Galway Docks Development

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 1:57pm #1

As the other thread was going off topic, i've started a new thread...

From the newspaper: http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/green-light-for-docks-development/

Here's a proper plan: (Didn't IMG link as it's a big image)
http://www.galway.net/GalwayNet/img/orig/506.jpg

This will give you an idea of the proposed plan:

galwayrush · 14-12-2008 2:02pm

Exciting.:cool:
The plan also includes an area from Ceannt Station towards the sea to include a new city centre area of approx 114 acres.:cool:
I am very in favour of this as it gives a potential medium rise modern area while maintaining the old city centre in it's traditional charachter.

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 2:07pm

It'd be great, Galway would finally get a marina too (Hopefully they'd install a 2nd lock gate so that boats would have 24/7 access)

galwayrush · 14-12-2008 2:09pm

JohnCleary wrote: »

It'd be great, Galway would finally get a marina too (Hopefully they'd install a 2nd lock gate so that boats would have 24/7 access)

I remember reading that the existing docks would be turned into a Marina.:cool: Almost seems like a mini Marseilles:cool:

skelliser · 14-12-2008 2:13pm

didnt realise how long the causeway would be, it must be nearly 1k, this is class!

whats the timeframe like?

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 2:14pm

galwayrush wrote: »

I remember reading that the existing docks would be turned into a Marina.:cool: Almost seems like a mini Marseilles:cool:

While it's great that they installed some finger pontoons at the Docks with shore power and water, it's still a pain in the hole. I can only enter/exit 2 hours before high tide (until high tide, then the gates close). Queue the many days I return to shore at 11PM, tide isint until 3-4am, I have to tie up at the commercial docks (Beside the RNLI station/Aran Island boat) and just sit there killing time (Afraid to go to sleep incase I sleep through the alarm)

Pain in the hole altogether, marina would be deadlyyyyy

KevR · 14-12-2008 2:16pm

Can't wait to see those Topaz oil tanks gone from beside the docks.

As Skelliser said, anyone know what sort of timeframe we're looking at?

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 2:17pm

skelliser wrote: »

didnt realise how long the causeway would be, this is class!

whats the timeframe like?

Up to 10 years to completion I read somewhere, but can't find the link, sorry. I think the Volvo Ocean Race has given this the push start it needs, in the sense that small amounts are going to take place (in comparison to the re-development) over the next few months, so after that (pending funding of course) they may continue with works... So hopefully it'll get the ball rolling

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 2:18pm

KevR wrote: »

Can't wait to see those Topaz oil tanks gone from beside the docks.

They'll be gone anyhow, you can bet on that! They're already working on it, laying new pipes from where the tankers moor at the Docks, out to where the new tanks will be beyond the Galway Harbour Enterprise Park

KevR · 14-12-2008 2:31pm

JohnCleary wrote: »

They'll be gone anyhow, you can bet on that! They're already working on it, laying new pipes from where the tankers moor at the Docks, out to where the new tanks will be beyond the Galway Harbour Enterprise Park

Where abouts is the Galway Harbour Enterprise Park? Is it near the docks? Can't place it.

citycentre · 14-12-2008 2:33pm

I wouldnt be quite so enthusiastic about elements of this plan. Basically all of the reclaimed land shown on the diagram would be earmarked as "Galway Harbour". This does not mean exciting, city type developments - that'll be limited to the CIE and Harbour Company lands marked in pink and purple above. No, the vision for the reclaimed land is for more industrial sheds, scrapheaps, oil tanks, dockland pariphenalia such as cranes, stacks of containers etc. etc. Basically the view from the Claddagh, South Park and anywhere in the city centre that is currently the Clare hills across the bay will become a view of an industrial landscape. One equivalent would be the view from Clontarf strand across to East Wall in Dublin. It ain't pretty.
On balance while I recognize the need for Galway Port to expand to become viable and to free up the docks as the amenity they should be, I think that this plan could backfire and destroy one of the very things that makes Galway a desirable place - ie. it's visual relationship to the Bay. I personally believe that re-location would be a better option. Where to is a WHOLE other question!

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 2:39pm

KevR wrote: »

Where abouts is the Galway Harbour Enterprise Park? Is it near the docks? Can't place it.

See the pic above? Well, everything ABOVE the brown "reclaimed land" and BELOW the red CIE train line is the Enterprise Park. Pat Rynn, Cold Chon, Bow Waves and a few others are there at the moment

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 2:44pm

BTH wrote: »

I wouldnt be quite so enthusiastic about elements of this plan. Basically all of the reclaimed land shown on the diagram would be earmarked as "Galway Harbour". This does not mean exciting, city type developments - that'll be limited to the CIE and Harbour Company lands marked in pink and purple above. No, the vision for the reclaimed land is for more industrial sheds, scrapheaps, oil tanks, dockland pariphenalia such as cranes, stacks of containers etc. etc. Basically the view from the Claddagh, South Park and anywhere in the city centre that is currently the Clare hills across the bay will become a view of an industrial landscape. One equivalent would be the view from Clontarf strand across to East Wall in Dublin. It ain't pretty.
On balance while I recognize the need for Galway Port to expand to become viable and to free up the docks as the amenity they should be, I think that this plan could backfire and destroy one of the very things that makes Galway a desirable place - ie. it's visual relationship to the Bay. I personally believe that re-location would be a better option. Where to is a WHOLE other question!

In fairness, 'Docklans' isin't exactly supposed to be a recreational area! That word to me defines one thing: Commercial and Industrial activity

Yes there'll be cranes etc. but it will NOT affect the view of the Clare Hills from the City Centre. If you get an OS map and draw a line from anywhere in the city close to the water, while you may be able to see the cranes etc. it will NOT affect the Clare Hills view. It will however affect the view of the Marine Institute (Is that even a view??), but as a Line-Of-Sight, it won't affect the view of the Clare Hills, starting at Kinvara area. If you don't believe me on this, go down to Southpark/Docks/Claddagh and look out at Hare Island, now look a little to the right, that'll be the end of the reclaimed land, and it'll be before the start of the Clare Hills. The *ONLY* place that it'll affect the view, is from the Enterprise Park itself, some of the view of the very East part of the Hills may be interfered with, but lets be frank, you're not going down to the Enterprise Park for the view

As regards to the view from Salthill/Prom/Grattan area, to look at the Clare Hills, you'll be looking in a totally different direction (I know you didn't mention these areas, just putting it out there)

galwayrush · 14-12-2008 2:48pm

Another very positive result of the developement will be the fact that the reclaimed land will bring the harbour out as far as waters deep enough to cater for large Liners.:cool:

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 2:52pm

galwayrush wrote: »

Another very positive result of the developement will be the fact that the reclaimed land will bring the harbour out as far as waters deep enough to cater for large Liners.:cool:

Yup, the Development can only be a good thing for Galway. The reason a lot of Liners don't stop in Galway is because of the hassle... mooring over 1 mile out, having to use their launch boats to lug people to the shore, then landing them onto a smelly steps at the RNLI station - disaster!

citycentre · 14-12-2008 3:34pm

Whether it blocks certain views or not there's no doubt that developing a new docklands in this way will have a truly massive visual impact on certain areas of the city - particularly the very areas that will be freed up for development by the move (the CIE and Harbour lands on the map above). Imagine the view from Wolf Tone Bridge for example. Well over half the horizon will be taken up by the aforementioned cranes, containers, scrapheaps etc. I think the negatives outweigh the positives on this one although it's a close call.

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 3:47pm

BTH wrote: »

Whether it blocks certain views or not there's no doubt that developing a new docklands in this way will have a truly massive visual impact on certain areas of the city - particularly the very areas that will be freed up for development by the move (the CIE and Harbour lands on the map above). Imagine the view from Wolf Tone Bridge for example. Well over half the horizon will be taken up by the aforementioned cranes, containers, scrapheaps etc. I think the negatives outweigh the positives on this one although it's a close call.

Negatives:
We'll see a few cranes

Positives:
More jobs in Galway
Free movement of ships
Oil tanks moved even further away from city centre
Increased tourism
Increased marine activity
Increased spending due to increased tourism & marine activity
Increased revenue due to taxes (ie. VAT) which need to be paid for the use of marine berths in the Docks. Also increased revenue for Liners landing here etc.

Yeah, close call alright :pac: You're living in Cuckoo land buddy. I was against the re-development of The Long Walk years ago, but i've learned to live with it and it's improved the look of the place. As I said the Docklands are generally a commercial and industrial area. ATM the Docks looks scummy imho. This redevelopment will improve the looks of the place dramaticly

At the moment, the area close to the proposed reclaimed land looks like a dead-zone, looks like the place you'd take a body to bury it. I, for one welcome development of the Docklands of Galway

You could make the same argument that Mutton Island looks shoite (no pun intended) since they built the causeway. Infact, it does take away from the scenery, but fcuk me pink, it was needed. So is a re-development of the Docklands

If you were to argue, on a political/realistic front that the positives/negatives of a redevelopment are a 'close call' and your only argument is that a crane may slightly impede your view, you'd be laughed out of the board-room

-Edit- Just to add, you say that the views of the freed up areas will be seriously impacted upon... Do you think CIE are going to turn their now 'free space' into a Childrens Park or something? Get real, they'll continue to use their space for commercial use... and as I said before, the staff are hardly there for the view of the Clare Hills, and the public definately won't be able to access the area. Your argument is the equivalent of a blind man objecting to a house being built accross the road from him as it'll block his view :pac:

Also, you do realise there'll be quite a distance between the likes of Wolfe Tone bridge and this redevelopment.... If you think these cranes will take up half the horizon, you're having a laugh. For them to take up half the Horizon from the Wolfe Tone Bridge, they'd have to be located at the Spanish Arch :pac:

One final thing, do you think that Galway is the import/export hub of Europe or something? You're going WAY OTT. The way you're going on you'd swear it's going to be a carbon copy of the Dublin Docklands. The West simply doesn't have the economic infrastructure to demand such high traffic

skelliser · 14-12-2008 4:08pm

i have to agree with BTH, this proposal will have a massive visual impact.
If ya look at the map again the view from the wolf-tone will be fairly impacted.

galwayrush · 14-12-2008 4:18pm

Every developement will have a visual impact, even a tree house.:rolleyes:
The dockland developement will be the most positive addition to the Galway region ever.It will bring in massive revenue, it will put Galway on the ocean liners stop over map. The potential is enormous, there is even a part of the plan set aside for recreation / parklands, within minutes walk of the city centre. A concert / event venue would be another possibility.

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 4:25pm

Ah, as has already been said today, people will object to anything

*EVERY* building will have a visual impact on something/someone/somewhere. Jeez, if we all thought like some people on this forum we'd be all be living in man-made huts

Evolution guys, deal with it. Anyhow, visual impact is one thing that will definately NOT effect the going ahead of this re-development, it's too crucial to our economy so ye can whinge about the view as much as ye want

Sponge Bob · 14-12-2008 4:27pm

This plan is lunacy and is gross overkill for Galway IMO as is the proposed industrial reclamation .

We should move most of the oil tanks to Oranmore where there is plenty of industrial zoned land and where they belong IMO.

I would do it thusly with the bulk of it hidden behind Mutton Island , all we bring in is OIL and a bit of coal and fertilizer and then some scrap goes out .

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 4:28pm

skelliser wrote: »

i have to agree with BTH, this proposal will have a massive visual impact.
If ya look at the map again the view from the wolf-tone will be fairly impacted.

You do realise it's not a sky scraper going up at the end of the reclaimed land, right?

From Wolfe Tone bridge, it'll be nothing more than a big wall coming out of the water with probably no more than 2 cranes (which won't even be that tall) and a few boats? I wouldn't even include the boat's in your argument, as they add to the scenery imho

galwayrush · 14-12-2008 4:30pm

JohnCleary wrote: »

*EVERY* building will have a visual impact on something/someone/somewhere. Jeez, if we all thought like some people on this forum we'd be all be living in man-made huts

Sadly, that is the thinking of our serial Objectors in Galway.

A lot of time, effort and money has gone into this project already,even the provision of catering for any wildlife / marine life has been looked into. I hope it starts as soon as possible.

skelliser · 14-12-2008 4:31pm

JohnCleary wrote: »

Ah, as has already been said today, people will object to anything

*EVERY* building will have a visual impact on something/someone/somewhere. Jeez, if we all thought like some people on this forum we'd be all be living in man-made huts

Evolution guys, deal with it. Anyhow, visual impact is one thing that will definately NOT effect the going ahead of this re-development, it's too crucial to our economy so ye can whinge about the view as much as ye want

i never said i was against it, in fact im for it
but you cant deny it will have a massive visual affect.

and galwayrush comparing this, the biggest construction project in the history of the city, to a treehouse is laughable!!?:rolleyes::eek:
and im not a "serial objector" :rolleyes:

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 4:33pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

This plan is lunacy and is gross overkill for Galway IMO as is the proposed industrial reclamation .

We should move most of the oil tanks to Oranmore where there is plenty of industrial zoned land and where they belong IMO.

I would do it thusly with the bulk of it hidden behind Mutton Island , all we bring in is OIL and a bit of coal and fertilizer and then some scrap goes out .

The reason theres fcukall marine activity in Galway is because of lack of resources. When building a resource, build what will be needed, and then some, to allow for future development. When building a network, I allow for 100% expansion, not just the current amount of systems in place. I assume the Docklands proposed development is taking on the same lines...

Your image that you propose... May allow 1/2 tankers at a time. What about the Navy? What about cruiseliners? What about trawlers coming in for major repairs? What about the development at Mutton Island... the construction would cause chaos around Claddagh (Wouldn't effect me, but still). Then about about if big machines had to be brought in to build/service/repair the pipes on Mutton island - some craic trying to bring them accross the Wolfe Tone Bridge/Claddagh! Keep the industrial side of things on the EAST of the city imho, just like the trend seems to be

Sponge - Maybe send your drawing into Galway Harbour Company/City Council and see what they have to say about it?

galwayrush · 14-12-2008 4:40pm

skelliser wrote: »

i never said i was against it, in fact im for it
but you cant deny it will have a massive visual affect.

and galwayrush comparing this, the biggest construction project in the history of the city, to a treehouse is laughable!!?:rolleyes::eek:
and im not a "serial objector" :rolleyes:

I merely meant you could describe even a tree house as having a visual impact from certain views.:)

skelliser · 14-12-2008 4:44pm

what kinda cranes would we be talking, baring in mind it will be a deep water port, possible container ships? would they be container cranes?

14-12-2008 4:44pm

Any one have any stats about port capacity in Ireland? A bit of googling didn't produce anything.

It is interesting and I would like to see cruise ships visiting galway.

JohnCleary · 14-12-2008 6:02pm

skelliser wrote: »

what kinda cranes would we be talking, baring in mind it will be a deep water port, possible container ships? would they be container cranes?

There won't be demand in Galway for a large amount of container ships. We might see the odd ship with a few containers, but nothing like Dublin/Cork

Infact I don't even know if the types of cranes for containers would be installed. We don't even know that cranes will be installed - it's just something that someone mentioned here.

Anyone interested/concerned could try contacting Galway Harbour Company and ask I guess

citycentre · 14-12-2008 7:11pm

JohnCleary wrote: »

Negatives:
We'll see a few cranes

Positives:
More jobs in Galway
Free movement of ships
Oil tanks moved even further away from city centre
Increased tourism
Increased marine activity
Increased spending due to increased tourism & marine activity
Increased revenue due to taxes (ie. VAT) which need to be paid for the use of marine berths in the Docks. Also increased revenue for Liners landing here etc.

Yeah, close call alright :pac: You're living in Cuckoo land buddy. I was against the re-development of The Long Walk years ago, but i've learned to live with it and it's improved the look of the place. As I said the Docklands are generally a commercial and industrial area. ATM the Docks looks scummy imho. This redevelopment will improve the looks of the place dramaticly

At the moment, the area close to the proposed reclaimed land looks like a dead-zone, looks like the place you'd take a body to bury it. I, for one welcome development of the Docklands of Galway

You could make the same argument that Mutton Island looks shoite (no pun intended) since they built the causeway. Infact, it does take away from the scenery, but fcuk me pink, it was needed. So is a re-development of the Docklands

If you were to argue, on a political/realistic front that the positives/negatives of a redevelopment are a 'close call' and your only argument is that a crane may slightly impede your view, you'd be laughed out of the board-room

-Edit- Just to add, you say that the views of the freed up areas will be seriously impacted upon... Do you think CIE are going to turn their now 'free space' into a Childrens Park or something? Get real, they'll continue to use their space for commercial use... and as I said before, the staff are hardly there for the view of the Clare Hills, and the public definately won't be able to access the area. Your argument is the equivalent of a blind man objecting to a house being built accross the road from him as it'll block his view :pac:

Also, you do realise there'll be quite a distance between the likes of Wolfe Tone bridge and this redevelopment.... If you think these cranes will take up half the horizon, you're having a laugh. For them to take up half the Horizon from the Wolfe Tone Bridge, they'd have to be located at the Spanish Arch :pac:

One final thing, do you think that Galway is the import/export hub of Europe or something? You're going WAY OTT. The way you're going on you'd swear it's going to be a carbon copy of the Dublin Docklands. The West simply doesn't have the economic infrastructure to demand such high traffic

Eh, relax! Do you feel the need to shout everyone down who DARES to disagree with you?

You're perfectly entitled to the opinion that Galway's visual appearance isn't of any importance to it's future compared to the (undisputed) benefits of economic and industrial development of the port. You don't need to throw insults and expletives around to try and get me to agree with you.
I personally believe that this proposal would completely destroy the city centre's relationship with the bay, thus making it a less attractive place generally thus reducing it's appeal as a potentially wonderful, maritime based hub for tourism and culture.

It's all about an overall vision for the city. Maybe mine just seems to be a lot different to yours.

The CIE lands already have an application in for hundreds of apartments, commercial development etc. and an "extension of the city centre towards the waterfront" as they claim in their marketing. Something similar will happen to the harbour lands on the city centre side of Lough Atalia once the oil tanks etc. move out. That whole docks/waterfront area when developed could be literally stunning with wonderful views out to the bay and a proper waterfront like any great leisure-based maritime city. I just think that this potential could be utterly scuppered by charging ahead with this particular, purely engineer driven scheme. As far as i know there's been no architectural or urban planning input into this proposal at all as yet - that's madness when it's going to change the very shape of the city! Who knows, maybe there is a way it could work and not just create an vast swathe of ugliness as the backdrop to our lovely new marinas and waterfronts.

Like I say I can TOTALLY see the pros of this proposal, theres no need to shove them down my throat. I just happen to think that visual impact is far too important to be ignored, especiallly if Galway is to make the most of it's huge potential as a tourism, leisure and cultural destination all year round.

leninbenjamin · 14-12-2008 7:21pm

personally, rather than reclaiming land around the city area i'd rather they moved most of the industrial operations out further to the likes of Ros an Mhíl or somewhere further out, and just improve connections to the city with some proper infrastructure, like a dual carriagway and rail connection for heavy goods to the industrial estates. I've no idea how feasible this would be though, so don't get in a twist if it's completely nuts

the Marina will be great though, it's been needed for so long.

Galway Docks Development

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