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Fingalian

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  • 26-02-2010 5:08pm
    #1
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭


    I never new there was a language for the region until I read in The History of Baldoyle book the other day. Not much about it on Wiki. Has anyone ever heard of it?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingalian


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    #2
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Slipped off the 2nd page, better post something so it doesn't go under :pac:

    According to Wiki it is similar to Yola, a language spoken in Wexford

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yola_language

    It's mad looking, and it seems to have completely died out in the last 100+ years. Maybe there are still a few traces of it in Wexford dialect. Pity there is no translation for Fingalian in Wiki.


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    #3
    neil_hosey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭neil_hosey


    thats very interesting. Wonder if its still spoken by anyone, maybe the older generation, it appears to be more of a dialect of english then a language no? bit like that ulsters-scottish they 'attempt' to classify as a language in Northern Ireland.


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    #4
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    I've been asking about this since your original post and haven't come across anything yet, hopefully we'll get some interest going for you.

    **To the lads who thought it good craic to post smark comments, I've better things to be doing with my time than cleaning up your crap. You know who you are, do it again in this thread and I'll ban you for one month**.


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    #5
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,313 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    neil_hosey wrote: »
    bit like that ulsters-scottish they 'attempt' to classify as a language in Northern Ireland.
    Its not "Ulsters-scottish", it is Ulster-Scots which is a variant of Scots, the language of Robbie Burns.


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    #6
    neil_hosey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭neil_hosey


    Victor wrote: »
    Its not "Ulsters-scottish", it is Ulster-Scots which is a variant of Scots, the language of Robbie Burns.

    well you know what i meant. After having heard this spoken and seen text of it. Its practically english with a strong scottish accent...

    theres no official standing on distinguishing between a language and a dialect, sure i speak dublinese ;)

    Although, when i was in finland, i had a woman try and tell me that irish was just a dialect of english. silly fins.


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    #7
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    neil_hosey wrote: »
    Although, when i was in finland, i had a woman try and tell me that irish was just a dialect of english. silly fins.

    Should have told her Finnish is just a dialect of Swedish :pac:

    What's interesting about Fingalian is that it is descended from German and middle English from the Normans. Now I don't know much about history, but didn't the Normans speak French? Or would it have gotten mixed in with Anglo Saxon?


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    #8
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    WindSock wrote: »
    The History of Baldoyle book
    A bestseller list candidate if ever there was one...


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    #9
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    The author is a neighbour of mine.
    I could ask him for more info if ye haven't been in touch with him already.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #10
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,313 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    WindSock wrote: »
    Should have told her Finnish is just a dialect of Swedish :pac:

    What's interesting about Fingalian is that it is descended from German and middle English from the Normans. Now I don't know much about history, but didn't the Normans speak French? Or would it have gotten mixed in with Anglo Saxon?
    The Normans from Normandy would have spoken contemporary French, but remember the invasion of Ireland happened about 100 years later, but which times the German influence from the native English would have had a strong effect.

    Modern English is descended from both French and German influences (and Americanisms :pac:).


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    #11
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    me and windsock were talking about this at the beers on friday, it makes me wonder how many other extinct languages there are around ireland


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    #12
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Don't know much about origins of Traveller languages. Gamma /Shelta /Pavee.

    I wonder if any of them contain any old dialects?


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    #13
    baalthor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭baalthor


    Here is a Yola zong from this page ...
    Fade teil thee zo lournagh, co Joane, zo knaggee?
    Th' weithest all curcagh, wafur, an cornee.
    Lidge w'ouse an a milagh, tis gaay an louthee:
    Huck nigher; y'art scuddeen; fartoo zo hachee?

    Well, gosp, c'hull be zeid; mot thee fartoo, an fade;
    Ha deight ouse var gabble, tell ee zin go t'glade.
    Ch'am a stouk, an a donel; wou'll leigh out ee dey.
    Th' valler w'speen here, th' lass ee chourch-hey.

    Yerstey w'had a baree, gist ing oor hoane,
    Aar gentrize ware bibbern, aamzil cou no stoane.
    Yith Muzleare had ba hole, t'was mee Tommeen,
    At by mizluck was ee-pit t'drive in.

    Joud an moud vrem earchee ete was ee Lough.
    Zitch vaperreen, an shimmereen, fan ee-daf ee aar scoth!
    Zitch blakeen, an blayeen, fan ee ball was ee-drowe!
    Chote well aar aim was t'yie ouz n'eer a blowe.

    Mot w'all aar boust, hi soon was ee-teight
    At aar errone was var ameing 'ar 'ngish ee-height.
    Zitch vezzeen, tarvizzeen, 'tell than w'ne'er zey.
    Nore zichel ne'er well, nowe, nore ne'er mey.
    If there is any record of Fingalian it's not on the Internet but both languages were always assumed to be similar.

    I also posted on the other thread in History and Heritage.


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    #14
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Hermy wrote: »
    The author is a neighbour of mine.
    I could ask him for more info if ye haven't been in touch with him already.

    That'd be great, maybe he could post in this thread if he wants too?

    From the website link from baalthor:


    The Yola language is a branch of Middle English that evolved separately among the English who followed the Norman barons Strongbow and Robert Fitzstephens to eastern Ireland in 1169. They became concentrated mainly in County Wexford. Because these "Normans" more freely adopted elements of Irish culture, they were ostracized in England as "more Irish than the Irish themselves".

    Their language, later called "Yola" from their word for "old", evolved separately from the mainstream of English. It was mainly spoken in the baronies of Forth and Bargy, two of the seven baronies of Wexford. In the centuries before the Flight of the Earls, most Yola speakers gradually abandoned their language and adopted Irish Gaelic and fully assimilated as ethnic Gaels, but a handful of speakers survived in County Wexford until Yola became extinct in the 19th century.


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