BESS vs Commerce

ciaranajl · 06-08-2008 7:18pm #1

I know most of your first thoughts will probably be, "here we go again". I already looked over some threads separately dealing with the two courses, but I wanted to get some feedback from students of either course (or simply students of the college) who have views on which one is better.

Commerce is #1 and BESS is #2 on my CAO form.

My opinions on both:

Commerce, I believe, is better in a way because it is 18 hours a week rather than BESS's 13 hours and it is only three years long, whereas BESS is four years. It almost seems like with BESS they try to spread it over four years for the sake of abiding by their four-year degree rule.

BESS is more suited to what I'm looking for in a degree, though. It has more of a mix. Everyone I talk to says that studying business is an utter waste of time. I've been recommended - and I agree with these recommendations - that, given the current ever-changing economic climate, studying sociology/psychology or economics (my third choice is TSM economics/psych) is very worthwhile. Plus I'd like to study French with the course and possibly go on an erasmus (if even just for a term). Another con regarding the Commerce course is all the numbers. I'm not a fan of accounting, whatsoever, and the only career opportunity listed for the course that mildly interests me is banking/finance (I'd then hope to use this capital to set up my own business).

Anyway, aside from that, the more important thing for me is the social aspect of each college - after all, you're spending the next three/four years of your life there. How do the colleges compare?

Would appreciate some feedback on this if you get a chance. Thanks a lot.

(PS, if you're wondering why I'm bothering to still talk about BESS even though Commerce usually requires fewer points -- it's because I might not make UCD B3 maths requirement for reasons of not trying hard -- it was my "seventh" subject -- rather than lack of ability. That sounds cocky, but needed to throw it in in case someone says "don't do commerce if you're bad at maths!")

Économiste Monétaire · 06-08-2008 7:25pm

How about 'Don't do economics if you're really bad at maths'.

Anyways, Commerce and BESS aren't interchangeable courses. Commerce course has very little economics (which you seem to have an interest in), three at the least - 5 at the most (depending which stream you choose). Commerce don't do sociology, or politics. It might have been better to ask this before the CAO change of mind window.

irishpacker · 06-08-2008 8:51pm

Alright mate,

I'm just heading in my 4th and final year of BESS, where I'm specializing in Business and Political Science, and I have loads of mates who are already finished Commerce in UCD, So I'm a good person to be talking to about this!

First of all, Commerce in UCD is in my opinion the best pure business degree in Ireland. If you have your heart set on HRM, general Management, Finance, Banking etc, DO COMMERCE. Its that simple. It's not that the lecturers or quality of education is any different from Trinity (infact Trinity has an exceptional Business school with great contacts for future careers) its purely that in Commerce, you will just be doing business, nothing else. So if that is what you want, go for it.

BUT

If you are anything like I was when I was filling in that CAO, I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do... I had to points to do whatever I wanted, but I didn't know what I wanted! Solution? BESS! BESS is the best course in Ireland if you have no idea what to do in college. It is perfect for this because it allows you experience a number of subject in your freshman years, and then specialize in what you prefer for your senior years (Thats why BESS is 4 years and not 3)

In BESS you can come out with a Bussiness, Politics, Sociology or Economics combined degree, or just plain business if you choose. I have really enjoyed the course because it has given me a really good base knowledge of each of those subjects, and I have know gone on to specialize in my favourite areas. Trinity and BESS in my opinion give you a better all around education than Commerce because it is not forcing you into one way of thinking.

But as I said, if you really know where you are going, do Commerce as it will better suit your personality. I you came to college to study business, you'll probably get bored and annoyed at the other irrelivant subjects. But if you want a broader more "real life" education, do BESS.

Two other things: The quality of education between the UCD and Trinity Business schools is negligable. You will get similar career oportunites from both Uni's, dont let anyone else tell you different. That said, I know it sounds snobby, but its actually true to say it looks more impressive to have Trinity on your CV than UCD... when employers are sifting through CV's, Trinity always stands out weather you like it or not.

Also, dont be influenced by CAO points, they mean NOTHING! Course points are purely about supply and demand, not the quality of the course. Just because one course is 540 and the other is 420 does not mean one is better than the other.

Any other questions give me a holla! I'm quite bored at work and willing to help!

manicmonoliths · 06-08-2008 9:11pm

Just did first year BESS

Business - 2 hour lecture or 1 hour tutorial
Economics - 2/3 hour long lectures a week + 1 tutorial
Maths and Stats - 3 lecture + 1 tutorial
Politics - 2 lectures + the odd tutorial, think there were about 8 over the year.
Sociology - 2 lectures + 1 tutorial every second week
Then the options are all different, Law and French are 2 hours a week, I think German is 3, Spannish is 5.

As far as I know Commerce is 3 years because it's pure business focused from the beginning (I'm not sure about that though!), wheras BESS brings in more Economics, Sociology, Politics and languages. You wouldn't be able to specialise completely in Business unitl 3rd year in BESS. Like someone above said, BESS and Commerce aren't interchangable.

If you're looking to do Economics it's VERY maths heavy. And in BESS in second year if you want to continue studying Business you have to do Accounting. Although I'm sure there's Accounting in Commerce too...

Stabshauptmann · 13-08-2008 11:15am

irishpacker wrote: »

That said, I know it sounds snobby, but its actually true to say it looks more impressive to have Trinity on your CV than UCD... when employers are sifting through CV's, Trinity always stands out weather you like it or not.

I agree with most of your post. I always said BESS was more academic and Commerce more practical, a bit what you're saying.

On the point though of TCD standing out on your CV, in general you might very well be right, but it does depend on the job. If you apply for a finance job having "Commerce - Banking and Finance mode" will stand out more than "I went to Trinity".

And like you said, it might be seen as snobbery, and there are as many anti-snobs out there as snobs. In my interview for my current job the interviewer and I had a good laugh about the MA in trinity and how he was throwing any CV with it in the bin. Nothing against TCD students, but the MA isnt a masters and claiming it is can just annoy some employers.

The quality of education between the UCD and Trinity Business schools is negligable.

True. Both UCD and TCD have some top class lecturers, however dont underestimate the benefit of small classes, more continuous assessment and use of technology that you find in the Quinn School of Business in UCD.

Stabshauptmann · 13-08-2008 11:25am

manicmonoliths wrote: »

As far as I know Commerce is 3 years because it's pure business focused from the beginning (I'm not sure about that though!)
...

And in BESS in second year if you want to continue studying Business you have to do Accounting. Although I'm sure there's Accounting in Commerce too...

In years one and two of Commerce you do a variety of "business" subjects.
As well as the obvious core disciplines you study presentation and communication skills, organisational behaviour (pop psychology) and socio-economics (homelessness, bribery etc).

You also pick electives from any course in UCD at all as part of the horizons programme.

In your final stage you specialise into a specific area. This is what imo makes Commerce better than BESS or Business and Legal. If you want to be an accountant it shaves a year off your exams, if you want to work in Finance it puts you in a position to do practical work from day one.

On the accounting note, its unavoidable for years 1 and 2 and optional for year three.

Full Commerce syllabus available here:
https://sisweb.ucd.ie/usis/w_sm_web_inf_simple_viewer.show_programme?p_code=dn015

damnyanks · 13-08-2008 3:12pm

If you think graduating in 3 years instead of 4 years is a good thing you are nuts.

Either course is fine and frankly wont make a difference once you come out of it. The best thing about college is that you can talk your way into classes (i.e get them onto your degree classification) if you really want.

Stabshauptmann · 13-08-2008 3:59pm

When I was in 2nd year I never wanted to leave college, when I was in 3rd I was happy to leave and now that Im working Im not sure I could ever go back. There are things in life you will out grow, though some people like change more than others

Tricity Bendix · 13-08-2008 9:27pm

manicmonoliths wrote: »

Just did first year BESS...

...If you're looking to do Economics it's VERY maths heavy.

Although I'm not calling in to question the validity of the above, I am interested in how you could describe Economics as mathsy after just one year studying it. I didn't notice economics getting mathsy until third year. Unless you count maths and stats, but you have to do that if you plan to do Business as well.

I know I started off with a fairly unimpressive level of maths in first year, and zaraba started from an even lower level, and the two of us managed to do very well for ourselves in single honours economics.

damnyanks · 13-08-2008 9:39pm

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

When I was in 2nd year I never wanted to leave college, when I was in 3rd I was happy to leave and now that Im working Im not sure I could ever go back. There are things in life you will out grow, though some people like change more than others

Yes but once its over its over and you never have that opportunity to go back to it. You can start working anytime. You now have 40 more years to enjoy working life.

14-08-2008 8:46am

manicmonoliths wrote: »

Just did first year BESS

Business - 2 hour lecture or 1 hour tutorial
Economics - 2/3 hour long lectures a week + 1 tutorial
Maths and Stats - 3 lecture + 1 tutorial
Politics - 2 lectures + the odd tutorial, think there were about 8 over the year.
Sociology - 2 lectures + 1 tutorial every second week
Then the options are all different, Law and French are 2 hours a week, I think German is 3, Spannish is 5.

As far as I know Commerce is 3 years because it's pure business focused from the beginning (I'm not sure about that though!), wheras BESS brings in more Economics, Sociology, Politics and languages. You wouldn't be able to specialise completely in Business unitl 3rd year in BESS. Like someone above said, BESS and Commerce aren't interchangable.

If you're looking to do Economics it's VERY maths heavy. And in BESS in second year if you want to continue studying Business you have to do Accounting. Although I'm sure there's Accounting in Commerce too...

Eh - you are wrong there. BESS is not mathsy in first year at all, nor in second year even as there are still people who are there in Politics / Sociology who don't need quants skills but want a crash course in statistics (forms the basis of research methods). Economics gets Mathsy in third and fourth year.

Commerce is a three year course because most arts subjects are three years in UCD (and most other universities) In the case of BESS, TCD tacks on the broad first year, you really only start learning your subjects of choice in second year but you will have exposure to others which IMHO is a good thing.

A BBs from Trinity won't disadvantage you in terms of getting work in Finance, its the class of degree which counts. You can go in with a first in Philosophy and you will have a better chance then someone with a 2.1 in Business.

I would also recommend doing the maths courses as far as you can - you will be able to learn the softer subjects on the job (and you will be taught them) but having a solid quants foundation will stand to you a lot more then 'Economics of Human Resources' or whatnot. Depends on your work but most banks will prize quant skills quite highly.

Stabshauptmann · 14-08-2008 9:23am

Deleted User wrote: »

Commerce is a three year course because most arts subjects are three years in UCD (and most other universities) In the case of BESS, TCD tacks on the broad first year, you really only start learning your subjects of choice in second year but you will have exposure to others which IMHO is a good thing.

Wow there nelly, Commerce is not arts, you get a BComm at the end not a BA and it is very different. There are many courses in UCD with longer lenghts than 3 years. Commerce is 3 years because it fits into 3 years.

Commerce is "broad" for 2 years, only 3rd year is specialised.

14-08-2008 10:03am

Science degrees are four years, in general (apart from Trinity) most business degrees on the continent are three years. BESS is really a three year course with an extra year of introduction courses (introduction to different courses in different schools)

manicmonoliths · 14-08-2008 12:32pm

b.ie curious wrote: »

Although I'm not calling in to question the validity of the above, I am interested in how you could describe Economics as mathsy after just one year studying it. I didn't notice economics getting mathsy until third year. Unless you count maths and stats, but you have to do that if you plan to do Business as well.

I know I started off with a fairly unimpressive level of maths in first year, and zaraba started from an even lower level, and the two of us managed to do very well for ourselves in single honours economics.

Deleted User wrote: »

Eh - you are wrong there. BESS is not mathsy in first year at all, nor in second year even as there are still people who are there in Politics / Sociology who don't need quants skills but want a crash course in statistics (forms the basis of research methods). Economics gets Mathsy in third and fourth year.

Sorry what I meant to say was that Economics gets very maths heavy in later years, I was talking about Economics as an overall subject not just the 1st year stuff. The 1st year maths course is quite do-able even if you've done OL for the leaving.

quicklickpaddy · 13-08-2009 1:25pm

What about the social side of each college? Would I have as good of a time in Trinity as opposed to UCD? I'm fairly torn between the two degrees but I have BESS first on my CAO... But I just got 5points less than it was last year so I still could get either. Just curious to see what people think about the social side of it?

abbevilleson · 11-03-2012 12:35am

Am finding it so hard 2 decide between the 2 courses!! :P

I really like the BComm Intl and would choose between French and Chinese once I get in... But I've heard a major turnoff is the way the language and business elements aren't linked AT ALL!! I don't think I'd like the Literature modules!! Also, there are one or two top links for Study Abroad like the ESCN in France so would it be really hard 2 get these top places??? Then again, when it comes 2 Chinese.... UCD has great links in China.

With Commerce, Ive heard the accountancy part is really good but I'm also really interested in Marketing and technology. So is commerce more geared 4 wanna be accountants?? :P

When it comes to BBL, I'm worried with the lack of a language option. I would really like to do a language for future employment prospects and that.... Also I want 2 do law because it's a great base degree and would be great general knowledge. It would offer a lot of prospects in terms of study abroad and internships. However, Ultimately, my interest is in business (for the minute) and I want 2 work in major companies like google, PayPal!!

I really wanna go international in my career and have been looking in2 Trinity cause even though the business department is t gr8, it has brilliant international links and does offer a language in 1st and 2nd year of Law and Business!! The points are crazy at 555.... So was looking a BESS 2 ... But once again... The business department isnt the best and BESS is very broad and art-sy!! :P

Soo confused... If anyone could shed some light on the situation id b so grateful... CAO change of mind is closing in!! I really wanna get involved in all things student life and have a gr8 time in college so really wanna make the right choice!!

THANKS!!

NeuroCat · 11-03-2012 4:35am

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Wow there nelly, Commerce is not arts, you get a BComm at the end not a BA and it is very different. There are many courses in UCD with longer lenghts than 3 years. Commerce is 3 years because it fits into 3 years.

Commerce is "broad" for 2 years, only 3rd year is specialised.

I'm doing a degree in Biochemistry in TCD and I'll end up with a B.A in the end. The degree classification rarely matters in most cases in comparison to the actual degree itself.

BlueCam · 11-03-2012 7:08pm

abbevilleson wrote: »

Am finding it so hard 2 decide between the 2 courses!! :P

I really like the BComm Intl and would choose between French and Chinese once I get in... But I've heard a major turnoff is the way the language and business elements aren't linked AT ALL!! I don't think I'd like the Literature modules!! Also, there are one or two top links for Study Abroad like the ESCN in France so would it be really hard 2 get these top places??? Then again, when it comes 2 Chinese.... UCD has great links in China.

With Commerce, Ive heard the accountancy part is really good but I'm also really interested in Marketing and technology. So is commerce more geared 4 wanna be accountants?? :P

When it comes to BBL, I'm worried with the lack of a language option. I would really like to do a language for future employment prospects and that.... Also I want 2 do law because it's a great base degree and would be great general knowledge. It would offer a lot of prospects in terms of study abroad and internships. However, Ultimately, my interest is in business (for the minute) and I want 2 work in major companies like google, PayPal!!

I really wanna go international in my career and have been looking in2 Trinity cause even though the business department is t gr8, it has brilliant international links and does offer a language in 1st and 2nd year of Law and Business!! The points are crazy at 555.... So was looking a BESS 2 ... But once again... The business department isnt the best and BESS is very broad and art-sy!! :P

Soo confused... If anyone could shed some light on the situation id b so grateful... CAO change of mind is closing in!! I really wanna get involved in all things student life and have a gr8 time in college so really wanna make the right choice!!

THANKS!!

First of all, please don't write in txt spk, it's disgusting to read.

Secondly, if you don't think you would have the points for Law and Business then I recommend BESS. The Trinity Business School is very highly ranked, I don't know where you got the opposite impression from. Within BESS, you can study French for two years then go on Erasmus to France in your third year. TCD has links to the top three French business schools (HEC, ESSEC, ESCP) along with a few others (Strasbourg, Rouen). This is what I did (specialising in Business and Economics - BESS is only as "artsy" as you make it), and I can speak French more fluently than anyone I know who did Business and French. Plus you avoid the stupid literature they have to do, and I have the advantage of choosing whatever subjects I like in fourth year whereas they're forced to choose half of their modules from French.

Major companies like the ones you mentioned are looking for people who can speak languages in a practical context - not who can quote the most Jean-Paul Sartre.

abbevilleson · 12-03-2012 6:22pm

Thanks!!

Is it really difficult to get the places in top top Business Schools like HEC/ ESCP?? I'm kinda worried ill be lost amongst the massive crowd in BESS!!

I'd hope to do Business and Economics too but I was wondering what the course is like in terms of ICT/MIS/Technology modules as these would be useful for jobs in ICT/Business/French sector e.g Paypal??

I've heard there is a major empthasis on end of year exams in BESS and not so much on continued assessment e.g. Presentations/ Projects. Is this true??

Thanks for your help!!

BlueCam · 13-03-2012 11:28am

abbevilleson wrote: »

Thanks!!

Is it really difficult to get the places in top top Business Schools like HEC/ ESCP?? I'm kinda worried ill be lost amongst the massive crowd in BESS!!

I'd hope to do Business and Economics too but I was wondering what the course is like in terms of ICT/MIS/Technology modules as these would be useful for jobs in ICT/Business/French sector e.g Paypal??

I've heard there is a major empthasis on end of year exams in BESS and not so much on continued assessment e.g. Presentations/ Projects. Is this true??

Thanks for your help!!

It's not extremely difficult, if you're averaging a 2.1 then you have a good shot. There were four of us at HEC last year, another four at ESCP, and only one at ESSEC if I recall correctly - they didn't even fill all the places for that one.

There are no ICT/technology modules in BESS. To be honest, if you're really interested in technology then you should look at MSISS. I don't know why you're so fixated on Paypal, it's just an internet payments system, there are many more dynamic tech companies out there. Unless you specifically want to work in a tech role at a company (e.g. programming) or in tech consulting (e.g. Accenture) then it's not necessary at all to have done ICT modules. If you want to work in a business/finance role, then they're completely unnecessary. If you're considering Commerce just because you can do ICT, you should bear in mind that you would never be able to compete against someone who's done MSISS for four years.

It's true that BESS is mainly focussed on end-of-year exams, though this depends on the subject.

It seems to me that you want to do Business/Economics but think that you need to have done ICT modules to get a job. You don't. However, if you are genuinely interested in technology as a career (and I don't mean just working in a tech company, I mean actually doing tech work), then you should consider MSISS as it's effectively half business and half computer science.

ezekial · 16-05-2012 2:11am

I know I started off with a fairly unimpressive level of maths in first year, and zaraba started from an even lower level, and the two of us managed to do very well for ourselves in single honours economics.[/Quote]

I'm just finished second year bess and can't decide whether or not to go for straight economics as ive heard that both econometrics and mathematical economics are both quite hard.

Found them both ok ish in second year...

And a lot of people are saying that economic analyisis is rough??

Would love to hear your opinion,
Cheers

blucey · 16-05-2012 8:33pm

abbevilleson wrote: »

Am finding it so hard 2 decide between the 2 courses!! :P

I really like the BComm Intl and would choose between French and Chinese once I get in... But I've heard a major turnoff is the way the language and business elements aren't linked AT ALL!! I don't think I'd like the Literature modules!! Also, there are one or two top links for Study Abroad like the ESCN in France so would it be really hard 2 get these top places??? Then again, when it comes 2 Chinese.... UCD has great links in China.

With Commerce, Ive heard the accountancy part is really good but I'm also really interested in Marketing and technology. So is commerce more geared 4 wanna be accountants?? :P

When it comes to BBL, I'm worried with the lack of a language option. I would really like to do a language for future employment prospects and that.... Also I want 2 do law because it's a great base degree and would be great general knowledge. It would offer a lot of prospects in terms of study abroad and internships. However, Ultimately, my interest is in business (for the minute) and I want 2 work in major companies like google, PayPal!!

I really wanna go international in my career and have been looking in2 Trinity cause even though the business department is t gr8, it has brilliant international links and does offer a language in 1st and 2nd year of Law and Business!! The points are crazy at 555.... So was looking a BESS 2 ... But once again... The business department isnt the best and BESS is very broad and art-sy!! :P

Soo confused... If anyone could shed some light on the situation id b so grateful... CAO change of mind is closing in!! I really wanna get involved in all things student life and have a gr8 time in college so really wanna make the right choice!!

THANKS!!

speaking and writing in coherent english is a good start

Beyond that its almost wholly irrelevant what degree you do so long as you
a) do well in it
b) do something to make yourself stand out from the crowd
c) get some relevant experience in summers.
But the whole "can communicate in a coherent manner" is a good start

abbevilleson · 06-07-2012 4:19pm

I was wondering what the BESS students would say in regards how a BESS degree stands up against the Commerce Intl in UCD.

I realize Trinity has brilliant links abroad in 3rd year, especially french business schools in Paris and also has an excellent economics department, but it seems to me UCD has a greater emphasis on MIS/ICT. Also the option to study Chinese is interesting as it seems an important language for an international business career.

Unquestionably, Smurfit Graduate Business School is excellent and well-accredited, I would hope to do a masters there after either undergraduate degree in Business Analytics or International Business or Digital Marketing.

Bilgrim · 25-06-2013 4:13pm

Anyone have any experience with Economics & Finance in UCD?

I'm wondering how BESS measures up in comparison with this course, what the work load is like, the type of maths that is involved, any experiences at all with eco & fin would be greatly appreciated!

I have a fear the eco & fin is highly steered towards banking & retail banking in particular, it seems anyone I have spoken to has done that. I wouldn't mind that, but I'd like to know that there's a scope for wider career possibilities.

whoopsadaisy · 25-06-2013 9:01pm

I'm starting college in 2014 and giving serious thought to BESS... I've been looking into Business courses for a while now because I do really enjoy Business, but I've been looking at all sorts of different courses as well. I love the variety option in BESS, it seems to suit me down right to a T, and I don't mind the large group... If anything the common entry gives me some sort of confidence haha.

What's worrying me is the rep of the place - is it as bad as people say?? The snobby/elitist reputation it has is seriously off-putting, I could not be dealing with the Ross O'Carroll-Kelly types whatsoever! Any feedback I'd love to hear!

dazzy123 · 06-08-2013 8:45pm

whoopsadaisy wrote: »

I'm starting college in 2014 and giving serious thought to BESS... I've been looking into Business courses for a while now because I do really enjoy Business, but I've been looking at all sorts of different courses as well. I love the variety option in BESS, it seems to suit me down right to a T, and I don't mind the large group... If anything the common entry gives me some sort of confidence haha.

What's worrying me is the rep of the place - is it as bad as people say?? The snobby/elitist reputation it has is seriously off-putting, I could not be dealing with the Ross O'Carroll-Kelly types whatsoever! Any feedback I'd love to hear!

Im starting college in 2015 and I'm the exact same and was turned off after first hearing about the reputation! but after thinking about it I realised that with how big that course is its not possible for EVERYONE to be as snobby as they say. even if there are snobby people there's enough people in the course that you could avoid them I'm sure

Anita Blow · 06-08-2013 9:15pm

Anybody who parrots those stereotypes is an idiot who clearly doesn't know anyone in the college. And if they do know someone in the college & are basing their opinion off that, then it says a lot more about them and their group of friends than it does about the student body.

lauramarie13 · 08-12-2013 11:31am

Hi

What will my French level be like if I do BESS, study French in 1st & 2nd year and do the year abroad in a French-speaking university in my 3rd year? Will I be fluent/ have a high level of understanding? Like would I be able to say on my CV that I speak French? Thanks!

EuropeanSon · 18-12-2013 1:35am

whoopsadaisy wrote: »

I'm starting college in 2014 and giving serious thought to BESS... I've been looking into Business courses for a while now because I do really enjoy Business, but I've been looking at all sorts of different courses as well. I love the variety option in BESS, it seems to suit me down right to a T, and I don't mind the large group... If anything the common entry gives me some sort of confidence haha.

What's worrying me is the rep of the place - is it as bad as people say?? The snobby/elitist reputation it has is seriously off-putting, I could not be dealing with the Ross O'Carroll-Kelly types whatsoever! Any feedback I'd love to hear!

I think there are far more of those in UCD than in Trinity, though there are some here too, of course.

BESS vs Commerce

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