[Article] Dual Carriageways to be re-classified as Motorways

Bards · 29-06-2007 9:17am #1

From:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/motorists-can-go-20kmh-faster-890888.html
=====================================================
Motorists can go 20kmh faster
Speed changes on major inter-city roads will make them safer

Go By Treacy Hogan
Friday June 29 2007

DRIVERS will soon be able to go 20kmh faster on the main inter-city roads.

The country's dual carriageways, stretching more than 800 kilometres, are to be re-classified as motorways.

This means that the speed limit on these roads will increase from the current 100kmh to 120kmh.

The move was revealed yesterday by Transport Minister Noel Dempsey who said the decision was being taken for safety reasons.

He said there was now little or no physical difference between dual carriageways and motorways.

The National Roads Authority has however been alarmed at the level of housing and commercial 'ribbon' developments permitted alongside dual-carriageways. When these developments are being built new access slip roads and junctions are also created.

New NRA research has shown that 26pc of road deaths and 50pc of all crashes occur at junctions where drivers are making right-hand turns off roads and this is a growing problem on dual-carriageways where planning permissions are granted for developments with access roads to the dual-carriageway.

Legislation is to be passed next week which will clear the way for the NRA to re-classify the country's dual-carriageways as motorways.

The NRA said yesterday it would move "very quickly" on the reclassification as soon as it gets the green light next week from the minister.

The Irish Independent has learned that it will will involve all of the dual carriageways on the main Dublin to Cork , Limerick, Galway, Wexford and Waterford roads.

The Atlantic corridor between Limerick-Ennis-Tuam will also be affected.

Up to 800km of dual-carriageway will be involved in the changeover due to be completed by the end of the year.

Mr Dempsey said yesterday that there were major differences between the access and development controls that apply to the two road types.

Development beside and access to motorways was far more stringently controlled than in the case of dual carriageways.

The Minister said he intended to make orders declaring certain high quality dual-carriageways to be motorways. This was needed to protect the investment being made in the national road network and to help prevent premature obsolescence of the network by developments alongside the roads. At the moment a road can only legally be a motorway if it has gone through the planning process under a Motorway Scheme.

The new legislation will create a straightforward process where a minister can declare that dual carriageways are now motorways. There will be a public consultation process before the reclassification takes place.

"The key consideration is safety here because of inappropriate development along dual-carriageways which created multiple access points," an NRA spokesperson said yesterday. "The more access points you have on dual-carriageways, the more accidents you have."

seamus · 29-06-2007 9:35am

It's good news, but I'm assuming that they're going to start modifying all those crazy crossroads into slip roads?
Otherwise we're just going to have a series of roads where you're on motorway for 5km, then it changes to DC for 1km while there's a junction, then MWay again. Payday for the Speed cameras, but a nightmare for motorists.

Doodah7 · 29-06-2007 9:35am

To be welcomed. Now if the NRA/Co Co's would redesignate former N roads that are now R roads back to 100km/h, we would be moving in the right direction.

talkingclock · 29-06-2007 11:14am

Great. What about the L drivers?
More L drivers need to remove their L plates "temporarily" then just to go from Limerick to Shannon.

tampopo · 29-06-2007 11:18am

Thought it was April 1st for several moments...

Stark · 29-06-2007 11:28am

talkingclock wrote:

Great. What about the L drivers?
More L drivers need to remove their L plates "temporarily" then just to go from Limerick to Shannon.

If they manage to get the test waiting times down to 10 weeks or less as well, then the L-drivers shouldn't be a problem. There'll have to be alternative routes in any case to facilitate everyone else who can't use the motorway.

Chris_533976 · 29-06-2007 12:19pm

Good. At least they're pushing it seriously now.

Do we even have 800km of DC though?

jjbrien · 29-06-2007 12:39pm

Does this mean the N4 dual carrigeway around Mullingar will be made into the M4. If it is there is no other route for L drivers to get to Mullingar.

E92 · 29-06-2007 12:43pm

Fantastic news. About bloody time too.
I hope we won't see a repeat of what happened when Cork County Council tried to change the speed limits on some of the Dual Carriageways to 120 km/h. Though in fairness I can perfectly understand why the NRA didnt want to let them be upgraded to 120 km/h when this was in the planning.

I could never understand why we built Motorways or Roads that through all intents and purposes are Motorways, and then not call them Motorways.

Please God we will finally be legally allowed to go at a speed that is still not that fast by European standards on a road that is said to be 7 times safer than a single carriageway.

E92 · 29-06-2007 12:47pm

jjbrien wrote:

Does this mean the N4 dual carrigeway around Mullingar will be made into the M4. If it is there is no other route for L drivers to get to Mullingar.

It can only be reclassified a Motorway if there is an alternative route available. Hence why the 3 lane section of the Naas Dual Carriageway was not reclassified to Motorway when they changed it to 3 lanes last year, even though it is a Motorway standard road. There is no alternative route till the road switches back to 2 lanes, at which point the Road becomes a Motorway.

jjbrien · 29-06-2007 1:00pm

E92 wrote:

It can only be reclassified a Motorway if there is an alternative route available. Hence why the 3 lane section of the Naas Dual Carriageway was not reclassified to Motorway when they changed it to 3 lanes last year, even though it is a Motorway standard road. There is no alternative route till the road switches back to 2 lanes, at which point the Road becomes a Motorway.

Ahh thats good then. I was driving on the N2 last night from ashbourne and it is a motorway in my mind the speed limit is 120kph but its called the n2 i found this really daft.

MLM · 29-06-2007 1:04pm

Great news! At last.

E92 · 29-06-2007 1:19pm

Of course just because a Road is a Motorway doesn't mean that it will have a Speed Limit of 120 km/h. Similarly it is perfectly possible to have a speed limit of 120 km/h on a non Motorway as well, which is one of the big benefits of having the Metric Speed limits. (it wasn't possible to do this when we had miles per hour limits)

Skyhater · 29-06-2007 2:10pm

jjbrien wrote:

Ahh thats good then. I was driving on the N2 last night from ashbourne and it is a motorway in my mind the speed limit is 120kph but its called the n2 i found this really daft.

Yea, I've mentioned that in a couple of posts here. It's crazy.
Coming from Dublin, the N2 should have "N" classification as far as J2 (St. Margaret's Turnoff) and 100km/h speed limit. After that it Should have "M" status with 120km/h speed limit.
(This is because the OLD N2 is still intact after J2, thus providing an alternative rout)

Hope this is included in the change!!!!

Irish and Proud · 29-06-2007 2:31pm

E92 wrote:

It can only be reclassified a Motorway if there is an alternative route available. Hence why the 3 lane section of the Naas Dual Carriageway was not reclassified to Motorway when they changed it to 3 lanes last year, even though it is a Motorway standard road. There is no alternative route till the road switches back to 2 lanes, at which point the Road becomes a Motorway.

The Naas DC is nowhere near motorway standard - it's can only be described is a grade separated DC - not even HQDC. There are two reasons for this:

1) Some of the interchanges are of a compact configuration thereby meaning that the slip-roads are totally sub-standard - they're just LILOs like other junctions on the same road - none of which should exist on a motorway.

2) There are still a number of entrances to private premises directly off the mainline, even though many of such were relocated to service roads during the upgrade.

Even if an alternative route was provided and the above two issues resolved, the motorway would have to stop before Newlands Cross. This junction is in the early stages of planning for grade separation - hope it will be something like the Kingswood GSJ etc, but certainly not like the Steelstown or Castlewarden GSJs.

Cheers!

mike65 · 29-06-2007 2:45pm

Minister in common sense shocker - greens furious!

Mike.

Zaph · 29-06-2007 3:40pm

E92 wrote:

Of course just because a Road is a Motorway doesn't mean that it will have a Speed Limit of 120 km/h.

True, there's that ridiculous 100km/h stretch on the M50 from Dundrum to Cookstown. Hopefully they'll change that as part of this review.

Skyhater · 29-06-2007 3:51pm

zaph wrote:

True, there's that ridiculous 100km/h stretch on the M50 from Dundrum to Cookstown. Hopefully they'll change that as part of this review.

Na!!! Infact the remainder of the M50 is due to have a 100km/h speed limit when the extra lanes are added..... This is to compensate for the narrower lanes (and extra lanes).

There is nothing wrong with this though!!! Just because a road has "M" classification, doesn't mean it is safe to drive @ 120km/h.
Vol of traffic, road conditions, number of lanes, etc. should all be taken into account.
Some Motorways should have 130km/h speed limits, with others a 90km/h would be more appropriate.

If it were up to me, i'd have different speed limits for different road conditions (just like France - 120km/h in the dry, and as low as 80km/h in the wet)

"Logical Speed limits, then enforce them with high fines"!!!!!!!!!

Fratton Fred · 29-06-2007 4:27pm

I don't see the point in this, why not just go about upgrading the dual carriageways and then reclassify them?

Does this mean the N11 through stillorgan will be a motorway, or the N7 from Naas to the Red cow?

If it gets the learners and the lorries out of the outside lane then great, but I can't see this making much of a difference at all.

Stark · 29-06-2007 4:29pm

Fratton_Fred wrote:

Does this mean the N11 through stillorgan will be a motorway, or the N7 from Naas to the Red cow?

No, it just paves the way for making some of our dual carriageways into motorways. The article gets a bit mixed up in places.

D'Peoples Voice · 29-06-2007 4:32pm

Bards wrote:

From:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/motorists-can-go-20kmh-faster-890888.html
=====================================================
"The key consideration is safety here because of inappropriate development along dual-carriageways which created multiple access points," an NRA spokesperson said yesterday.

Anyone else feel that we are coming at this problem backwards?
I'm neither for or against this move,
but I think the explanation given is a bit misleading.

A simple regulation made by a Green Minister for the Environment & Local Government to An Bord Planeala to prevent such developments being allowed through should be a simpler solution.

Fratton Fred · 29-06-2007 4:42pm

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

A simple regulation made by a Green Minister for the Environment & Local Government to An Bord Planeala to prevent such developments being allowed through should be a simpler solution.

and take away a steady source of income for TDs/local planning officers/councillors?

(Alledgedly)

mike65 · 29-06-2007 5:11pm

NRA chap was just on Last Word and this came up, he said/implied that ungrading to M standard would mean no chance of ribbon development.

I presume he was talking on his own behalf, it could have been interpreted as a little dig at Evironment dept for not making sure ribbon development does'nt happen.

Mike.

Zaph · 29-06-2007 5:19pm

Skyhater wrote:

Na!!! Infact the remainder of the M50 is due to have a 100km/h speed limit when the extra lanes are added..... This is to compensate for the narrower lanes (and extra lanes).

If it were up to me, i'd have different speed limits for different road conditions (just like France - 120km/h in the dry, and as low as 80km/h in the wet)

I acually don't have a problem with either of these, it just bugs me on the M50 that the speed limit changes for no apparent reason even though the quality of the road is unchanged. If they make it 100km/h for the whole road at least it would be consistent.

For the variable speed limits we'd need a better system of electronic road signs. Other than that obstacle, which knowing this country would take years to overcome, it make perfect sense when you see some idiot driving at high speed in a downpour.

Idbatterim · 29-06-2007 5:34pm

I drive down to Athlone regularly and you can take the motorway for about 70km from Dublin, then you have to travel at 100km on the dual carriageway which is too slow for the road and people do 120km on it anyway, unbelievably its a good logic decision!

icdg · 29-06-2007 6:29pm

Its not really even an announcement - this bill was published way back before the election and has already passed all Seanad stages. It was well flagged before then.

First of all, the roads will have to be of motorway standard. What we're talking here is HQDCs like Finglas-Ashbourne (although something will have to be done about J1-J2 there) or Kinnegad-Kilbeggen. Not the N7 Naas Road (or even the N4 Lucan Road post-upgrade), as this isn't a HQDC - its good quality, but still has a number of minor exits, private accesses, and other things which mean it can never be reclassified (which is why the original plan was to build a motorway from Naas to the M50 on a new alignment).

Roads you can probably expect upgraded to motorway:

N6 Kinnegad-Kilbeggan, and future Kilbeggan-Athlone, Athlone-Ballinasloe, and Ballinasloe-Galway schemes. With a small bit of work, the Athlone Bypass also.

N7 Annacotty-Limerick, and future Castletown-Nenagh, Nenagh-Annacotty, and Limerick bypass schemes.

N8 Cashal bypass and all future schemes.

N9 the entire route.

N25 Waterford City Bypass.

Roads which might be upgraded to motorway given circumstances:

N2 Finglas-Ashbourne
N4 Mullingar bypass - but not McNeads Bridge (Kinnegad-Mullingar) scheme unless majorly upgraded and an alternative route provided.
N18 future N7 junction-Galway (but needs a bit of work in places).
N20/N21 Limerick-Adare (although its so quiet I don't see the point)

spacetweek · 29-06-2007 6:56pm

Stark wrote:

No, it just paves the way for making some of our dual carriageways into motorways. The article gets a bit mixed up in places.

Agreed - for example, it says that the "entire" route from Dublin to Wexford will be motorway. The Wicklow-Gorey section is a possibility, but definitely not Bray-Wicklow: even the new sections of the N11 along there are not up to full spec.

Examples of duallers which could not be reclassified include N4 at Mullingar (too narrow), N7 Dublin-Naas and N4 Lucan (access not controlled), N1 north of Dundalk (original route gone), N11 Bray-Wicklow (below spec and access not controlled), N11 within Dublin and N81 Tallaght BP (waaay below spec).

It's likely that roads like the N3 at Blanch, the new N18 and the Cork Southern Ring could be motorways if you wanted, maybe after some minor modifications.

Zaph, the M50 changes speed limit to 100k on the Southern Cross because it becomes very twisty. 120 would be dangerous here.

I added the total network up once, HQDC, motorway, and potential duallers, for present and future, and got 921 km. Pretty decent network length for a country our size.

Victor · 29-06-2007 7:06pm

icdg wrote:

N25 Waterford City Bypass.

I suspect part of the original routes will be obliterated, leaving no alternative route.

N18 future N7 junction-Galway (but needs a bit of work in places).

No alternative route from Limerick to Shannon.

spacetweek wrote:

N3 at Blanch,

No alternative.

Cork Southern Ring

Parts of this are very mediocre. Limited sight lines, lanes that just disappear, not hard should in places.

mike65 · 29-06-2007 7:09pm

Nearly a 1000 km would be good! Finland has 653, Portuagal 1,700, Sweden 1,428, Netherlands 2,235 and erm Germany 11,980.

Mike.

mike65 · 29-06-2007 7:13pm

I suspect part of the original routes will be obliterated, leaving no alternative route.

Whaaaaa? Waterford City shall remain in place, the N25 from Kilmeaden to Slieverue will be a R standard with 80 kph max which is of absolutly no importance as no-one has done more than that along most of that section for some years!

Mike.

Victor · 29-06-2007 7:19pm

I said "part of the original routes will be obliterated". I'm not obliterating the city.

http://www.thrdo.com/pdfmap/waterfordbypass2.pdf

Its actually parts of the N9 and N24 will be changed. So they are obliterating Kilkenny.

[Article] Dual Carriageways to be re-classified as Motorways

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