Ongoing problems with bus route 15X

leche solara · 24-02-2007 5:05pm #1

I am experiencing ongoing and worsening problems with the 15X bus.
There are two issues:

1. This bus only runs once a day from Belfield to Templeogue and is an express which charges a premium fare. Sometime last year the first city centre bus stop was moved from College Street to Eden Quay. In keeping with Dublin Bus best practice this move wasn't announced in advance, nor was there even any signs put up to divert passengers to the new stop. The reason was never given, but it does seem crazy that a bus route that starts and finishes on the southside should make a brief trip across the Liffey and back again. Since the bus is now forced across the river the service has gone to hell. I am now keeping a record and in the last 2 weeks(Mon to Fri) the bus was on time (5pm) at Eden Quay 3 times, late 4 times and didn't arrive at all the other 3 times. When the first city centre stop was College St there was a strong presence of inspectors, but since it has gone northside these have gone. Maybe they weren't told where the bus went either.

2. At Rathgar the bus, instead of going on to Terenure and turning left onto Rathfarnham Road, goes down Orwell Road and on to Bushy Park Road and accesses Rathfarnham Road from there. The problem here is that the lights allowing traffic from Bushy Park Road to Rathfarnham Road only allow 2-3 vehicles through before they change. It can often take 30 minutes to get off Bushy Park Road. Express Bus my arse! This is particularly frustrating because the bus dosen't need to take that route as, being an express it has no stops between Richmond St and Rathfarnham. Some drivers have the wit to take the preferred route but they are a very small minority.

I have written/and or emailed the Chief Executive of Dublin Bus, most of my local TDs, local councillors, Martin Cullen, and not one of these eminent people have ever even replied. I have phoned Ringsend Garage from freezing Eden Quay to be told that the bus left on time, and when I tell them if it had been on time I'd have been on it, they say something like Oh it must be late. Can these people not tell where their buses are by SATNAV or something.

I know there are other victims of this bus route who have been making phonecalls and writing letters too.

Where can I take my gripe to now given that I am being ignored by everyone?
I know what I will be saying to politicians when they come looking for my vote.

KC61 · 24-02-2007 9:25pm

leche solara wrote:

I am experiencing ongoing and worsening problems with the 15X bus.
There are two issues:

1. This bus only runs once a day from Belfield to Templeogue and is an express which charges a premium fare. Sometime last year the first city centre bus stop was moved from College Street to Eden Quay. In keeping with Dublin Bus best practice this move wasn't announced in advance, nor was there even any signs put up to divert passengers to the new stop. The reason was never given, but it does seem crazy that a bus route that starts and finishes on the southside should make a brief trip across the Liffey and back again. Since the bus is now forced across the river the service has gone to hell. I am now keeping a record and in the last 2 weeks(Mon to Fri) the bus was on time (5pm) at Eden Quay 3 times, late 4 times and didn't arrive at all the other 3 times. When the first city centre stop was College St there was a strong presence of inspectors, but since it has gone northside these have gone. Maybe they weren't told where the bus went either.

The move to Eden Quay was advertised on the Dublin Bus website in advance of the change, which took place on 9th April last year. The reason for the move was that the 15/15A/15B/15C terminus was moved to Eden Quay when the 50/56A/77/77A all moved their terminus to Ringsend Garage. Dublin City Council did not want a terminus on College Street. Now perhaps there is an argument that the 15X should by-pass the stop on Eden Quay, but the sole reason for the diversion is to serve the 15/A/B/C terminus.

As for inspectors - there is a stance inspector on Eden Quay - he is usually to be found further down the Quay than the 15 stop at the area where the buses park.

shltter · 24-02-2007 10:13pm

Try ringing Ringsend during the day and speaking to a manager

Ringing at 5pm will only get you through to a depot inspector who has as much power to change things as me and you.

The chances are that the manager has no idea of the routing problems that you have identified if there is no reason for the bus to go that way then it should not be a big issue to change it( not talking about the eden quay problem unfortunately you are probably stuck with that one.)

Don't presume that because you have rang Ringsend and spoke to someone that the people capable of making a change are aware of the problem.

Chase up the inspector on the quays he is more than likely the one controlling that road so he would have a better idea than the garage where your bus is also because he is face to face it is harder for him to ignore you.

AlekSmart · 25-02-2007 12:40am

Leche,You identify one of the prime areas where Dublin Bus are falling down for the want of interest at middle/higher management level.

Put at its simplest,the provision of Express Services which actually conform to any accepted definition of the name COULD be a nice little earner for the company whilst delivering a highly desirable customer focused product.

The present arrangements for Xpresso branded services are largely a hotch-potch of sticky-tape and glue.

There is little doubt but that this particular 15X should be operating via the Pearse St "Bus Gate" and onwards for its outward journey.
The key to the success of Premium Rate services is to establish and retain a dedicated customer base who are discerning enough to pay the extra for a guaranteed level of service.

You make an interesting point also in relation to the Bushy Pk Rd issue and it is entirely believable that only some of the drivers are aware of the faster and more customer friendly Express routing.

Dublin Bus route training and the ongoing regular monitoring of routes for disruptions etc is simply not of a high enough standard and needs to be carried out on a far more professional basis than is currently the case.

I would support the views of the other respondents on this one....Get on to the Ringsend Area Manager in the first instance and be as specific as your post here.

Also if you are in the City Centre keep a beady eye out for Inspectors with a somewhat higher level of embellishment on their Caps.
These will be Chief Inspectors who have a somewhat more influential role in the OVERALL service provision and If you can put your points as clearly to one of them you might get some action.

Keep the board posted on how this goes ! :eek:

KC61 · 25-02-2007 1:10pm

leche solara wrote:

I have written/and or emailed the Chief Executive of Dublin Bus, most of my local TDs, local councillors, Martin Cullen, and not one of these eminent people have ever even replied. I have phoned Ringsend Garage from freezing Eden Quay to be told that the bus left on time, and when I tell them if it had been on time I'd have been on it, they say something like Oh it must be late. Can these people not tell where their buses are by SATNAV or something.

As our driver contributors have said, your first point of contact should be the Area Manager in Ringsend Depot, who can be contacted during business hours. And there is always an inspector on the quays - bus as I said he's not necessarily at the bus stop, but rather further down where the buses stand.

Due to a lack of government investment, the only way that Dublin Bus controllers can tell where a bus is at any particular point in time is by calling the driver over the radio. They have no visual display of where any of their fleet of buses are. A new GPS tracking system is now (at last) being developed, to be completed within 18 months (mid-2009), which will then lead onto Real Time Passenger Information at bus stops to be rolled out across the network by early 2011. The combination of both of these will result in far greater control of buses with a controller becoming aware of any problems far more quickly than heretofore and being able to take action to correct it.

It probably comes as a surprise to many posters, but many routes are controlled by stance inspectors who are located on-street (usually in the city centre).

AlekSmart · 25-02-2007 4:27pm

This is one of those threads which serve to underline the essentially simple nature of the Concept of Public Transport.
However coincedentally it also underlines our native inability to grasp simple concepts and keep them that way.

We stare in wonderment at the benefits and desirability of GPRS,WLAN,BlueToof and all those other highly desirable systems without which it seems the average Motorist cannot now venture beyond their driveway.

I venture to advise a cautious approach to the concept of Technology by itself offering sudden and immense improvments in Any given field.

Put at it`s simplest,even the most advanced of Highly Advanced microprocessor controlled Sat Nav or Vehicle Location systems counts for naught if its operated or controlled by a disinterested chimpanzee.

With 2009 given as the eventual roll-out date for the new Dublin Bus systems we may be forgiven a little burst of enthusiastic applause.
My clapping will be interspersed with a few questions as to Why exactly did CIE/Dublin Bus decommission its Automatic Vehicle Monitoring system when that system was quite effective for it`s time.
AVM was without doubt a very useful Bus Service control tool and many Controllers were highly adept at using its powers to the fullest.

It was of course by todays standards a very basic and largely analogue system which required a degree of driver co-operation to be fully effective.
The great mistake IMO was in the CIE group being starved of funding to a degree which saw AVM and other very worthwhile projects such as Selective Bus Detection (SBD) being allowed to decompose and finally die off when if properly developed we could have attained a market-leading position in what is now a very lucrative field indeed.
(Only yesterday I noticed yet another of the SBD Transponders still sitting forlornly on its Lamp Post mounting along Rathgar Rd Outbound,just up from the Church).

Equally of note was the use of an active Route Controller on the first of the Bob Montgomery inspired "City IMP" routes,the 83.
This route was controlled dynamically by the Route Inspector from 0700-1900 each weekday.
The Inspector travelled up and down on the route and could attend to incidents and generally monitor the performance of the service and also attend to the simpler supervisory items such as dealing with staff leave requests and generally acting as a conduit between Driver and Garage.

This was all possible using the old Storno Radio Control system and guess wha Gay......It worked !

It also gave the Travelling Public a clear point of reference and an understanding that there WAS a degree of supervision and accountability at work.
I think it`s fair to say that the orignial 83 CityIMP route was a very successful and popular concept which once again,having proved its worth,was then allowed to wither and finally become what it is today.......a somewhat less than successful compromise....?

Sometimes,as with this very well defined problem with the 15X,the solutions are SIMPLE and could be immediate IF we had somebody prepared to break-ranks and think outside the box.

Any takers down in Raytown.......?????? :rolleyes:

leche solara · 26-02-2007 9:02pm

Well I took the advice of some of the posters here and rang Ringsend today and asked for a manager. I was put onto a very helpful individual who seemed very sympathetic to my plight. He explained that the movement of the 15s to Eden Quay was forced on them by Dublin City Council who want no buses terminating in College St. While the 15X could still have come up Pearse St to College St, it was better to move all 15s to Eden Quay to avoid confusion to the public.

He said they were well aware of problems with most of the 15s since the move, and they were reviewing timetables and routes. They are unhappy with delays getting across the Liffey and hope to have a completely revised service by April. He intimated that the area where I live would see a vastly improved service. He also said that the Bushy Park Road issue would be taken into consideration. I came off the phone quite pleased, and surprised, I have to say, that someone in Dublin Bus seemed to care about its customers.

The 15X didn't turn up this evening. I hope I haven't gone insane before April.

KC61 · 27-02-2007 9:16am

leche solara wrote:

Well I took the advice of some of the posters here and rang Ringsend today and asked for a manager. I was put onto a very helpful individual who seemed very sympathetic to my plight. He explained that the movement of the 15s to Eden Quay was forced on them by Dublin City Council who want no buses terminating in College St. While the 15X could still have come up Pearse St to College St, it was better to move all 15s to Eden Quay to avoid confusion to the public.

He said they were well aware of problems with most of the 15s since the move, and they were reviewing timetables and routes. They are unhappy with delays getting across the Liffey and hope to have a completely revised service by April. He intimated that the area where I live would see a vastly improved service. He also said that the Bushy Park Road issue would be taken into consideration. I came off the phone quite pleased, and surprised, I have to say, that someone in Dublin Bus seemed to care about its customers.

The 15X didn't turn up this evening. I hope I haven't gone insane before April.

I cannot imagine that the 15X did not operate - it would seem that it did not serve Eden Quay? I would contact that manager again today, and make that observation. That needs to be made clear to the driver.

Does the 15X not stop in College Street at all now? I would imagine it still does. Why not go there and be guaranteed catching the bus? I know it does not solve the initial problem, but at least you will get on the bus!

Heart · 27-02-2007 11:47am

The 15/A/B/C/E/F still have a stop on College Street, presumably the 15X stops here too?

H

Victor · 27-02-2007 11:04pm

It would be interesting if one 15X came from Belfield, turned left at Leeson Street and out Earlsfort Terrace (or even Adelaide Road if already full, I wonder would it be quicker) following the normal route, while another started at Eden Quay.

The current city layour is like this:

KC61 · 28-02-2007 12:36am

Victor wrote:

It would be interesting if one 15X came from Belfield, turned left at Leeson Street and out Earlsfort Terrace (or even Adelaide Road if already full, I wonder would it be quicker) following the normal route, while another started at Eden Quay.

The current city layour is like this:

Victor, the outbound 15X is never close to full even leaving city centre - as it's too early!! Why? Because the driver starts with the 0725 inbound which means he probably starts in Ringsend at about 0645, and hence with the 12 hour spreadover he has to be back there by 1845.

What's needed is a second one leaving at 0750 perhaps and outbound from city centre at 1730, which would suit far more people in the evening than at present.

John R · 28-02-2007 9:49am

It shouldn't go to/from Belfield at all. As Victor points out it is just doubling back on itself with the current route. It is just a long congested tour of the south inner-city. Anyone from Belfield would save 15-20 mns by getting a later 10 or 46a to Leeson St and picking up the 15X on Earlsfort Terrace.

I am sure the reason the OP is having problems with it is that it gets stuck in traffic around the Merrion Sq/Pearse Street area on it's way from Belfield.

leche solara · 28-02-2007 8:56pm

KC61 wrote:

I cannot imagine that the 15X did not operate - it would seem that it did not serve Eden Quay? I would contact that manager again today, and make that observation. That needs to be made clear to the driver.

Where you say "I cannot imagine that the 15X did not operate" maybe it did operate, but if it is later than the 15C which is also frequently late then I will get the 15C instead because that way I am at least on a bus.
I wasn't in a position to contact the manager either today or yesterday but will be doing so tomorrow.

KC61 wrote:

Does the 15X not stop in College Street at all now? I would imagine it still does. Why not go there and be guaranteed catching the bus? I know it does not solve the initial problem, but at least you will get on the bus!

The 15X still stops at College Street, but where it used to come up Pearse St it now crosses Tara St Bridge to Eden Quay and then back across O'Connell Bridge to get to College St. It never bypasses Eden Quay, (until today, more about that later) so there would be no benefit in my going straight to College St, and I would only have to leave work earlier. I know it is not skipping Eden Quay because on the regular occasions when it doesn't turn up, or is extremely late, and I get the 1709 15C instead the usual 15X regulars get on at College St.

John R wrote:

It shouldn't go to/from Belfield at all.

I completely agree. The 15X should start from wherever the other 15s are starting from. When it lands at Eden Quay there is rarely anyone already on it.

KC61 wrote:

the outbound 15X is never close to full even leaving city centre - as it's too early!! Why? Because the driver starts with the 0725 inbound which means he probably starts in Ringsend at about 0645, and hence with the 12 hour spreadover he has to be back there by 1845.

What's needed is a second one leaving at 0750 perhaps and outbound from city centre at 1730, which would suit far more people in the evening than at present

This seems to be the company putting their own concerns before the concerns of their customers. If a driver feels he wont be back on time to knock off, will he not just be tempted to not drive out to the outbound terminus? While I don't get the inbound X in the morning, I have heard from some of the evening regulars that if it doesn't turn up in the morning (driver sick?) it rarely turns up that evening either.

The 1700 15X suits plenty of people. The number on it may be dropping simply because the service is so appallingly bad that they have gone elsewhere or taken a later 15C.

Anyway to continue the saga. Yesterday (Tuesday) the 15X arrived on time, and that at this stage is truly surprising. It then broke down on Rathgar Rd due to a problem with the doors! It waited for the 1709 15C to catch up, and everyone was transferred to a now packed bus. The fare for the premuim rate bus had been collected but delivery was done by a standard rate bus. About 30 minutes was spent on Bushy Park Road.

Today the 15X drove straight past the Eden Quay stop without stopping. I phoned the garage but they didnt answer. I, and all the other people waiting then had to wait in the rain for the 15C.

letterman · 01-03-2007 3:40pm

Jesus, that just sums up Dublin Bus doesn't it.

You ever complain about their shyte service and you are the worst in the world. Sounds to me like you would get home quicker if you were walking. All the pompous inspectors that I have ever dealt with would not give you the time of day when you want to complain.Too busy talking into their little toy radios to the gang in the garage reminding them that they are supposed to be on the road 5 minutes ago.:rolleyes:

shltter · 01-03-2007 3:51pm

letterman wrote:

Jesus, that just sums up Dublin Bus doesn't it.

You ever complain about their shyte service and you are the worst in the world. Sounds to me like you would get home quicker if you were walking. All the pompous inspectors that I have ever dealt with would not give you the time of day when you want to complain.Too busy talking into their little toy radios to the gang in the garage reminding them that they are supposed to be on the road 5 minutes ago.:rolleyes:

Who said that he was the worst in the world,

From my reading of the thread the OP has a number of complaints and people from DB advised him on the best way to address those complaints. The OP followed that advice and had some small measure of success although the immediate problems have not gone away he knows more now than he did prior to posting here.

shltter · 01-03-2007 4:10pm

leche solara wrote:

This seems to be the company putting their own concerns before the concerns of their customers. If a driver feels he wont be back on time to knock off, will he not just be tempted to not drive out to the outbound terminus? While I don't get the inbound X in the morning, I have heard from some of the evening regulars that if it doesn't turn up in the morning (driver sick?) it rarely turns up that evening either.

The 1700 15X suits plenty of people. The number on it may be dropping simply because the service is so appallingly bad that they have gone elsewhere or taken a later 15C.

I think what KC61 was trying to explain to you was that because of the regulatory requirement in regards to the number of hours a drivers days work can be spread over they may be timetabling that driver with an unrealistic departure time to fit it into the maximum working day.
For example they may be giving the driver 45 minutes to do a journey that normally takes 55 minutes hence the bus arrives late for the 17:00 journey.

Also KC61 was probably suggesting that as a lot of people work 9 to 5 the bus leaving at 5 is too early for those who are only finishing work then but that they could not timetable that driver for a later time as it would put him over the maximum spread over.

leche solara wrote:

Anyway to continue the saga. Yesterday (Tuesday) the 15X arrived on time, and that at this stage is truly surprising. It then broke down on Rathgar Rd due to a problem with the doors! It waited for the 1709 15C to catch up, and everyone was transferred to a now packed bus. The fare for the premuim rate bus had been collected but delivery was done by a standard rate bus. About 30 minutes was spent on Bushy Park Road.

Unfortunately these things happen whilst you could have waited for a replacement bus to be sent out it would be much quicker for you to continue your journey on the 15C.

leche solara wrote:

Today the 15X drove straight past the Eden Quay stop without stopping. I phoned the garage but they didnt answer. I, and all the other people waiting then had to wait in the rain for the 15C.

Was there any room for the driver to pull into the stop or were there buses parked at the stop. If there was room for him to pull in did anyone signal for the bus to stop it could be a new driver who was unsure of the correct stop there are 18 new drivers a week coming out of the training school at the moment.
Really you should have taken it up with the stance inspector failing that ring the garage the next day.

leche solara · 01-03-2007 9:36pm

shltter wrote:

Also KC61 was probably suggesting that as a lot of people work 9 to 5 the bus leaving at 5 is too early for those who are only finishing work then but that they could not timetable that driver for a later time as it would put him over the maximum spread over.

Lots of people now have flexi time so 5 o'clock isn't unreasonably early. Last year when the 15X was running smoothly it was almost always full, as people saw it as a dependable service. Since the service has deteriorated, many, but not all of these people have deserted to other routes or made some other arrangement.

AlekSmart wrote:

"Put at its simplest,the provision of Express Services which actually conform to any accepted definition of the name COULD be a nice little earner for the company whilst delivering a highly desirable customer focused product."

Clearly this isn't how Dublin Bus see it.

shltter wrote:

Was there any room for the driver to pull into the stop or were there buses parked at the stop. If there was room for him to pull in did anyone signal for the bus to stop it could be a new driver who was unsure of the correct stop there are 18 new drivers a week coming out of the training school at the moment.
Really you should have taken it up with the stance inspector failing that ring the garage the next day.

There was plenty of room for the bus to pull in, but it stayed out in the outside lane and just drove past. Plenty of people signalled, with many different configurations of their hand, but the driver wasn't even looking toward the stop. Its a compulsory stop so signalling shouldn't be necessary.
The stance inspector is pointless - he is too far away. He is almost down at the Liberty Hall end, while the 15s are almost at O'Connell Bridge. If I went looking for him, and then explaining what had happened, I'd have missed the 15C as well.

I phoned the manager in the garage again this morning. He wasn't quite as nice as he was the other day (I got the impression I wasn't the first person to call him about this) He said the bus should have stopped as its a compulsory stop, and he would investigate and ring me back. He didn't.

This evening at 1709 when the 15X again hadn't turned up, myself and 10 other regulars decided to take the available 15C rather than wait for a bus that might or might not come. Before the C pulled out, however, the X arrived behind it and we had time to transfer. On the X was an inspector, a driver and another driver giving directions all the way along the route. One of the other passengers was told by Dublin Bus that a new driver was being trained for the route, following the retirement of a regular driver a few months ago. Only a monopoly could leave customers swinging like this. Hopefully a new regular driver will improve things, but there is still something fundementally wrong if the bus can't arrive on time. One thing that cheered us up on the way home was watching the chap ring the bell to get off in Rathmines, and being made stay on until Rathgar Church, although by right he should have been brought to Rathfarnham.

AlekSmart · 02-03-2007 1:50am

Hang on in there Leche baby..!
Although this may seem to be damn fruitless I actually believe that if you persevere and perhaps enlist a little help from other 15X Regulars you will Triumph :eek:

There are a number of interesting points from your various postings,but the most important one by far for the company SHOULD be the loss of REGULAR 15X customers.

There is little doubt but that the ongoing turf war between Dublin City Council and Bus Atha Cliath has materially worsened travelling conditions for many thousands of Dublin Citizens and visitors alike.

The Major Policy decision by DCC to reduce or eliminate On Street Bus Terminal space has resulted in a somewhat ham fisted response from BAC largely centred around attempting to keep it`s termini as close as possible to An Lar or O Connell St.

Whilst there were a large number of consultative meetings betweeen the Council,BAC and the QBN office it appears the end result was a decision to press ahead with Terminus relocations IN THE ABSENCE of active traffic management arrangements to facilitate Bus Movements.

It is my opinion that BAC should have made some sort of stand against this practice,even if only to use it`s considerable PR muscle to advise it`s regular customers of the potential for disruption and to provide the relevant Telephone Extension numbers of the SENIOR DCC officials responsible for these decisions.

In relation to the staffing arrangements for the 15X or indeed any BAC route,while routes may have an established rota of Marked In drivers there is NO direct link between the availibility of a particular driver and the ability of his/her duty to operate.

Your 15X Departure could be operated by ANY driver from Ringsend Garage and SHOULD in terms of routing and timekeping be the same irrespective of the Driver rostered to operate it.

The "New Driver" you witnessed may well have being undergoing route training but it is highly unlikely that he/she was being trained as "Your new Mr/Miss 15X"
I am greatly heartened to hear that the Limited Stop aspect of the Xpresso concept was adhered to by the New Driver as it is central to the succes of the entire Express Service.

I would suggest that you make contact with the Customer Services Manager in BAC Head Office and continue to outline as clearly as on these boards your recent experiences.

AFAICS The two simple adjustments of Direct Line running through College Green and the elimination of the trek through Bushy Park Road would of themselves attract business back to the route.

As Far as Lettermans erudite point about "Little Toy Radios" goes he need not worry unduly as they are very expensive "Toys" indeed and form part of a new cellular based communication system sourced from a New Zealand company called Tait.

Sadly if an Inspector is to perform their duties they have to talk into the radio and the size of the unit is of little consequence,unless Letterman would prefer an old BBC Radio Van Complete with huge wire grid microphone accompanied by a semaphore backup ?

KC61 · 02-03-2007 9:52am

leche solara wrote:

Lots of people now have flexi time so 5 o'clock isn't unreasonably early. Last year when the 15X was running smoothly it was almost always full, as people saw it as a dependable service. Since the service has deteriorated, many, but not all of these people have deserted to other routes or made some other arrangement.

Clearly this isn't how Dublin Bus see it.

There was plenty of room for the bus to pull in, but it stayed out in the outside lane and just drove past. Plenty of people signalled, with many different configurations of their hand, but the driver wasn't even looking toward the stop. Its a compulsory stop so signalling shouldn't be necessary.
The stance inspector is pointless - he is too far away. He is almost down at the Liberty Hall end, while the 15s are almost at O'Connell Bridge. If I went looking for him, and then explaining what had happened, I'd have missed the 15C as well.

I phoned the manager in the garage again this morning. He wasn't quite as nice as he was the other day (I got the impression I wasn't the first person to call him about this) He said the bus should have stopped as its a compulsory stop, and he would investigate and ring me back. He didn't.

This evening at 1709 when the 15X again hadn't turned up, myself and 10 other regulars decided to take the available 15C rather than wait for a bus that might or might not come. Before the C pulled out, however, the X arrived behind it and we had time to transfer. On the X was an inspector, a driver and another driver giving directions all the way along the route. One of the other passengers was told by Dublin Bus that a new driver was being trained for the route, following the retirement of a regular driver a few months ago. Only a monopoly could leave customers swinging like this. Hopefully a new regular driver will improve things, but there is still something fundementally wrong if the bus can't arrive on time. One thing that cheered us up on the way home was watching the chap ring the bell to get off in Rathmines, and being made stay on until Rathgar Church, although by right he should have been brought to Rathfarnham.

There is no excuse for the bus not stopping - none at all.

As for the location of the stance inspector, his primary role is controlling the buses - hence he stands where the buses arrive/depart from, which is further along the quay.

Regarding the departure times I am suggesting that there is a need for at least one additional 15X. 1700 is too early for the customer - I know about flexi-time, but the vast majority of people finish work at either 1700 or 1730. I would suggest that 1745/1750 would be a good time for an additional bus to meet that demand. I was not suggesting that the timetable was unachievable - it was fine whenever I used the 15X (it usually arrived at 1655 in College Street), rather that because of the early start in the morning the evening bus had to be at 1700 ex-City Centre. Clearly something has now changed en route from Belfield to City Centre that has made this bus unreliable but nothing has been done to address this problem.

The reason that I suggested that you go to College Street was that I was under the impression that is what you used to do.

Routes 15X/49X/50X/65X/77X all operate to Belfield in the morning and then operate inbound as a 46A from different locations along the Stillorgan QBC (from Foxrock to Belfield). Why they have to start in the evening from Belfield is beyond me as no-one would use them for the entire journey. Given the reliability problems some thought should be given to perhaps ditching the Belfield legs and perhaps starting them in Docklands at the new 151 terminus? That would be far more practical!

The drivers of the 15X switch with the 15E and 15F on a thrice-weekly roster. When a driver retires there is a procedure to be followed and it can be some time before a new regular driver is "marked-in" on the route (up to 6-8 weeks Alek?).

Unfortunately cars, buses etc all break down sometime, and it is never a good time to happen!!!

As for letterman's comments. I certainly have no issue whatsoever with this poster. I am a fellow bus user and I know exactly what the issues are. I've had many dealings with Dublin Bus managers over the years, and have learnt that in general the only way to get the situation changed is to be persistent and also more importantly to get an understanding of why things happen! The key is to have the specific facts available and to communicate with the management in a constructive manner and try to get the problem solved.

leche solara · 03-03-2007 3:48pm

I've just about had it with the 15X.
Yesterday (Friday) another no show. When the 15C turned up at 1710 the only otion was to take it. If the X turned up after this it probably went out virtually empty. Dublin Bus will then conclude that no one wants it and scrap it altogether. New driver or not this service is just rotten. There is clearly a serious problem between Belfield and the City Centre, and Dublin Bus just choose to ignore it. This bus should not be coming from Belfield in the first place. It should start from the City Centre. Whatever about the suggestion of running an express bus at 1745, I still believe that there are enough people wanting one at 1700 - but these people are not being served.

I will now go for the 15C in future, as it usually turns up, and if I happen to get a late 15X I'll take that. When I started this thread a week ago I believed that the 15X service was as bad as it could get, but this week Dublin Bus proved me wrong. It could, and did, get much much worse.

Victor · 03-03-2007 4:14pm

Do I get the impression that people aren't using the Belfield-Eden Quay section in the evening because its easier to get any other bus to Leeson Street and then any 15Z outbound, rather than fighting their way all the way into the city centre and back out?

Does the same thing happen in the morning with all the Donnybrook / Belfield people hopping off at Earlsfort Terrace and getting an outbound 46A?

leche solara · 03-03-2007 4:56pm

Can't answer that one Victor, but there is never anyone on the 15X when it reaches Eden Quay. Either there's no students live out in Rathfarnham, or they've taken a different bus.

KC61 · 03-03-2007 10:36pm

Victor wrote:

Do I get the impression that people aren't using the Belfield-Eden Quay section in the evening because its easier to get any other bus to Leeson Street and then any 15Z outbound, rather than fighting their way all the way into the city centre and back out?

Does the same thing happen in the morning with all the Donnybrook / Belfield people hopping off at Earlsfort Terrace and getting an outbound 46A?

No-one in their right mind would use the 15X from Belfield to Rathfarnham when there is a perfectly good bus doing that route already and much more quickly - the 17!!!!

LiamD · 18-03-2007 8:11pm

I wish I had seen this thread earlier.....

I live in Knocklyon and my local service is the 15. I started college this year and learned pretty fast it's not easy to get into town in the morning. To be in for 9.00 I must get up at 6.30 and then get the 15 at 7.30 from Scholarstown Road or the 15X at ~7.35 from same. Any later and I must get a later 15 which WONT have me in for 9. This is crazy and most of the morning 15's 1hour+ journey is standing still on Terenure Road, even though there is a QBC there for most of the road. How can a journey which at night takes 25 mins (yes, on the bus) take up to 2 hours in the morning?

Re. the 15X, I get it outbound from Scholarstown some mornings (usually Monday, Tuesday, sometimes Friday) and it has never failed to arrive by 7.35. It is much quicker than the 15 and has me on Dawson St by ~8.15. However I do have some complaints:
-It is always one of those really old buses, despite most of the 15_s being new buses. When it rains I can't put my bag on the ground or my books get wet because the windows let the rainwater in and it collects on the window side of every seat.
-Lately it has been stopping on Rathgar road which means the 'express' bus only fails to stop in Rathmines. So basically for your premium fare it skips 3/4 stops. It may as well be a 15C.
-Larger girthed people seem to be drawn to the seat beside me on the 15X which I find quite baffling and frankly uncomfortable.

Re the general 15/A/B/C/N services, they leave a lot to be desired. The 15 is one of the slowest buses around. It never fails to stop at almost every bus stop and traffic light on the whole route. On the other hand, the faster and supposedly more frequent 15B regularly fails to turn up not just once, but twice in a row. The 15C is far too infrequent and then 15N fails to run during the week - I don't care if it only gets a few passengers, you claim to be serving the community - so bring me home at night!

Victor · 19-03-2007 12:01am

LiamD wrote:

-It is always one of those really old buses, despite most of the 15_s being new buses. When it rains I can't put my bag on the ground or my books get wet because the windows let the rainwater in and it collects on the window side of every seat.

Get a better bag.

I imagine all Expresso and other peak time only services are operated by older buses with the newer buses operating throughout the day.

LiamD · 19-03-2007 1:05am

Victor wrote:

Get a better bag.

I imagine all Expresso and other peak time only services are operated by older buses with the newer buses operating throughout the day.

I'm afraid to tell you that your imagination has let you down on this occasion. Most other Xpresso buses I see around the city are the new buses which dont have pools of water on the window side when it rains. I hope someone else can back me up on this but in particular I have never seen an 84X, 25X or 39X operate anything but a new bus.

Also just noticed this on DB website:
"We’ll be using more new buses and recruiting new drivers for the service = XPRESSO"
http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/xpresso.asp

MiniD · 19-03-2007 5:56pm

LiamD wrote:

I'm afraid to tell you that your imagination has let you down on this occasion. Most other Xpresso buses I see around the city are the new buses which dont have pools of water on the window side when it rains. I hope someone else can back me up on this but in particular I have never seen an 84X, 25X or 39X operate anything but a new bus.

Also just noticed this on DB website:
"We’ll be using more new buses and recruiting new drivers for the service = XPRESSO"
http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/xpresso.asp

Up until recently, it was not uncommon to have 7 or 8 year old buses operating regularly on the 25X/66X/41X etc. Actually, some of these routes still operate RV type buses. The 15X is run by Ringsend which is due a new batch of buses soon. Some of these buses have arrived already, you may notice them on the regular 15 service.
As mentioned above, some Xpresso buses operate only at peak hours. It would be wrong to have a brand new bus sitting in the garage all day while an older vehicle was running the route.
It takes time to phase out older buses and unfortunately not every route can have a new bus. The 15 batch of routes does quite well compared to other routes in the city.

snickerpuss · 19-03-2007 8:00pm

Thw 27Xs are nearly always new buses but i don't mind that as they are usually packed in the mornings and pretty full in the afternoons.

The 27X used to always be late or just not come but in the last year its become really reliable, i used to call everytime it didn't show as did loads of other people who'd be waiting with me. Its all good now thank god.

I hope yours will sort itself out.

KC61 · 20-03-2007 10:49am

LiamD wrote:

I wish I had seen this thread earlier.....

I live in Knocklyon and my local service is the 15. I started college this year and learned pretty fast it's not easy to get into town in the morning. To be in for 9.00 I must get up at 6.30 and then get the 15 at 7.30 from Scholarstown Road or the 15X at ~7.35 from same. Any later and I must get a later 15 which WONT have me in for 9. This is crazy and most of the morning 15's 1hour+ journey is standing still on Terenure Road, even though there is a QBC there for most of the road. How can a journey which at night takes 25 mins (yes, on the bus) take up to 2 hours in the morning?

Re. the 15X, I get it outbound from Scholarstown some mornings (usually Monday, Tuesday, sometimes Friday) and it has never failed to arrive by 7.35. It is much quicker than the 15 and has me on Dawson St by ~8.15. However I do have some complaints:
-It is always one of those really old buses, despite most of the 15_s being new buses. When it rains I can't put my bag on the ground or my books get wet because the windows let the rainwater in and it collects on the window side of every seat.
-Lately it has been stopping on Rathgar road which means the 'express' bus only fails to stop in Rathmines. So basically for your premium fare it skips 3/4 stops. It may as well be a 15C.
-Larger girthed people seem to be drawn to the seat beside me on the 15X which I find quite baffling and frankly uncomfortable.

Re the general 15/A/B/C/N services, they leave a lot to be desired. The 15 is one of the slowest buses around. It never fails to stop at almost every bus stop and traffic light on the whole route. On the other hand, the faster and supposedly more frequent 15B regularly fails to turn up not just once, but twice in a row. The 15C is far too infrequent and then 15N fails to run during the week - I don't care if it only gets a few passengers, you claim to be serving the community - so bring me home at night!

The Ringsend Xpresso services (15X/49X/50X/65X/77X) unlike some of the other garages' Xpresso routes are not integrated into the all day services and as such the garage leaves the newest buses out on the routes that have an all day requirement.

The 15X has stopped at Garville Avenue on Rathgar Road for a number of years now (it is not a recent change) - this is the only stop between Rathfarnham Village and South Richmond Street - hardly 3/4 stops!!!

As for the 15 stopping at every bus stop and traffic light...what can you expect? It's a bus!!!! I cannot see how you can make out that the 15B is faster than the 15 on the section where the routes coincide (Templeogue Bridge-Eden Quay) as they both have to face exactly the same traffic congestion. They also have exactly the same running time in their schedules which would suggest that your perception is incorrect. Perhaps it is because there would generally be more people on the 15 by the time it reaches Templeogue Bridge, and it is stopping to let them off? The fundamental problem that these routes face is that there are two "pinch points" along the route - Terenure Village and Rathmines Village where there is no bus priority. There is very little more that can be done with either location as the roads are just too narrow for a bus lane and with the amount of cars passing along the road the buses just get snarled up in the traffic. The 15X (and indeed the 15C) bypasses the worst of these (Terenure) and as such offers a much faster journey.

Regarding reliability, the 15/15A/15B/15C are all on an integrated schedule (i.e. a bus can do a 15, then a 15B, then a 15C etc.), so one route should be no more reliable than another. There is a reliability issue since the routes moved to Eden Quay (at the behest of Dublin City Council) and there are plans to review the schedules. Unfortunately for us passengers this is a far too slow process.

I would agree that there is certainly some scope for some extra peak hour 15C and 15X journeys - but on the whole I think the 15C off peak schedule is about right for the demand that is there.

As for the 15N Nitelink - this is a commercial service - if no one uses it why would any operator run it?

LiamD · 20-03-2007 7:19pm

Thanks for the replies guys. I see what you mean about the older buses on the 15X, but maybe it would be a good idea to integrate them as opposed to having them sit around after they do the express run? Then maybe the old bus might be spread out between different routes.

Believe it or not the 15 is slower than the 15B even where the routes coincide. I know it sounds ridiculous but I think there are two reasons for it:
1. The 15 is usually full most of the way to Knocklyon and where other buses lose passengers along the way in Rathmines and Terenure, the 15 just gets more Knocklyon passengers. Obviously this isn't DB's fault but it does show it needs more frequency during the day because by the time it gets to Richmond street it's full and picks up very few along the way!
2. On the way into town on a 15B I notice that it usually catches up with an earlier 15 around Rathgar/Ratmines. This means the 15 is full and the 15B is much emptier having had to stop less because the 15 picked up the would-be 15B passengers. This is how it's quicker IMO.

There is demand for a midweek 15N. Knocklyon is a big area with a large youth population and a midweek 15N at 2.30 or 3.00 would definitely get as many passengers as the 1.00/1.30am weekend 15Ns. After a midweek night out our only way home is a e15 taxi or a 49N and a 20 minute walk

leche solara · 23-03-2007 8:11pm

All has been relatively good on the 15X evening service for the last couple of weeks. Maybe its the new drivers but why they should have a bearing I don't know. All has been well until yesterday.
Yesterday I got on the 15X at Eden Quay (5 mins late but thats about the usual) While waiting for the bus to pull out, I noticed people getting on asking the driver if he stopped in Rathmines. He was telling them yes. I went up to him to point out that the bus does not stop in Rathmines as its an Express with a premium fare. He replied that he was told by teh inspector that it does and he was following his instructions. I suggested that he check back with the inspector as his instructiions were wrong. He asked one of the alighting passengers to get the inspector from further down the Quay, which surprisingly he did. The inspector then came aborad and the driver asked him about Rathmines. The inspector wasn't sure, and consulted with the passengers, and then told the driver not to stop in Rathmines. We took off then, and he didn't stop in Rathmines but he stopped at every other stop.

This evening then took the biscuit. At Eden Quay it was obvious from the number of passengers getting on that many did not know the rules of the 15X. Nor did the driver. At the first stop over Portobello Bridge on Rathmines Road, a large number of passengers made to get off. I went straight up to the driver to tell him we don't stop, and he said "Are you telling me you the route better than I do?" I replied Yes and suggested he got onto his inspector to verify the case. He said he couldnt do that as he was driving. At this stage we were well up Rathmines Road and he was letting people off at every stop. He said his instructions were to let people off at every stop, but not to let any on. I asked how this could then be an Express Bus and he told me to sit down. I sat down and rang Rinsgend Garage, who asked me was I sure he was letting people off ,as he shouldn't be. The garage man also said "the 15X, thats the one they want to get rid of". I suggested he contact the driver, and put him straight. They said they would get the inspector on Eden Quay to contact him. True to their word a couple of minutes later ( we were now on Rathgar Road letting people both on and off) he was contacted on his radio. I couldnt hear what was said, but he now had a sour puss on him.

We proceeded up Rathgar Road, but instead of turning onto Orwell Road, we went straight onto Terenure, still stopping at every stop.. ( I thought he might now be trying to make up lost time by going this way) But I was wrong. At Terenure he went straight through the cross and onto Templeogue Road (The 15B route). I went up to him again and before I even said a word he shouted "This is your fault" A number of other passengers now came him up to him , and he said that he had been confused by the other gentleman (me) and that he would turn. He continued to let passengers on and off, all the way up Templeogue Road and we expected him to turn left after Terenure College to get him back toward Rathfarnham Road. But he went on to Templeogue Village, over Templeogue Bridge, and up to Knocklyon and Scholarstown. My own stop is on Ballyboden Road which he did not reach until his return journey to town. He apologised profusely (NOT!) Not a single word out of the ignorant moron.

What sort of a company is this? Idiot inspectors, idiot untrained drivers, complete and utter disregard for the passengers who pay their wages - and then to rub salt in they charge a premium fare for all of this.

Maybe its time to start Dublin Bus all over again from scratch.

Ongoing problems with bus route 15X

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