Commuter Parking on Riverwood Road - crazy idea

daymobrew · 05-12-2007 12:37am #1

I started a thread on neighbours.ie about the commuter parking for Coolmine train station.
I suggested tolerating parking on one side of the road to make it easier for residents to exit the estate entrances.

Only one person replied and s/he has a polar opposite opinion of me. I welcome the alternate viewpoint. I am posting here to solicit more replies.

So, who here has other ideas?

Zaph · 05-12-2007 12:56pm

As someone who parks at Coolmine station I do have some sympathy for the local residents. I'm just back using the train after a year away from it and I'm shocked by the huge increase in cars at the station in that year. I'm always there early so getting parking is never a problem, but I was running late one day last week and got to the car park at a time that would have gotten me one of the last few spots last year, but I ended up having to drive out or the car park and park quite a long way up Riverwood Road.

While a multi-story carpark would be great, I can see two major problems with this:
1 - the huge increase in on-street parking for however long it takes to build. The whole are will be a complete disaster but I don't think there's anything that can be done about that.
2 - the likelihood that once it's built IR will start charging to use it. This will deter many people who will just park on the surrounding roads.

If a new car park goes ahead IR need to guarantee local residents that it will be a) completed in as short a time as possible to minimise disruption; and b) it won't cost to use it.

Zaph · 05-12-2007 5:59pm

Coincidentally, from today's Irish Times motoring supplement:

Extra charges for commuters

Thousands of motorists who leave their cars at train stations before commuting to work face extra charges next year, as Iarnród Éireann plans to significantly expand the number of pay-parking facilities across the Republic.

Motorists, who already face increases in motor tax in today's Budget and rising fuel costs, could see the cost of travelling to work rise by hundreds of euro per annum.

The rail company has already introduced four pay-parking sites but said it expects to open "dozens" more. The next pay-parking site is expected to be opened in Sallins, Co Kildare, in the coming months, while planning permission has been granted for a new pay-parking facility at Newbridge station.

Other locations where pay parking is planned include Rush and Lusk station, in north Co Dublin; Drogheda, Co Louth; Coolmine, Dublin 15; and Portmarnock, Co Dublin. Multistorey options are being considered in Drogheda, Coolmine and Portmarnock, Iarnród Éireann spokesman Barry Kenny told The Irish Times.

Gormanston station in Co Meath, on the Northern Commuter line, had its free-of-charge car park replaced with pay-parking in September.

Up to 60 cars were using the station on a daily basis before the new car park was developed. Half of them were parking in the existing small car park, and the remainder were leaving their vehicles on a public road.

"In Gormanston we now have 90 cars per day using it and it is a 250-space car park. It is an area where there is likely to be further development," said Kenny.

"Some people are still using the road, but the local authority will be marking it as a no parking area soon," he added.

Pay parking has also been introduced in Leixlip/Louisa Bridge station in Co Kildare, which is 80 to 90 per cent full on a daily basis, according to Kenny. Tullamore, Co Offaly and Arklow, Co Wicklow also have pay parking.

Iarnród Éireann is charging €2 per day for the parking facilities or a weekly pass for €5, representing at least an extra €260 per annum for motorists who commute by train. This is on top of hundreds of euro already spent on annual rail tickets.

The company says the money is being used to cover the cost of upgrading parking facilities including CCTV and improved areas for bicycles.

Labour spokesman on commuter affairs Senator Dominic Hannigan said the fact that the new parking charges were not regulated by the Department of Transport was a concern.

"Train fares are regulated and car parking charges which are part of the overall cost of travelling should also be regulated."

Recent census figures showed that 57 per cent drove a car to work in 2006, up from 55 per cent in 2002.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motors/2007/1205/1196713281438.html

daymobrew · 05-12-2007 6:30pm

zaph wrote: »

As someone who parks at Coolmine station I do have some sympathy for the local residents.

How far do you drive to park at/near the station? Have you excuses ready

Gaspode · 05-12-2007 10:24pm

daymobrew wrote: »

I started a thread on neighbours.ie about the commuter parking for Coolmine train station.
I suggested tolerating parking on one side of the road to make it easier for residents to exit the estate entrances.

Only one person replied and s/he has a polar opposite opinion of me. I welcome the alternate viewpoint. I am posting here to solicit more replies.

So, who here has other ideas?

The only answers I can see are Multi-story car parks at stations or decent feeder buses from estates that are just too far away to realistically walk from.
I cant see the latter becoming a possibility until private bus companies competing with Dublin Bus get the go-ahead. It will happen but possibly not for a few years yet.
The former is more likely as it will be a source of good revenue for IR. They can charge what they like for parking and (like at the airport) people will simply cough up - what choice will they have?

daymobrew · 06-12-2007 12:33pm

zaph wrote: »

I live in Hartstown. What do I need excuses for?

You need an excuse because commuter parking is causing considerable distress and inconvenience for residents.
You personally, because you generally park at the station, may not be a direct cause.

I think that Harstown is well within cycling distance to the station. It's certainly less than 3 miles. I admit that 3 miles is probably a good bit further than some of those driving to the station.

Some kids on my road get a lift to Coolmine Community School - 1.4 miles away! When I attended Coolmine I cycled twice that.

I cycle 9 miles each way to work. There is a lot less rain than people claim.

Stark · 06-12-2007 1:58pm

What's parking like for bikes at the station? Is it safe?

daymobrew · 07-12-2007 12:36pm

zaph wrote: »

I should point out that had proper access been left open to Clonsilla station from the Hartstown side of the new Ongar road I would walk there. I believe it would take about 10 minutes.

I keep seeing these extinguishing right-of-way notices at Blanchardstown Library - I assume that there is anti-social behaviour at these locations. So, like the speed ramps on Riverwood Road, the powers-that-be punish everyone instead of tackling the root cause. :mad:

zaph wrote: »

I agree with you, it's ridiculous the amount of extra traffic on the roads caused by the school run, but what relevence has this to Coolmine train station?

The relevance is that kids are being taught to be lazy by their parents. Big shock then when they turn out to be lazy adults :rolleyes:
When I go to our residents association meetings in The Carpenter I walk. Most of the other 4 committee members drive the 800 metres!!

Stark wrote: »

What's parking like for bikes at the station? Is it safe?

There is partially covered bike parking on the car park side of the ticket office. Safe - I don't know, but appropriate locks should keep your bike where you left it.

daymobrew · 07-12-2007 5:12pm

zaph wrote: »

What if, for argument's sake, the train line ran through Tyrrellstown? I'd imagine a lot of people from Riverwood would drive up and park there and wouldn't think twice about it.

You are probably right that people in Riverwood would be two faced and park willy nilly in Tyrrellstown.

On the same two-faced theme, I know the guy who requested the speed ramps that are in the Riverwood Road - he's a bit heavy on the accelerator. :rolleyes:

How many parents park on the double yellow lines outside St Patrick's NS in Diswellstown - and get very aggressive with Gardai when they try to move them along? How many parents park illegally on the Dr Troy Bridge while collecting their children from St Mochta's? How many of these people will complain about dangerous driving in other areas? Pot. Kettle. Black.

Zaph · 07-12-2007 5:17pm

daymobrew wrote: »

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Human nature, nothing more, nothing less. We're all guilty of it a one time or another.

Pat Dunne · 09-12-2007 4:25pm

Guys it time we started a campaign for a proper feeder bus service in the area and if Dublin Bus don't provide it perhaps some private company should be encouraged to start one.

Murt10 · 09-12-2007 8:57pm

daymobrew wrote: »

I keep seeing these extinguishing right-of-way notices at Blanchardstown Library -

Does this mean that you will no longer be able to walk down by Coolmine Community School and Verona to get to the Centre. And the powers that be want us to walk and take public transport.

This is the route that many local people use to walk to the centre. Lots of people people coming on the train, many of whom work in the centre, get to the Centre through this entry.

If they close it, this will no doubt add to the number who will drive there. As previous threads relate, the 39 bus service is useless It will also cut down on the 15 mins exercise that it takes to walk there and back. Having to go the long way, down the Snugborough Road would make the walk just that bit too long.

Nice one Fingal

daymobrew · 10-12-2007 11:44am

Murt10 wrote: »

Does this mean that you will no longer be able to walk down by Coolmine Community School and Verona to get to the Centre.

You misunderstood - planning items are often put on public display in the foyer of Blanchardstown Library. It was there that I saw the notice about removing the right of way that zaph mentioned.

Pat Dunne · 10-12-2007 5:28pm

daymobrew wrote: »

You misunderstood - planning items are often put on public display in the foyer of Blanchardstown Library. It was there that I saw the notice about removing the right of way that zaph mentioned.

There some much needed clarification needed on this very important issue.

Can you tell us exactly where the public right of way is to be extinguished? Please use the correct road names etc, and not "near Blanchardstown Library", as that type of description is way to vague.

tony 2 tone · 10-12-2007 9:36pm

Pat Dunne wrote: »

There some much needed clarification needed on this very important issue.

Can you tell us exactly where the public right of way is to be extinguished? Please use the correct road names etc, and not "near Blanchardstown Library", as that type of description is way to vague.

He is talking about the route from Hartstown, to Clonsilla station via the Ongar road. not 'near Blanch library', which he never said.
The Library bit was to do with.......planning items are often put on public display in the foyer of Blanchardstown Library

Rosser · 11-12-2007 11:58pm

Just to get back on topic, yellow lines have been painted within Riverwood which should sort this out although it will probably push the parking problem somewhere else.

Zaph · 12-12-2007 12:02am

Given that Fingal CoCo haven't taken Riverwood in hand yet, can Castlethorn actually do that?

daymobrew · 12-12-2007 2:43pm

zaph wrote: »

Given that Fingal CoCo haven't taken Riverwood in hand yet, can Castlethorn actually do that?

Yes, Castlethorn can do this. They can do quite a lot of things because the road is in private ownership.

Zaph · 12-12-2007 2:46pm

But who then enforces it? Presumably as it's a private road the Gardaí won't be handing out parking tickets, so do they just use private clampers?

Rosser · 12-12-2007 8:55pm

zaph wrote: »

But who then enforces it? Presumably as it's a private road the Gardaí won't be handing out parking tickets, so do they just use private clampers?

Castlethorn maintain it but it is open to public access so is subject to the Road Traffic Act.

Interesting to see if the Guards give a period of grace before ticketing. Some clown parked on a ramp today which for aestethic reasons don't have yellow lines (would ruin the brick effect), he apparently thinks this makes him immune :rolleyes:

Murt10 · 12-12-2007 11:07pm

Rosser wrote: »

Castlethorn maintain it but it is open to public access so is subject to the Road Traffic Act.

Interesting to see if the Guards give a period of grace before ticketing. Some clown parked on a ramp today which for aestethic reasons don't have yellow lines (would ruin the brick effect), he apparently thinks this makes him immune :rolleyes:

He either parked on double yellow lines or he didn't. If he didn't they why would he get a ticket.

At the same time, if Castlethorn decide to put down yellow lines on their road, then what law would I be breaking by parking on them. Are they legally enforceable? There may be a speed limit on the road, but I would doubt if a private company puts double yellow lines on the road, whether any Garda or Court is going to punish the "offender"

I think I'll go and paint the road outside my house with double yellow lines. Same difference.

It reminds me of those spots in car parks "Reserved for those with Children". I didn't ask them to have children, or to take the children shopping with them. I always park in these spaces if they are free - I have children at home, does that qualify? Let the people with children, often driving big SUV's, find another parking spot, this one is mine.

They will be reserving car parking spots soon for small foreign people, with beer bellies, smelly feet and dandruff next.

I never park in disabled spots however.

Rosser · 13-12-2007 12:06am

Murt10 wrote: »

It reminds me of those spots in car parks "Reserved for those with Children". I didn't ask them to have children, or to take the children shopping with them. I always park in these spaces if they are free - I have children at home, does that qualify? Let the people with children, often driving big SUV's, find another parking spot, this one is mine.
.

Those spots are designed for people who have kids and who may have to help them out of the car, like a kid in a baby seat. They are also marginally wider so a pram can fit along side the car. Maybe a parent who is at home minding the kid can't just leave the kid in the house while they pop in to Tesco for an hour. But sure as long as you're ok that's all that matters, and to use your logic either there's a sign there or there's not.

daymobrew · 13-12-2007 1:23pm

Rosser wrote: »

Some clown parked on a ramp today which for aestethic reasons don't have yellow lines (would ruin the brick effect), he apparently thinks this makes him immune :rolleyes:

I saw that car (still there - as if it wasn't moved overnight). As there are no double yellow lines, it's a broken centre line and s/he is not parked within 5 metres of a junction I don't see a violation.
I do think that it was silly oversight by the the people with yellow paint to omit the ramps. Which is more of an eyesore - a load of cars or yellow lines?

I wonder where all the cars have moved to? What estate have we moved the problem onto?

Rosser - Is it safe to assume that you are happy with the double yellow lines and the NIMBY result?

Rosser · 14-12-2007 12:04am

daymobrew wrote: »

Rosser - Is it safe to assume that you are happy with the double yellow lines and the NIMBY result?

I sure am, if there's a NIMBY forum I'm the ideal moderator

They are probably all parking in the parent and child spots down in Tesco

daymobrew · 10-01-2008 11:02am

Rosser wrote: »

Some clown parked on a ramp today which for aestethic reasons don't have yellow lines (would ruin the brick effect), he apparently thinks this makes him immune :rolleyes:

Said 'clown' was clamped yesterday (Jan 9). The car was there at 8pm last night but gone by 8:30am this morning.
IMO the unfair part was that there was no notice on the car with instructions on how to have the clamp removed.

I still maintain that if there are no markings to prohibit something then it is by default permitted. A solid white line along the middle of the ramp would serve the same purpose (it's illegal to park alongside a solid white line).

BostonB · 02-02-2008 11:54pm

Either the road is suitable for all day parking or it isn't. I would also argue that it isn't as its too narrow and too much traffic passing through. They'll be more soon too when they open that road to Porterstown. However unless it properly managed, with parking restrictions, people are going to park where they can.

IMO a park and ride should not be put here it should be put further up the line, as then people will be driving against the flow of traffic in the morning.

murphaph · 03-02-2008 11:52am

The NIMBY's who go about stopping up pedestrian rights of way are more anti-social than the louts they claim to be defending themselves against IMO.

I have written repeatedly to councillors and council staff about the locked gate into Portersgate or whatever it's called. It was supposed to be reopened according to FCC minutes when the Ongar Road was complete yet it remains locked and Hartstown residents who used to walk through that area to reach Clonsilla Station now have to walk a long and indirect route.

Fingal CC talk out of either side of their mouth wrt sustainable trasnport. They have grand cycleway plans in the development plan yet all these cycleways are gradually being stopped up and the residents of these new estates are contributing themselves to added car dependence.

Fingal Mulhuddart area councillors don't give a monkies about the older estates in D15 afaic. The Ongar Road was supposed to bring benefits. It now takes longer for residents to reach clonsilla station than when they walked across open fields! It's a joke. All hail the SUV.

Murt10 · 07-02-2008 9:10pm

Driving by Rockfield Estate this morning (actually not driving, waiting for those bloody train gates to open). I happened to notice a Garda on duty at Rockfield. Garda traffic cones everywhere stopping people from parking. Parking cones also in Kirkpatrick.

Have the Gardai got the power to stop a motorist, who has paid his road tax, from parking outside any house that they choose, provided the person parking is not blocking the exit to a driveway, or creating an obstruction?

I know the home owner may not like it, but surely as the owner does not own the road outside his house, there is nothing he can do about it.

I know that in Town that they have parking disks for residents only, but this has not spread to the suberbs as far as I'm aware.

Murt

BostonB · 08-02-2008 1:01am

I assume (perhaps wrongly) that a guard can tell you move on, for no reason at all.

daymobrew · 08-02-2008 9:57am

Murt10 wrote: »

Have the Gardai got the power to stop a motorist, who has paid his road tax, from parking outside any house that they choose, provided the person parking is not blocking the exit to a driveway, or creating an obstruction?

I know the home owner may not like it, but surely as the owner does not own the road outside his house, there is nothing he can do about it.

I'd heard that commuter parking in Rockfield was preventing wide vehicles from accessing the road e.g. bin truck, furniture delivery trucks.
I'd also heard that one day the residents, fed up with such parking, got up early and blocked access to their road by parking their own cars across the entrance.

You are right that the home owner does not own the road outside their house.
The Garda can claim that the car is causing an obstruction and direct the driver to move on.

The residents must have done a lot of complaining to the Gardai to have a member placed on the road. Squeaky wheel gets the grease...

Murt10 · 08-02-2008 10:21am

I imagine that most residents living in the vicinity of the Station would like to see residents only parking for the area. I wonder how much has been done in this regard before it's too late

When CIE get about to upgrading Coolmine Station car park. which I understand is on the cards, there is going to be complete parking mayhem in the area, as people used to parking there on a daily basis, have to find an alternative place to park their cars

Even after the new extended car park is open there are still going to be parking problems for the local residents as CIE intend charging for what has been provided heretofore, and I can see a large number of people opting not to pay E2 - E3per day for something that can be provided free literally down the road.

Murt

Commuter Parking on Riverwood Road - crazy idea

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