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forward Pass

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  • 23-03-2007 7:29am
    #1
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭


    Interesting link on the interpretation of the forward passer - particularly interesting when it gets to the point where the guy releasing the ball gets tackled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgMlDy2jP9s


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    #2
    zokrez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭zokrez


    My father in law has been arguing this for years without anyone listening to him. He will be delighted to see conclusive proof !


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    #3
    flsghujslkuo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭flsghujslkuo


    that's a load of crud.

    The rule says the ball thrower's hands must go backwards when throwing the ball.

    If you throw the ball with yours hands going backwards and a tornado takes the ball and brings it 15 miles forward.... the rules say its not a forward pass.

    Why is the rule like that.... simple physics: e.g. if you are on a plane, which is travelling 500mph and you throw a piece of paper at your friend 7 seats back.... if you look at that piece of paper it has gone forward relative to the earth but relative to things on the plane it went backwards. simple sum of vectors.


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    #4
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Why is it crud? you didn't make it clear - is it the rule of the game you believe to be crud, or the video?
    The bottom line is, the way the game is played would have to completely change if the ball had to travel backwards - why? Simple physics won't allow it to happen.


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    #5
    Goodluck2me
    Registered Users Posts: 5,401 ✭✭✭Goodluck2me


    the reason they arent deemed to be forward passes is due the fact that it is not in the interests of the game to judge them like that. Knock-ons are penalised as skill errors, forward passes are penalised so the game doesnt turn into american football. simple.


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    #6
    Steffano2002
    Registered Users Posts: 5,918 ✭✭✭Steffano2002


    flsghujslkuo wrote:
    that's a load of crud.

    The rule says the ball thrower's hands must go backwards when throwing the ball.

    If you throw the ball with yours hands going backwards and a tornado takes the ball and brings it 15 miles forward.... the rules say its not a forward pass.

    Why is the rule like that.... simple physics: e.g. if you are on a plane, which is travelling 500mph and you throw a piece of paper at your friend 7 seats back.... if you look at that piece of paper it has gone forward relative to the earth but relative to things on the plane it went backwards. simple sum of vectors.
    They're not rules, they're LAWS! :p

    I thought this video was really interesting (although the music and the way it was done reminded me of crappy videos they used to show us in school back in the 80s and early 90s). It was particularly interesting to see the pass just before the tackle! My brain was gsaying "forward!" yet it is proved in this video that such a pass is in fact legal! :eek:

    Very interesting indeed...


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    #7
    randomname2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    davyjose wrote:
    Why is it crud? you didn't make it clear - is it the rule of the game you believe to be crud, or the video?
    The bottom line is, the way the game is played would have to completely change if the ball had to travel backwards - why? Simple physics won't allow it to happen.

    Won't?
    Let's say I am running forwards at 5 m/s. I impart backwards motion on the ball at 10 m/s (numbers made up). That combined with rotational spin will take the ball backwards.

    R
    flsghujslkuo wrote:
    If you throw the ball with yours hands going backwards and a tornado takes the ball and brings it 15 miles forward.... the rules say its not a forward pass.
    Lets look at the law for a second:

    A throw-forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward.
    ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.

    Now, lets look at the definition of a pass, also kindly supplied to us by the IRB:

    Pass: A player throws the ball to another player; if a player hands the ball to
    another player without throwing it, this is also a pass.

    A lot of people look at only the first part of the throw forward law. It is not just the throw but also the pass (in essence the transference of the ball from one team mate to another) that must be backwards.

    Thats my 2c


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    #8
    Peter B
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Peter B


    I would have to agree with the video that those passes are fine and in most situation refs do make the correct call.

    However I have only found it to be a problem when commentators use the 22 or the halfway line to prove passes are forward when the ref hasn't given it forward. It is commentators who should see this video


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    #9
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    randomname2005 wrote:
    Won't?
    Let's say I am running forwards at 5 m/s. I impart backwards motion on the ball at 10 m/s (numbers made up). That combined with rotational spin will take the ball backwards.

    R

    Do that then, but I think the video made it clear (if you watched it) that it's difficult to throw the ball backwards without it going forward at all - at one point your man throws it over his head and it still goes forward.


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    #10
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    flsghujslkuo wrote:
    that's a load of crud.

    The rule says the ball thrower's hands must go backwards when throwing the ball.

    the rule doesn't say that at all. the rule says what randomname has in above.
    the video is just an interpretation of the rule and has clearly been made to make forward passes looked alright. At high level at least 70% or more passers are hit when they pass, the examples in the video where the passer runs on in a straight line are ridiculous, even if he didn't get hit the passer will not be running off away from the guy with the ball..


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    #11
    funky penguin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭funky penguin


    Steffano2002 wrote:
    I thought this video was really interesting (although the music and the way it was done reminded me of crappy videos they used to show us in school back in the 80s and early 90s).


    I was in secondary from 1997 to 2003, and I assure you that it's still the same. :)

    But yes, very interesting video, good find OP.


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    #12
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Thank you funky penguin, it comes from being veeerrry bored at work :D

    I'm still convinced that the first 15 seconds prove to me that most running passes in Rugby (particularly if your an Ireland or NZ fan), are forward legal, but technically - physically - forward.


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    #13
    Steffano2002
    Registered Users Posts: 5,918 ✭✭✭Steffano2002


    funky penguin wrote:
    I was in secondary from 1997 to 2003, and I assure you that it's still the same. :)
    Thought they'd have "upgraded" by now! :eek: The music is the worse... Cheesy as a whore's f@nny fl@ps :p


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    #14
    randomname2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    davyjose wrote:
    Do that then, but I think the video made it clear (if you watched it) that it's difficult to throw the ball backwards without it going forward at all - at one point your man throws it over his head and it still goes forward.
    Other posters have commented that it depends on the action of the hands of the passer - if you look at the hands of the guy who throws it over his head they never move in a backward motion.

    I'm not saying it is easy to pass the ball backward, just that it is not impossible.

    The intricacies of the laws could be debated forever but maybe we will all be a little more forgiving of referees the next time we play/watch a match :)

    R


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