How dangerous are motorbikes?

af_thefragile · 13-03-2009 11:08pm #1

I decided a while ago that its the time for me to beat the traffic and take things under my control!
I decided over the coming summer, i'm gonna work, get biking lessons and then by winter i should have enough money to get a bike and start riding it into college instead of spending an hour in bus everyday. Actually next year i'll have to be going to a different place for college studies and for that, if i was taking the bus, i'ld have to take 2 buses to get there and it'ld atleast take me 90mins. Time i really can't afford to waste on a boring and monotonous bus journey. Hence, i'ld get my bike and get there in 30mins ish while feel good about the whole process...!

So it all looked amazing and fine till i told my friends about my plans and they were all like "its too dangerous", "its too expensive", "its not a good thing to do in Ireland where the roads are wet all the time and the drivers aren't the best", "even if you're an amazing driver someone else is gonna knock you over and its really not worth the risk".

And all this got me to reconsider my plans. Is biking really that dangerous that you will inevitably end up with broken bones and incapable of having kids? And am i better off getting a car instead getting caught up in Dublin rush hour traffic and paying parking charges rather than risking my life saddled up on an engine with two wheels...??

I'ld kinda appreciate some proper advice here cuz i do have a serious thing for bikes (especially red Ducatis) and i'm really really seriously considering getting into biking but at the same time i don't think i'm too keen on spending the rest of my life on a wheelchair or something...
So could you guys give me your opinions on how dangerous biking really is and if the whole "you'll inevitably crash and get seriously injured" a blown up myth or is it quite true... And maybe if you could also mention what your worst biking crash was... just as a bonus, that'll be super!! :pac:

Thanks!

slapper · 13-03-2009 11:13pm

they are dangerous if they are in the wrong hands
dont get too big a bike, get lessons (and not just enough to know how to start and stop ), taking in what different people teach you , dont try keep up with anyone learn to drive at your pace your speed will come with time ,there is good speed and bad speed, get good gear, keep your bike in good condition ask someone to teach you the basics of maintanance if you dont no , and most of all enjoy it

theyre dangerous yes but a hell of alot of fun just dont rush and as i said enjoy

13-03-2009 11:17pm

There are risks of course but as long as you use a bit of common sense you'll be fine. Get decent gear and lessons and keep your wits about you. Don't let other people who have probably never been near a bike put you off getting one.

mikemac · 13-03-2009 11:20pm

Go for it OP.

But get lessons and proper gear first.
Don't think of this as an extra cost but an investment. Training is invaluable.

af_thefragile · 13-03-2009 11:25pm

Yeah, i'll probably be going for a 250cc bike or something for starting out on. And i do plan on doing a beginner driving course before i get my bike cuz i've never ridden a bike before and i don't wanna just get one to get on it and fall off it the next moment. I've planned to spend the summer taking lessons. I'll take as many lessons as it takes for me to get confident enough to ride around town and only once i'm confident enough to do that, i'll get my own bike. Or maybe get my bike after i'm confident that i'm not gonna fall off it after a few hundred meters and take a few lessons on my bike... however it works out.

But yeah, i do plan on getting to learn about biking and getting good gear (and as much protection as i practically can) before i set out to take the streets. I really don't wanna be stupid and risk crashing cuz i can't afford it, i've got many other plans in my life which require me to remain in perfect physical condition!!

antiskeptic · 14-03-2009 12:22am

af_thefragile wrote: »

I decided a while ago that its the time for me to beat the traffic and take things under my control!

25 years of 365 riding in the bag and this is what I'd have to say.

1) That 25 years of experience has not only revealed motorcycling (especially town commuting motorcycling) to be the equivilent of walking point duty in Vietnam, it's also taught me how to maximise the chances of survival whilst walking point duty in Vietnam.

2) Without that 25 years (or at least a good chunk of it) under your belt you're like a lamb to the slaughter. The dangers are so numerous, so subtle , so ever present - you're literally walking across a minefield blindfold. Even if your a sensible type who knows that bikes need to be treated with respect you're only a whisker ahead of the youth who thinks he can nail it open and head for the horizon. You simply can't see the danger when you've no experience and the only true way you'll learn about it is through near misses and/or accidents.

Which presents you with the very best reason to stay clear of motorcycles. The dilemma which is impossible to resolve.

"You can't ensure a reasonable chance of healthy survival without gaining experience. You can't gain the experience necessary to ensure healty survival without first running unacceptable risks".

The usual way this dilemma is overcome is to be young, stupid and fortunate enough to survive long enough. Many don't survive it. Many more are permanently and painfully disabled by it.

3) In order to be injured in a car crash you have be very unlucky or crash at reasonably high speed. Every incident on a motorcycle lends itself to potentially horrific injuries or death. A driver opens his door to empty his ashtray in stopped traffic, your driving gingerly by at 10mph, get knocked off by him ... and your legs are run over by a truck coming the opposite way. The world abounds with motorcyclists who haven't been killed or paralysed from the neck down. They've just smashed limbs and incurred permanent nerve damage and can look forward to those injuries debilitating their lives as they get older.

4) Rider training won't do it for you. It's better than nothing but it just can't cut the risk to acceptable level.

5) In skilled hands the right bike for the job can be rendered a reasonably safe beast. Wet, greasy cold roads - the like which you'd see a lot of if town commuting is your game - calls for the very best of skills and the greatest levels of alertness. If you'd balk at the notion of riding around at town speeds in the wet with no brakes - for such is the level of predictive skill required to ride safely in the wet - then commuting motorcycling isn't for you

6) I commuted Bray/Finglas/Bray for 7 years. Every few of days you'd see a bent moped/motorcycle leaning against a railing with debris from the recent collision littering the buslane.

7) Bike gear won't protect you from moderate to serious injury. You stop road rash and cracking your skull open .. is all. There's plenty more to injure that just your skin and your skull.

8) The chances are high that if you start out riding a bike you'll fall-off/crash - I don't know anyone who hasn't. The chances are also high that you'll get away with mild-moderate injury in those crashes. However, there is nothing separating getting a minor injury from getting a quality-of-life-destroying injury... except luck (or God whether you believe in him or not). You asked what folks most serious injury was? The front wheel of my motorcycle locked up at 80mph flinging me to the deck where I slid along - on my side of the road - for a couple of hundred yards. I knocked a 2 euro sized piece of flesh from one kneecap which only required a few stitches. A lad down the road from me T-boned a car pulling out of a side road at around 30mph and is spending the rest of his life in a wheel chair.

9) Biking isn't "fun". It's a serious game where the enjoyment comes from recognising the risk, managing the risk and commanding the terrain your in. It's exhilerating in that sense. But not fun as such - your too busy concentrating to have fun. If it is being considered as fun then you're likely in serious danger.

10) If your bike commute is a town one taking (you say) a half an hour then a bicycle will get you there quicker - you don't have to stop at lights on a pushbike. You'll save time not having to struggle in and out of all that heavy gear either.

Don't get me wrong. I've enjoyed bikes tremendously but knowing what I know about the risks facing the inexperienced, I wouldn't advise my worst enemy to take it up.

lord lucan · 14-03-2009 12:59am

jesus antiskeptic,you nearly made me hang up my lid.:eek:

Seriously,i commute on a scooter(125),every day is training imo,i don't know it all,never will. Every day i encounter new or strange circumstances,they're the best training you can get,memorise them and remember them,you'll use that information again in the future.

I love the bike(ped/scooter etc etc),even more so as we come into better weather. The winter just gone is the roughest i've driven in. If i was the OP i'd get as much mileage as possible during the spring/summer,it'll take a few months before you feel completely comfortable on 2 wheels,you don't want to be only getting aquainted with your ride going into the autumn with wind buffeting you and wet leaves etc on the road. Ride as much as you can during the summer,no doubt we'll have plenty of rain so you'll get used to wet weather riding.

af_thefragile · 14-03-2009 1:02am

Thanks for that reply antiskeptic.

I do feel i've moved passed the days of taking unacceptable risks for cheap thrills like speeding on a motorway or driving recklessly. I do like to follow the law, stay safe and believe on leaving the speed for the race track and even then i think i'ld be a little too sacred to push a bike to its limits. Maybe its cuz i've never driven a bike before so right now i'm not too confident about it as i do love speed and have a bit of a thrill seeker personality but i think i can store that for the proper place and time.

Right now i just want something practical to ride to college to and basically have a fun time doing that. I don't think i'll be able to bike to college as i'm not a very good cyclist and that would take me ages to get to the place and would also wreck me in the process! I also want something that would wake me up in the morning and i could look forward to riding it into college rather than dreading another day on the bus again.

Now to be honest, i'm not much of a biker guy. Don't get me wrong, i love bikes but i also like cars and given the circumstances where you didn't have as much traffic and no parking charges, i'ld mostly prefer a car over a bike. But saying that i'ld also love to have a bike to ride it occasionally for the joy of it.
I'm saying that to kinda give the idea that i don't really plan on riding the bike all the time everyday for the rest of my life. I just feel i need it everyday for the next couple of years though. Atleast till while i'm a student and in Dublin. So maybe that reduces my chances of getting into a serious crash. But then again all it takes is a stroke of bad luck though the same could be said for a car and pretty much anything else too...

But i do understand that on a bike the risks get higher and this is something i'm trying to get around. Maybe i could do away with some minor injuries. Maybe i could also save myself though some bad crashes with good protective gear but i really really don't feel i could risk a major injury that could leave me not capable of performing certain tasks. I plan to live a pretty challenging life and the last thing i'ld want is a disability. I just wanna asses that disabling major injury risk and make sure its a risk i can afford to take.

seanybiker · 14-03-2009 1:06am

ah your posts are to long. Get the bike, ya be grand boy.

EvilMonkey · 14-03-2009 1:20am

Motorbikes aren't dangerous, people are!
Get the bike, get some training, you wont regret it. :cool:

antiskeptic · 14-03-2009 1:37am

af_thefragile wrote: »

I do feel i've moved passed the days of taking unacceptable risks for cheap thrills like speeding on a motorway or driving recklessly. I do like to follow the law, stay safe and believe on leaving the speed for the race track and even then i think i'ld be a little too sacred to push a bike to its limits. Maybe its cuz i've never driven a bike before so right now i'm not too confident about it as i do love speed and have a bit of a thrill seeker personality but i think i can store that for the proper place and time.

1) Guarenteed. The confidence will come long before the ability catchs up.

2) A bloke up my way lives in Greystones and works in Rathmines and was asking like you were. I advised him to get a bike - that it was a great way to beat the traffic. He bought a slug of a thing (Yamaha 500cc chopper). He's 50, in the army - no thrill seeker. He fell off/got knocked off that thing 3 times in the first year and got away with it each time (bar for a slow to repair shoulder injury). He drove the same route as me and when he told me where it was he'd come a cropper each time I knew the spot and knew the danger. I could tell by his self-defending description of what happened that he'd gone in completely blind.

He's off the bike now. His wife threw the keys away.

Right now i just want something practical to ride to college to and basically have a fun time doing that. I don't think i'll be able to bike to college as i'm not a very good cyclist and that would take me ages to get to the place and would also wreck me in the process! I also want something that would wake me up in the morning and i could look forward to riding it into college rather than dreading another day on the bus again.

I understand the dilemma. I'd pull into the carpark in work in Finglas watching my colleagues huddle against the weather as they scuttled between car and front door. Me? I'd just had the thrill of the puzzle that is cutting it up in morning traffic. Talk about awake!

All the practicalities in the world don't alter the situation though. It's not the high speed prang that you need be worried about. It's the ceaseless source of danger you'll put yourself in on the way to college.

Now to be honest, i'm not much of a biker guy. Don't get me wrong, i love bikes but i also like cars and given the circumstances where you didn't have as much traffic and no parking charges, i'ld mostly prefer a car over a bike. But saying that i'ld also love to have a bike to ride it occasionally for the joy of it.

I'm not much of a biker guy myself. I got into them and never got out of them but I don't care for hanging out with bikers or reading mags or watching racing on telly.

There is enjoyment to be had. In the early years it was the thrill-through-ignorance, in the middle years unhappiness because of the risk, in the latter year enjoyment again through the challenge of solving the riding puzzle: how to ride without getting clipped became that challenge.

Riding on open roads where events come at you at a digestable rate is one thing. Commuting riding is just death-trap land: a constant, varying, rapid-fire stream of risk coming right at you - with you not having the ability to discern it or cope with it.

It'd be just luck mate. That's what you'd be relying heavily on.

I'm saying that to kinda give the idea that i don't really plan on riding the bike all the time everyday for the rest of my life. I just feel i need it everyday for the next couple of years though. Atleast till while i'm a student and in Dublin. So maybe that reduces my chances of getting into a serious crash. But then again all it takes is a stroke of bad luck though the same could be said for a car and pretty much anything else too...

Inexperienced all-year-round commuting in a captial city represents about the highest level of risk you could possible run.

But i do understand that on a bike the risks get higher and this is something i'm trying to get around. Maybe i could do away with some minor injuries. Maybe i could also save myself though some bad crashes with good protective gear but i really really don't feel i could risk a major injury that could leave me not capable of performing certain tasks. I plan to live a pretty challenging life and the last thing i'ld want is a disability. I just wanna asses that disabling major injury risk and make sure its a risk i can afford to take.

You've answered your own question. You're ability to maintain your body in the condition required to ensure lifes opportunities remain open to you can be wiped out in a moment on a street in Dublin on a cold, wet winters morning. All anyone would know of it would be the bent motorcycle leaning against the railing and the broken debris littering the buslane.

You've no experience. In your hands a bike represents an unacceptable risk - given your requirements for life. Swallow hard and walk away.

sickpuppy32 · 14-03-2009 1:46am

statistically speaking you've as much shance of dying in an airplane crash i believe

af_thefragile · 14-03-2009 1:57am

I think what i'm gonna do is probably go ahead and take a few lessons anyway. I'ld like to see for myself if its something i can feel i can be confident enough to do or i should walk away instead. I know if i don't give it a shot, i'm gonna regret not giving it a shot for the rest of my life.

There have been a few things that i thought i'ld love but on trying it out, i found out it wasn't for me (like skiing for example). There have been things that i thought i wouldn't really fancy much but on trying out i fell in love with it (like sailing for example). And there were things i knew i'ld love and on trying out i did love it.

Right now i can't tell which category the motorbike will fit into. But i'll never know until i give it a try. So i guess i will give it a try this summer (as i won't have college, i won't be driving one though Dublin everyday). If i love it, i'll probably go ahead with the plans. If i feel the risk outweighs the enjoyment and all, then i'll probably just get a car or spend the money on something else maybe!

antiskeptic · 14-03-2009 2:11am

af_thefragile wrote: »

I think what i'm gonna do is probably go ahead and take a few lessons anyway. I'ld like to see for myself if its something i can feel i can be confident enough to do or i should walk away instead. I know if i don't give it a shot, i'm gonna regret not giving it a shot for the rest of my life.

There have been a few things that i thought i'ld love but on trying it out, i found out it wasn't for me (like skiing for example). There have been things that i thought i wouldn't really fancy much but on trying out i fell in love with it (like sailing for example). And there were things i knew i'ld love and on trying out i did love it.

Right now i can't tell which category the motorbike will fit into. But i'll never know until i give it a try. So i guess i will give it a try this summer (as i won't have college, i won't be driving one though Dublin everyday). If i love it, i'll probably go ahead with the plans. If i feel the risk outweighs the enjoyment and all, then i'll probably just get a car or spend the money on something else maybe!

The insurmountable problem as I say, is your inability to weigh up the risk so as to arrive at a correct assessment. It's chicken and egg and your the eggshell. That said, God bless..

macnab · 14-03-2009 10:49am

i am 23 years commuting from meath to dublin, i have rode everything from a honda 50 to a ducati super bike, and i still love it. Yes it can be dangerous and i have been knocked off 3 times but i have not broken anything yet. You have to be hyper alert at all times on the bike. Expect people to do stupid things and always be prepared to take evasive action.

Dorsanty · 14-03-2009 11:56am

I do agree with some things said by 'antiskeptic', but I do see light at the end of the tunnel. Certainly needed to after reading that post.

I definitely agree confidence comes before skill/ability. The wake up call for that will tend to be your first drop/spill. Hopefully it would be some silly low speed mistake.

It is possible to minimize risk by choosing a less risky driving style e.g. staying in lane and not filtering. Also safety gear will do more then prevent road rash if you buy the right stuff. I don't know about anyone else but I invested well over 1k on clothes alone for a reason. e.g. full length back protector impact absorption and anti-intrusion. Now I do know there are limitations as I've experienced some of them, but it does do more then simple road rash protection.

Idleater · 14-03-2009 12:27pm

In my opinion, yes, bikes are dangerous.

I will qualify that by stating that it is clearly a risk/reward system. The downsides are that you are open to the elements, both weather and traffic. The benefits are that you are open to the elements, both weather and traffic.

antiskeptic makes some very valid points, and it is important to realise that you are always worse off from the risks above than you benefit from the rewards.

You can enjoy an entire summer of beautiful riding around, only to come a cropper on one rainy day. You can drive for 25 years only witnessing incidents, only to come a cropper by one silly pedestrian.

Training will help you learn how to deal with the risks certainly when starting out. Experience will help you maximise the rewards. It is not an overnight thing, and the one thing to remember is that you are never ever finished training.

Every ride you learn something new.

L.

Sids Not · 14-03-2009 12:57pm

Take the lessons first THEN decide if its for you or not....some people (self included) knew from the start that they wanted a bike..i think its either in you or not.....a lot of people just use them for transport ,which is fine, and you might be one of these people..but you'll only know by taking the lessons..;)

A bike ,even a moped can be lethal in the wrong hands, and i dont mean its going to be down to the rider all the time, just look at the stats....

af_thefragile · 14-03-2009 2:21pm

Thanks for the replies.

I live in Lucan and to get to the city center i'ld have to take the N4 (or i could also take a few back roads to stay out of serious traffic). I think the roads look relatively safe for riding. As there aren't any HGV's on the road as they're all diverted onto the M50. So it'ld say its only the stupid car drivers i'ld have to look out for mostly on my route... Or if i take the route by phoenix park, its only two lane road so i doubt i'll have any cars overtaking me...
Then I don't think i'ld be driving fast enough in the city center to end up in a serious accident.
So it doesn't look that dangerous to me as i know the route(s) inside out by this stage.

I've seen/herd of many biker accidents but most of them were due to the biker speeding and driving dangerously. I don't think i'm up for neither as i do believe that should be kept only for the racetrack. There were surely a good few due to stupid car drivers too. Like just last week a lady pulled over her car in front of my friend on his bike and he ended up crashing into her. Though he got away with light bruises, his bike's front got quite damaged (so did her car) but as it was the lady's fault, she's paying for the damages... So its not that bad.

But then as i mentioned earlier, i'm not gonna get a bike until i've taken some lessons first and will not drive on the streets till i've learnt enough about staying safe and spotting dangers... My plans for this summer!

conlonbmw · 14-03-2009 4:20pm

Great post antiskeptic.

I have been riding over 20 years, ex london courier, and I commuted in Ireland for a few years along the N4. Don't bother going through Chapelizod as you can use the bus lane. Heuston is busy area and quays are the same but watch out for pedestrians as they just don't look and usually cannot hear.

Get a lot of lessons from a recommended instructor.

Buy the best gear (wets and dry) you can and ALWAYS wear it.

Stick to 125 or 250 if you are a big lad until you have mastered it.

You will need at least 3 years of constant riding before getting high powered machine.

Always practise emergency stops, in sun and wet conditions, learn to use your mirrors, in town watch pedestrians as they just don't look and cannot hear, over time you will learn to read the signs when a car is about to pull out in front of you, change lane, stop suddenly, u turn, break a light

or

all of the above with Lethal Micra woman who will cut you up in traffic just because you are moving and she is not.

The laws in this country for training and getting a license are terrible compared to UK, and the road conditions make it even worse.

If you do get a bike remember you will be hit or crash at some stage, all you can do is be as prepared as possible.

af_thefragile · 14-03-2009 5:05pm

^Cheers, i could probably do away with a few crashes. Just don't wanna break any serious bones and stuff. Hence why i've decided to spend atleast 1k on protection.

I was looking to get a 250cc bike. Maybe a Honda Hornet 250 as i thought it was better to get 250cc so then i could get a full A license and like "grow into" it and it wouldn't be too big a jump when i decide to move to a 600cc bike.

Oh and can bikers use the bus lane? I wasn't sure about that...

macnab · 14-03-2009 5:10pm

everyone can use the bus lanes, just dont get caught (Thats a "NO" so Ted)

sickpuppy32 · 14-03-2009 8:24pm

a good hint for driving a bike is to keep your lights on all the time - less i didn't see you coming accidents ( cause you didn't bloody look properly miss)

thehomeofDob · 15-03-2009 1:22am

af_thefragile wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

I live in Lucan and to get to the city center i'ld have to take the N4 (or i could also take a few back roads to stay out of serious traffic).

Cages can take backroads too, but it means the roads are smaller and there's less room for overtaking. Only good if you know the roads will be empty.

af_thefragile wrote: »

I think the roads look relatively safe for riding. As there aren't any HGV's on the road as they're all diverted onto the M50. So it'ld say its only the stupid car drivers i'ld have to look out for mostly on my route... Or if i take the route by phoenix park, its only two lane road so i doubt i'll have any cars overtaking me...

No cars, but bikes. Especially idiot moped's. There's one particular Vespa that likes to live on the edge - it's usally the edge on the other side of the solid white line. Good road to take though, I usually take it over the navan road/cabra - coming from Blanch).

af_thefragile wrote: »

Then I don't think i'ld be driving fast enough in the city center to end up in a serious accident.

Speed has very little to do with city centre accidents. There are busses and trucks. They don't have to go very fast to run you over

Pedestrians and Cyclists are unknowns - but can cause so many accidents.

af_thefragile wrote: »

So it doesn't look that dangerous to me as i know the route(s) inside out by this stage.

This here is the most dangerous way to think. The minute you know a route it becomes (insert randomly generated percentage) more dangerous than a route you don't know. In all seriousness, when you "know" a route, you know the danger spots, the places to slow down, the potholes and manhole covers to avoid. It's then that you stop expecting the unexpected, because you know the route so well. When you don't know your surroundings, you're always on the lookout for whats around the bend, making sure you're taking the corner at the right speed, that you're ready for every possibility.

Both of my accidents have been on the very roads I ride twice a day, five days a week. The roads I knew like the back of my hand. Never think knowing your route reduces danger, it increases it.

af_thefragile wrote: »

I've seen/herd of many biker accidents but most of them were due to the biker speeding and driving dangerously. I don't think i'm up for neither as i do believe that should be kept only for the racetrack.

When I first got my bike - I thought it was HUGE (only a 250), was scared outta my wits. After five minutes on it (without any training) I was breaking speed limits. I was never a risk taker, but if that extra rush of speed is only a slight twist of the wrist then it's a damn hard thing to resist. When you're commuting and you're running late, or you're tired and want to get home you don't realise that most manuouvers save you only seconds of time. So you do things you think will get you home much quicker. The only time I really save on the bike is filtering at lights, or through slow moving traffic. Most other things litteraly are second savers. Don't underestimate your desire to go fast when you can (but shouldn't) and the rash decisions you make to save an extra few seconds.

af_thefragile wrote: »

There were surely a good few due to stupid car drivers too. Like just last week a lady pulled over her car in front of my friend on his bike and he ended up crashing into her. Though he got away with light bruises, his bike's front got quite damaged (so did her car) but as it was the lady's fault, she's paying for the damages... So its not that bad.

Really random, but... Jason??

af_thefragile wrote: »

But then as i mentioned earlier, i'm not gonna get a bike until i've taken some lessons first and will not drive on the streets till i've learnt enough about staying safe and spotting dangers... My plans for this summer!

You'll be driving around a track for the rest of your life. Like was said earlier, experience only comes from getting out there and doing it. Lessons are great (and a great way to save on Insurance) but experience is what will keep your skin where it should be.

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

a good hint for driving a bike is to keep your lights on all the time - less i didn't see you coming accidents ( cause you didn't bloody look properly miss)

+1 and a high vis jacket.

af_thefragile · 15-03-2009 1:37am

^cheers for that!!

So i'ld say so far what i've learnt about biking so far is that yes its dangerous and a risk but depending on your abilities and experience but its also quite rewarding and enjoyable.

Also you can take nothing for granted while biking. You've always gotta be constantly aware of your surroundings and look out for potential dangers and threats.

You're always learning with biking and its only down to experience that you become a safer driver.

You don't really save that much time by riding a bike into town than driving a car but its more exciting and fun, something you could look forward to.
Though i'ld say its definitely faster than the bus cuz the one i take into town (the 25a) takes a really long and twisted route (by wandering around lucan for 20mins) to town pretty much doubling the time it'ld normally take if you drove straight across the N4 into town...

Protection won't avoid accidents and damage but will reduce the changes of serious damage so you should spend generously on it.
And lessons will help you become a better driver and will reduce your insurance!

antiskeptic · 16-03-2009 11:54pm

af_thefragile wrote: »

Protection won't avoid accidents and damage but will reduce the changes of serious damage so you should spend generously on it.

Cheers, i could probably do away with a few crashes. Just don't wanna break any serious bones and stuff. Hence why i've decided to spend at least 1k on protection

A word to the wise - without recommending that you skimp on protection. Given the kind of riding that'll constitute most of your risk:

1) A reasonably priced helmet will offer as much protection as a top of the range Arai.

2) Assuming you're getting a textile jacket/pants, even on top grade gear (I use Alpinestar), padding is so shift-aroundable it's virtually worthless. It feels good to sit on the bike with all that padding on the elbows, knees and shoulders, but stand up away from the taut, crouched bike riding position and you'll see how easily you can shift that knee/elbow/shoulder pad aside, exposing the areas it's meant to protect. Your confidence should drop back down to realistic levels.

A proper fitting leather suit would do a whole lot better - the padding will stay put and do what it's meant to do. But it's not really practical for year round commuting.

3) Clothing protects against abrasion...and the weather. In the main, it won't protect against penetration, breakage, squashing, ripping, gashing. They're the source of the serious injuries..

4) Euro 1000 spent wisely (experience required) would just about see you right for decent quality bike gear that'll keep you warm, dry and abrasion proof. Steer clear of what looks good and get what does the job - take someone with you who knows what to look for.

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The main reason for investing in good clothing is that it'll remain waterproof - even when you've pulled it on and off a few hundred times. It's a pain in the arse when water starts trickling down into your crotch on the way into work. And a pain in the arse trying to dry out wet gear in the evening so that it'll be ready for the next day.

Tip: even the best gear can get a bit damp and clammy during a heavy downpour. Invest in a set of simple water resistant jacket/trousers to pull over your bike gear on those downpour days. They'll take the brunt of it, leaving your bike gear to cope with the rest. Make sure the over gear is a roomy fit - and don't worry what you look like.

RATM · 17-03-2009 2:30am

OP I was in the exact same situation as you two years back ( even down to using the head-wrecking 25a ). I had enough of that bus so got a bike and haven't regretted it since, I don't think I'd ever go back to Dublin Bus and there's no way I'd sit in that traffic in a car every day either.

I'd say go for it, you seem to have a level head on you about spending €1000 on protection and getting lessons. This certainly reduces your risk of injury but can never eliminate it completely.

I'd fully agree with what others have said about experience making it less likely you'll crash. I've only two years under my belt but I feel I can handle things a lot better now than at the start. I'm also more alert now than I was at the start, a few cagers pulling out on me without checking their blind spots saw to that:)

The ride is good too- all the way from Chapelizod is now bus lane so it really helps. You just gotta be alert for someone deciding to pull into it unexpectedly and dont be afraid to use the horn to let them know you're there. Anticipating situations really helps I find, if you are expecting something to happen then it helps you to react a lot faster when it does.

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

Esel · 17-03-2009 2:57am

Heard a good saying in the States: Most motorcycles last a lifetime! :eek:

af_thefragile · 17-03-2009 3:26am

Cheers antiskeptic.

Do you suggest i'ld be better off getting like one of those chest/back/arm/knee bionic protector/guard things with a jacket over it rather than just a jacket with padding/protection built into it?

antiskeptic · 17-03-2009 4:52am

af_thefragile wrote: »

Cheers antiskeptic. Do you suggest i'ld be better off getting like one of those chest/back/arm/knee bionic protector/guard things with a jacket over it rather than just a jacket with padding/protection built into it?

I'd suggest that the point of my posts has been lost on you if you think clambering in/out of such gear is going to shift the odds any more in your favour than has already been made plain.

Will that gear affect your neck being broken? Nope
Will that gear reduce the effects of a car driving over your legs? Nope
Will that gear stop a handle bar puncturing your lungs+spleen+liver? Nope
Will that gear prevent your hip being shattered? Nope

Will that gear imbue you with a false sense of security? Definitely - the customer is always right.

Abrasion protection and a modicum of bone-bruising protection is to be had. The sum of the rest of the risk renders that protection moot. The issue isn't the minor injury that such gear protects, it's the major injury that alters the course of your life forever. The kind of injury which renders such gear silent. For all it's talk: bionic my arse...

There is no protection against the kind of injury you're concerned about Frag. Bike's wouldn't hold the allure they do if there was - dress 'em up in pseudo-protection all you like. The advice remains the same - stay well clear.

17-03-2009 6:13pm

Jesus how do you manage to get on your bike at all Antiskeptic? Af,bikes can be bloody dangerous as pointed out by Antiskeptic. He's made a lot of valid points there but fookin hell he's pessimistic. Get lessons before buying one and you will find out whether biking is for you or not.

How dangerous are motorbikes?

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