Changes to the Driver Licencing System Mega Thread

[kbannon]

from http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/mot...158811124.html

Judge rules on learner drivers
Ronan McGreevy
A District Court judge has said he intends to disqualify provisional licence holders who drive on the road without a qualified driver or without L-plates, from the start of next year.

Judge Murrough Connellan indicated his intentions at two separate District Court sittings in the past month. Judge Connellan said such practices showed a "total disregard for the purpose of the driving test and driving licence".

He made his remarks at Kildare District Court when he fined a provisional driver €150 for driving unaccompanied. He made similar remarks at Bray District Court, when he said there was any number of youths driving around on provisional licences with a string of offences.

The law governing provisional drivers is the Road Traffic (Licensing of Drivers) Regulations, 1999, which forms part of the Road Traffic Act.
It states that all provisional drivers on their first, second and subsequent licences must drive accompanied by a qualified driver, and must display L-plates, though no specific penalties are mentioned. It was thrown into some confusion last year, when another district court judge, Gerard Haughton, threw out several offences relating to driving unaccompanied and the display of L-plates.

According to Judge Haughton, Article 20 is drafted in such a way that it does not make either of the charges brought against the provisional licence holder offences, although he did concede that such acts render a provisional licence invalid, and could have insurance consequences.
Some fellow-judges followed suit by dismissing similar cases.

The issue of the law concerning learner drivers is set to be addressed in detail when the Government unveils its new five-year Road Safety strategy tomorrow.

It is likely to recommend sweeping changes to the licensing system for learner drivers, with the replacement of the provisional licence with a learners' permit, which will end the anomaly of second provisional licence holders being able to drive unaccompanied.

There are likely to be compulsory lessons for learner drivers, and all driving instructors will be put on a statutory basis, and will be monitored by the Government.

Traditionally, because of the huge number of provisional drivers, gardaí have been reluctant to bring prosecutions, because of fears that such cases would clog up the courts.

Long waiting lists for the driving test was another factor which has often been cited as a reason why so few prosecutions are brought, despite the widespread flouting of the law.

Last year the Courts Service revealed that driving unaccompanied and the non-display of L-plates were not even in the top 3,000 cases brought before the courts in a given year. The chief executive of the Road Safety Authority Noel Brett, said there was a pattern emerging of judges taking a harder line on motoring offences.

"Clearly justices are sick of seeing some of the stuff they have to deal with in terms of motoring offences. The provisional licensing regime is in place for learner drivers for a practical purpose, and we need more people to comply with it."

Mr Brett said waiting lists for driving tests are now down to 20 weeks, and will be down to 10 weeks by next February, leaving less excuse for provisional licence holders not to do their test.

AXA Ireland chief executive John O'Neill said Ireland is outside the norm in other European countries in not having draconian penalties for learner drivers who break the law. "We need to protect young people against themselves. I would be very pleased to see the judiciary apply the laws in the state.

"It is not that we need new legislation, we need the enforcement of the existing laws of the road, and we would support the judge wholeheartedly, because the enforcement of this particular law will save lives," he said.

AA public affairs spokesman Conor Faughnan said the provisional licence system was an "utterly unworkable shambles", but he said the new road safety strategy and the greatly reduced waiting times for the driving test should make the law easier to implement.

© 2007 The Irish Times

[Wishbone Ash]

It states that all provisional drivers on their first, second and subsequent licences must drive accompanied by a qualified driver,

That should read (in the case of category B) first, third and subsequent!

end the anomaly of second provisional licence holders being able to drive unaccompanied

Although not generally known, driving unaccompanied on a second provisional is only permitted in category B vehicles. One may not drive unaccompanied at any time in other categories (except in motorcycles and tractors).

[kbannon]

That is expected to change under the new permit system but presumably won't affect those currently on a 2nd (category B) provisional.

[Wishbone Ash]

Originally Posted by kbannon

That is expected to change under the new permit system but presumably won't affect those currently on a 2nd (category B) provisional.

Will it affect those operating under the 12/08/85 rule?

[jhegarty]

Its all lots of bit talk if you ask me....(i know no one did )

[pa990]

What day is the RSA due to make an announcement, and will it be on their website to read on that day ?

and if it is announced today (five-year Road Safety strategy).. when and where can i find it

[pa990]

whoops

all updated on rsa.ie

[the_syco]

Mr Brett said waiting lists for driving tests are now down to 20 weeks, and will be down to 10 weeks by next February, leaving less excuse for provisional licence holders not to do their test.

Everywhere, or in just some places? As at the moment, I'll be waiting a f**k more than 30. Ah, sure, I'm only waiting 2 weeks so far, with no letter saying they've took my payment (my bank says they did, though)...

[Tigger]

http://www.rsa.ie/Home/upload/File/Introduction%20of%20Learner%20Permit%20and%20Changes%20to%20the%20Driver%20Licensing%20System%20final%20confirmed.doc



i've looked it up ad the new rules state that as of 30-10-07 you must be accompanied and it's a penal offence not to be

comments?questions?

links coming




Q: When does this new rule come into effect?

A: This is coming into effect as and from 30 October 2007.


Q: I am currently on a second (provisional licence) learner permit for driving a car, and was not required to be accompanied heretofore with this (provisional licence) learner permit. Must I now be accompanied?

A: Yes, you must be accompanied at all times when driving with a (provisional licence) learner permit for a car.

[Lawless_Samurai]

Crap

[Wishbone Ash]

Threads Merged.

[DonJose]

Originally Posted by Lawless_Samurai

Crap

About time you mean

[Dapos]

How can they just pop up a date. give us 4 days notice. What about all the people who are waiting for the test. mine was delayed 3 months because the tallaght centre closed down and they never told me. I'm off the road now for a month basically that is if i pass my test!

[Tigger]

Originally Posted by Wishbone Ash

Threads Merged.

donno why? i wanted it to be visable with the little prieview thingy for anyone who it would affect
now its just gonna say that un-accompanied drivers will be prosecuted;
to which posters on second provos will think"oh that dosen't affect me"

i'm not complaining it dosen't affect me i just thought that all the 2nd provisional holders on google after the news a few minutes ago might likre somewhere to go any discuss what is gonna be a huge pain for a lot of people

[Tigger]

Originally Posted by Dapos

How can they just pop up a date. give us 4 days notice. What about all the people who are waiting for the test. mine was delayed 3 months because the tallaght centre closed down and they never told me. I'm off the road now for a month basically that is if i pass my test!

and how nervous are you gonna be doing the test now
i did my test 4oo years ago an failed got back in my car and drove back to work

i know of a lot of people in thge west of ireland whoare gonna either have to take down their l plates and ignotre this rule or wal a long way to work cos there is no public transport here