Disappointed with Big 4 pay review

SilverChair · 27-09-2008 3:21pm #1

Hey all you fellow accountants,
as the thread title says, Im unhappy with my pay review. I started in a big 4 last September as a trainee accountant (straight out of college) and was expecting to go up to about €30,000 approx this year. That's around what people went up to last year.

Thing is I'm only going up hald what I expected, to the mid mid 20s. What I'm wondering about is whether there has been an overall decline in salaries across the board?

edit: The first option on the poll should read <25k

crapmanjoe · 27-09-2008 8:51pm

I'm in a similar boat myself, going in2 year 2 in big 4 audit dept, due to find out what our salary is going to be the coming year on Wednesday (back dated till 1st Aug)

I'd find out what your peers are on and see how they compare - it could be performance related (not saying your not good at ur job - obviously since i have no clue who you are)

Does that include exam bonus etc?

Hanley · 27-09-2008 10:08pm

Well considering I start my first year on 24.5k next month, I'd say it's a big crap alright. How much of an increase did you actually get?

And exam bonuses... do people get those??? That'd be awesome.

Ideo · 28-09-2008 7:39pm

Silverchair, are you waiting on repeat results by any chance? I know people in a BIG 4 who are and they only went up several hundred until their results are out. Big change in BIG attitudes to pay rises alright, compared to previous years. Would this be the reason?

Odats · 28-09-2008 8:53pm

Lads consider yourselves lucky with the money your on at the moment. Try going into your 3rd year starting FAE's after passing Prof 2 and 3 first go and say for arguments sake what Hanley is starting on I'm on alot less. I know I'm at the other end of the spectrum but I'd consider my salary reasonable enough and my objective is to get the magic letters after the name then let the dosh roll in.
Remember you should be proud to work for one of the Big4 not every body gets the opportunity like you have.
It's alot more expensive for us in small practices with travel (we don't get any allowance for travel and accommodation for attending lectures) have to pay 15% back to employers for course fees and on smaller pay packets.

Imagine if you had to work one month on our wages and then you'd be grateful of your salary.

BTW If you didn't pass your exams then you don't deserve the same increase as those who do. That's common sense.

thejoker_1986 · 04-10-2008 12:19am

You should have done a masters, start on over 25k....!! can't wait for the first pay day

But as was already pointed out, your pay will be based on your exams results and performance at work, so these could be the reason...also...recession..!!!????

Failed Salesman · 05-10-2008 4:31pm

Hanley wrote: »

And exam bonuses... do people get those??? That'd be awesome.

Depends on the firm, I know my one does. They're not counted as part of the salary however, as they're at the firms discretion.

Back on topic, everyone I know who trains in the Big 4 have been disappointed - I know I was. The firms are starting to cut costs though, with the recession happening, there are with rumours about that busy season next year and the year after won't be quiet as busy as usual.

bored and tired · 11-10-2008 5:28pm

i just saw this and was uterly shocked, i started out over 8 years ago now, and my salary was £100.00 per week, 9-5 monday - friday, that was the going rate, trust me i asked around and was regardless of having gone to college or studying professional or technician exams.
we were supposed to sign a contract which tied a lot of my friends down and meant that they couldnt apply for a salary based on minimum wage when that came in about 2years later.
25k+, starting and i presume college didnt teach ye how to do a bank rec,

has the world gone to pot or is it ive just realised im getting old :mad: but at least i know how to grow potatoes so i'll survive the oncoming recession:D

Running Bing · 11-10-2008 6:17pm

bored and tired wrote: »

i just saw this and was uterly shocked, i started out over 8 years ago now, and my salary was £100.00 per week, 9-5 monday - friday, that was the going rate, trust me i asked around and was regardless of having gone to college or studying professional or technician exams.

So are we comparing like for like? i.e. a college grad at a big 4 firm in their second year was earning £100 a week in 2000?

25k+, starting and i presume college didnt teach ye how to do a bank rec,

No college doesnt teach most people how to do a bank rec but it teaches people important skills that employers value and acts as a gurantee that the person in question can work under their own initiative, can apply themselves and is capable of studying and passing exams (a necessary part of qualifying as an accountant)

Avoiding Work · 13-10-2008 12:15pm

Hey,

I don't work in a BIG 4 but I am AMAZED at your salaries... How do you guys live?? I thought BIG 4's were the way to go, and I also thought I was unhappy with my salary :eek:

For the original poster, can you just confirm, have you got a degree already? How far into the professional exams are you? How many years experience?

Sorry, I dont mean to be nosy I'm just SHOCKED to hear that the salary is so crappy in a BIG 4 company. I'm in the IFSC have 3 years exp in accounts and have only started the exams in August and I am hitting the 30's + bens. I'm not boasting (and I didn't think it was anything worth boasting about considering how hard I work for it as I'm sure ya all do!!), I just wonder why the BIG 4 are apparently so fantastic to work for when the pay is so dire...

... Or am I the only one for whom it all comes down to cold hard cash for

the1andonly1 · 13-10-2008 7:17pm

well the pay in the big 4 might not be great, but when you qualify it goes up a fair whack. Plus they pay you for about 3 months off each year to study for exams, on top of regular annual leave....so its not that bad!!

The_Hustler · 13-10-2008 7:21pm

I think it goes up quite quickly. I'm starting on 26k but I have a masters. I'm hoping this recession isn't going to affect my future pay increases.

Hanley · 13-10-2008 8:53pm

Avoiding Work wrote: »

Hey,

I don't work in a BIG 4 but I am AMAZED at your salaries... How do you guys live?? I thought BIG 4's were the way to go, and I also thought I was unhappy with my salary :eek:

For the original poster, can you just confirm, have you got a degree already? How far into the professional exams are you? How many years experience?

Sorry, I dont mean to be nosy I'm just SHOCKED to hear that the salary is so crappy in a BIG 4 company. I'm in the IFSC have 3 years exp in accounts and have only started the exams in August and I am hitting the 30's + bens. I'm not boasting (and I didn't think it was anything worth boasting about considering how hard I work for it as I'm sure ya all do!!), I just wonder why the BIG 4 are apparently so fantastic to work for when the pay is so dire...

... Or am I the only one for whom it all comes down to cold hard cash for

You've 3 years experience tho.... The guys in the top 4-6 on 24-25k are there starting off with NO experience. Tbh, if I do as well as I hope in my exams, I'd be very disappointed if I'm not close to 30k this time next year.

Cyrus · 16-10-2008 5:29pm

Avoiding Work wrote: »

Hey,

I don't work in a BIG 4 but I am AMAZED at your salaries... How do you guys live?? I thought BIG 4's were the way to go, and I also thought I was unhappy with my salary :eek:

For the original poster, can you just confirm, have you got a degree already? How far into the professional exams are you? How many years experience?

Sorry, I dont mean to be nosy I'm just SHOCKED to hear that the salary is so crappy in a BIG 4 company. I'm in the IFSC have 3 years exp in accounts and have only started the exams in August and I am hitting the 30's + bens. I'm not boasting (and I didn't think it was anything worth boasting about considering how hard I work for it as I'm sure ya all do!!), I just wonder why the BIG 4 are apparently so fantastic to work for when the pay is so dire...

... Or am I the only one for whom it all comes down to cold hard cash for

In 3 years in a big 4 assuming you pass exams its 50+.

At the OP it all depends on your exams and what level you are at, generally the decent money doesnt start until you pass your FAE's

Avoiding Work · 16-10-2008 5:44pm

I have only started studying now but I will be in the 50+ mark by the time I pass. Just for sitting the first two I will be in mid 30s.
I'm not trying to be smart / offend anyone, I am genuinely surprised about all the hype a Big 4 gets yet they mainly take on people from college, then you must complete the exams before getting decent money?! I know the study leave is great but Jesus someone leaving college with a degree and willing to study accountancy exams would get twice as much in financial services.
I just struggle to see why people go to the Big 4's when they can get so much more €€€'s and the same benefits outside, its not as though your average 20-25yr old is looking to stay in the one job for life... by the time you start earning decent cash you'll want out!!

Well I would anyway, I get sick looking at the same faces after a few years

Running Bing · 16-10-2008 8:10pm

Avoiding Work wrote: »

I just struggle to see why people go to the Big 4's when they can get so much more €€€'s and the same benefits outside,

Because they have a more long term outlook on things?

Avoiding Work wrote: »

its not as though your average 20-25yr old is looking to stay in the one job for life... by the time you start earning decent cash you'll want out!!

Well I would anyway, I get sick looking at the same faces after a few years

BINGO...You have basically answered your own Q there.

Im not trying to be smart either, I get your posing a genuine question but its just a different outlook on things. Money is not the most important thing and certainly at this stage of my career I feel there are far more important considerations than a few grand here and there. People dont go Big4 for the money (I know I certainly did not) and if they did they would likely be as disappointed as you!

Kinetic^ · 16-10-2008 9:26pm

Practice = low pay, good experience and good study package.

Industry = good pay, average experience and not so good study package.

It's not about money starting out, it's about experience and passing exams, both of which you need to go places in this industry.

charba · 16-10-2008 10:20pm

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Practice = low pay, good experience and good study package.

Industry = good pay, average experience and not so good study package.

It's not about money starting out, it's about experience and passing exams, both of which you need to go places in this industry.

Thats not true in all cases.
I work in industry, I've two years experience and I'm mid thirtys pay wise, and I have been told I am in line for a large pay rise in the coming weeks.

The experience I am getting is invaluable. I am treated as a qualified accountant in my company and do all the same work if not more than the actually qualified person. I am doing everything from basic purchase ledger/ sales ledger to pulling together the quarterly accounts and also getting the figures together for my group accounts to give to our audit company.
Where as I know someone who has just finished their FAE's and they don't know as much work as I do and they have been working for 3 years.

Hanley · 16-10-2008 11:23pm

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Practice = low pay, good experience and good study package.

Industry = good pay, average experience and not so good study package.

It's not about money starting out, it's about experience and passing exams, both of which you need to go places in this industry.

Exactly. And lets face it, 25-50k for a 21-26 year old is MORE than enough to just about get by on

:D

FWIW, I don't know where I'll go after I finish my training contract, I imagine I'll stay in practice for a couple of years and get some experience at a managerial level and hopefully pull in around 80k 2-3 year PQE. Sound realistic?

Failed Salesman · 16-10-2008 11:23pm

Avoiding Work wrote: »

I have only started studying now but I will be in the 50+ mark by the time I pass. Just for sitting the first two I will be in mid 30s.

Big 4 seniors can expect 60 if they switch between big 4 firms once they qualify. You get paid in the mid thirties once you get passed your second year, whether you do Prof 3 (or CAP 2 as it's now known) or FAEs, same as yourself.

I'm not trying to be smart / offend anyone, I am genuinely surprised about all the hype a Big 4 gets yet they mainly take on people from college, then you must complete the exams before getting decent money?! I know the study leave is great but Jesus someone leaving college with a degree and willing to study accountancy exams would get twice as much in financial services.

That is true, but then it's no different than people studying professional exams in other areas. How much do trainee solicitors working for a law firm get paid when they first start out?

I just struggle to see why people go to the Big 4's when they can get so much more €€€'s and the same benefits outside, its not as though your average 20-25yr old is looking to stay in the one job for life... by the time you start earning decent cash you'll want out!!

Heh, you think the salaries for the big 4 are bad, you should see the salaries people get paid in smaller practices. Don't know how some of them live tbh.

Kinetic^ · 17-10-2008 12:33am

charba wrote: »

Thats not true in all cases.
I work in industry, I've two years experience and I'm mid thirtys pay wise, and I have been told I am in line for a large pay rise in the coming weeks.

The experience I am getting is invaluable. I am treated as a qualified accountant in my company and do all the same work if not more than the actually qualified person. I am doing everything from basic purchase ledger/ sales ledger to pulling together the quarterly accounts and also getting the figures together for my group accounts to give to our audit company.
Where as I know someone who has just finished their FAE's and they don't know as much work as I do and they have been working for 3 years.

Study package?

You don't mention anything like tax compliance (Form 11/12/CT1), company secretarial or any client facing work. You're in a single (if you're lucky 1 or 2 more) industry where in 3 years I would've come across 50+.

I see myself as a processing monkey while working in industry rather then a part qualified accountant. Operating debtor & creditor ledgers is a doddle and processing is 99% of the task. Sure I have to assign creditors invoices to a nominal code but after 1 month you should know where everything goes but you'll be doing the same thing for another 2 years, maybe more, so you're not learning anything from something that takes up a lot of your time. Same with bank reconciliation's. From my experience in industry, there's probably about 5/6 days a month when you're actually doing accountant type stuff like going down through the TB to make sure everything is in order or making sure your margin is where it should be and if it's not, then why not?

I've worked in industry and practice (circa 3 years in each) so I have an idea of how both areas operate. I'm not saying that don't work in industry or anything of the sort but there will be aspects of accountancy that will be absent while training there. However you will study these aspects in theory through college. I'm in industry now and it's where I'll stay for life but I value my time in practice even though I hated it.

To the person in shock of starting money, I was on €13k back in 2001 when I started in practice.

I'm sure there's plenty more around here who were on half of that!

Newaglish · 17-10-2008 5:02am

@Avoiding work - you're on 30k after three years whereas Big 4 trainees start on 25k and would have surpassed the 30k mark within 12 months. (The same would probably hold true for mid-tier firms also)

I don't understand how you see this as a bad thing for the Big 4

scheister · 17-10-2008 10:59am

the pay seems bad for some1 with a degree but after all i wud rather be in a job and getting something then be signing on the dole. think about it they are paying for you to do ur exams aswell i think the package might seem bad but over all in the cc it is not something to moan about. Sure i remember when my sister was doing ur prof 1 i think (note it was outside the big 4) at the time i was an early morning paper boy and on the same amount as her so but since she got he FAE's her pay has shot up to around 50 r 60 k

Avoiding Work · 17-10-2008 11:15am

Newaglish wrote: »

@Avoiding work - you're on 30k after three years whereas Big 4 trainees start on 25k and would have surpassed the 30k mark within 12 months. (The same would probably hold true for mid-tier firms also)

I don't understand how you see this as a bad thing for the Big 4

I'm on 30k having left school three years ago. Someone in a Big 4 will be on 30k having finished school, spent 3-4 years in college and a year in training. That's why I see it as a bad thing.

Again, I dont want people to think I'm slating them here, fair play as someone previously pointed out that they are thinking more long term, I'm obviously more shallow

I just thought from all the hype about Big 4 that you guys would be earning mega bucks from the off & was WONDERING (as opposed to mocking!) what was so good about them.

And now I know... months of study leave compared to my feeble three days per exam... I feel so hard done by

Cyrus · 17-10-2008 11:33am

you can also leave school and go straight into a big 4

altho why anyone would pass up on college is beyond me

also its a prestige thing, being big 4 qualified lends a certain weight to a cv

Stabshauptmann · 17-10-2008 11:39am

I think for the past 4 or 5 years the Big 4 pay scale was very static.

Start 24K, pass exams 29K, pass exams 36K, pass exams 48k.

I remember from my first year in college these are the figures ppl passed around, and when I started its the buzz I got from those around me.

Now my pay review is due and Im nervous. All this talk of recession and ministers taking pay cuts, can I expect the same type of increase that people got in previous years?

Badboy21 · 21-10-2008 2:58pm

Hi i work in the hoighest paid big four company

I started last october and i was on 23k now im on 30k 2nd year ( 4.5k fae fee's and 7 weeks paid study leave 500 euro * 7 weeks = 3,500) In essence if you do the maths.... the whole package for second year is actually about 38k

after my faes i should be on 43 k maybe more.....

After you qualify the average salary jumps to 55 k

Newaglish · 23-10-2008 9:19am

Badboy21 wrote: »

Hi i work in the hoighest paid big four company

I started last october and i was on 23k now im on 30k 2nd year ( 4.5k fae fee's and 7 weeks paid study leave 500 euro * 7 weeks = 3,500) In essence if you do the maths.... the whole package for second year is actually about 38k

after my faes i should be on 43 k maybe more.....

After you qualify the average salary jumps to 55 k

Which one is the 'hoighest' paid?

Theboinkmaster · 23-10-2008 6:58pm

Hanley wrote: »

Exactly. And lets face it, 25-50k for a 21-26 year old is MORE than enough to just about get by on :D

FWIW, I don't know where I'll go after I finish my training contract, I imagine I'll stay in practice for a couple of years and get some experience at a managerial level and hopefully pull in around 80k 2-3 year PQE. Sound realistic?

That's a mistake - if you're going to move to industry it's best to do it before you hit manager level. As once you're at manager level and earning €80k you'll find it hard to move to industry at that salary level. To go to a financial a/c you'd have to take a €20k pay cut. I know plenty of people who stayed as managers in big 4 for 1/2 years and are then competing with newly quals for jobs - therefore wasting the 1/2 years and taking a big pay cut to go into industry

Running Bing · 23-10-2008 7:47pm

Badboy21 wrote: »

Hi i work in the hoighest paid big four company

I started last october and i was on 23k now im on 30k 2nd year ( 4.5k fae fee's and 7 weeks paid study leave 500 euro * 7 weeks = 3,500) In essence if you do the maths.... the whole package for second year is actually about 38k

after my faes i should be on 43 k maybe more.....

After you qualify the average salary jumps to 55 k

Thats a good way of looking at it.

I didnt know the fees were that much:eek:

ninty9er · 28-10-2008 12:49am

I've friends working in large enough (lets say Big 8) practices outside Dublin who aren't even making minimum wage at graduation.

Count €20k very lucky!

Disappointed with Big 4 pay review

What should a 2nd year accountant earn 53 votes

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