Patrick Stewart speaks about domestic voilence for Amnesty International.

Nevyn · 25-02-2010 10:45AM #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi_27bpIb30

I found this hard to watch and a horrible wonderful insight into the effect that domestic abuse has on children, esp boys when it comes to impacting on thier role model and template for adult relationships.

It also points at how far we have some in saying that domestic violence is not acceptable and that has taken men to say to other men that it is not acceptable, so to all of you who do think that domestic violence is never acceptable and who voice that opinion, thank you.

CDfm · 25-02-2010 11:22AM

Its always important that Domestic Violence gets acknowledged whoever the victims are.

Haven't Amnesty International been criticized in the past as they only preach that guys abuse and women and children are the victims. The other thing is that Amnesty International deal with war zones and that you also get male civilian victims in warzones. A bomb or a bullet does not pick genders.

I think it could be an idea to have a Domestic Violence thread where posters experienced or witnessed domestic violence as children or whatever and where the mods were ready for anonymous posting and see where it goes. More like a victim/witness rather than an interest group or volunteer thing.

It would be good to see something other than soapboxing..

Nevyn · 25-02-2010 11:40AM

CDfm if you can find a clip about a man being brave enough to speak about Domestic Voilence from the point of view of being the direct victim I'd love to see that posted as well.

I just found this clip very moving and want to share it.

PopUp · 25-02-2010 12:07PM

Jean Luc Picard ftw.

He also wrote this very moving article a while ago.

It is great to see a man speaking out about this.

CDfm · 25-02-2010 01:28PM

I agree its great to see a guy talking about it.

The American Icon John Wayne said "I deeply regret that I'll hafta sling mud." and that was his comment on the abuse he recieved at the hands of his 2nd wife Chata and he was the stereotypical he man.

I dont think guys come forward - the actors who played the Mitchell Brothers were on the recieving end but did not prosecute.

It would be cool if you could post some details of where guys should go if they are abusing their partner.

Giselle · 25-02-2010 01:42PM

CDfm wrote: »

I dont think guys come forward - the actors who played the Mitchell Brothers were on the recieving end but did not prosecute.

.

The actors who played the Mitchell brothers alleged they were on the receiving end, but since they didn't proscecute their abuse is not proven.

You can't assume guilt, thats why the courts are there and its unfair to the accused, as the victims of false rape accusations etc will tell you.

Gender shouldn't make a difference there either.

Boston · 25-02-2010 01:47PM

Thank you Thaedydal.

CDfm wrote: »

Its always important that Domestic Violence gets acknowledged whoever the victims are.

Haven't Amnesty International been criticized in the past as they only preach that guys abuse and women and children are the victims. The other thing is that Amnesty International deal with war zones and that you also get male civilian victims in warzones. A bomb or a bullet does not pick genders.

I think it could be an idea to have a Domestic Violence thread where posters experienced or witnessed domestic violence as children or whatever and where the mods were ready for anonymous posting and see where it goes. More like a victim/witness rather than an interest group or volunteer thing.

It would be good to see something other than soapboxing..

Interesting you talk about soapboxing.

star-pants · 25-02-2010 02:11PM

Just watched that - and Thaed I see what you mean by it's hard to watch.
To see him stumble over and search for words to describe what's in his head, and to picture that in a child's head, is very tough.
It is also, a good insight as you say into the horrendous world of domestic violence.

Even having heard first hand accounts of domestic / emotional / sexual abuse and violence myself, it's still never something I could comprehend to go through. Children who grow up in this environment... it's heartbreaking. But it is always good to see examples like those that I know, or Patrick Stewart here, who have finally seen it for what it was, and know in themselves it's something that they should never do, nor should it ever be accepted.

CDfm · 25-02-2010 02:21PM

Giselle wrote: »

The actors who played the Mitchell brothers alleged they were on the receiving end, but since they didn't proscecute their abuse is not proven.

You can't assume guilt, thats why the courts are there and its unfair to the accused, as the victims of false rape accusations etc will tell you.

Gender shouldn't make a difference there either.

Of course, but wouldnt be great to leave gender to one side on this.

Wasn't Farrah Fawcett arrested for spousal abuse too. Guys dont come forward.

I wonder how can you approach such a thing - I wonder if Mystic Monkey has a view?? MM are you there . ( waiting seance like thumps on the monitor )

Oink · 25-02-2010 02:30PM

Thanks for the clip OP.

Snowie · 25-02-2010 02:55PM

My mum experienced domestic violence in her first marrage... I don't know all that much about it and went on tbh I find it pretty tough to hear think about it.. As it's not something thats talked of, simply because it is very hard for her, I know of other things that happened to my mum. I don't think I can relate to his story much. But as others have said that patrick well you can see emotion with in his body laungeg but I just wanted to say that, that takes some very strong confidence to stand up and talk about such a tramatic childhood the chap diserves a standing ovation ... Very powerfull speach......

Dr Galen · 25-02-2010 03:36PM

i genuinely found that hard to watch. For someone, who normally appears so assured and calm in his words, its so apparent that the long term trauma he has had to deal with, has a profound effect upon him.

Thaed, I'd like to pick up one point you made. You talk about how men talking about domestic abuse is important. About, how showing our distaste, objections, call it what you will, is going to be key to combatting it. I couldn't agree more with you on this. Its only by the good men among us, and lets be honest we're in the majority, standing up and saying that we find female domestic violence despicable, that we can have an effect. In the way that we discuss our issues with racism, men need to stand up and call it like it is on the issue. Videos such as this, also go a long way, to show men of all ages, the effect that their violence has upon people. Maybe if this was more common, we'd see less of it, as people might, and i stress the word might, think twice before raising thier hand.

I'm not a violent person. I avoid physical confrontations. Without going into intricate detail, some of Patrick Stewart said in his piece strikes a chord with me personally, and forms the basis for my dislike of violence and such. It was/is something I can deal with but not everyone can do this. I think its important that help and support is given to men who live in fear of their temper and in fear of losing control. Its fair enough to castigate and shun those who do perpertrate violence in the home, but we should be talking about prevention. About helping guys deal with anger and control issues, so that violence doesn't become the outlet or the way to solve the argument.

Dr Galen · 25-02-2010 03:38PM

CDfm wrote: »

Of course, but wouldnt be great to leave gender to one side on this.

Wasn't Farrah Fawcett arrested for spousal abuse too. Guys dont come forward.

I wonder how can you approach such a thing - I wonder if Mystic Monkey has a view?? MM are you there . ( waiting seance like thumps on the monitor )

you called??

your right, spousal abuse occurs across the gender divide. It would be unfair though, when presented with the stats, to claim that its a 50/50 divide. This thread was created to share the video and to discuss female specific abuse, (correct me if I'm wrong Thaed)

Boston · 25-02-2010 03:53PM

Thing to note is that the father is essentially a good man with a major failing. Patrick Stewart goes to length to outlines his fathers achievements at the start and you can tell, despite it all, he's still somewhat proud of that man. That makes it all the harder to comes to terms with domestic violence. It would be easier if they were outright bastards.

Dr Galen · 25-02-2010 04:04PM

funny I got that impression too. You could tell I thought from the way he spoke, his facial expressions etc that he had pride in his father acheivements. It contrasted totally with how he talked about holding his mothers hand if she had picked up a knife one night.

Thats where I think some support systems or better awareness programs, targetted at men, to allow them access help for anger, self esteem or other contributary factors could be of benefit, because as you say Boston, they're not all outright bastards

Nevyn · 25-02-2010 04:08PM

I started the thread to share the video and highlight the impact that domestic abuse has on boys/men even when they are not the direct target, Patrick Stewart speaks about being proud of his Dad and how he was wonderful Monday to Thursday but how he dreaded the weekend, which shows some of the complexity of domestic abuse and how his father was also a victim of how things were.

His Dad would have experienced this at home also and when his father was discharged from the army, there was no debriefing or counseling or awareness of what can happen. Because it was hushed up and never spoken about his father never got help to deal with his behaviour and that all impacted on him growing up.

The Corinthian · 25-02-2010 04:28PM

What is this thread doing on this board?

Listening to that rather painfully long speech, it really came down to domestic violence against women. Suggesting that it somehow demonstrated the "impact that domestic abuse has on boys/men" is a bit laughable as ultimately there is never any question in the lecture on who the perpetrator is, and it's the bloke with the Y-chromosome.

It is principally a women's rights piece with token mention of effect on men/boys, highlighting male on female violence and not the reverse.

This thread does not serve the interests of men or equality, IMHO.

Dr Galen · 25-02-2010 04:29PM

unfortunately 60 years later it still gets hushed up and not spoken about. The work that Amnesty and other organisations do is to be applauded imho, but we all know that even as we're typing here, its going on and never getting reported

Delirium · 25-02-2010 04:31PM

That was difficult watching but parts of it did remind me of something from my teen years.

I'd grown up raised by my dad only, and generally any attitude towards women that he expressed was from that of missing his wife.

So, for my childhood/ early teens domestic violence would have be a blind-spot or something I wouldn't have thought of.

That was until a friend of mine opened up to me one day out of the blue. He went onto describe in great detail a series of beatings that his dad had given his mother.

And a lot of the feelings that Patrick Stewart mentioned were there in my friend. Feeling powerless to defend his mother and an unwillingness to villify his dad.

On top of that, his mother wouldn't leave the father 'because of the kids.'
This added additional feelings of 'she's enduring the beatings because of me' onto my friend.

But it definitely is in keeping with what was seen in the video, my friend was a mess of conflicting emotions when he was telling the story, and during the long chat we had after that.

Nevyn · 25-02-2010 04:40PM

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

Thaed, I'd like to pick up one point you made. You talk about how men talking about domestic abuse is important. About, how showing our distaste, objections, call it what you will, is going to be key to combatting it. I couldn't agree more with you on this. Its only by the good men among us, and lets be honest we're in the majority, standing up and saying that we find female domestic violence despicable, that we can have an effect.

I think it is something we all need to do about domestic violence and partner abuse regardless of the genders invovled.

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

In the way that we discuss our issues with racism, men need to stand up and call it like it is on the issue. Videos such as this, also go a long way, to show men of all ages, the effect that their violence has upon people. Maybe if this was more common, we'd see less of it, as people might, and i stress the word might, think twice before raising thier hand.

I think that male positive peer discussion on such issues are needed and can make a difference.

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

I'm not a violent person. I avoid physical confrontations. Without going into intricate detail, some of Patrick Stewart said in his piece strikes a chord with me personally, and forms the basis for my dislike of violence and such. It was/is something I can deal with but not everyone can do this. I think its important that help and support is given to men who live in fear of their temper and in fear of losing control. Its fair enough to castigate and shun those who do perpertrate violence in the home, but we should be talking about prevention. About helping guys deal with anger and control issues, so that violence doesn't become the outlet or the way to solve the argument.

I have a rotten temper, I do. I used to get in a fair amount of fights growing up as a teen, more then the average girl would, but it was still more acceptable for me to display a range of emotions and discuss them and figure out where my frustrations were coming from then boy/men are allowed or what is considered 'normal' the whole a real man says nothing and keeps it inside and just gets on with it does a lot of people a huge disservice, including male victims of partner abuse or any abuse.

Delirium · 25-02-2010 04:47PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

What is this thread doing on this board?

Listening to that rather painfully long speech, it really came down to domestic violence against women. Suggesting that it somehow demonstrated the "impact that domestic abuse has on boys/men" is a bit laughable as ultimately there is never any question in the lecture on who the perpetrator is, and it's the bloke with the Y-chromosome.

It is principally a women's rights piece with token mention of effect on men/boys, highlighting male on female violence and not the reverse.

This thread does not serve the interests of men or equality, IMHO.

What about the discussion of how a man that grew with that sort of nightmare unfolding in front of him as a child??

I can remember plenty of interviews growing up of daughters who grew up with domestic abuse happening to their mother, but never from a sons point of view.

That surely is an appropriate discussion for this forum??

The Corinthian · 25-02-2010 04:53PM

koth wrote: »

What about the discussion of how a man that grew with that sort of nightmare unfolding in front of him as a child??

Tokenism. Ultimately the message of any such speech, though such omission, is that men are perpetrators and women are not. We may sometimes be victims too, but it's self inflicted.

That surely is an appropriate discussion for this forum??

No. Send it to the Ladies Lounge. I don't believe it has any place here.

Nevyn · 25-02-2010 05:10PM

I tought that a man talking about his experience with domestic abuse and how in impacted on him, would be a fitting topic for the gentleman's club.

Boston · 25-02-2010 05:14PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

What is this thread doing on this board?

Listening to that rather painfully long speech, it really came down to domestic violence against women. Suggesting that it somehow demonstrated the "impact that domestic abuse has on boys/men" is a bit laughable as ultimately there is never any question in the lecture on who the perpetrator is, and it's the bloke with the Y-chromosome.

It is principally a women's rights piece with token mention of effect on men/boys, highlighting male on female violence and not the reverse.

This thread does not serve the interests of men or equality, IMHO.

Sounds like you made up your mind before you watched the video and then looked out for aspects which supported your position. The speech was more to do with the effect his father's violence had on him then anything else. It also touched on the problems faced by service men and how they tend to fall into a violent lifestyle once discharged.

No one is going to be able to give a personal account of domestic violence which encompasses all aspects of it. Your assertion is that they should be quiet otherwise.

Dr Galen · 25-02-2010 05:21PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

No. Send it to the Ladies Lounge. I don't believe it has any place here.

Fortunately for this thread, I disagree.

The Corinthian · 25-02-2010 05:23PM

Thaedydal wrote: »

I tought that a man talking about his experience with domestic abuse and how in impacted on him, would be a fitting topic for the gentleman's club.

It would be if it involved female on male violence. But it didn't because that does not exist.

Boston wrote: »

Sounds like you made up your mind before you watched the video and then looked out for aspects which supported your position. The speech was more to do with the effect his father's violence had on him then anything else. It also touched on the problems faced by service men and how they tend to fall into a violent lifestyle once discharged.

No, I made up my mind about half way through, when it became evident that "men are the perpetrators" was the message, regardless of whether they can be victims too.

This is a serious problem in that there is frankly nothing being said about women being perpetrators of violence and so even well meaning speeches like this end up reinforcing this stereotype.

No one is going to be able to give a personal account of domestic violence which encompasses all aspects of it. Your assertion is that they should be quiet otherwise.

No, my assertion is that on this board men's issues should be specifically addressed. Not women's issues with some men's issues tokenism.

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

Fortunately for this thread, I disagree.

Can you articulate or just a ruling?

Dr Galen · 25-02-2010 05:35PM

i'm fairly sure that I have already articulated my views on the video and the subject in previous posts. I disagree with your sentiments that this is an issue that shouldn't be discussed here.

Calling it a ruling sounds too negative to me. Lets call it a mod guidance and as a second mod guidance, anyone who disagrees and would like to take it further should consult the forum charter regarding mod decisions etc etc

The Corinthian · 25-02-2010 05:55PM

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

i'm fairly sure that I have already articulated my views on the video and the subject in previous posts. I disagree with your sentiments that this is an issue that shouldn't be discussed here.

I didn't ask for your views on the subject, I asked for your views on my objections and you have not given those. "I disagree" is not a view, it's a ruling... sorry, I mean 'guidance'.

Boston · 25-02-2010 05:57PM

Stop behaving like a child.

r3nu4l · 25-02-2010 06:21PM

Boston wrote: »

Stop behaving like a child.

Stop throwing insults around

Dr Galen · 25-02-2010 06:26PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

I didn't ask for your views on the subject, I asked for your views on my objections and you have not given those. "I disagree" is not a view, it's a ruling... sorry, I mean 'guidance'.

by reading my posts, I would have thought it was clear where our thinking diverges, and thus, why I'm of the opinion this thread has a home here.

You have been here long enough to know that arguing a Moderators decision in thread isn't on. I specifically referred posters to the charter in my previous post as to how to go about registering their disapproval with a decision. I'm not sure what part of that you didn't get? (thats a rhetorical question btw, I don't need an answer)

Patrick Stewart speaks about domestic voilence for Amnesty International.

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