Deputies Deasy and Mitchell's comments in the media

dresden8 · 11-11-2008 9:12am #1

Fine Gael are at it again.

Question about trial by jury in connection with the latest murder in Limerick.

First comment by Olivia Mitchell directly connects licensed handgun holders with drug dealers and hit-men in Limerick.

I really, really want an alternative to FF but when FG start coming out with this sort of cr@p what really is left?

They had a chance to go for Garda underfunding, whole urban areas being written off to the scumbags etc. etc. etc., but who do they go for? Us.

FG never saw an open goal that they didn't miss.

At this stage the only people I can vote for are the shinners and the crazy religious people, and I hate them.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1110/qanda_av.html?2447309,null,230

Very start of program.

Jonty · 11-11-2008 9:46am

I'm just sick after listening to it.

Sparks · 11-11-2008 11:38am

The irony of it all is that it was Fine Gael that the NARGC were working with on a proposed Firearms Bill before the last General Election.

But FG regard Deasy as a loose cannon anyway, and as for Mitchell, well, just think back to what happened to the range in Ticknock. Complaints come in from people who were illegally trespassing on Coillte land, and Mitchell backed those complaints until the range was shut down.

José Alaninho · 11-11-2008 11:57am

Gun-control? Fine Gael going back to their blueshirt roots? Sieg Heil and all that... In fairness though, if there's one thing I'm sick of it's all those damn criminals getting licensed handguns for nefarious uses. You'd think they'd just smuggle them in or something and save our gardai all the time and effort...:rolleyes:

Sparks · 11-11-2008 3:21pm

Sent to all the nationals and a fair few of the local papers this morning:

Dear Editor,
In recent weeks, Deputies Deasy and Mitchell and others have engaged in scaremongering on a widespread scale in the media (including this newspaper), saying that there has been a massive rise in the licencing of pistols, and attempting to link this alleged rise to the recent rise in levels of gun crime. As a licenced firearms owner, I wish to offer the following counterpoints:

(*) The number of pistols licenced in Ireland per capita has fallen by 20% since 1971.

(*) Since 1971, our firearms laws have been tightened three times, making ours the most restrictive laws in the EU.

(*) Every single licenced firearm in Ireland is licenced to someone who was personally approved as safe to own and use that firearm by a Garda Superintendent.

(*) Garda Superintendents have exceptionally wide-ranging powers when it comes to granting or refusing licences. They can - and do - require gun safes, home inspections, house alarms, access to medical records, proficiency courses and membership of authorised firearms ranges.

(*) Firearms ranges are also inspected and authorised by the Gardai, to exceptionally high construction and safety standards. Many firearms ranges have spent tens of thousands of euros to come up to the Gardai requirements over the past two years.

(*) While there is a distinct difference in how many pistol licences are granted by different Garda Districts, this is caused by the requirement to be a member of an approved range - more licences are granted in areas closer to approved ranges.

(*) In 2007 the Gardai, the Department of Justice, the Irish Sports Council, the governing bodies of target shooting sports, firearms dealers and other stakeholders, all came together to found the Firearms Consultation Panel under the aegis of the Minister for Justice. This groundbreaking body allows all parties to find safe, efficient, well-informed solutions to the concerns of those who use firearms and those who draft and those who enforce firearms law.

In short, the concerns that Deputies Deasy and Mitchell and others have attempted to raise are not based on facts or statistics or current procedures, and serve no useful function other than to scaremonger in the lead-up to the local elections. This is a shameful act on their part.

Yours in Sport,

fish slapped · 11-11-2008 6:01pm

AAAARGH!!:mad:

meathstevie · 11-11-2008 8:35pm

Folks, I won't even try formulating a reply to this "lady's" waffle.

One little thing though, if she wanted to do something about drug related crime she'd be better of digging into the showjumping circuit where there have been to the best of my knowledge a few scandals related to the illegal use of drugs. At the end of the day the best place to start sweeping is in front of your own door.

fathersymes · 11-11-2008 9:05pm

Olivia Mitchel (Olivia.Mitchell@finegael.ie) needs to be brought to account as to why she evaded the question asked and virtually accused licensed firearms holders to be a threat to public safety.

Relating the murder in Limerick to legally licensed firearms is reprehensible.

I shall be sending her a personal email asking for an explanation to her insinuations.

These ignorant, uneducated and uninformed elected representatives are simply using guns as a scape goat for their inability to administer effectively.

BTW, there must be some shooting people in the ranks of all parties?

meathstevie · 11-11-2008 9:49pm

Imagine the following scene :

Fine Gael canvasser knocking on the door : "We're looking for your vote...blah blah blah"

You : "I don't think so pal, not in a week of sundays"

Canvasser : "Why, if I may ask ?"

You : "Olivia Mitchell puts me on a par with Limerick gangsters and actively campaigns against my sport. That's why."

Canvasser : "Oh"

You : "Oh indeed, go away now and don't bother coming back until your spokespeople can see the difference between me and gangsters."

Multiply the scenario by thousands of licenced firearm owners and Fine Gael has given itself a major kick up the goolies.

In hotly contested elections, what the next ones no doubt are going to be, every vote counts. For people for whom a Garda Superintendent has signed of as deemed safe to own firearms being lumped in with the worst drugged up psychopatic scumbags is offensive and nobody should accept being offended by unknowledgeable stuck up numbskulls who's biggest political achievement is playing the scaremongering card.

Sparks · 11-11-2008 9:55pm

Pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard if you prefer email) and start writing to the national papers and your local papers and the local papers for Deasy and Mitchell.

Hell, if ICABS are allowed complain, so are we...

dbar · 11-11-2008 10:11pm

Email sent to said person!

Our man in Havana · 11-11-2008 11:58pm

And where has Charles Flanagan been during all this. He seems to be very quiet.

G17 · 12-11-2008 12:01am

I'll come out of posting retirement for this one.

Well done to those who have sent an email to a politician or newspaper or are planning to do so in the immediate future.

For f*cks sake do something if you care about your sport. Email your local FG person and ask them to stop this lunacy. We (legal firearms certificate holders) are being classed as the lowest of those low lifes who have no regard for life and law. TWO FG members within a week calling you and me criminals in effect?

Are you just going to give up your sport because of some lazy politicians? "An explosion of gun ownership, gun culture, worrying trend".....all this nonsense!? I don't mind ignorance but I'm really pissed at the insults, how dare they lump me my friends and members of my family in with the murdering gangsters in Limerick or the feuding drug lords in Dublin who take lives on a whim. I shoot pieces of paper.

If we don't let these people know what the facts are they sure won't bother to fish them out. They're using this 'hot topic' to get at the sitting government, I've no problem with opposition but they're doing it at my direct expense and they're doing it with lazy lies.

Email, if you're reading this you have access to a computer, email now, tell them about your sport, tell them you're annoyed at being classed as criminals. Tell them about the FCP so at least they might move on to the next fashionable topic and leave us the f*ck alone to enjoy our sport.

I've emailed FG twice this week to ask what the hell is going on, please do the same. Don't sit on your holes.
Have you got no pride or fight in you?!

If you're not bothered will you just sell your firearms back to a dealer because you're making the numbers look bad for those who give a sh1t about their sport.

Did I mention, I'm angry? :mad:

Our man in Havana · 12-11-2008 12:06am

Just emailed Charles Flanagan. The reply should be interesting.

rrpc · 12-11-2008 12:33am

The NTSA's response is here. It's a bit long hence it's not posted here.

If the link is too slow or doesn't open, you can go to www.targetshootingireland.org and look at the list of documents on the right hand side of the page for "Fine Gael Letter".

Here's a short excerpt:

Having made such public statements on the matter in such a strident fashion, the Fine Gael party is now in the process of painting itself into a corner in relation to crime where the Minister will feel justified in making further prohibitions on firearms licensing without fear of contradiction and may indeed point to such a prohibition as ‘answering opposition demands’ to be tougher on armed crime. In the meantime, a body of sportspeople (both men and women) are being branded as criminals on a daily basis because the equipment they use in their chosen sport is thought by the uninformed to be also used by criminals.

To say that these attacks are sickening is a gross understatement. It is hard to think of a suitable analogy because to equate sport with crime is a leap of imagination only the most perverse could make. It is probably easier to think of the various weapons that have been used in attacks on the person in this country over the last few years and consider the possibility of banning or restricting their use.

These would be variously: Motor vehicles, feet and hands, slash hooks, kitchen knives, hammers, screwdrivers, bottles and drinking glasses. All of these items have been used and their numbers far exceed the numbers of licensed firearms in circulation, are far more easily obtainable and some can cause much more devastating injuries than firearms can.

bunny shooter · 12-11-2008 12:45am

Nice piece of writing there ! will be forwarding link to my local FG deputy.

rrpc · 12-11-2008 12:49am

bunny shooter wrote: »

Nice piece of writing there ! will be forwarding link to my local FG deputy.

Thanks Bunny. Forward the whole damn thing. It's available to download for just that purpose.

They'd never click the link.

bunny shooter · 12-11-2008 1:04am

rrpc wrote: »

Thanks Bunny. Forward the whole damn thing. It's available to download for just that purpose.

They'd never click the link.

Ya I downloaded and attached it to e-mail. Just sent it now. See what he comes back to me with.

Come on lads everyone needs to do this !

les45 · 12-11-2008 9:38am

The IPSA wrote to Deputy Deasy and Deputy Kenny to express our total dsigust at the blunderbuss attempt by their party to associate licensed firearms holders with drug dealers and gansters . As yet we have received no reply from either party .

Red Renard · 12-11-2008 11:30am

John Bowman (putting question from audience member Bill Donald to Olivia Mitchell of Fine Gael)
“After the latest murder of Shane Geoghegan in Limerick, [should we consider trial without jury”
Olivia Mitchell: “Well, em, just thinking about that today and the horror of the whole thing, there was one statistic that I heard just recently, that really shocked me and that was the escalation in the amount of guns in society, licensed handguns held in Ireland. Four years ago it was 300, today it is1700. And I think when you’ve got the proliferation of guns like that you’ll inevitably have things happening you know; people being killed and people being killed by accident, I think that’s inevitable, so that’s something that has to be done.”

"and the horror of the whole thing, there was one statistic that I heard just recently, that really shocked me" *********

This is where I think the usually very aware chairman should have spotted the opportunistic link been made for political reasons by the TD. This was a deliberate linkage that confused the serious nature of the question. The public viewing of Q&A can fairly be expected to believe that licensed legally held pistols have been used in crime or soon will be. "You'll inevitably have things happening you know"

Have sent the usual e-mails of complaint
no replys as ever. It looks more than ever that this is a pr war to be won by the sporting bodies on the fcp making certain that TDs are in possession of the full facts before they go off on one again.

dresden8 · 12-11-2008 1:11pm

I can't believe FG are seriously making me consider voting FF. It's freaking unbelievable

G17 · 12-11-2008 1:20pm

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/over-100-handgun-licences-issued-in-wexford-district-1535782.html

Our man in Havana · 12-11-2008 1:28pm

G17 wrote: »

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/over-100-handgun-licences-issued-in-wexford-district-1535782.html

Reading that is making my blood boil. :mad:

Sparks · 12-11-2008 1:38pm

Well, it wasn't the most horrible article - the Garda seemed straightforward enough about it, licenced handguns and no crime here, it's just target shooters getting another kind of firearm for their sport.
The slant the paper was trying to put on it wasn't fair, but I don't think it worked too well.

dresden8 · 12-11-2008 1:48pm

Bravo to the Gardai on that one I'd say.

G17 · 12-11-2008 2:08pm

Sparks wrote: »

the Garda seemed straightforward enough about it, licenced handguns and no crime here, it's just target shooters getting another kind of firearm for their sport.

We are blessed with many fair, pragmatic and well informed police officers in the area and they are a credit to the force. They often take a genuine interest in your application and are not just number crunching. They ask relevant questions and give useful advice. They often don't tell you what you want to hear though but it's invariably reasonable, on reflection!

fish slapped · 12-11-2008 4:25pm

Had to send an email:

Dear Ms Mitcheal,
I am a thirty something year old with 3 children, a wonderful wife, mortgage, and and car loan. I coach underage rugby and Gaelic football, I do volunteer work locally and I am also a licenced firearm holder. I was deeply hurt and insulted by your remarks on questions and answers where you told the Irish public that I was the equivalent of a drug dealing, murderous criminal simply because I enjoy the sport of target shooting. To say I am utterly disgusted that you could make this comparison and link these lowlifes to the law abiding citizens that give so much back to their local community, would be an understatement. As a licenced firearms holder I wish to inform you of the following points:

(*) The number of pistols licenced in Ireland per capita has fallen by 20% since 1971.

(*) Since 1971, our firearms laws have been tightened three times, making ours the most restrictive laws in the EU.

(*) Every single licenced firearm in Ireland is licenced to someone who was personally approved as safe to own and use that firearm by a Garda Superintendent.

(*) Garda Superintendents have exceptionally wide-ranging powers when it comes to granting or refusing licences. They can - and do - require gun safes, home inspections, house alarms, access to medical records, proficiency courses and membership of authorised firearms ranges.

(*) Firearms ranges are also inspected and authorised by the Gardai, to exceptionally high construction and safety standards. Many firearms ranges have spent tens of thousands of euros to come up to the Gardai requirements over the past two years.

(*) While there is a distinct difference in how many pistol licences are granted by different Garda Districts, this is caused by the requirement to be a member of an approved range - more licences are granted in areas closer to approved ranges.

(*) In 2007 the Gardai, the Department of Justice, the Irish Sports Council, the governing bodies of target shooting sports, firearms dealers and other stakeholders, all came together to found the Firearms Consultation Panel under the aegis of the Minister for Justice. This groundbreaking body allows all parties to find safe, efficient, well-informed solutions to the concerns of those who use firearms and those who draft and those who enforce firearms law.

From and good citizen of this republic,

tiny-nioclas · 12-11-2008 4:37pm

I would personally never vote for the blueshirts anyway but ive a letter drafted and sent into the local paper about the deasy nonsence, they covered a bit about what he said,all very sensationalist, its time to nip this in the bud before the public are made think that theres criminals,hitmen and drug dealers out shooting rabbits and foxes :mad:

fish slapped · 12-11-2008 4:41pm

Thanks Sparks !

Sika_Stalker · 12-11-2008 5:39pm

just watched tv3 news and on it was a piece about guns in limerick
well by god they were trying hard to try and make it out that it was stolen guns that were being used. but they interviewed one of the locals and he said they were coming from spain brand spanking new
how much you can believe is up to you?????

bunny shooter · 12-11-2008 7:18pm

Media and politicans seem hell bent on demonising legitimate shooters :mad:

Take our firearms and leave the criminals alone, typical.

The Gardai know who these criminals are search them, their vehicles and their houses and everyone associated and their vehicles and their houses. The Gardai would get a nice haul I reckon.

No, easier to go after the law abiding. Mandatory sentences and harsher penalties for possession of illegal firearms hasn't persuaded criminals not to use/have illegal firearms. New solution is Willie O' Dea talking to them and getting then to have cease-fires.

We need a government with a pair. Fine Gael done it during the Civil War maybe it's time someone of the calibre of Richard Mulcahy was put in to to the job again.

I'll vote for any party who hounds the criminals, lock 'em up without trial. Or with a trial using Garda intelligence. Tough measures against the quilty are needed not against the innocent !

Tonight I'm gonna e-mail every TD in Leinster house, I have the time and I'm pissed off enough now ! And to those who are sitting back saying sure I don't have a pistol, I'm ok, I am telling you now if they 'ban' pistols what you have will be next in line. So get e-mailing or it WILL be too late.

dimebag249 · 12-11-2008 7:58pm

bunny shooter wrote: »

Media and politicans seem hell bent on demonising legitimate shooters :mad:

Sure why wouldn't they? We're such an easy target. Whatever they say or do, only a couple of legitimate shooters (Sparks' brilliant letters always motivate me to send an angry e-mail) ever fight back. As long as there's no organisation representing all gun-owners in Ireland, we're basically fxxked. Even then there's probably too few of us to make a difference.

I deserve to be flamed for my pessimism, but thus far, nothing has worked. We are better off than we were for years by using the law to our advantage; so they change the law. Attitudes towards the private ownership of firearms have gotten worse, and that's what matters, that's what will decide the fate of our sports.

I had written a much longer rant than this, but censored it to avoid ban hammer.

dimebag249 · 12-11-2008 8:01pm

bunny shooter wrote: »

Tonight I'm gonna e-mail every TD in Leinster house, I have the time and I'm pissed off enough now ! And to those who are sitting back saying sure I don't have a pistol, I'm ok, I am telling you now if they 'ban' pistols what you have will be next in line. So get e-mailing or it WILL be too late.

Thank you, to bunny and to everyone else who wrote to deputies, organisations, papers about this. To everyone who doesn't write, well, you do not deserve the rights you neglect.

meathstevie · 12-11-2008 8:44pm

Message left on the FG website :

"Dear Sir, Mme,

I am a law abiding owner of three licensed firearms and enjoy a good relation with my local Gardai.
To hear one of your public representatives casually lumping me in with the psychopathic scum responsible for the recent murder in Limerick disgusts me.

I hope this was not a deliberate attempt at labeling legal owners of sporting arms as criminals or the source of serious crime. If it was this would be a sad example of great intellectual dishonesty."

meathstevie · 12-11-2008 8:56pm

One positive aspect of the whole situation is the remarks of the Gardai in the Wexford paper mentioned earlier on.
They know we aren't a problem but unfortunatley duty prevents them from saying this publicly in a political debate.
I suppose a few politicians can thank the powers that be that some Gardai can't say what they think about them either.

rrpc · 12-11-2008 10:13pm

Folks

I was telephoned last night by Charlie Flanagan and also received an email from Enda Kenny and Andrew Doyle. I have had a couple of conversations on the telephone with Charlie Flanagan today and he has asked me for a meeting at our earliest convenience.

I will let you know how things transpire.

Thanks. Charlie Flanagan is the Fine Gael spokesman on Justice. I fully understand your position. No statement has issued from the Fine Gael Front Bench about this.

I spoke to Dep Flanagan and asked that he and Dep Deasy attend at a pistol range and actually see just how regulated this sector is.

Hoping he can do so shortly.

Enda Kenny.

I'm quoting this email to let you know that Fine Gael are taking this seriously from the very top. We are sometimes quick to criticise when things go wrong but are often tardy in our praise when things are put right.

tonysopprano · 12-11-2008 10:22pm

Might be something to do with the amount of correspondence that they have recieved from the shooting fraternity (Read voters at next election)

On another note, Sparks, thanks for the link to the NTSA response, and I hope that you don't mind that I used a cut and paste technique with some other personal stuff added to email every FG TD, Senator and councillor.

fish slapped · 12-11-2008 10:34pm

Whats going to come out of it ? an apology as public as the Bu**s**t she spued forth on national TV about US, I think not , but if it makes them think twice about opening their mouth and cutting down the Joe SO on the street , then its all worth it.

Grizzly 45 · 12-11-2008 10:35pm

My epistile.

To John Deasy TD,Enda Kenny TD,Oliva MitchellTD,Charles Flannagan TD,
[Via Email]

Dear Sirs & Madam,
As a loyal FG voter over the last 20 years and supporter.I am regetfully removing any support of mine and my vote from your party in any future elections.

I am taking this step as I find it reprehensible statements made by Mrs Mitchell in a Questions and Answers RTE programe last Monday [10/11/2008] in relation to a murder of a fellow Limerick man by criminals.
In this Mrs Mitchell managed to brand in the public eye the most law abiding people in Ireland[gunowners] as potential criminals or as a contributory problem to Irelands murder rate.

I have been shooting since I was 16 years of age [Mr Noonan TD will verify this,if he remembers me from his teaching days in the Cresent,Dooradoyle].I have never associated with any of the criminals that infest Limerick,have no intention do do so ,or any desire to.

However to be branded by three of your colleuges[Mitchell,Flannagan,Deasy] along with many hundreds of law abideing gun owners as a potential threat to the public saftey in the national press and TV media,to gain cheap publicity to show that your party is"doing somthing"or "will do" somthing by jumping on the "ban guns" bandwagon,is the uttermost low of gutter politics that I and many others gun owners can imagine.

How any of these people can consider anyone who has been vetted by their Garda Superintendant to his complete satisfaction,[as he will be held responsible]is no threat to public saftey,has a good reason in the Superintendants eyes to posses a firearm ,is a public danger in their misinformed eyes is sickening in the least.It is bad enough having to jump thru hoops and loops od adding extra security to ones house,backround checks etc.And then to have this shoved in ones face that because a ligitimately owned sporting impliment makes the owner suddenly a danger to all and sundry is discrimination at best. Do your party TDs also consider car owners,golf players,gardners and cooks a public danger???Considering they own impliments that have killed more people in Ireland every year than firearms,maybe they should!!

If this gun banning idea is taking root in FG.Please dont bother sending any canditates to any Irish gunowners doors.We will not be in a very recpetive mood to politicians who vilify us as some sort of public threat or potential criminals!

We are SICK and TIRED of being the easy target for the ills of society by criminals!!!If you want to sort this crime problem,may I suggest you study some history on how the UK police forces broke up the notorious East London crime gangs of the Kray Brothers,etc.They would make this current lot look like boy scouts!

If it is any consolation,I will not vote for any TD ,Senator or Councillor,who espouses anti private gun ownership in public,not just the FG party.It doesn't matter anymore to us wether a TD is not our local constituency,we are now taking the line,what they say in public is the party's view in the long run.

If you feel that this is just a few cranks who don't count.May I suggest you read boards.ie shooting section to see the resentment your party is building in the gun ownership community.Not to mention the IPSA and NARGC memberships.

If you think you can do without our votes in the next local and national elections,fine too.But do remember We are Irish gunowners and we VOTE!
Sincerely
Name& addy supplied.

rrpc · 12-11-2008 10:48pm

fish slapped wrote: »

Whats going to come out of it ? an apology as public as the Bu**s**t she spued forth on national TV about US, I think not , but if it makes them think twice about opening their mouth and cutting down the Joe SO on the street , then its all worth it.

I don't see the point of apologies. It's far more important that the full facts are known and that the people responsible for enacting legislation do so with a full deck of cards.

Every setback should be seen as an opportunity to move yourself forward, not put yourself back where you were.

Sparks · 13-11-2008 8:57am

From the Irish Times letters page today:

Handgun licences and crime rates

*

Madam, - A report in your edition of November 7th points out that more pistol licences are granted outside major population centres than inside them. This is not surprising. Pistol licences are more numerous outside cities because there are no firing ranges in the cities and you need access to a range to get a licence. Target shooters have been highlighting this fact for years.

Your report adds that Fine Gael TD John Deasy was "concerned at the number of handguns now in circulation at a time when gun crime and the murder rate was climbing". It might be worth pointing out that there is no record of legally held handguns being used in crime since their reintroduction several years ago. In fact, since a ban on handguns was introduced in the UK gun crime has increased by over 500 per cent.

Mr Deasy says: "We shouldn't be liberalising procedures around gun licences when the murder rate is climbing. That just doesn't add up. I lived in the United States and know the damage they have caused there." In the US the it is possible to license a firearm for self-defence. That is not the case here. In Ireland handgun licenses are only issued for target use on approved ranges. There has not been a single murder case in which a legally held handgun was used.

If we want to compare firearms laws and gun crime rates with those in other countries, why not look at Norway and Switzerland? Both have more firearms than people and both have lower gun crime rates than Ireland. I am not suggesting that their lower crime rates are due to their higher number of firearms; I am saying that there is no connection between the two.

Your report says that "the total number of firearms licences issued, for all gun types, reached 233,934 in the 12-month period to July 31st last. This figure has grown steadily from 215,856 in 2004." These figures are distorted because legally our definition of a firearm is different to that in most countries. We license low-powered air guns that do not require a licence in the rest of Europe or in the US. Even so, we have fewer firearms per head than most countries in Europe. - Yours, etc,

kerryman12 · 13-11-2008 9:55am

Guys

I am equally annoyed/frustrated at this stage. Find below a letter on the way to FG HQ with copies to Mr Deasy and Ms Mitchell.

REgards
Dear Sir/Madam

I feel compelled to write to you following the recent comments of your colleagues, Deputy’s John Deasy and Olivia Mitchell in relation to handgun licences.
I do not own a handgun; however I have a small number of licensed firearms.

Mr Deasy’s comment recently in the Irish times, I feel were very ill informed. To deal directly with his assertions on the inconsistencies of licences issues in different Garda districts. Perhaps the deputy should consider that this is due to the higher number of licensed shooting ranges in a particular area – Wexford in this case. To deal with the general assertion as to the overall increase, the actual number of pistol licences has dropped by 1/5 in the last 30 years. In relation to the increase in the last few years perhaps he should consider that we are coming from a situation of a complete ban – implemented with the support of gun owners at the time.

Ms Olivia Mitchell comments on questions and answers last Monday evening I found personally insulting. The way in which Ms Mitchell lumped me in with the mindless criminals currently on the rampage in Limerick shows a very thoughtless and ill informed view point. Does Ms Mitchell believe that criminal elements in Limerick spend between 3 and 6 months going through the application procedure, meeting with the firearms office of the local Gardai and finally approval by the local Garda superintendent like law abiding licence holders. Why can a differentiation not be made in this regard

Can you tell if the opinions put forward by these deputies represent party policy? If so it is incredibly ill informed!
Gun law in Ireland is quite strict, each application for each licence must go in front of a Garda superintendent for approval – and rightly so. Guidelines in relation to secure storage, disassembly, home security can be inspected at any time by the Gardai. As a licensed firearms holder I understand that it is a privilege and not a right to hold a licensed firearm. As a member of the general public I feel reassured that the licensing of firearms in this country is strictly controlled. Surely you will appreciate that firearms being used by criminal elements are not licensed! These firearms are being brought into the country illegally. Perhaps if FG could spend more time trying to resolve this issue, then we would all live in a better country. I fail to see how lumping law abiding citizens, such as my self in with criminal elements can help to solve our current problems. Unfortunately it appears to me that these points are designed to score political points from the government rather than solve issues facing this country. This type of negative politics add’s nothing of value to the debate. Is to much to expect that our deputies should at least be informed of all the fact before making public comment? By all means have a debate on this subject, but do the voters the curtsy of it being a informed debate!

Finally let me say that on one point I do agree with the comments of the deputies. The law in regard to the licensing of firearms is very dispersed and in real need of a radical overall. Licensed firearms owners have been making this point for years, and I believe that we have nothing to fear from that; provided that the law is framed in a fair/balanced and informed manner.

Yours truly,

ranger4 · 13-11-2008 10:40am

Sika_Stalker wrote: »

just watched tv3 news and on it was a piece about guns in limerick
well by god they were trying hard to try and make it out that it was stolen guns that were being used. but they interviewed one of the locals and he said they were coming from spain brand spanking new
how much you can believe is up to you?????

Its about time the likes of FG Labour and all the rest of the Hiyinas of politics stop their ****ty point scoring on the backs of the murderd, pensioners, etc etc, Its about time proper sentances for murder are introduced e.g if they woint execuite thease scum at least send them down for a min of 40+years with absolutly no rimmision etc, build the prisions needed and this would also have a p[ositive effect with creating badly needed jobs in the construction sector, Im sick to death with thease stupid so called Leaders who havent a clue whats needed to put a stop to thease gangs, A PROPER ****ING DETERENT.

Sparks · 13-11-2008 10:42am

Eh, did nobody read the bit above posted by rrpc, on how Enda Kenny has told Mitchell and Deasy to go and physically visit a pistol range and learn what the blank they're talking about?

CJhaughey · 13-11-2008 10:59am

ranger4 wrote: »

Its about time the likes of FG Labour and all the rest of the Hiyinas of politics stop their ****ty point scoring on the backs of the murderd, pensioners, etc etc, Its about time proper sentances for murder are introduced e.g if they woint execuite thease scum at least send them down for a min of 40+years with absolutly no rimmision etc, build the prisions needed and this would also have a p[ositive effect with creating badly needed jobs in the construction sector, Im sick to death with thease stupid so called Leaders who havent a clue whats needed to put a stop to thease gangs, A PROPER ****ING DETERENT.

This won't happen as long as you have a Judiciary who are very keen to assert their independence.

Our man in Havana · 13-11-2008 11:15am

CJhaughey wrote: »

This won't happen as long as you have a Judiciary who are very keen to assert their independence.

Indeed. The government can't interfere in their work.

Grizzly 45 · 13-11-2008 12:11pm

Damn! Got a mail undeliverd on three of the emails.Anyone got a current email addresses forthe afore mentioned people?Oirechtas and finegael.ie were the returned addys I used.
TIA

Indeed an impartial judicary is a cornerstone of democracy.However I somtimes wonder is our judicary somtimes afraid to hand down tougher sentences because of the chance of threats to their well being and security too??? After all they are human too and subject to all the ills and fears that affect us all.

rrpc · 13-11-2008 12:28pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed an impartial judicary is a cornerstone of democracy.However I somtimes wonder is our judicary somtimes afraid to hand down tougher sentences because of the chance of threats to their well being and security too??? After all they are human too and subject to all the ills and fears that affect us all.

I think that's a dangerous statement to make, and does us and the judiciary no credit.

I believe that the judiciary suffer from the same problem that we do and that's ignorance from the wider media.

If you believe that the media can be completely ignorant of the law relating to firearms, do you really believe that they all suddenly become legal experts where the criminal justice system is concerned?

I don't. I think that ill-informed journalists find it easier (quelle surprise) to ignore the actual facts of a case in their never ending hunt for a headline.

Edit: I believe that the current trend of 'dumbing down' the news has had the unfortunate but inevitable consequence of collateral damage to the intellects of those providing it.

Vegeta · 13-11-2008 12:33pm

Sparks wrote: »

Eh, did nobody read the bit above posted by rrpc, on how Enda Kenny has told Mitchell and Deasy to go and physically visit a pistol range and learn what the blank they're talking about?

I genuinely hope anyone here who is involved in the running of a range has sent them an invite and show them just how responsible we are.

Enda has opened the gate folks, send your invites. Got a competition coming up, well send them an invite, how better to show them why we do what we do.

Sparks · 13-11-2008 12:43pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed an impartial judicary is a cornerstone of democracy.However I somtimes wonder is our judicary somtimes afraid to hand down tougher sentences because of the chance of threats to their well being and security too??? After all they are human too and subject to all the ills and fears that affect us all.

How about we not go incredibly far off-topic and keep to only the shooting-related political stuff? There's the Politics forum for discussion of more general political matters.

dresden8 · 13-11-2008 1:10pm

RTE news today, Garda Commissioner at PAC giving out about that super uber weapon, the Glock.

And yes, we're officially all hit-men now. I think we should form a cartel and not under-cut each other on price.

I'll post a link when I find it.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Deputies Deasy and Mitchell's comments in the media

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