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Leaving the catholic church, its easier then you think: defecting

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    #2
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Thanks for the info. Have been meaning to getting around to doing this for ages!
    lostexpectation wrote:
    http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com
    An interesting blog -- worth a read for its rare point of view.


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    #3
    GhostInTheRuins
    Registered Users Posts: 5,962 ✭✭✭GhostInTheRuins


    What's the point? The only reason you'd want to do that is if you wanted to change religion. If you're atheist it's really pointless in my opinion.


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    #4
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Wait...if they still claim you as a Christian, then what does this process represent?


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    #5
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Zillah wrote: »
    Wait...if they still claim you as a Christian, then what does this process represent?
    It means your unborn kids can't get into certain schools. ;)

    Don't think I'd to bothered defecting (to where?) anyhow but thanks for the info.
    Maybe we should make it an A&A sticky. :D


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    #6
    Fallen Seraph
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭Fallen Seraph


    Dades wrote: »
    It means your unborn kids can't get into certain schools. ;)

    Don't think I'd to bothered defecting (to where?) anyhow but thanks for the info.
    Maybe we should make it an A&A sticky. :D


    Well this question has been posed before, so perhaps a sticky isn't the worst of ideas.


    As fun as sending a letter to the primate is, a male is technically excommunicated for passing through a nunnery. Which I find quite amusing. People should just hop over the nunnery walls to say a friendly hello to the nuns and to remark to the nuns about how, due to your chance meeting, that you are now excommunicate.


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    #7
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Dades wrote: »
    Don't think I'd to bothered defecting (to where?)

    The Devil, clearly.


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    #8
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Fallen Seraph wrote: »
    Well this question has been posed before, so perhaps a sticky isn't the worst of ideas.
    Very true. Therefore I've included a link to this thread in the "Related Links" sticky.
    So any new questions can be referred there initially. :)


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    #9
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    This sounds most unsatisfying.

    If you were to leave my church I'd give you a nice framed certificate certifying you to be a hell-bound apostate. ;)


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    #10
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    PDN wrote: »
    This sounds most unsatisfying.

    If you were to leave my church I'd give you a nice framed certificate certifying you to be a hell-bound apostate. ;)

    Can I get one?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #11
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Me too! But only if the cert starts off "In the name of God..." or something equivalent. So I can be sure that I'm getting it from somebody who's qualified to give it. I'd hate to receive something fake from somebody who doesn't believe that they're dictating conditions on behalf of god.


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    #12
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Actually, there's a possible business opportunity in this. Would it be acceptable for a pastor to bring money in for his ministry through the sale of "Certificates of Apostasy"? Or is it a form of simony?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #13
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    PDN wrote: »
    This sounds most unsatisfying.

    If you were to leave my church I'd give you a nice framed certificate certifying you to be a hell-bound apostate. ;)

    What address can I send my application to PDN?


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    #14
    Asiaprod
    Registered Users Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭Asiaprod


    ned78 wrote: »
    What address can I send my application to PDN?
    +1:)
    Zillah wrote:
    The Devil, clearly.
    You have clearly not been paying attention, its Satan:).


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    #15
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    or Santa as secular liberalism refers to him in modern times.


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    #16
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,517 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    PDN wrote: »
    This sounds most unsatisfying.

    If you were to leave my church I'd give you a nice framed certificate certifying you to be a hell-bound apostate. ;)

    But you can't even resize a image. I hope your calligraphy is up to scratch!
    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Actually, there's a possible business opportunity in this. Would it be acceptable for a pastor to bring money in for his ministry through the sale of "Certificates of Apostasy"? Or is it a form of simony?

    Well if you keep all the profits...


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    #17
    Thundercracker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭Thundercracker


    Zillah wrote: »
    Wait...if they still claim you as a Christian, then what does this process represent?

    Exactly, I mean if you want to leave the church, stop going to mass. Why go to all the trouble of filling out forms and having some priest sign paperwork just so you can know within yourself that you dont belong to the Catholic Church. Surely, if you are that upset and against the teachings of the church you can just stop getting involved, the average suburban household doesnt have that much involvement with their local parish these days anyway unless they choose too

    And didnt bible class 101 teach you, above all else, that you have the free will to make this choice yourself and you dont need to fill out forms and get permission from someone else to leave the institution

    think of all those in the one in four organisation who, despite the years of constant abuse at the hands of the christian brothers, continued to go to mass. im not a religious person by nature but this just shows that some people just want to make a scene


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    #18
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    D.T. Jesus wrote: »
    What's the point? The only reason you'd want to do that is if you wanted to change religion. If you're atheist it's really pointless in my opinion.


    whats the point? its to leave the Roman Catholic Church.

    christian is description rather then an organisation...?

    clericalwhisper is a useful blog, he doesn't comment that much just reproduces articles

    the keyword they use in the process is defection rather then apostasy

    I was saying on atheist.ie I think the Bishop of limerick used it last week when talking about celebrity culture obviously using it in a negative pejorative tone

    you can see on the clericalwhisper blog post above the owner claims that apostate isn't a derogatory word, but I think it is

    it is usual that pdn, the bigot fighter that he is would use that word.
    http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?apostate
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apostate

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy
    Apostasy (from Greek αποστασία, meaning a defection or revolt, from απο, apo, "away, apart", στασις, stasis, "standing") is a term generally employed to describe the formal abandonment or renunciation of one's religion, especially if the motive is deemed unworthy

    some may think atheist have to work hard to find a way to insulted but its not so hard when you have the bishops associating secularism with materialism consumerism vainity etc...

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/being-an-irish-celebrity-can-be-dangerous-warns-bishop-1213487.html


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    #19
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    whats the point? its to leave the Roman Catholic Church.

    christian is description rather then an organisation...?

    clericalwhisper is a useful blog, he doesn't comment that much just reproduces articles

    the keyword they use in the process is defection rather then apostasy

    I was saying on atheist.ie I think the Bishop of limerick used it last week when talking about celebrity culture obviously using it in a negative pejorative tone

    you can see on the clericalwhisper blog post above the owner claims that apostate isn't a derogatory word, but I think it is

    it is usual that pdn, the bigot fighter that he is would use that word.
    http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?apostate
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apostate

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy
    Apostasy (from Greek αποστασία, meaning a defection or revolt, from απο, apo, "away, apart", στασις, stasis, "standing") is a term generally employed to describe the formal abandonment or renunciation of one's religion, especially if the motive is deemed unworthy

    Apostate means to move away from one's standing in the church. I thought it would be something for a real atheist to wear as a badge of honour - absolutely no offence intended.

    I enjoy the odd piece of friendly banter on these boards - it would be a shame if we all became too po-faced to permit good natured humour.


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    #20
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    I thought it would be something for a real atheist to wear as a badge of honour - absolutely no offence intended.

    ah, but wearing it as a badge of honour would legitimise the church we've rejected. 'Look at us, we're not catholics', as opposed to 'we're atheists, you can look at us if you like but it's all just pointless'.


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    #21
    cavedave
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    Can't you get excommunicated by denying the existence of the Holy Ghost. As far as I know it is a mortal sin that gaurentees eternal damnation. Kind of like god as the Candyman.
    Here are some other things you can do to get kicked out without filling in forms
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication#Automatic_excommunication_.28.22latae_sententiae_excommunication.22.29

    From the other side does anyone ever quite like the idea of religion except for all that god stuff? The Unitarians seem really nice and you get to sing nice songs. The Amish down in Waterford are almost annoyingly happy, without tripping over into creepy cultdom. Can you join the Amish if you do not believe in god?


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    #22
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    you could lie....

    and we do have the experience of religion without the god stuff, they're called communities.
    that may have come across a tad more abrupt that I had intended, but it's half ten and I'm wasted.

    --edit
    Procurement of a completed abortion (canon 1398), or

    anyone fancy an abortion?


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    #23
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Mordeth wrote: »
    and we do have the experience of religion without the god stuff, they're called communities.


    I hate when people make these sort of mistakes.

    "But, religion is good because people need a moral framework."
    "We need religion because without a community we're all much worse off."

    Religion =/= morality
    Religion =/= community


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    #24
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    a religion in and of itself no, but what do you think organised religion is organising?

    we're a community here... I see no reason to deny the god lovers their community either..


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    #25
    smirkingmaurice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭smirkingmaurice


    well at least you don't run the risk of being murdered for defecting like some other religions/cults that are being catered for in Ireland today, god speed


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    #26
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    not these days no, but that's no thanks to christianity. secularists had to beat the catholic church back slowly, and with great difficulty over many hundreds of years for us to enjoy the freedoms from religious bigotry you seem to admire.


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    #27
    smirkingmaurice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭smirkingmaurice


    past is past,ya catholic church did woeful things and we all know that, what i cant understand is that now a cult is thriving on this guilt and everyone is willing to stand back and watch them politely as they change our world into an even worse place!!


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    #28
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    ......

    are atheists the cult?


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    #29
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Mordeth wrote: »
    ah, but wearing it as a badge of honour would legitimise the church we've rejected. 'Look at us, we're not catholics', as opposed to 'we're atheists, you can look at us if you like but it's all just pointless'.

    Nah, I'd like the full set. Ideally, I'd like a certificate of damnation from every religion and denomination thereof.

    ecumenically,
    Scofflaw


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    #30
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    I'd like the full set. Ideally, I'd like a certificate of damnation from every religion and denomination thereof.

    Yar, you be sigged.


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    #31
    Nerin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,523 ✭✭✭✭Nerin


    Yar, you be sigged.
    i second that motion :D


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