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JCDecaux Pull Out

  • 10-02-2009 10:08pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭


    ..of Paris .

    A popular bicycle rental scheme in Paris that has transformed travel in the city has run into problems just 18 months after its successful launch. Over half the original fleet of 15,000 specially made bicycles have disappeared, presumed stolen.

    It would take about 18 weeks for yer typical Dublin skangers to have a similar impact on the stock there :cool:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7881079.stm
    But the bikes have suffered more than anticipated, company officials have said.


    Hung from lamp posts, dumped in the River Seine, torched and broken into pieces, maintaining the network is proving expensive. Some have turned up in eastern Europe and Africa, according to press reports.

    Since the scheme's launch, nearly all the original bicycles have been replaced at a cost of 400 euros ($519, £351) each.
    The Velib bikes - the name is a contraction of velo (cycle) and liberte (freedom) - have also fallen victim to a craze known as "velib extreme".
    o.gif
    Various videos have appeared on YouTube showing riders taking the bikes down the steps in Montmartre, into metro stations and being tested on BMX courses.

    Remi Pheulpin, JCDecaux's director general, says the current contract is unsustainable. "It's simple. All the receipts go to the city. All the expenses are ours," he said.

    The costs, he said, were "so high that a private business cannot handle it alone, espcially as it's a problem of public order. If we want the velib set-up to keep going, we'll have to change the business model," he told Le Parisien newspaper.

    The original contract gave the advertising company a 10-year licence to exploit 1,600 city-wide billboards in return for running the scheme, plus a share in the revenue, estimated at 20m euros for the first year of operation.

    City hall has recently agreed to pay towards the costs of replacing the stolen or trashed bicycles but is refusing to bail out the company.

    Not all the bicycles receive rough treatment however. One velib repairman reported finding one of the bikes customised with fur covered tyres.
    The scheme was modelled on one in Lyon, which appears to have been less troublesome, and has been extended to other cities in France. It is also being copied overseas with London, San Francisco and Singapore all intending to set up similar schemes

    PARIS CYCLE SCHEME IN NUMBERS
    20,000 bicycles
    1,250 stations
    Cost 400 euros each to replace
    7,800 "disappeared"
    11,600 vandalised
    1,500 daily repairs
    Staff recover 20 abandoned bikes a day
    Each bike travels 10,000 km a year
    42 million users since launch

    Source: Velib


«134

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Bets that they'll disappear here and the entire scheme will be abandoned but the ads will be completed and will remain?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭Type 17


    JC Deceaux seem to be having a hard time of it with their bikes in Paris... I wonder if they are still as keen on their agreement for Dublin...

    BBC News Article


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,886 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I'm sure the cost of replacing 450 bikes will be trivial compared to the cost of replacing 15,000 or compared to the advertising revenue they're currently making.

    I'm wagering that they're still hoping we'll have all forgotten about the actual bikes come spring/summer and we won't see them at all. Bold you for bumping this thread!

    By the way, does anyone know the names of the councillors who approved this scheme and the names of the councillors who had it postponed pending the health and safety assessment? Local elections are coming up you know :) Edit: I got John Tierney for the scheme, Councillors Christy Burke (pity he's a shinner) and Emer Costello against from Madsl's video.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭Type 17


    Stark wrote: »
    I'm sure the cost of replacing 450 bikes will be trivial compared to the cost of replacing 15,000 or compared to the advertising revenue they're currently making.

    ...Bold you for bumping this thread!

    Yes, but how many times do you think that the 450 bikes will have to be replaced? ;) - I'm in no way condoning or suggesting theft or vandalism, but I see Paris as a more sophisticated city than Dublin (remember what happened to the fibreglass cows a few years ago?), and look at the trouble that they're having there.

    I only bumped the thread because of 'new and relevant information' :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,886 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    There's more to Paris than the Champs-Élysées. It has its fair share of inner city rough areas just like Dublin. I mean "bold you" in a good way btw;)

    Anyway, I think this should definitely become an issue for the upcoming elections. Anyone want to help compile a comprehensive list of councillors involved? We could put it somewhere like the biki maybe.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Zoney


    Hah! As if there will be any replacement of bikes here! They'll simply be gone in a week and the billboards will remain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭Type 17


    Stark wrote: »
    There's more to Paris than the Champs-Élysées. It has its fair share of inner city rough areas just like Dublin.

    I mean "bold you" in a good way btw;)

    Indeed, there's always a bad bit to every city (I've even been to the rough part of the otherwise jewel-like Florence in Italy) - but I suspect that Dublin's average level of sophistication may be lower than Paris's :( (sad though I am to say it as a native Dubliner).

    I wasn't sure about the "bold" bit, it's sometimes frowned upon...

    I don't have details of the councillors but judging by the posts in this thread, others will probably know.
    I reckon that it will make a good door-step conversation. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭Type 17


    Zoney wrote: »
    Hah! As if there will be any replacement of bikes here! They'll simply be gone in a week and the billboards will remain.

    You're so cynical, this is JCD and DCC we're talking about! Oh, wait...


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Stark wrote: »
    Edit: I got John Tierney for the scheme, Councillors Christy Burke (pity he's a shinner) and Emer Costello against from Madsl's video.


    Tierney is city manager (official, not a councillor)

    Give Andrew Montague a pasting on the bikes/ads

    Emer has been great, along with Dermot Lacey in being vocally against the scheme.

    If they come around your door - ask if they have seen the contract, and if DCC will have to shell out like Paris are being asked to keep the scheme going.

    As it stands it looks like Paris is a bit of a FAIL


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    450 bikes times €400 = €180K replaced say 10 times = €1.8m

    Decaux advertising revenue for 72 signs over 15 years = €185m

    Hmmm....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Some have turned up in eastern Europe and Africa
    ,

    Perhaps these were discovered thrown into the Fingan County Council wheely-bins,hundreds of which are apparently to be found in rural Romania... :rolleyes:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    Well surprise surprise, the Dublin City/JCD "deal" is about to be revealed from the crock it is.

    On paper it's a worthy idea but a city council should have no role in private bike hire and this project serves no use for either the tourist or a city resident. What city resident would have need for a short term hire of a bike. If you want one buy one, it doesn't encourage cycling. A tourist can hire one from the many private hire companies.

    DCC should have taken a percentage of the ad revenue and if they wanted to encourage cycling, give it to the budget that maintains and builds cycling infrastructure.

    It seems that DCC's colleagues in Dun Laoghaire RD opted for the cash with Clear Channel.

    There was a lot of fuss about the positioning of the signs etc. which was possibly unwarranted. I've got quite used to them myself but I can understand citizen annoyance with the poor deal, in my opinion, the city fathers drove on this one. ON yer bikes I say!


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    MadsL wrote: »
    As it stands it looks like Paris is a bit of a FAIL

    I don't think it's that straight forward.

    Even if the system in Paris was scraped tomorrow (which there are no signs of such happening) the system has encouraged a large increases in normal bicycle use.

    What is happening is more like the business model JC Decaux signed up to has been damaged by the downturn and massive drop in advertising. So, now the company is making nose. JC Decaux are in a contract too you have to remember. One they no longer like.

    In any case, the company looks to be wanting a rework of the contract... As the quote from the company says: "It's simple. All the receipts go to the city. All the expenses are ours." And, remember, Paris apparently secured far, far better terms than Dublin did.

    There's lots of unanswered questions here too: On stolen bikes is the security deposit being used by JCD or is it also going to the city of Paris? Where and how are the bikes being stole?... If at the docking stations, does security need to be improved? If after somebody rents a bike, does the security deposit needed to be increased to account for a larger percentage of the cost of replacements?

    Also on costs: How much do the bikes actually cost? Have the actual cost of the bikes gone down since JC Decaux started working with Lapierre last year? (Lapierre are a large bicycle manufacturer, according to their website they only starting working with the ad company in 2008)

    And, I'm wondering why the BBC are using a downmarket Paris-based tabloid newspaper as a source. Maybe cuts at the Beeb are affecting standards? As the tabloid looks to be the main (only?) source of the very high number of bikes which have gone missing, I'd question how accurate it is.
    Type 17 wrote: »
    but I suspect that Dublin's average level of sophistication may be lower than Paris's :( (sad though I am to say it as a native Dubliner).

    You have a rose-tinted view of Paris, or an overly dim view of Dublin, or a mixture of both.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Zoney wrote: »
    Hah! As if there will be any replacement of bikes here! They'll simply be gone in a week and the billboards will remain.
    Typical. The scum will damage the bikes but not the advertising stands!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭Type 17


    monument wrote: »
    You have a rose-tinted view of Paris, or an overly dim view of Dublin, or a mixture of both.

    Well, time will tell, and I'd be delighted to be proved wrong on my prediction for the bicycles' damage rate.

    It's hard to remain upbeat sometimes when you hear stuff such as that a female swan was killed in Herbert Park recently (January) by someone throttling it with wire (Gardai are investigating). Its male mate and their single offspring have left the pond in the park and have not been seen since. If there are people out there who think that killing a swan is fun, imagine how they'll view trashing a public bike?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    Monument wrote:
    Even if the system in Paris was scraped tomorrow (which there are no signs of such happening) the system has encouraged a large increases in normal bicycle use.

    I find that hard to believe but I am happy to be proved otherwise. Are there any links etc. online reporting this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Ste.phen


    The bike idea is a good one, it seems to work quite well in Barcelona, at least.
    The "deal" DCC agreed to was nothing short of madness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,716 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    BrianD wrote: »
    What city resident would have need for a short term hire of a bike. If you want one buy one, it doesn't encourage cycling. A tourist can hire one from the many private hire companies.

    this is nonsense - the Paris scheme has been hugely popular so clearly there is a demand for casual bike-hire among the public. I work in the city centre - I'd use this if it was available and I needed to go another part of the CC - it would be quicker than walking or getting the bus...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭Rawr


    loyatemu wrote: »
    this is nonsense - the Paris scheme has been hugely popular so clearly there is a demand for casual bike-hire among the public. I work in the city centre - I'd use this if it was available and I needed to go another part of the CC - it would be quicker than walking or getting the bus...

    +1
    I live in a city where a similar scheme is in action, and for travelling around short distances in the city, it is almost always faster than taking the bus/tram.

    The idea is sound in my opinion.

    However, the 'deal' the DCC got, as Ste.phen put it, is nothing short of madness.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭crocro


    Misleading thread title: JC Decaux are not pulling out of Paris. They're just spinning a story to try to renegotiate their contract.

    7800 bikes @400euro for a total of 3m replacement cost is tiny money. It's amazing that their bikes are doing 10,000km/year and testament to the success of the scheme. 200 million bike kms per year is a huge number. It's a very handy system in Paris that complements the public transport system well. You can make short connections in the city using one-way bike rentals, pick up a bike at the bus stop, leave it when you reach the metro.

    There is a credit card security deposit of 150/bike. So, unless the bikes are being stolen directly from the stands, then a lot of the replacement cost is recoverable.

    The Dublin deal is bad value: we're getting just 450 bikes vs the 20,000 in Paris and we're giving a huge number of poster sites in return. JC Decaux has prior convictions for bribery and Dublin City council hasn't been white as snow in the past. Incompetence or corruption? You decide.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    BrianD wrote: »
    I find that hard to believe but I am happy to be proved otherwise. Are there any links etc. online reporting this?

    I'm sure I read it else where too, but the PBS 'e2' series episode on Paris and Velib there is the claim that the real increase is in use of other bicycles, which has apparently doubled. You can view it here http://www.e2-series.com/ it's about half way where this is mentioned, it adds that bicycle shops were against it at first but their business has never been better.

    As part of a wider project Paris has also decreased speed limits, and installed cycle lanes (including allowing cyclists to use one-way streets both directions).

    But if you think about it a barrier to cycling usage growth is often people thinking cycling is not possible, and a system like this can show it is. An element of the 'safety in numbers' concept likely has an effect too (ie safety in numbers, but because more people are cycling it looks safer too).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Stupido


    simple maths....

    20,000 bikes @ €400 a pop = €8m
    42,000,000 journeys = €0.19 a journey

    They charge €1 (i think) = €0.81 profit


    even take away other associated costs that is not a bad investment...

    I wonder what savings the authorities & others made in the reduction of car journeys in Paris as a result?


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,236 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Posts moved from other thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭Type 17


    Not my comment on the JCD scenario, but someone else's, that I saw on a DCC lamp post in Dublin city centre (pics edited for language on Boards, but unedited in reality):

    IMG_1502-Version2.jpg

    IMG_1503-Version2.jpg


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Advertising bad, graffiti lovely?


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    monument wrote: »
    Advertising bad, graffiti lovely?

    I think Banksy summed it up...
    They say graffiti frightens people and is symbolic of the decline in society, but graffiti is only dangerous in the mind of three types of people; politicians, advertising executives, and graffiti writers….

    The people who truly deface our neighbourhoods are the companies that scrawl their giant slogans across buildings and buses trying to make us feel inadequate unless we buy their stuff. They expect to be able to shout their message in your face from every availiable surface but you’re never allowed to answer back. Well, they started this fight and the wall is the weapon of choice to hit them back.

    In case you are wondering, no these stickers are not my work. I and others who have been campaigning against the JCDeceit deal, decided to only use legal means. Had we gone illegal, it would have been angle-grinders not stickers :D.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Type 17 wrote: »
    Not my comment on the JCD scenario, but someone else's, that I saw on a DCC lamp post in Dublin city centre (pics edited for language on Boards, but unedited in reality):
    Those stickers are all over Dublin, different varieties on stainless cycle racks some funny. looks like the work of students or someone who worked in competition that had a grudge against them . More examples here.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055495336


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    They are brilliant!
    Well done to the person/s who did them!


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    The French do it louder and harder!!

    Babel fish transaltion not the best....(mensonge = a lie or falsehood)

    Twenty hours of police custody for 6 militants anti-pub of the " Déboulonneurs" PARIS - Six members of the collective antipublicitaire of Déboulonneurs spent 20 hours as a police custody after having " barbouillé" three billboards in IXe district of Paris, one learned Sunday from police source. " In 34 actions, c' is the first time that daubers are not slackened by the police force with l' four hours exit lawful d' interpellation" , s' the collective is made indignant, which each month organizes such actions of civil disobedience in order to denounce l' giant posting. Saturday afternoon, the six militants had registered slogans antipublicitaires on three panels of l' bill-poster Future (group JC Decaux), located Rochechouart boulevard, in IXe district. Inter alia slogans, one could read " window of the mensonge" , " violence économique" or " legitimate réponse". With l' exit of this action, the daubers were challenged and led to the police station of VIIIe district. They n' were slackened that Sunday midday, with l' 20 hours exit of police custody. According to the police source, an preliminary investigation for " dégradation" was open on instruction of the parquet floor. The déboulonneurs say not to want " to remove the publicité" but " to give to its place". They claim that the billboards are limited to 50 X 70 cm, like l' associative posting.

    http://www.romandie.com/ats/news/090301152509.346hujju.asp

    By the way - despite my sig. the stickers aren't me - fair play to whoever it is.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    well as pointed out before the latin motto on the lamppost already says

    'The obedience of the citizens produces a happy city'


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