How much can one improve?

El Director · 09-08-2009 3:54pm #1

I started triathlons this year and i am hooked. I have completed 8 tri's since May (4 standard, 4 sprint) and I have 2 more planned to do.

I have averaged 1 hr 20 mins for sprint and 2 hours 50 mins fr standard distance. My question is, what is a realistic goal for next year? I am aiming for a 10 min improvement on the sprints, 20 min for standard distance, on average.

My training schedule will be as follows.......

Day........Morn/Evening

Mon.......Swim/Spinning
Tue........Gym/Running (intervals)
Wed.......Swim/Spinning
Thur.......Gym/Running (intervals)
Fri.........Swim/Long run
Sat........Long cycle (3/4 hours)

Any tips,advice and opinions greatly welcomed and appreciated.

tunney · 09-08-2009 6:21pm

Maybe you should ask how to get a decent improvement between here and next year rather than telling people what you're training is DNS asking for predictions.

To be honest I don't think much of the "training plan". No periodization, only one cycle a week (spinning doesn't count), too much intensity running(questionably if you even need one interval session nevermind two). And what happened to Sunday?

Have you identified your
limiters? (endurance, strength, speed)
figure out what is slowlyling you down first.

My 2c

(ps you wouldn't happen to be attached to a Dublin club by any chance would you?)

Bambaata · 09-08-2009 10:45pm

i ask this of myself everyday!! I've come on a serious amount this year but that said i only started training last November so the races i did do last year cant really be judged. next year will tell me even more. looking forward to a nice winters training soon!!

El Director · 10-08-2009 12:18pm

Well like i said in my original post, this is my first year doing tri's, so i just want some suggestions as to how i could push on for next season.

To answer your question re club-i am not with any club, so far i have trained mostly on my own, a few sessions with mates thrown in too. Maybe this should be the first thing i do because like i said i need advice. I do live in Dublin (north)....maybe you could suggest a good club??

My training "schedule" was just something i came up with myself, what in your opinion would work better for me? Identified my limiters? How does one do this?? I haven't a clue!! Periodization? Again, could you please explain this to me.

I left sundays out because i think a rest day is a good idea plus i might be able to enjoy the odd sat night out!

I appreciate your "2c", while not very helpful, however if you could answer the above questions then that would help greatly!

P.S. What does DNS mean?

--amadeus-- · 10-08-2009 12:34pm

Generally speaking there are far greater benefits to following a structured training plan than just making up a plan yourself. A proper plan will build to a peak, include a proper cycle of hard / easy efforts and discipline rotations. It will also ensure that each discipline gets the right amount of emphasis. Google triathlon training plans and you'll find plenty to choose from - if in any doubt come back here and post a link and we'll answer any questions.

Simply periodisation is just shifting teh focus of your training according to your point in the schedule - building to a peak like I said (although there is a huge amount more to it than that)

Rest days are fine - Tunney is both fast and hardcore so he's a 7 day a week trainer but no-one should feel pressured into that (although you'll get better results if you do)

As for teh rest - I'll let the tri-heads answer those q's. there is also an excellent First tri thread on here somewhere that you could have a look at.

tunney · 10-08-2009 12:41pm

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Rest days are fine - Tunney is both fast and hardcore so he's a 7 day a week trainer but no-one should feel pressured into that (although you'll get better results if you do)

Thanks, I think, but I don't recommend 7 days a week for newbies, definitely a rest day but never a weekend day. Too much time wasted.

El Director · 10-08-2009 12:43pm

Cheers for that amadeus, that will give me a good starting point. Off to find that thread now!

P.S. You've also explained what was up Tunney's ass!

tunney · 10-08-2009 12:50pm

El Director wrote: »

To answer your question re club-i am not with any club, so far i have trained mostly on my own, a few sessions with mates thrown in too.

Sorry its just the programme looked very familiar

El Director wrote: »

Maybe this should be the first thing i do because like i said i need advice. I do live in Dublin (north)....maybe you could suggest a good club??

I used to be a huge advocate of club training, now I think its more important to have a good training squad, but thats just me and a *wholte* other conversation. On the Northside I go with 3dtri or Piranha both good clubs. (yes I am aware my club is a northside club)

El Director wrote: »

My training "schedule" was just something i came up with myself, what in your opinion would work better for me?

I don't know you, your history, your abilities, your circumstances or your committtments, there is no "one size fits all", sorry. I'd recommend getting a copy of the triathletes training bible by Joe Friel, that will get you started and change how you look at your training.

El Director wrote: »

Identified my limiters? How does one do this?? I haven't a clue!! Periodization? Again, could you please explain this to me.

Periodisation, someone else has covered.
Limiters? what makes you slower than you'd like? swim technique? Bike endurance? Bike strength?

El Director wrote: »

I left sundays out because i think a rest day is a good idea plus i might be able to enjoy the odd sat night out!

Rest days are a good idea, but they should not be a weekend day. They are too valuable. As for the odd saturday night out - bodyweight is for most newbies a huge limiter, to improve this the pints have to go.

El Director wrote: »

P.S. What does DNS mean?

Means a typo

stupid spell checker

tunney · 10-08-2009 12:50pm

El Director wrote: »

Cheers for that amadeus, that will give me a good starting point. Off to find that thread now!

P.S. You've also explained what was up Tunney's ass!

emmmm hadn't realised there was something up there, you asked a question I tried to answer.

--amadeus-- · 10-08-2009 12:51pm

tunney wrote: »

Thanks, I think, but I don't recommend 7 days a week for newbies, definitely a rest day but never a weekend day. Too much time wasted.

Fair point, I picked you up wrong. Can depend on circumstances though, I take my rest days at weekends because of family commitments. Different story if you have to fit in long bike rides as well as long runs though, so point taken.

Bambaata · 10-08-2009 1:10pm

+1 on Joe Friel's book. It has a hell of a lot in it. You don't need to adhere to everything but it helps you customise a training plan to what you need and it also helps you understand why you need to train in different ways.

El Director · 10-08-2009 4:21pm

cheers guys, thanks for the info.

MCOS · 10-08-2009 4:44pm

Joe Friel best read just before you start your winter training as it helps you to outline a plan for the year. Not that I used it, I just know a guy who used it effectively and is getting great results this year. I tried to create a plan in the spring but apart from doing the planned races training as been a make it up as I go along type of situation. Periodisation is a term I am now familiar with and will put into practice next year. Winter training this year will be full of what I've learned in my first season.

So, +1 on getting Joe Friel after 8 Tris you probably have an idea of what your strengths and weaknesses are which is a good starting point for reading that book. Set your goals for 2010 and work backwards from there

delboyfagan · 10-08-2009 4:57pm

El Director,

Why not try the group sessions for the next season anyways and see how u get on. Might be a way to motivate urself over winter months.

Where u live? Where u work/college? I ask this so info can be supplied about cycling running swimming clubs.

Do you have a turbo trainer rather than spinning. Give me a pm and I will fwd you on a workout schedule designed for winter training. It is 50 sessions spread out over 4/5 months. U could use it as a starter or just as a reference point.

LCD · 10-08-2009 5:05pm

Another vote for Friel's training bible, bought it in 05 and still read it on a regular basis.

Three things you should get
1) Joe Friel
2) Heart Rate Monitor
3) Turbo

Some bits of random advice;

Looking at your schedule is too much for a beginner, you`ll get pi$$ed off in no time. At present I would aim for 2 * swims, 2 * bike and 2 * run per week. Gym sessions if you feel like it
Join a cycling club and get out for Saturday/Sunday morning spins with them. Learn to cycle hungover!
Your long run on Friday is a disaster unless your highly motivated.
Buy a heart rate monitor and just observe till you learn more about how your body works.
Read everything you can and listen to everyone. Some will be usefull some wont.
Learn what works for you and your body

Enjoy the first year, doing any sort of training will make you better.

Also Tunney knows his stuff, he is fast, been at it a while & is very well read. I regularly bounce ideas off him

El Director · 10-08-2009 5:52pm

Thanks guys,

Just ordered that book there, sounds like a lot of people swear by it! I have a garmin forerunner 305 which is one of the best things I have ever bought! I was considering buying a turbo trainer, is this the better than spinning? I thought they were more or less the same thing. What turbo trainer would ye suggest?

I live in Dublin, working as a teacher in Blanchardstown , sorry delboy but I’m also new to boards.ie so not sure what a “pm” is??!! (I’m gonna guess “personal message”) If you could send me on that schedule that would be brilliant!

Tunney does seem to know his stuff in fairness and I thank him also.

Thanks again lads.

DAVE_K · 10-08-2009 7:19pm

Don't forget to look at other areas you can knock time off like transitions and equipment (are you wearing bike shoes for example, tri-suit, lock-laces?).............work out what you can shave off here, then you need to look at the other 3 disciplines, your abilities in each, how much training you did to achieve your times in those disciplines in your triathlons this year and what's a realistic amount of time you can knock off them..............so if i was looking at myself i'd be thinking with decent training I could knock 10 minutes off my lousy bike time on 40 k, but taking a minute off my 10 k would take the same amount of effort.

Bambaata · 10-08-2009 7:23pm

in these summer months the spinning should be replaced by cycling on the road. turbos are generally good when weather doesnt permit like icey roads in the winter

Bambaata · 10-08-2009 7:32pm

Ive got this turbo which i find good. Its a decent price for it right now too - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=9756

GoHardOrGoHome · 11-08-2009 12:09am

Bambaata wrote: »

Ive got this turbo which i find good. Its a decent price for it right now too - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=9756

Yikes! 292 euro is a decent price? I suppose anything under 200 is going to be rubbish? There's goes my (uneducated) idea of getting a turbo trainer for 100 this winter!

@OP - I'm not an expert but 11 sessions per week sounds fantastic. What were you doing last year?

Also, some of the other posters might be able to explain - why is spinning useless? I can imagine there's a few differences with geometry and whatnot but it must be doing something to help the legs? No?

El Director · 11-08-2009 8:52am

Well i started my swimming last sept because i was only able to swim 1/2 lengths. I played soccer for a club at home so my fitness was never really a problem (i just needed a new type of fitness!)

So last year i was swimming 2/3 mornings a week, running twice a week and then got my bike in March and started cycling 1/2 times/week.

As it turned out cycling was my strongest of the 3. The hillier tri's that i've done like Hell of the West and Beast of the East i found very very tough so i guess that is a limiter for me.

El Director · 11-08-2009 9:10am

Bambaata wrote: »

Ive got this turbo which i find good. Its a decent price for it right now too - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=9756

reading the reviews on this trainer coupled with your vote Bambaata i think i know what i want for my birthday! it would seem that these trainers really do improve ones performance. Maybe twice a week on the turbo (i hope there are workouts in that Joe Friel book) and one long, hilly, spin at the weekend.

tunney · 11-08-2009 9:30am

GoHardOrGoHome wrote: »

Yikes! 292 euro is a decent price? I suppose anything under 200 is going to be rubbish? There's goes my (uneducated) idea of getting a turbo trainer for 100 this winter!

@OP - I'm not an expert but 11 sessions per week sounds fantastic. What were you doing last year?

Also, some of the other posters might be able to explain - why is spinning useless? I can imagine there's a few differences with geometry and whatnot but it must be doing something to help the legs? No?

Turbos go up to 1,500 euro

A reasonable turbo will cost 250-350 euro unless you go second hand.

Spinning? Not going into this again but just ask yourself if you weren't sitting on a spinning bike would you think what you were doing was sensible for triathlon?

tunney · 11-08-2009 9:32am

El Director wrote: »

reading the reviews on this trainer coupled with your vote Bambaata i think i know what i want for my birthday! it would seem that these trainers really do improve ones performance. Maybe twice a week on the turbo (i hope there are workouts in that Joe Friel book) and one long, hilly, spin at the weekend.

Tacx Flow is good but the power figures are questionable.

Would be one I'd look at.

Also check out the Elite "Elastogel" trainers, the gel on the roller really does what they say it does. I can ride outdoors or turbo with the same tyre. (Well could, changing my turbo now)

Bambaata · 11-08-2009 9:47am

yeah i wouldn't trust the power on it but its good to be able to work through a varied workout. and for the money its a decent buy. again i wouldn't be on a turbo when you could be out on the road.

El Director · 11-08-2009 9:49am

mmmm....just checked out the Elite "Elastogel" trainers, cheaper, easier to set up and seems to replicate real world cycling better (because you have to change gear to up/down resistance). I suppose i could use my garmin forerunner with cadence sensor as my feedback. Food for thought for sure. Thanks.

Carb · 11-08-2009 10:17am

tunney wrote: »

Also check out the Elite "Elastogel" trainers, the gel on the roller really does what they say it does. I can ride outdoors or turbo with the same tyre. (Well could, changing my turbo now)

Slightly OT, are your selling you turbo. With the dark evenings fast approaching, it's something that needs to go on my shopping list.

tunney · 11-08-2009 10:25am

Carb wrote: »

Slightly OT, are your selling you turbo. With the dark evenings fast approaching, it's something that needs to go on my shopping list.

Probably, depends if the missus can use the new one, will know soon.

n-dawg · 11-08-2009 10:26am

Hey, I was in a similar position as you last year. I decided that I wanted to improved so worked out a training plan based on the ones on www.beginnertriathlete.com

What it boiled down to though was DO LOTS OF CYCLING.... During the winter I was doing about 150km per week on the bike, sessions varied from turbo sessions (boring) to long hilly cycles in Wicklow (come back feeling like you've taken happy pills). Then in the spring/early summer I upped this to about 250km per week and have done weeks of 320km.

The improvements I've seen in my racing have been huge. I've nailed it around some of the bike courses posting times that are only 2-3 min slower then the fastest and then still managed to run sub 40min for 10km (I know most tri runs are short....). Now If only I could swim

Carb · 11-08-2009 10:37am

tunney wrote: »

Probably, depends if the missus can use the new one, will know soon.

Thats fine. If the noise level isn't excessive, keep me in mind should you decide to sell. I'm in no rush to buy as I've a holiday at the end of the month that will drain the finances a bit anyway.

Seres · 11-08-2009 11:40am

delboyfagan wrote: »

El Director,

Why not try the group sessions for the next season anyways and see how u get on. Might be a way to motivate urself over winter months.

Where u live? Where u work/college? I ask this so info can be supplied about cycling running swimming clubs.

Do you have a turbo trainer rather than spinning. Give me a pm and I will fwd you on a workout schedule designed for winter training. It is 50 sessions spread out over 4/5 months. U could use it as a starter or just as a reference point.

hey delboyfagan , anychance you could fwd that workout schedule to me in a pm , thanks

How much can one improve?

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