Undertaking? Safe or legal?

Marcus.Aurelius · 08-05-2007 12:40pm #1

If you find yourself behind a car in the fast lane, and there is a lot of distance before the next car in the slow lane, but the car ahead does not move into the slow lane (as he/she is legally required to do so), is it illegal to undertake him by using the slow lane? If it is, is there a legal way to indicate to him/her that they are abusing the fast lane?

I've often wondered about the actual legality of the situation, but feel it is best answered in the Motors forum. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

maoleary

Wossack · 08-05-2007 12:44pm

Undertaking is illegal afaik. You can let them know you are behind them by flashing your lights a couple of times from a safe distance. Dont tailgate. You may be up against a 'fast-lane vigilante' though, in which case nothing will work.

jhegarty · 08-05-2007 12:44pm

maoleary wrote:

If you find yourself behind a car in the fast lane, and there is a lot of distance before the next car in the slow lane, but the car ahead does not move into the slow lane (as he/she is legally required to do so), is it illegal to undertake him by using the slow lane? If it is, is there a legal way to indicate to him/her that they are abusing the fast lane?

I've often wondered about the actual legality of the situation, but feel it is best answered in the Motors forum. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

maoleary

Not legal.. not safe....

Seth Brundle · 08-05-2007 12:48pm

Before someone else comes on and says it:
undertaking is legal in slow moving traffic and if traffic in the *overtaking* lane is moving slower than the *driving* lane.

Although not adequately defined, after speaking to a garda on this, it seems that the garda line is that if traffic isn't crawling along then you can't do it.

Marcus.Aurelius · 08-05-2007 12:49pm

jhegarty wrote:

Not legal.. not safe....

I agree completely, but sometimes, it seems to be the only way to get ahead of a possibly dangerous situation when the individual in front is a twat. :rolleyes:

We've all been though it, a 100 kph car in a 120 zone in the overtaking lane with no cars in the slow lane for miles. Can you use the slow lane at the speed limit and overtake just by cruising at your normal pace? Does the slow lane have to move as slowly as the fast lane? A strange practice?

Anan1 · 08-05-2007 12:54pm

It's not legal and it's not entirely safe, but I really don't see any alternative in this country. Be sure to use the horn when undertaking, to make them aware of your presence - the kind of driver who sits in the overtaking lane is quite capable of changing lanes at any time without looking.

Marcus.Aurelius · 08-05-2007 12:55pm

Anan1 wrote:

It's not legal and it's not entirely safe, but I really don't see any alternative in this country. Be sure to use the horn when undertaking, to make them aware of your presence - the kind of driver who sits in the overtaking lane is quite capable of changing lanes at any time without looking.

Fully agree, they are usually not the best drivers.

Henry Ford III · 08-05-2007 12:56pm

maoleary wrote:

I agree completely, but sometimes, it seems to be the only way to get ahead of a possibly dangerous situation when the individual in front is a twat. :rolleyes:

We've all been though it, a 100 kph car in a 120 zone in the overtaking lane with no cars in the slow lane for miles. Can you use the slow lane at the speed limit and overtake just by cruising at your normal pace? Does the slow lane have to move as slowly as the fast lane? A strange practice?

Nope. Your best best is to be patient, stay in the overtaking lane, and politely bring the errant lane discipline to the attention of the driver. Don't get mad as it will not help.

Stark · 08-05-2007 1:03pm

Anan1 wrote:

It's not legal and it's not entirely safe, but I really don't see any alternative in this country. Be sure to use the horn when undertaking, to make them aware of your presence - the kind of driver who sits in the overtaking lane is quite capable of changing lanes at any time without looking.

But surely the same risk applies when overtaking on the right, that someone could change lanes without looking?

I've done it a few times where I'd be happily driving along in the driving lane at 100kph/120kph(depending on whether it was dual carriageway or motorway) and there was a convoy of cars in the overtaking lane ahead doing well under the speed limit so I just continued on my way. Seemed like an acceptable risk to be clear of them at the time.

I do it most often on the N7, where it seems easier to continue on in the far left lane than to try and swing into the overtaking lane and then back into the far left lane when you encounter someone in the middle lane doing below the speed limit.

Mitch Connor · 08-05-2007 1:06pm

If you are already in the driving lane, and approach someone going under the speed limit in the overtaking lane, do you have to slow down to their speed, regardless of the empty road ahead of you, and current speed limit?

This happened to me a few weeks ago; when i got up alongside the guy (which i possibly shouldn't have done anway) he sped up to the correct speed so we were traveling side by side, he then tried to change into my lane with me beside him - which forced me partially on to the hard shoulder until he actually heard my car horn and pulled back into the overtaking lane (where he proceeded to hammer it up the motorway at well above the limit)

ambro25 · 08-05-2007 1:06pm

maoleary wrote:

Can you use the slow lane at the speed limit and overtake just by cruising at your normal pace?

Yes according to

kbannon wrote:

Before someone else comes on and says it:
undertaking is legal in slow moving traffic and if traffic in the *overtaking* lane is moving slower than the *driving* lane.

Although not adequately defined, after speaking to a garda on this, it seems that the garda line is that if traffic isn't crawling along then you can't do it.

No according to

Henry Ford III wrote:

Nope. Your best best is to be patient, stay in the overtaking lane, and politely bring the errant lane discipline to the attention of the driver. Don't get mad as it will not help.

I wouldn't stay in the driving lane, I'd make sure I come into the overtaking lane behind the other car first, then invite the driver to move over, in order to permit a legal manoeuver.

I just undertake if the guy is proving to be an overtaking lane vigilante (after very numerous and docile invitations to shift, please). But then the advice is to drop one and floor it, you want to spend as little time as possible alongside the other car - in that respect, I'm not too worried about the guy pulling across, thx to Mr WRX

Stark · 08-05-2007 1:10pm

Tauren wrote:

If you are already in the driving lane, and approach someone going under the speed limit in the overtaking lane, do you have to slow down to their speed, regardless of the empty road ahead of you, and current speed limit?

Legally you should. Although when I do that, I try and keep a bit behind them to the left, so they can pull in if they choose to and I avoid driving in their blind spot.

Mitch Connor · 08-05-2007 1:12pm

Stark wrote:

Legally you should. Although when I do that, I try and keep a bit behind them to the left, so they can pull in if they choose to and I avoid driving in their blind spot.

fair enough - obviously the rule would be perfect if everyone was able to drive according to the rule (as there would be no need, nor chance, to undertake) but the idiots on the road make drving a lot more irritating then it needs to be.

rockbeer · 08-05-2007 1:13pm

maoleary wrote:

If you find yourself behind a car in the fast lane,

Which is the fast lane?

maoleary wrote:

and there is a lot of distance before the next car in the slow lane,

Which is the slow lane??

Get your terminology sorted out and you will have your answer.

Mitch Connor · 08-05-2007 1:14pm

rockbeer wrote:

Which is the fast lane?

Which is the slow lane??

Get your terminology sorted out and you will have your answer.

the fast lane is the one on the right, the slow lane is the one on the left. If the people in charge of the roads use these terms (and i see it a lot on the 6.1) I see no reason why people have to make a big deal regarding posters using them.

Lemming · 08-05-2007 1:20pm

Tauren wrote:

the fast lane is the one on the right, the slow lane is the one on the left.

And you'd have failed a driving test if such a question was asked (oh dear god I wish it was)

This is partly the reason why there are so many people in this country unable to use carriage-ways & motorways correctly. The mentality behind the use of lanes is implied by the language used to refer to them.

So everyone thinks "if I sit in the Fhhhhhest lane I'll get there quicker" :rolleyes:

The right lane is *not* the "fhhhhest" lane. it's the "over-taking" lane. In otherwords you're not meant to be in it unless you're performing an overtaking maneuver, not just "driving fhhhhhest".

fletch · 08-05-2007 1:21pm

I used to get enraged by this behaviour but now I just do as suggested above, make my presence known by indicating right/flashing full beams(short flash), if I get no reaction, I undertake as quick as I can giving a short beep of the horn as I pass.

Henry Ford III · 08-05-2007 1:23pm

ambro25 wrote:

I wouldn't stay in the driving lane, I'd make sure I come into the overtaking lane behind the other car first, then invite the driver to move over, in order to permit a legal manoeuver.

That's exactly what I meant :rolleyes:

rockbeer · 08-05-2007 1:25pm

Tauren wrote:

the fast lane is the one on the right, the slow lane is the one on the left.

Totally wrong. Nil points and back to driving school for you.

Tauren wrote:

If the people in charge of the roads use these terms (and i see it a lot on the 6.1) I see no reason why people have to make a big deal regarding posters using them.

Because they're incorrect. As lemming says, this contributes to the mass incomprehension in this country of how people should be driving on these roads.

Henry Ford III · 08-05-2007 1:26pm

Tauren wrote:

If you are already in the driving lane, and approach someone going under the speed limit in the overtaking lane, do you have to slow down to their speed, regardless of the empty road ahead of you, and current speed limit?

Yes.

DublinDilbert · 08-05-2007 1:29pm

At the moment it is illegal in Ireland to undertake.... in most other countries that have a far better record on road safety and driver training it is not illegal to undertake, i'm talking about the likes of canada where its not illegal to undertake. If you drive around toronto you could have 10 lanes at some points going in the same direction, now which is the fast / slow lane?

The reason this is going to have to change is soon we will have roads with 4 or more lanes going to the one direction... now which is the fast / slow lane?? what happens if 2 lanes on the right are splitting off to merge with another road, are these still considered the fast lane?? As the number of lanes increase this rule makes less and less sense...

For anyone who thinks it's dangerous, it's not, you should always check your blind spots when changing lanes, no matter if your moving from the "fast lane" into the "slow lane"... They only way an accident can happen is if someone doesn't check their blind spots which they should always do.

On a 2 lane road, even when your driving in the "fast" lane you should check your blind spots, as someone could come on from a slip road doing exactly the same speed as you, hence end up beside you, they haven't broken the law and are entitled to merge and drive at the same speed as your vehicle.

Mitch Connor · 08-05-2007 1:32pm

rockbeer wrote:

Totally wrong. Nil points and back to driving school for you.

Because they're incorrect. As lemming says, this contributes to the mass incomprehension in this country of how people should be driving on these roads.

But why make an issue of it? I know what they are supposed to be called, and i know when i am to use them. Calling them the slow and fast lane is hardly making me a poorer driver, and i don't think the idiots who don't know how to use them would be any better if you told them what the lanes are called (i'd actually be surprised if they didn't know anyway)

Lemming · 08-05-2007 1:35pm

Tauren wrote:

But why make an issue of it? I know what they are supposed to be called, and i know when i am to use them. Calling them the slow and fast lane is hardly making me a poorer driver, and i don't think the idiots who don't know how to use them would be any better if you told them what the lanes are called (i'd actually be surprised if they didn't know anyway)

Why make an issue of it? So that f*cktards the length and breadth of this country eventually have the message drilled into the back of their skulls (preferably by having someone jump up and down on their heads) on how to actually use these lanes.

And at the back of your mind ... regardless of how good you think you are (and everyone think's they're good) ... the mental note on the roads is attached to the language used.

is_that_so · 08-05-2007 1:38pm

I would tend to carry on in the driving lane. If the road is empty in front of me why would I pull out? The M1 in the mornings baffles me , where you can find over 50% of the traffic in the overtaking lane, overtaking traffic that is up to 400 metres ahead of it.

cooperguy · 08-05-2007 1:54pm

As a matter of interest what is the middle lane called? How are you supposed to use a 3 lane road? Iv only ever been on the widened motorway once (im from Limerick where the widest road is the Ennis bypass dual carriageway)

Lemming · 08-05-2007 1:55pm

is_that_so wrote:

I would tend to carry on in the driving lane. If the road is empty in front of me why would I pull out? The M1 in the mornings baffles me , where you can find over 50% of the traffic in the overtaking lane, overtaking traffic that is up to 400 metres ahead of it.

And this is what pretty much underscores the back-of-the-mind comment I made. Otherwise competent drivers still don't know how to use these roads and think that by staying in the over-taking lane they'll get past traffic 400m ahead in the driving lane "fhhhheeshter", because they're in the "fhhheest" lane.

LFCFan · 08-05-2007 2:00pm

The misuse of the terms Fast/Slow lanes only contributes to the already pathetic road behaviour in this country. I've seen plenty of cars hogging the 'Overtaking' lane despite no cars in the 'driving' lane. I flash them to pull over, they do, and then they pull back out to the overtaking lane again. The kind of mentality is the mentality that we have to wipe out if we're ever going to have a decent safety record on our roads.

Mitch Connor · 08-05-2007 2:00pm

Lemming wrote:

Why make an issue of it? So that f*cktards the length and breadth of this country eventually have the message drilled into the back of their skulls (preferably by having someone jump up and down on their heads) on how to actually use these lanes.

And at the back of your mind ... regardless of how good you think you are (and everyone think's they're good) ... the mental note on the roads is attached to the language used.

So, if I followed one of these overtaking lane muppets til the pulled in somewhere, and said "Excuse me, but the lane you might know as the fast lane is actually called the overtaking lane, and the lane known as the slow lane is actually the driving lane" they will then never misuse the overtaking lane again, will they what! The people that do this are poor drivers and i doubt the language they use to describe the roads has any eral impact on their crapness.

As for considering myself a good drvier, I don't. I consider myself a fairly safe driver (as in I am unlikely to kill anyone by losing control of the car) but little more, but i do not drive beyond where i feel comfortable, and do not attempt manouvers that I do not think I have the skill to perform (such as parallel parking....:o )

Stark · 08-05-2007 2:05pm

cooperguy wrote:

As a matter of interest what is the middle lane called? How are you supposed to use a 3 lane road? Iv only ever been on the widened motorway once (im from Limerick where the widest road is the Ennis bypass dual carriageway)

"Keep left" rule applies. If the left lane is clear, you should drive in the left lane. The far right lane has the usual overtaking lane rules. If there is light traffic in the far left lane that is moving more slowly than you, you're allowed stay in the middle lane. You don't have to move into the gaps in the far left lane traffic like you would in the far right overtaking lane.

DublinDilbert · 08-05-2007 2:08pm

Stark wrote:

"Keep left" rule applies. If the left lane is clear, you should drive in the left lane. The far right lane has the usual overtaking lane rules. If there is light traffic in the far left lane that is moving more slowly than you, you're allowed stay in the middle lane. You don't have to move into the gaps in the far left lane traffic like you would in the far right overtaking lane.

Does this "rule" scale well on larger roads? parts of the M50 are going to be 4 lanes wide once the upgrade is complete... Also from some of the diagrams there will be multiple lanes merging and leaving the main carriage ways...

Stark · 08-05-2007 2:10pm

Well the 4th lane on the M50 is going to be separate to the main 3 traffic lanes. It'll only be used by traffic going directly between adjacent major interchanges (such as the N4 and the N7 interchanges).

Undertaking? Safe or legal?

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