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Irish Politics and Hosting

  • 30-04-2007 12:24am
    #1
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I recall someone did some research prior to the last General Election and found that many Irish politicians and parties did not use Irish hosting (so much for supporting Irish jobs)!
    Anyhow, I started doing some research and so far
    FF = Irish
    FG = Irish
    Labour = Not Irish (anu.net based in Bristol)
    Greens = Irish
    PDs = Not Irish (Northern Ireland - tibus.net)*
    Sinn Féin = Not Irish (quickserve.com in USA)

    I will look at my local candidates in Kildare N. tomorrow but its interesting to note that Labour & SF, parties supposedly there to help the irish worker, don't use Irish hosting services!


    Any comments?

    * Im excluding NI from being Irish as its a different tax jurisdiction


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭louie


    That's a good find, but i will bet you they haven't got a clue about where abouts their website is hosted.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I can't remember but I have a feeling it was Joe McCarthy of usenet fame who did the last survey.
    They were all notified with a letter going to the Oirish Times about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    Nice to see someone doing a little survey like this.

    And the worst offender has to be the GAA:

    http://blog.moybella.net/2007/03/06/gaa-supporting-local-business/


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Kildare North:
    Catherine Murphy (Ind) - Not Irish (LIVEDNS.CO.UK)
    Emmet Stagg (Lab) - no website
    Bernard Durkan (FG) - no website
    Darren Scully (FG) - no website
    Michael Fitzpatrick (FF) - Irish
    Aine Brady (FF) - Irish
    Shane Fitzgerald (Green) - Not Irish (Arizona - SECURESERVER.NET)
    Cristín McCauley (SF) - No website


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,987 ✭✭✭✭zAbbo


    finegael.ie resolves here - http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=84.23.9.142

    I think thats NI, not Irish


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    They are hosted with weblink.ie who according to their site are based in Dublin so I don't know if I would fault them for the host having their servers elsewhere.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭zepp




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭McSandwich


    I think that the important issue isn't where the site is hosted, but who developed the site and where they are based. If I contracted an Irish web design company, I might assume that it would be hosted in Ireland. As we know, this isn't always the case.

    Just a quick check, but here's what I found:

    Fine Gael - BIZNET SOLUTIONS: http://www.biznet-solutions.com/index.cfm/section/contact

    Labour - Labour Press Office

    PDs - TIBUS: http://www.tibus.com/contact/

    Green - Created using a CMS called eZ publish 3

    SF - Created by J.Bennett, E.Eckhardt, and T.Fowler

    FF - ? [edit] Paddy the web designer :) [/edit]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ndonegan


    McSandwich wrote:
    I think that the important issue isn't where the site is hosted, but who developed the site and where they are based. If I contracted an Irish web design company, I might assume that it would be hosted in Ireland. As we know, this isn't always the case.

    On a purely technical basis, it's usually better to have the server close to your primary audience. Why do you think companies like Google and Microsoft have clusters all over the world and not just in the US?

    On todays internet it isn't as big an issue as people can easily get sub 200ms pings to the most of the world. However if the site is hosted on an Irish Host that's peered with INEX, they are that much closer to their primary audience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭damien


    Right, so the parties should subsidise Irish businesses who are not as competitive as their American or European counterparts?

    Are all you guys buying stuff from Irish-owned and operated companies or do you use the likes of Play, Komplett and Amazon for things you want?

    I'm not trolling but can you outline why hosting with Irish businesses is better if non-Irish firms are better value for money?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    Most Irish hosting companies are competitively priced


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Damien, maybe you are using Eircom pricing but as blacknight says, most Irish hosts are competitively priced.
    However, as you ask why its better to use Irish hosting as opposed to non-Irish, the first thing I can think of is support. it really is worth its weight in gold (sic) when its needed. Trying to contact a foreign host when wondering why your site is down will result in huge international call charges (as I have found out with both UK and US based hosts).
    Using a 'local' host can also benefit in terms of search engines, e.g. a search for 'web hosting' on google.com and then using the regional variants of .ie and .co.uk returns quite different results.

    However, my point to this was that the various parties should be working to help Irish business interests over foreign ones. They want the support of the Irish people - why shouldn't they help the Irish economy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭damien


    kbannon wrote:
    However, my point to this was that the various parties should be working to help Irish business interests over foreign ones. They want the support of the Irish people - why shouldn't they help the Irish economy?

    If they can find a better or equally priced Irish webhost who can also provide the same level of support then they should but I don't see a reason why they should pay out more for something that's the same or inferior to what they are getting. It is why I buy stuff online from non-EU countries. I'd expect a party I vote for to run their party efficiently. The State may be a charity in some regards but a political party should not be.

    As for support, how many Irish webhosting companies have 24 hour support? Yeah they may be local, but they are also in their own local come 5pm and all weekend long.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭damien


    Another thought, is this surely not a reflection on the poor salesmanship and reputation of the Irish webhosting business?

    Maybe if they could all get together* and all contribute to a marketing campaign to extol the virtues of local hosting, then more companies and not just a few dulll political parties would use them. Lads, you need to form a group the equivalent of RECI.

    *Given that their childish behaviour contributed to closing of Webhosting forum here, I have little faith.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    damien.m wrote:
    As for support, how many Irish webhosting companies have 24 hour support? Yeah they may be local, but they are also in their own local come 5pm and all weekend long.

    Damien

    I can't speak for other Irish hosting companies, but we are in the office until 6 Monday to Friday and we definitely answer support queries both outside office hours and at weekends

    Michele


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Bob the Builder


    ...But isn't Ireland trying to reduce on Imports, the prices of our web hosting around ireland is ridiculous though...

    How can a company offer 8mb of space, 3gb transfer, no dynamis technology(php, perl, etc.), and charge €90 per annum, whereas for €70 hosting in america, you get 300gb space, and 3terabytes bandwith, with all scriptingt technologies.

    Although I have to reconcile and say, the larger hosting companies are making a genuine effort to produce excellent hosting at competitive cost but 21% Vat isn't helping in most cases


    Just thought I'd do a very quick one for Mayo:

    Michael Ring(FG) - http://www.michaelringtd.com/ - Not Irish: France
    Enda Kenny(FG) - http://endakenny.finegael.ie/ - Not Irish: UK
    Frank Chambers(FF) - http://www.frankchambers.ie/ - Irish
    John Carty(FF) - http://www.johncarty.ie/ - Irish(Mayo).
    Jerry Cowley(Independant) - http://www.jerrycowley.com/ - Irish.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    damien.m wrote:
    If they can find a better or equally priced Irish webhost who can also provide the same level of support then they should but I don't see a reason why they should pay out more for something that's the same or inferior to what they are getting. It is why I buy stuff online from non-EU countries. I'd expect a party I vote for to run their party efficiently.

    Em - shouldn't they be running the country efficiently ? If prices and costs are so high in Ireland, isn't it at least partially their fault for having business, transport, etc costs so high and for not promoting competition and for not giving us a decent, competitive economy ?

    Some factors (e.g. greed) might be beyond the Government's control, but the transport infrastructure (either traditional road/rail or broadband) is a farce and the cost of houses, etc makes sure that Irish staff have to be paid more than staff elsewhere.

    Maybe we should do like the Government and look abroad for people to vote for on May 24th ? Maybe there are people there who would to the job better and/or cheaper ?

    Hairy Marney told us to "shop around" - why doesn't the Government do the same ? If they have to look outside the country to get cheaper prices, shouldn't that tell them that the country is screwed and doesn't it make them completely po-faced when they tell the rest of us that the economy is booming and jobs are safe ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭louie


    It's only hosting man. Ireland is not that expensive, and I don't think it will actually ruin them.
    They do pay 200 euro for a poster in your garden if you are lucky to live in a visible area.

    Hosting for one of their (complicated) website is not even that much a year.
    damien.m wrote:
    Another thought, is this surely not a reflection on the poor salesmanship and reputation of the Irish webhosting business?

    Maybe if they could all get together* and all contribute to a marketing campaign to extol the virtues of local hosting, then more companies and not just a few dulll political parties would use them. Lads, you need to form a group the equivalent of RECI.

    *Given that their childish behaviour contributed to closing of Webhosting forum here, I have little faith.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    louie wrote:
    They do pay 200 euro for a poster in your garden if you are lucky to live in a visible area.

    Don't even get me started on that one, louie; how they reckon that a picture of people will make you vote for them is beyond me.

    If you remember someone because of coverage of what they've achieved, you vote for them.

    I can't see how those litter-inducing posters are of benefit, unless we're all so fickle that we blank out the achivements, failures and corruption - we just see a poster and say - he'll get my vote :rolleyes:

    Then again, if the posters had no photos and only had meaningful lists of improvements and achievements, there's no way you'd see Fianna Fail's postage-stamp sized posters - unless they fancied including their achievements and success at corruption ?

    I also love Bertie's Photoshopped posters - they are so ironic that they're true, showing how "in touch" he is with real people. The fact that he has the same photo superimposed on billboards with old people, young people, etc sums it up so much that it should be a campaign slogan:

    "Fianna Fail do their best to make it look like we're in touch with people, but we couldn't be arsed doing it for real because it'd take too much effort"


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭Sposs


    nevf wrote:
    How can a company offer 8mb of space, 3gb transfer, no dynamis technology(php, perl, etc.), and charge €90 per annum, whereas for €70 hosting in america, you get 300gb space, and 3terabytes bandwith, with all scriptingt technologies.

    Although I have to reconcile and say, the larger hosting companies are making a genuine effort to produce excellent hosting at competitive cost but 21% Vat isn't helping in most cases

    [/B]

    Not sure when the last time you looked at Irish hosting prices, but have a look here

    http://www.hosting365.com/hosting-win-personal.php
    http://www.blacknight.ie/soho.0.html

    300gb of space??? that's larger than the drive size of most dedicated servers, what your talking about there is gross over selling.
    Sign up for an American Host who offers that, but i'll gurantee you , they'll cancel your account before you get anywhere close to using that.


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    nevf wrote:
    How can a company offer 8mb of space, 3gb transfer, no dynamis technology(php, perl, etc.), and charge €90 per annum, whereas for €70 hosting in america, you get 300gb space, and 3terabytes bandwith, with all scriptingt technologies.
    Like who?
    nevf wrote:
    Although I have to reconcile and say, the larger hosting companies are making a genuine effort to produce excellent hosting at competitive cost but 21% Vat isn't helping in most cases
    Are you including Eircom in there?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭damien


    For the sake of transparency, I wonder could all those who work in the webhosting business stick their hands up?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,161 ✭✭✭steve-hosting36


    Well, we have 24/7 support, 7 days a week, and our own datacentre, networks, servers, infrastructure, and a head count of over 50 staff. All based in Dublin, yet we still offer highly competetive packages, which we're also just about to review and re-launch as even more competetive packages :)

    Offshore hosting is over-rated :)

    Stephen


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,082 ✭✭✭✭Random


    If only you'd switch to cpanel now :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭McSandwich


    In my experience, Irish hosting companies are very competitive as regards pricing. Tech support is also excellent, just this week I sent a query to my host just before midnight in expectation of a reply the following morning. It arrived before I had a chance to shut down my PC.

    My only critisisms of Irish hosts is that they tend to lag when it comes to implementing new technologies, e.g. virtualised hosting and Java based hosting can be hard to come by.

    Now, back to the politicians. As I said earlier, most parties (and individual canditates) do not develop their own sites, but use a web design service. I'm more surprised that they (web designers) do not host their sites in Ireland when practical. Do hosting companies not talk to design companies?? Though I might have been tempted to host certain party sites abroad just to be a **** stirrer :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    blacknight wrote:
    And the worst offender has to be the GAA:

    That was years ago (and part of a bigger CMS and console game with a GAA theme). Can't say I agree with it myself.
    damien.m wrote:
    Lads, you need to form a group the equivalent of RECI.
    The IWHA. It didn't work out though. Membership was small and non-representative, not to mention the bitching amongst some hosts!
    Well, we have 24/7 support, 7 days a week
    Looks good on paper. You won't see many US hosts that claim otherwise. How well does it stack up though?

    There's still a slight difference for budget/basic shared hosting which some will argue is more than balanced by having local Irish support. However once you get in to the higher grade of hosting (high bandwidth, SLAs, dedicated/co-lo), I can't see how anyone could suggest the Irish market compares well with the US (or EU for that matter). I'm all for supporting our own, but not being ripped off in the process.

    Many politicians will have local business desigin their websites (or indeed friends/relatives/etc.). Many small businesses / contractors will have servers off shore (having out grown the less competitive reseller packages on offer here).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,161 ✭✭✭steve-hosting36


    Not sure what you mean by 'stack up' - but outside the hosting 'giants' in the US, we probably have more support staff than most hosts, both in ireland and outside. We have reams of glowing testimonials from customers who experience rapid response and resolution at odd hours of the day :)

    As for getting ripped off in Ireland, SLA's here are market leading, as is the technology and infrastructure - show me an 'apples with apples' comparison and I'll show you how Ireland is competetive.

    Our main competitors are the 'big boys' in the UK and USA - if we werent competetive we wouldnt be here :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭McSandwich


    Not sure what you mean by 'stack up' - but outside the hosting 'giants' in the US, we probably have more support staff than most hosts, both in ireland and outside. We have reams of glowing testimonials from customers who experience rapid response and resolution at odd hours of the day :)

    From experience, this is true - I switched from a US 'giant' to Hosting365.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 975 ✭✭✭squibs


    Did a site for a politician lately - won't even say what party, but it was hosted with an Irish company. I always recommend Irish hosting.

    Having said that I host some personally owned sites on a US managed VPS. I couldn't find any Irish companies who could approach the US price/specs, so I had to go international. Uptime and support has actually been top-notch too, I must say.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    Sorry, I'm dragging this off-topic even more...
    Not sure what you mean by 'stack up'
    I mean the quality & response time of support in practice, not what's advertised. I have a week old ticket with one Irish host with 1 response that was invalid, and no other responses yet. That same company advertise the usual fanatical 24x7 support.

    SLAs on dedicated services are good, but then the prices are way over what you pay in the US for the same. Having said that, I've only had the opportunity to need an Irish SLA once, and when I went to check it, it had been removed from my service (without notice)!
    show me an 'apples with apples' comparison and I'll show you how Ireland is competetive.
    I'll give you one basket of apples.. Take the entry level SoftLayer machine for $159 (10Mb). You give me the other comparable basket. If that's not a good example, pick any service from a big US data centre.

    I'd love to move a good few servers back to Ireland, so I'm genuinely interested (rather than just having a go at you).
    Our main competitors are the 'big boys' in the UK and USA - if we werent competetive we wouldnt be here :)
    Yeah, so eircom keep saying, I'm sure.


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