under a bonnet, and that the stupid exhaust noise can be seperated (back of the car) from the engine noise (front of the car)... Its doesn't make their car sound beefier, it makes it sound NOISIER!!

    Seanie.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭dahooligan


    There are laws for all of these things already - there is a legal restriction on the severity of the tint (40% I think?!) and there are already regulations on the noise outputs for exhausts and engines.. so, there are laws and regulations controlling the situation, but no one is enforcing the law so an all out ban on everything is best?! Me arse.

    When I started out I was pulled by one guard on a number of things - too loud a sound system, too dark tint, too noisy exhaust etc. So I changed it all (lighter tint, lowered the sound and changed the exhaust) and the guard was happy and so was I, a compromise was reached! He knew that I wasn't a danger cos I'd poured €20,000 into me car and I wasn't likely to go racing around and risk crashing it... its all about compromise. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    bmoferrall wrote:
    Let them ban SUVs and Jeeps so. I can't see through those fecking things for their height.
    That's how they come as stock. Their very nature requires other vehicles to be cautious because they limit visibility - the same goes for vans, trucks and busses. Modifying your vehicle to actually make it more dangerous for other road users though is just moronic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭Soupi


    i couldn't believe it when i heard about this on the radio. it's always the same with the government, they stereotype because of their own ignorance and greediness.

    i used to go to all the cruises when i first started to drive as i have a huge passion for cars and motorbikes and the one thing i noticed was that although to people who drive standard mammy wagons these "boy racers" look like **j*ts they have a passion for motors too and the only reason why they do things to their 1.0 - 1.3 cars is because they can't get insured on any decent cars. i'll admit that there are some who take the p*ss when it comes to mods,ie: neons, spin back hubs, go fast strips, etc, but there are also alot that have their motors tastefully done and take great care of them.

    at the end of the day i'd rather see young fellas saving up to get their own car when they turn 17 and spending all their money and time on them because it keeps them away from bigger problems, ie: drugs, binge drinking, etc.

    who are the government to say that tinted windows etc make people drive faster when they don't understand the type of people who are stereotyped "boy racers". there's always gonna be people that drive fast whether they have mods or not.

    also alot of the executive cars have tinted windows and alot of the TDs cars have tinted windows. i'm getting a Lexus in the new year and am worried because they usually come with tinted windows and i don't want to compromise the look of my car because of their ignorance! :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭flanzer


    Don't think this'll happen. Sure Bertie's son-in-law and all his bandmates have tarted up, windows tinted, cars and SUVs :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I heard something briefly about this on RTE Radio 1 this morning, but to be honest I didn’t listen to the whole article.

    I think what needs to be addressed is why some of these cars are being “modded”. I was talking to a guy I know who is an accident investigator last week about where the line lies between having a hobby of modding your car for visual reasons, and for speed reasons.

    I personally can’t understand why someone would spend ten of fifteen thousand Euro on doing a car up, when in actuality is can only legally perform as well on Irish roads as your bog-standard 1.1L Nissan Micra. I have no problem with the fact that people have their cars as a hobby, much the same as I would have sports, or electronics. But I don’t see the reasoning behind souping a car up to the point of a Harrier jump-jet, when you still can only travel at 50 km/h on the local roads.

    Some car enthusiasts will argue that they have a hobby with their cars much like some people have with modding their PCs. Granted a fair point, but also a facile argument.

    Lets say for example that Paddy is a car enthusiast, and he buys a 2000 Audi with the intention of adding bit and pieces to it. It’s not uncommon for some people to sink €10k into a car. Now if he is modding his car because he enjoys driving it and he enjoys working on it and adding the various features, and “pimping” it, then that’s all well and good. He's a safe driver who abides by the rules of the road. If he does it because he like to show the car off and meet other like-minded drivers, then fair play to him. He’s investing his time and money in his hobby.

    Then you have John, who enjoys building his computers, and has the specs on his boards.ie sig. Just like Paddy, he enjoys tinkering with computers, working on them, adding the various features etc, and talking about his hobby with like-minded people. Once again, that’s completely acceptable. He is investing his time and money in his hobby, and he is doing it for his personal satisfaction because he enjoys it, and it doesn’t affect anyone else.

    On the other hand lets say Paddy does his car up because he likes to show the boys and girls how cool he is, and he likes to head to the car-park, or main road every week to meet and race against other drivers; He drives in a way that’s both dangerous and illegal, and he is a danger in this car to both himself and other road users. That’s what we need to get rid of. It would be the same situation if John was modding his computer to make is faster so he could start a spamming operation or running an illegal child-porn website from his house. Modding the object because you enjoy it and it’s your hobby is no problem. But modding it because you want to use it to break the law, is not on.

    Just my 2 c


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Here's an article from the IT a few months ago which is worth a look...
    A speeding car culture in the Inishowen area is a major factor in the high level of road deaths there, writes Kathy Sheridan in Co Donegal

    After 18 months of multiple tragedies and indescribable trauma for the people of the Inishowen peninsula, the battle-lines are drawn. The Garda is not doing enough, say the people. The people will not stand up and be counted, insists the Garda.

    Co Donegal is second only to the Louth-Meath area in the road death league. Twenty-six people have died on the county's roads in 2005 and Inishowen has had more than its share. Over the past 18 months, 25 people have died on the peninsula's roads, 20 of them aged under 30. This year alone, Inishowen gardaí, headquartered at Buncrana, have documented 47 collisions involving serious injury, another 46 involving minor injuries and 131 involving material damage. A look at the panel reveals a pattern: late nights, weekends, speed and youth are among the linking factors. Sometimes alcohol is in the mix, although rarely among the under-40s.

    The senior garda in Buncrana, Supt Vincent O'Brien, talks knowledgably, sometimes wearily, about the car rallying "culture" endemic in the region - a spin-off from the Donegal International Car Rally, the Circuit of Ireland and the vibrant tradition just across the Border - and the huge pride the "boy racers" take in their cars.

    This is an area with the highest percentage of early school-leavers in the country, where the boys traditionally head for the building industry at 15 or 16. "They go to Dublin, work there from Monday to Friday, and earn vast sums of up to €1,500 a week, so they can afford their fast cars", says Supt O'Brien.

    Rear-wheel drives such as the BMW 320S, Subaru Impreza and Toyota Corolla twin cams, are particularly coveted for "doughnuts" stunts, ie burning a circle in rubber with the rear wheels. For enhanced performance, modifications such as the welding of the split differential in the rear wheels of old Sierra Saphires, are common.

    The weekend meets advertised through websites such as jon44W.com are on public roads. Last year, Buncrana gardaí were called out 13 times over one weekend to deal with road racing. In one case, up to 50 cars were racing on the N13. Two of them crashed while speeding away from patrol cars.

    Last weekend in Letterkenny, only hours after the loss of five young lives in a two-car collision near Muff, up to 500 boy racers were in the Aldi car park in Letterkenny showing off their cars and stunts.

    As well as primping, modifying and showing off cars, the practice of four or five young fellows clubbing together to buy "end-of-life" cars for as little as €30 and driving them till the engine goes or they crash is also common.

    Late-night quad racing on public roads is another Co Donegal phenomenon. These quads, according to Supt O'Brien who describes them as "lethal weapons", cost up to €5,000 and are often given as birthday presents to children aged 10 to 15 by their parents.

    WHAT BAFFLES HIM and other senior gardaí in the area is a perceived lack of co-operation from parents and adults generally in accident prevention strategies. "Locals see those young fellows on the road with the end-of-life cars but they say nothing . . . Or they will report it anonymously and won't get involved in subsequent court cases. They're not prepared to stand up and be counted. Guards go to warn parents about their children racing quads and get no co-operation whatever. It's an Inishowen culture."

    He says wearily that gardaí are well aware of the widespread trauma caused by the death of young people on the roads and have been personally affected by it.

    "Last weekend, as a manager in charge of Inishowen, I found it most distressing that these incidents were happening on my patch - and I take it personally. We too have children and you'd be acutely aware of the risks they face as a driver or passenger on the roads."

    After the triple tragedy in July last year, in which 16-year-old Áine O'Leary, the niece of a local sergeant, was killed, "a boyracers target group" was set up by Chief Supt Noel V White. In three months, 200 cars were seized for being dangerously defective or being modified without notifying insurance companies.

    "But despite what we were finding, the general attitude of parents was that their sons were being harassed," recalls Supt O'Brien.

    It is believed that in a significant number of fatal accident cases, the young drivers had already come to the attention of gardaí and been cautioned.

    A STRING OF strategies has included an educational video, compiled and presented by gardaí to transition year and Leaving Cert students throughout Co Donegal, featuring fatal accident survivors such as Liz Anne O'Keeffe and parents of deceased young victims. "Most of the teachers and pupils were stunned into silence - and that lasted for a while. It lasted until the students started driving themselves," said Supt O'Brien.

    As well as participating in ongoing initiatives from the multi-disciplinary Donegal Road Safety working group, the Garda here is also running a Driver Improvement Programme - a day of classroom and driving work - in conjunction with the District Court, designed to focus young drivers on the limitations of their own experience. The offender pays €225 for the course and if he can satisfy the judge that he has learned from it, may escape disqualification.

    But the depth of the challenge is reflected in the behaviour of one young man last year, who drove through the same static Garda check point three times on the same night, each time without a seat belt, knowing it was costing him two penalty points a time.

    "Society in general must accept ownership for the carnage on our roads today", says Supt O'Brien. "I am acutely aware of the trauma these tragedies bring to families. But we can only work with the community to prevent more of them."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭testicle


    seamus wrote:
    Banning tinted windows is one of the main ones. Tinted windows are a safety hazard for all other road users, not just the driver, because they reduce visibility. For example - if I'm driving behind you, and you have tinted windows, I can't see what's in front of you. That's a case of you affecting my ability to drive safely, forcing me to take extra care.

    Never driven behind a Bus, Truck or Van then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Corben Dallas


    "I got the impression that this was what he meant.
    If it's done by the manufacturer it might be ok.
    But modifications done by the owners themselves aren't allowable"

    so by this rational....if u can afford to go out and buy a new car from a dealer, Ford ST150 or whatever(paying €30K+) with halogen lights, tints etc fitted as standard thats ok, but if u buy a cheaper car and decide to fit them yourself(lets say the exact same parts) thats not?

    What yur suggesting is wealth based law, so rich kids can have these mods but less well off ppl cant...... :(
    SNOB!


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    "I got the impression that this was what he meant.
    If it's done by the manufacturer it might be ok.
    But modifications done by the owners themselves aren't allowable"

    so by this rational....if u can afford to go out and buy a new from a dealer Ford ST150 or whatever(paying €30K+) with halogen tints etc fitted as standard thats ok, but if u buy a cheaper car and decide to fit them yourself(lets say the exact same parts) thats not?

    What yur suggesting is wealth based law, so rich kids can have these mods but less well off ppl cant...... :(
    SNOB!

    What he's suggesting that modifications that are done incorrectly and that affect other road users safety and the safety of the driver themselves should be outlawed. Its nothing to do with class distinction, so come up with a tangible arguement. The primary function of a vehicle is to take passengers from point A to point B in a safe and efficient manner.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 881 ✭✭✭Ernie Ball


    This is just political grandstanding by Callely. You want to crack down on boy racers? How about enforcing existing laws?

    Frankly, more annoying (and often dangerous) than some tw*t in a car with an exhaust are the morons who drive around with their fog lights on all the time. Most of them are not boy racers. So how about a law on that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,450 ✭✭✭blastman


    bruachain wrote:
    What he's suggesting that modifications that are done incorrectly and that affect other road users safety and the safety of the driver themselves should be outlawed. Its nothing to do with class distinction, so come up with a tangible arguement. The primary function of a vehicle is to take passengers from point A to point B in a safe and efficient manner.

    The change in the law doesn't mention whether the mods are done incorrectly or not, it just says they will not be allowed. The argument is a valid one (without the class part).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Borzoi


    Ernie Ball wrote:
    This is just political grandstanding by Callely. You want to crack down on boy racers? How about enforcing existing laws?

    ?


    Totally agree - enforcement of existing laws is the first thing.

    @Corben Dallas - watch it there sunshine, no need for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    blastman wrote:
    The change in the law doesn't mention whether the mods are done incorrectly or not, it just says they will not be allowed. The argument is a valid one (without the class part).

    Granted, my bad.

    I'm sure you'll agree that there are modifications that are solely designed for performance and speed purposes as opposed to purely aesthetical changes.

    It is these former issue that is a problem


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭Soupi


    bruachain wrote:
    On the other hand lets say Paddy does his car up because he likes to show the boys and girls how cool he is, and he likes to head to the car-park, or main road every week to meet and race against other drivers; He drives in a way that’s both dangerous and illegal, and he is a danger in this car to both himself and other road users. That’s what we need to get rid of. It would be the same situation if John was modding his computer to make is faster so he could start a spamming operation or running an illegal child-porn website from his house. Modding the object because you enjoy it and it’s your hobby is no problem. But modding it because you want to use it to break the law, is not on.

    i don't agree, i think that if a "boy racer" wants to drive fast he's going to whether he has modded his car or not. there are fellas who do it to look cool but they wouldn't dare risk crashing their car because of the time and money they've put into it. i see fellas flying aroung in clapped out corsas, micras, starlets,etc with no modds on them.

    i just don't see why people stereotype drivers because of what their car looks like. it'd be like me saying that every man that's between the ages of 50-65 haven't got a clue how to drive because of the amount of experiences i've had with them but i'm not gonna say that because i know that they are a minority and that people can't be judged by their age alone!


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