Solid Oak windows : Maintenance nightmare?

sas · 02-03-2010 2:04pm #1

Hi,

Looking at solid oak windows from an Austrian manufacturer. Very nice product.

Am considering these over Aluclad. The reason being that this manufacturer cannot supply an aluclad sliding door for some reason. The aluclad pine\spruce (not sure which timber) is the same price approx. as non aluclad oak. I could go with the aluclad and get the slider sprayed the colour of the aluclad. However, I am concerned about having a softwood slider and how long would it last.

I've exhausted the list of window suppliers with suitable products so I will likely choose one of these options.

In our climate am I asking for trouble with the Oak? I've seen references in other threads about timber windows lasting very well as long as they are well maintained.

What sort of maintenance am I looking at? House is in Laois so not a high exposure zone.

The windows are treated using products from www.sikkens.co.uk who I am told are highly respected. Does this make any difference?

Any and all advice appreciated.

Note: I received explicit permission from the mods to reference www.sikkens.co.uk before I posted about them.

sinnerboy · 02-03-2010 2:57pm

My only experience of using oak externally is one I regretted . I used it for external handrailing over a toughened glass balcony gaurding . Within a few months it had cracked and split badly . Changed it for teak - no problems after that .

Maybe a call to sikkens would help ?

On a tangential note about 8 years ago I was looking at using Austrian windows ( alu clad ) . To their credit they raised the issue of proximity to the sea ( not a problem in Laois - my site was in Dun Laoghaire ) as they were unsure that the alloys used in their hinges and stays could withstand a marine environment . Never did use them in the end so never got to the bottom of it .

justflow1983 · 02-03-2010 6:00pm

I would prefer the softwood myself. Oak is not a particularly nice wood to use for small items, it cracks a lot and is brittle if allowed to dry out (even in Ireland it could happen). I've made furniture with it several times and have always kicked myself for not using something more forgiving.

The softwood windows, if properly treated, shouldn't have any disadvantages over the oak. Even the Aluclad wouldn't be hugely better if you're not in an exposed location.

In using most hardwoods for exterior applications keep in mind that it is only the heartwood of these trees which is more robust than softwood for exterior applications. Since I doubt you can be sure they will use that part of the tree (it isn't separated out in milling) then I would just use a treated softwood.

The only hardwoods that can resist exterior conditions with no treatments, such as ipe, tigerwood, and brazilian redwood, come from tropical locations and usually unsustainable/questionable sources. Using them contributes to deforestation and environmental degradation overseas and should be frowned upon.

sas · 03-03-2010 12:21pm

justflow1983 wrote: »

The softwood windows, if properly treated, shouldn't have any disadvantages over the oak. Even the Aluclad wouldn't be hugely better if you're not in an exposed location.

Well you learn something new everyday.

Aluclad wouldn't require any painting\staining however...

Thanks

SAS

justflow1983 · 03-03-2010 12:41pm

Its true the aluclad needs less maintenance. Timber windows would need treatment every 5 years or so.

I actually think that the regular maintenance is a good thing, it allows you to better monitor the condition of your windows and see how they're doing. A little bit of surface damage can be sanded off and the timber re-treated. Timber windows last for years, I personally have worked on projects that included restoring original windows from the 1700s.

My concern, maybe unfounded, with Aluclad windows is that the aluminium protection also keeps you from being able to see the condition of the wood underneath. If the cladding isn't draining properly you could end up with rotting wood that you can't see until its too late.

sas · 03-03-2010 2:22pm

justflow1983 wrote: »

My concern, maybe unfounded, with Aluclad windows is that the aluminium protection also keeps you from being able to see the condition of the wood underneath. If the cladding isn't draining properly you could end up with rotting wood that you can't see until its too late.

Fair point. However, there will always be parts of the window that aren't visible\accessible so there is always this risk to a greater or lesser extent.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

S.L.F · 03-03-2010 5:30pm

justflow1983 wrote: »

Its true the aluclad needs less maintenance. Timber windows would need treatment every 5 years or so.

I actually think that the regular maintenance is a good thing, it allows you to better monitor the condition of your windows and see how they're doing. A little bit of surface damage can be sanded off and the timber re-treated. Timber windows last for years, I personally have worked on projects that included restoring original windows from the 1700s.

My concern, maybe unfounded, with Aluclad windows is that the aluminium protection also keeps you from being able to see the condition of the wood underneath. If the cladding isn't draining properly you could end up with rotting wood that you can't see until its too late.

Plus aluclad windows are a relatively new product there's no telling what could hapen in 5, 10 or 40 years whereas with wood if it is seasoned properly and maintained it should outlast all others.

sas · 08-03-2010 3:37pm

What Timbers are better suited to windows if Oak isn't?

Is Larch better?

justflow1983 · 08-03-2010 3:43pm

We generally specify swedish pine but it usually ends up being up to the supplier. We're more concerned with getting windows with a long warranty as it's usually an indication of quality.

sas · 08-03-2010 4:40pm

justflow1983 wrote: »

We generally specify swedish pine but it usually ends up being up to the supplier. We're more concerned with getting windows with a long warranty as it's usually an indication of quality.

Thanks, I've clarified with the supplier that my options are Pine, Spruce, Oak, Larch and Meranti.

How long is a long warranty in your opinion?

SAS

paddy147 · 08-03-2010 9:10pm

How much do you like sanding and varnishing all the windows several times over every year to 18 months or so?

justflow1983 · 09-03-2010 11:56am

paddy147 wrote: »

How much do you like sanding and varnishing all the windows several times over every year to 18 months or so?

That is completely bogus. Several times a year? Several times a decade maybe, since you'll have to do routine maintenance every few years... on the upside if you do it they'll last pretty much forever. My parents have a cabin in Lake Placid in the states which has much harsher weather than Ireland... the windows are over 100 years old and they get sanded/painted every 10 years or so.

SAS- On projects we've done with Premierebond, they expect a 10-year warranty and most companies who stand by their work will extend their warranties to meet it. One company I've used a few times have no problem with this. German/scandanavian companies generally give standard 5-year warranties but will also extend on request. A couple of reputable irish companies will give 6+ years as well. Definitely look for 5 years or more and see if they're willing to extend it; since a good timber window will last they'll be willing to stand over it.

justflow1983 · 09-03-2010 12:02pm

sas wrote: »

Thanks, I've clarified with the supplier that my options are Pine, Spruce, Oak, Larch and Meranti.

How long is a long warranty in your opinion?

SAS

Pine, Spruce and Larch are all robust options from relatively fast growing trees that are usually farmed.

Oak is from a slow growing tree, and is brittle when dry. It is not a sustainable solution and probably not a good one for performance either. Use oak and other hardwoods judiciously as the trees need to grow for 100+ years before harvest.

Meranti is a tropical hardwood. For ethical reasons (deforestation, lack of sustainable sources, dangerous harvesting conditions, timber theiving) it should not be used.

ki · 09-03-2010 12:05pm

It might help to talk to these guys are the seem fairly close to you.
and do sliding sash windows

http://www.careyglassjoinery.com/

paddy147 · 09-03-2010 9:16pm

justflow1983 wrote: »

That is completely bogus. Several times a year? Several times a decade maybe, since you'll have to do routine maintenance every few years... on the upside if you do it they'll last pretty much forever. My parents have a cabin in Lake Placid in the states which has much harsher weather than Ireland... the windows are over 100 years old and they get sanded/painted every 10 years or so.

SAS- On projects we've done with Premierebond, they expect a 10-year warranty and most companies who stand by their work will extend their warranties to meet it. One company I've used a few times have no problem with this. German/scandanavian companies generally give standard 5-year warranties but will also extend on request. A couple of reputable irish companies will give 6+ years as well. Definitely look for 5 years or more and see if they're willing to extend it; since a good timber window will last they'll be willing to stand over it.

Appoligies,I meant to type several windows,as in windows in the house.And not several times a year.

Sorry about that.

Solid Oak windows : Maintenance nightmare?

Comments