Police Self Defence?

In answer to your question I've done a fair bit of martial arts (but absolutely NO policing!) but I imagine the ones of most benefit would be something along the lines of Judo or Ju-Jitsu as they deal a lot with more close quearters stuff like grappling, locks, throws etc. Krav Magda was developed by the Israeli Army for unarmed combat so I don't know how appropriate it would be for policing, a lot of the other martial arts too use strikes and kicks intended to cause maximum damage which might not be what you want - I don't know how the average judge would take hearing how you repeatedly roundhouse kicked poor johnny in the head because he had no tax or insurance!!:D

deadwood wrote: »

Remember, the vast majority of the population, no matter where they live, won't stand for a guard getting a hiding.

Just wanted to pick up on this as "Joe Public" myself. I have to admit that I would be very very cautious in getting involved in coming to anybodys aid these days given the fear that I'd get arrested too particularly if the scumbag socially deprived person decided to press charges against me, not saying I'd just stand back but it would definitely make me think twice. Sad but true

Dave I'm a big believer in reading as much as I can on the topic of officer safety (officer survival in the US) and on operational tactics. There is too little tactical stuff taught in training in comparison to the States in my view. Its worth reading up on as even the basics can vastly raise your odds against getting a kicking, getting stabbed or even shot.

Martial arts are useful, but equally so is being fit enough to defend yourself and being conversant with, and confident in, your officer safety techniques and kit. However, training school officer safety programs are now more about appearing to be pink and fluffy rather than teaching trainees how to survive when the sh1t hits the fan, hence why it pays to do your homework. With this in mind I wouldn't worry about styles like Krav Maga 'not being suitable for policing'; if you're using it its because circumstances necessitate using it, so you won't be fretting too much about what the code says when someone is trying to smash your face in and in any event your use of force provided proportionate, is always justifiable.

As an example of basic officer safety/survival tactics have a look at the below article I found on officer.com. Simple stuff that gets forgotten (or even dropped of the training agenda in some jurisdictions due to budget trimming and pink&fluffiness).

If you want the names of a few good books on the topic drop me a PM.

Safely Handling Suspicious Person Stops
Strategies for dealing with suspicious persons

Kevin Davis
Tactical Survival Contributor

There the subjects stand: on a block in which you've had numerous calls and arrests for drugs, thefts, gang activity, you name it. Your job is to safely approach and interact with these subjects. If they are guilty of a crime your job is to find it out and make arrests. If it's nothing more than completing F.I. cards for documentation, at least you'll now know who they are and they'll know you're keeping an eye on them.

Checking out suspicious people on foot and in cars is a bread and butter part of police work. We do it everyday but sometimes our regular calls can become routine and routine kills. Law enforcement officers are killed and assaulted each year when investigating suspicious (around 11% for both categories in calendar year 2006 the last year for which full statistics are available) persons. Do it wrong and you can become a statistic; do it right each and every time and you'll substantially reduce the risk.

One Officer Stops

I won't say that if you are alone you should never approach a suspicious person. For many officers this is simply the way business is done. You must understand, however, that it can be very dangerous to do so. So, prior to approaching if at all possible, surveil the subject and the area. Ask yourself if - based on the subject's apparent actions, size, sex, bystanders present and environment - this is something that you can safely do? If not, wait for backup or do not initiate the stop. Realistically your attention will be focused on the subject and may open you up to attack by unseen suspects. If the suspect resists lawful detention or arrest you're on your own until backup arrives. If reasonable articulable suspicion exists to detain a person you may handcuff the person for officer safety. This cannot be an always thing. You must be able to articulate why your safety was at risk i.e. activity, time of day, location, subject actions etc. and like all use of force it must be objectively reasonable in light of the totality of the circumstances. If probable cause exists to make an arrest, handcuff first then search.

Subterfuge

When I worked street narcotics while in uniform my partners and I would frequently have to approach and identify suspects that our undercover officers or informants had just made narcotics purchases from, for later arrest as the case progressed. Oftentimes we used a feint such as canvassing the area looking for a lost little girl. After describing the little girl and asking if they had seen her, we would then ask for I.D. so that we could, "document who we talked to." A little bit of BSing can go a long way to allay suspect's fears giving us an edge. When you're interested in narcotic activity do you really want to ask, "You guys aren't out here slingin' dope are you?" Sometimes we cannot hide our intentions but other times a little subterfuge works well.

Read Body Language

Read the suspect's body language looking for early warning signs of a potential attack such as failure to follow commands or ignoring your presence; exaggerated movement; physical crowding; or looking around for an escape route, your back-up or his back-up. Suspects assume pre-attack postures subconsciously. Pre-attack postures include: assuming some type of boxer stance; raising the hands above the waist; shifting the shoulders; and grooming gestures.

As suspects subconsciously react to the effects of fight or flight, they may pump their hands, blood may drain from their face or their head may tilt back. Failure to read body language and a suspect's preparation to flee or attack may result in you being assaulted before you can respond.

Distance Equals Time

The Reactionary Gap is a concept based on the rule that distance equals time. The gap or distance you stay away from a suspect provides time for you to respond. At touching distance a suspect can assault you before you can react and respond. Based on this response time deficit it is recommended that you maintain at least six feet from the suspect. As you close the gap to an offender to frisk or handcuff you must do so anticipating resistance and with your hands up ready to respond.

Contact / Cover

Developed by the San Diego Police Department after two of their officers were shot and killed while checking out suspicious suspects in a park, contact / cover is a lifesaver. One officer is designated as contact and takes care of the business of the call (interviews, frisks, handcuffs, talks on the radio, etc.). The cover officer positions himself to protect the contact officer from the suspect and third parties and is prepared to use force if necessary. My agency has used this concept for a number of years and it is a very strong tool while checking out persons and vehicles.

Look at the Whole Picture

Suspects will frequently hide contraband such as drugs or weapons off their bodies but close to them. Rock Crack Cocaine can be hidden in a discarded potato chip bag that looks like trash nearby. A pistol can be hidden behind a wall next to the suspect. Suspects will pay attention to the way you do things and if your searching is sloppy or neglects areas nearby or on their person such as the groin or anal cleft, you can bet that's where they'll be hiding their weapons or dope.

I can remember when another officer prior to a tour of duty was searching under his rear patrol vehicle seat and found a butcher knife and an eight ball of Crack. Although this necessitated that he tag it into evidence (making more work for him) the officers that used the car in a prior shift could have been stabbed when they placed their armed suspect in the seat behind them. How many times have deputies at the local jail found contraband or weapons your street officers missed?

Watch their hands. Look for bulges in a suspect's waistband or the clips of knives in pockets. Don't just casually look but rather look for weapons or items that could be used for weapons against you.

Conduct these actions as if your life depended on them. Why? Because it does.

Do It Right Every Time

Have a plan of action. Talk to your partner or shift mates about standard operating procedures and tactics for handling suspicious person stops. Use sound methods and tactics such as Contact / Cover to dominate suspects and reduce the likelihood of attack against you. Always approach a suspect(s) with your head in the game and mindful that life is a live-fire 360 degree environment. The mental edge coupled with sound tactics can and will foil assaults against you as you check out people that are engaging in criminal or suspicious activity.

From the time your feet hit the street to make your initial approach to the point you're driving away - be mentally prepared and ready to handle any resistance or action that may come your way.

Source

I think martial arts tend to furnish some with a dangerous false sense of security.

Having studied ju-jitsu some time back, some of it has been useful in policing, however no more so than what's taught in basic officer safety.

I personally am not a believer in the 'size doesn't matter' school of thought when it comes to fighting and fisticuffs. The bigger and heavier you are, the more muscle you have, makes it easier for you to arrest, or harder for those trying to arrest you, point in case; I've had a number of dealings with a nasty piece of work on my old borough who was a very large jamaican lad, who worked as an enforcer for an organised crime figure, and dealt crack on the side....as well as habitually using the drug himself. When he'd be locked up he'd spend his time inside on 'roids and using weights and would come out f*cking huge, making it twice as difficult for us to arrest him. Ordinarily he was a nightmare to arrest, and would then continue to be violent in custody, violent in court and even violent in prison (when not doing roids or pumping iron of course). He could not be left with a single officer for fear of said officer being seriously injured or killed, and more often than not shield teams would have to get him into and out of his cell, with a lot of effort.

Regardless of how handy you are, or how 'well trained' you cosinder yourself, an individual like this is a very dangerous person to deal with even with numbers and b*llocks if a black belt would make him any less so. However now we have Taser as a tactical option, which has taken the wind out of his sails on a number of occasions, so I'd rather have that than all the styles in the world if its all the same.

I'm biased, but I think krav maga is great for members of the gardai.

The local five-oh send a lot of their officers to classes run by our instructor, and there's a few police and army guys in our regular classes.

They reckon it's pretty useful. It's not all crushing windpipes and testicles. There's a lof of takedowns and weapon defences, too.

I agree with Mairt, too, that judo would be pretty useful. The throwns and holds would, I imagine, be very useful, especially from a PR point of view.

But anything where you just get used to taking a clatter and not going to **** would be pretty useful.

tallaght01 wrote: »

I'm biased, but I think krav maga is great for members of the gardai.

The local five-oh send a lot of their officers to classes run by our instructor, and there's a few police and army guys in our regular classes.

Oh don't listen to army lads.

There's a myth built up around K.M. in our place, its hilarious really.

IMO K.M. sucks.

metman wrote: »

Suffice to say 12th century jitsu might encounter an issue or two when confronted with 21st century street-fighting, if you take my meaning, and this is not meant with any offence, as an ex-practitioner, its simply a fact.

No offence taken, and I knew earlier that you'd probably tried some traditional JJ. JJ has moved on since then, as has most styles.

Listen, I'm not saying that a smallish lad (and lets me honest our guys over here ain't jacked) with some M.A. training will turn into Robo-Cop overnight, but with proper live training, applied properly the trained cop with a good style behind him can at least expect to level the playing field somewhat.

The only word of warning I would issue is that no gym/Dojo (Martial Arts club training centre) can replicate the violence encountered on the street, there's not a snowballs chance in hell of that happening. But from chatting with the ASG Judo lads they've found Judo training invaluble in contolling a violent person on the street.