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Beckett Bridge shambles

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  • 16-12-2009 10:41am
    #1
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,802 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.dublincycling.com/beckettbridge

    (as seen on the the Infrastructure forum.)

    Really - this is pathetic on the part of Dublin City Council - a brand new bridge, redesigned approach roads and they've still managed to cock it up completely. And they've even claimed that the reason there are so many turning restrictions around the bridge is to facilitate pedestrians and cyclists - yet the restrictions apply to cyclists as well.

    If AMontague is reading - does nobody in your roads dept. ride a bike!?


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    #2
    poochiem
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭poochiem


    that's desperate isn't it? Is there not some dodginess about that bridge? I heard them insinuating there was some shadiness about it's future on one of the sunday morning radio shows.

    I sent that on to Joe maybe he'll get the council on to explain it. :confused:


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    #3
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Just cycle on the road.


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    #4
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    poochiem wrote: »
    that's desperate isn't it? Is there not some dodginess about that bridge? I heard them insinuating there was some shadiness about it's future on one of the sunday morning radio shows.

    I sent that on to Joe maybe he'll get the council on to explain it. :confused:
    Don't quote me now, but I got the impression they were implying some restrictions were going to be in place to feed money to some fella who owns the toll roads or something. At least they were talking about him, then the bridge in connection to him, then another matter related to him. :o


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    #5
    rochefan
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭rochefan


    that is shocking. I do feel for cyclists in Dublin, the volume of traffic is so much more than here in Cork. Its more of an insult to cyclists than helpful when they create cycle lanes that last 75 meters and brings you back onto where you were, making you stop


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    #6
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    **** them.

    They gave dublin the bikes scheme. Their work RE:cyclists is over.

    The bridge is ****ing pointless anyways, It brings you to a bunch of 1 way roads and no left turns.


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    #7
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    SomeCouncilGuy wrote:
    These dodgy cycle lanes are just a legacy from the 1990s. From now on they will be done to the best international guidelines. yeah I know we mucked this one up. But its not like we had a blank canvas to work with....oh we did...oh right. Well the next one I promise will be great. Cross my heart and hope to die. It won't be a complete and utter c0ck up. SERIOUSLY. you believe me right?
    .


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    #8
    poochiem
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭poochiem


    Nevore wrote: »
    Don't quote me now, but I got the impression they were implying some restrictions were going to be in place to feed money to some fella who owns the toll roads or something. At least they were talking about him, then the bridge in connection to him, then another matter related to him. :o

    I just quoted you. but yeay, that.


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    #9
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    poochiem wrote: »
    I just quoted you. but yeay, that.

    There is always some slimy brown-nosing cocksucker on the make from this government.

    The government are only to happy to facilitate this raping of the oridinary worker.

    If that Greedy Fat bastard cowan thinks that other corrupt bastard berlisconi got it bad, he aint seen nothing.


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    #10
    Jip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Jip


    kona wrote: »
    The bridge is ****ing pointless anyways, It brings you to a bunch of 1 way roads and no left turns.

    Absolutely, I work near the southside end and thought it was going to be a bonus in getting to the northside. It's takes a bit of traffic away from Pearse Street and gets you to to the northside alright, but once over there you can go feic all places useful. Even going to from the north to the southside it's not than handy if coming down the quays, you're still better off crossing at the IFSC, for me anyway.


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    #11
    Blowfish
    Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    el tonto wrote: »
    Just cycle on the road.
    Definitely. There are nice shiny bus lanes on the bridge with no busses using them. Perfect surface, wider than any cycle lane, what more could you ask for?


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    #12
    eggie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 880 ✭✭✭eggie


    Councils are useless, full stop. These are the same people, whose permission you need if you want to build even a hen house in your own land????? They are qualified to do nothing yet have all the power and decision making responsibilities above their means and standing.

    Its the voters fault, we spent years getting English rules out of Ireland and the very first thing they introduced/adopted was the English land reform laws, pathetic.


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    #13
    AMontague
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭AMontague


    Several years ago, when the bridge was being debated in the council, I specifically raised the issue of catering for cyclists. I was assured that cyclists would be looked after. But there is much more to looking after cyclists than putting in a cycle lane. They have to be linked into the road structure.

    I met with the engineers today and they agreed that the layout is not good enough and they have also agreed to address the issues.

    Andrew


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    #14
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    AMontague wrote: »
    I met with the engineers today and they agreed that the layout is not good enough and they have also agreed to address the issues.

    Andrew

    Great work Andrew, your continued presence here is great to see also. But why can't these things be sorted out during the design phase? It seems to be a typically Irish thing that we build it first and worry about asking questions later.

    I haven't cycled along the bridge yet, but the photos that were put up recently would make me never want to go near it.


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    #15
    Bunnyhopper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Bunnyhopper


    DirkVoodoo wrote: »
    Great work Andrew, your continued presence here is great to see also. But why can't these things be sorted out during the design phase? It seems to be a typically Irish thing that we build it first and worry about asking questions later.

    I haven't cycled along the bridge yet, but the photos that were put up recently would make me never want to go near it.

    +1 I've tried cycling along Custom House Quay and City Quay etc. It's infuriatingly badly designed. It's great to hear that someone's trying to improve things. Keep it up please :)

    Even when the questions are asked the builders seem quite determined not to listen: witness the shambles on the Doughiska Road in Galway, against which the local cycling representative group campaigned, and the continuing tendency of local authorities to hide behind standards.

    Fingal's recent plans for an off-road cycle track as part of the Huntstown Way bus priority measures met with a long and detailed list of objections from the Dublin Cycling Campaign. The Council's response (quite insultingly inadequate, I thought) boiled down to, "We've done this sort of thing before so it'll be fine". It'll be interesting to see what they actually come up with.

    Even after the government has come out and said that existing cycling infrastructure is inadequate, has set out new policies, and has proposed new design standards, the local authorities are still telling us that things will be fine because they're going to keep on doing what they've been doing. That's far from reassuring because it's clear that what they've been doing is the problem not the solution.

    I'm no fan of Fianna Failure but Dempsey does seem to have some good intentions when it comes to cycling. I wish he'd knock some local authority head together sharpish.


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    #16
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,745 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    The Latin motto you see on some Dublin City Council projects is "Obedientia Civium Urbis Felicitas", or "The obedience of the citizens [makes] a happy city".

    So perhaps if you just dismount at every junction, as ordained by the planners, you'll feel a lot better.


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    #17
    fixieboy
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭fixieboy


    Fair play to Cllr Montague for engaging once again.

    Could you also see if DCC can do anything about the light sequence coming from the IFSC...the bridge should make it shorter to get to work but the light sequence means that my journey time is longer when compared with old route.

    Also, if the engineers are going to put a cycle lane in the bridge bus lane they'll need to do something about the expansion joints on the south side which are right on the corner. If these are wet and a cyclist goes over them at any speed there will certainly be injuries.


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    #18
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    fixieboy wrote: »
    Also, if the engineers are going to put a cycle lane in the bridge bus lane they'll need to do something about the expansion joints on the south side which are right on the corner. If these are wet and a cyclist goes over them at any speed there will certainly be injuries.

    There isnt much they can do, in fairness, you cycle over much worse on the roads. I dont think they are a problem. Also isnt the bridge moveable?


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    #19
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    AMontague wrote: »
    I met with the engineers today and they agreed that the layout is not good enough and they have also agreed to address the issues.

    Andrew



    I think you need new engineers.:p

    How much was spent on that bridge? Its like you lot paid for it then said "oh **** where can we put it?".
    I hope the days of airheaded spending is over and days of hiring people who have a clue are in.


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    #20
    fixieboy
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭fixieboy


    kona wrote: »
    There isnt much they can do, in fairness, you cycle over much worse on the roads. I dont think they are a problem. Also isnt the bridge moveable?


    They could at least treat the surface of the joints to give tyres more grip - a metal sander would improve it. At the moment it's sheer metal which is like ice when wet.


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    #21
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    fixieboy wrote: »
    They could at least treat the surface of the joints to give tyres more grip - a metal sander would improve it. At the moment it's sheer metal which is like ice when wet.

    Not for us on 26x 1.5 ;):p


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    #22
    fixieboy
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭fixieboy


    kona wrote: »
    Not for us on 26x 1.5 ;):p

    Fair point - I'm thinking of the citybike types :)


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    #23
    dubmess
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭dubmess


    Well the couriers of Dublin are very thankful for this bridge. We've been waiting years for a quick way to drop that package from southside to IFSC...


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    #24
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,802 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    AMontague wrote: »
    Several years ago, when the bridge was being debated in the council, I specifically raised the issue of catering for cyclists. I was assured that cyclists would be looked after. But there is much more to looking after cyclists than putting in a cycle lane. They have to be linked into the road structure.

    I met with the engineers today and they agreed that the layout is not good enough and they have also agreed to address the issues.

    Andrew

    Glad to hear you're looking into it Andrew - I hope that "addressing the issues" includes removing all the turning rectrictions for cyclists (tbh I think some of the restrictions for motorists are also daft and the bridge is very badly signposted, but these are different issues).

    L.


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    #25
    Blowfish
    Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    I should probably say that despite the complete mess they've made of the 'cycle facilities' on the bridge, I still find the bridge itself quite useful.

    It doesn't really shorten my commute either distance or time wise, however by using it I'll be away from the HGV's on the East Link, don't have to put up with the crap road surface on the North Quay's/East Link roundabout and will be affected much less by the increase in traffic every time there is a gig on at the point.

    Overall I'm glad the bridge is there and will likely keep using it, but I'll definitely be sticking to the road rather than the cycle track for now.


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    #26
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,745 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I cycled over it both ways this evening, just out of interest.

    The bridge looks lovely. I didn't bother using the cycle lane but had a quick look at it. I really don't see the point of swerving 90 degrees off the road , travelling for a few tens of metres and then swerving back onto the road. In fact, I can't see any reason to leave the road, barring the inevitable bullying from buses that will begin as soon as they're on the bridge.

    Handy, as Blowfish says, to be able to avoid the East Link. When I worked in East Point, I think I'd have been glad of it.


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    #27
    mambo
    Registered Users Posts: 697 ✭✭✭mambo


    Cyclists deem new bridge ‘dangerous’

    Dublin’s new Samuel Beckett bridge, which will form part of the government’s €10m cross-city cycle route, has been described as “dangerous, unusable and unacceptable” by a cycling lobby group

    More at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6962775.ece


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    #28
    TimAllen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭TimAllen


    mambo wrote: »
    More at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6962775.ece
    This is exactly the kind of media campaign that I would expect from cycling lobbyists and exactly the reason why such lobbies fail to get what they want. The art of politics is one of managing compromise.
    You have a pro-cycling minister who wishes to make political capital from the improvements he's making for cyclists and it gets thrown back at him on a mainstream Sunday newspaper.
    My guess is that the Minister will soon realise that there is no pleasing the cycling lobbyists and the finite political capital he has to invest will yield greater dividends on other issues.


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    #29
    Blowfish
    Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    TimAllen wrote: »
    This is exactly the kind of media campaign that I would expect from cycling lobbyists and exactly the reason why such lobbies fail to get what they want. The art of politics is one of managing compromise.
    You have a pro-cycling minister who wishes to make political capital from the improvements he's making for cyclists and it gets thrown back at him on a mainstream Sunday newspaper.
    My guess is that the Minister will soon realise that there is no pleasing the cycling lobbyists and the finite political capital he has to invest will yield greater dividends on other issues.
    The 'facilities' on the bridge are not legal cycle lanes, therefore it is illegal for cyclists to use them as they would be cycling on the footpath.

    Given that the DCC 'spokesman' doesn't seem to have a problem with this, that means that DCC are implicitly supporting illegal/criminal behaviour. Surely according to your own post here, you should be supporting the cyclists fully on this one. By not speaking out against this, surely you are implicitly supporting it too?


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    #30
    TimAllen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭TimAllen


    Blowfish wrote: »
    The 'facilities' on the bridge are not legal cycle lanes, therefore it is illegal for cyclists to use them as they would be cycling on the footpath.

    Given that the DCC 'spokesman' doesn't seem to have a problem with this, that means that DCC are implicitly supporting illegal/criminal behaviour. Surely according to your own post here, you should be supporting the cyclists fully on this one. By not speaking out against this, surely you are implicitly supporting it too?
    The Minister finds them adequate so I guess you can assume they're legal and there's no need to get your "knickers in a twist" over them.
    There you have it - the cycle lanes tracks are legal and safe to use:cool:


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    #31
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    TimAllen wrote: »
    The Minister finds them adequate so I guess you can assume they're legal
    Solid reasoning there


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