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Open Street Map expansion project

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  • 22-05-2010 12:24pm
    #1
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭


    http://www.openstreetmap.org/

    Is there anything that the Infrastructure forum can do to help with this? I wouldn't be opposed to a special OSM thread for each county if necessary, where mappers can post requests for trace uploads, road numbers, etc.

    This seems a good time to launch a special OSM thread, since readership will rocket towards the end of the week with the opening of the M7/M8 and the M3 a week later. It's a good time to promote the site on boards, methinks.

    So, if the OSM mappers (Chris, Mackerski, larryone et al) would like to tell us how this forum can assist with expanding OSM's Irish coverage, we'll see what we can do.
    Tagged:


«134567…13

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    #2
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Alot of the roads around where I live are not mapped on OSM, I have a Garmin Nuvi 265W. If someone could explain to me how to capture the route and then upload it I would happily be able to add anything up to 50kms of currently unmapped road over the next month!


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    #3
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    I'm a minor OSM contributer. I find that outside the Dublin region, the yahoo imagery available is too blurry to map. As a result, as the above poster noted, it's difficult to map outside major cities.


    EDIT:
    Also, Furet, I'd think that because the OSM community is small, one thread for all OSM-related stuff would suffice. Maybe make a sticky of it down the line?


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    #4
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    A sticky is envisaged. I've been getting a lot of PMs about OSM, so I just reckon this thread can serve as a clearing house and maybe attract new users, or existing OSM users who mightn't already be familiar with this forum. Either way, I think it's a good thing to have.


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    #5
    nordydan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭nordydan


    I would happily export south/mid Down from a Garmin nuvi 200w but I don't know how. I updated the software on the unit and it doesn't seem to trace anymore!


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    #6
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Furet wrote: »
    http://www.openstreetmap.org/

    Is there anything that the Infrastructure forum can do to help with this? I wouldn't be opposed to a special OSM thread for each county if necessary, where mappers can post requests for trace uploads, road numbers, etc.

    RATHER than have a roads sub forum there should be a Collective Mapping sub forum where all sorts of infrastructure mapping can be discussed and implemented not just roads.


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    #7
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Trouble is that forum would be more or less dead I reckon :( Having it in here lets everyone see it without that extra few clicks.


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    #8
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    So this afternoon with nothing else to do I figured out how to get my Garmin Nuvi to trace routes and drove for ten minutes on an side road that is unmapped by OSM and have now converted the trace file to .gpx and am getting ready to upload! I had to pull in to let a tractor pass and another car but having compared my trace to other maps I can say that OSM is the most accurate out there!


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    #9
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    Trouble is that forum would be more or less dead I reckon :( Having it in here lets everyone see it without that extra few clicks.

    Shoehorn in a few tutorials on GPX traces etc early in the thread and sticky it so.


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    #10
    NedNew2
    Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭NedNew2


    As Sponge Bob suggests, a few tutorials or links to same would be great help. I bought a Garmin Nuvi 1300 and I've no idea yet how to upload updates/OSM maps to it or how to trace.

    I'm sure there would be a new wave of enthusiasts once we get over the learning curve.


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    #11
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    NedNew2 wrote: »
    As Sponge Bob suggests, a few tutorials or links to same would be great help.

    You need this program to prepare the data Ned

    http://www.gpsbabel.org/

    Some tutorials on their website , you need to produce a GPX file for upload to OSM. OSM will also allow public footpaths and untarred boreens to be entered ( if flagged properly) so maybe start with a small one of them rather than a motorway :D

    http://www.gpsbabel.org/tips/

    Then create username on Open Street Map.

    And see the video tutorials in the OSM wiki

    http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Video_tutorials


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    #12
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Yesterday I went from knowing nothing at all about OSM or sat-nav tracking to capturing a route and posting it to OSM.

    Having a Garmin Nuvi myself, I found this guide extremely helpful as it showed me how to capture the track using the hidden menu accessed via the combination of finger taps. The raw track capture from the satnav must then be converted to the .gpx standard because of all the various format by the different manufacturers and OSM only accepts .gpx files. Converting is easy and no software is even required as it can be done online.

    Useful links to help build the eventual sticky.

    http://www.gpspassion.com/upload2/HiddenTrackLogHowTo.pdf

    http://www.gpsvisualizer.com

    http://www.anpo.republika.pl/download.html#nutrak
    a free piece of software to convert the gps.bin files into .gpx files if you dont want to use gpsvisualizer to convert them online, the site is in Polish but the software installs in English. Use Google translator to translate the site.

    http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page
    OSM Wiki, tonnes of info in there


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    #13
    GeneHunt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    Great idea for a tread, Furet.

    I started mapping on the OSM last year, firstly you need to register with OSM and read the Beginners’ Guide, This is a good place for a beginner to start.

    I tend not to upload the .gpx file from my Garmin unit to OSM site, I instead use the Java OpenStreetMap Editor (JOSM) (which is one of many types of software you can download to edit OSM) and I open my .gpx file with JOSM, zoom in the area where you have traced (drove/walked with your GPS unit) then download the backround map for that zoomed area from OSM (which is very easy). Then trace you way along the new route and then upload that area back onto OSM, I then go to OSM site itself and do the final editing there, like added the road name or reference, etc. However, I think a broadband connect is necessary.

    If some folk out there don’t want to be mappers, but would like to upload their routes, that’s great, but how would this best work? Because, if someone uploads a route to OSM it could be days, weeks or even months before a mapper traces the route on OSM.

    Maybe could this work – someone uploads their route on OSM and that post a post here with a link to the location on OSM. However that could lead to two mappers trying to trace the same route at the same time, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.


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    #14
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    JOSM is too advanced for starters , fabulous for Metadata.....eg a road can have an official name/slang name/irish name/designation such as L29168 and also LT29168 townland etc etc

    But first get the basic traces up there , metadata can be added later with JOSM

    Good time of year to do footpaths for hillwalkers too...not every road needs to be driven.


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    #15
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    The basic Potlatch editor would be fine for 90% of OSMers.

    But its not just the regions of the country without coverage that's needed. Go out to the area round your house and map absolutely everything. Shops, petrol stations, pubs, electricity lines, EVERYTHING that can be digitised to OSM. Compared to the quality of the coverage in say, Munich, even OSM in Dublin is lacking.


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    #16
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,932 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Someone's already done my local area obsessively.

    However from memory there is absolutely nothing on the island back home, might see if I can get it in the can in a day when I'm there in two weeks.


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    #17
    johnbk
    Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭johnbk


    I have used Trails app on iphone for some roads in the Kilkenny area and successfully added them to OSM.

    Is the iphone accurate enough for OSM?

    Also, can I trace over aerial pictures that are on the Kilkenny co co website or the OSI website and cross check them with my iphone journeys before adding them to OSM?

    Finally, I have some autocad maps with roads on them, can I trace over these (The have co-ordinates) and add them to OSM?

    PS. I think that alot of people will be interested is this topic.

    My views are my own.



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    #18
    Harps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭Harps


    MYOB wrote: »
    Someone's already done my local area obsessively.

    However from memory there is absolutely nothing on the island back home, might see if I can get it in the can in a day when I'm there in two weeks.

    Theres nothing on the island at all aside from place names, could give you a hand if I had a good idea how its done.

    The whole of Donegal is empty for that matter aside from N and R roads, even Letterkenny has very little coverage


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    #19
    larryone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭larryone


    My start with OSM was with JOSM editor.
    I pulled traces off a GPS device, opened them in JOSM, and went right at it.
    I found it fine for beginners, and I'm not fond of Potlatch at all.
    You dont need gpsbsbel to convert traces to any different format, you dont need to upload your traces to OSM, and I found it intuitive anough to use.

    All credit to Furet for starting this thread =0)


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    #20
    mackerski
    Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭mackerski


    It's great to see interest picking up in OSM, and I absolutely agree that the kind of people we have here on the forum can contribute strongly to the project.

    On the question of whether iphones (or other smartphones) are up to the task of logging, I'd have to say that their GPS chipsets are generally a lot less accurate than "real" (meaning higher power-consumption) ones, but if it's the difference between having a road mapped or not mapped, I'd say "go for it". Remember that a coarsely mapped road can always be cleaned up later.

    Folks who have devices that were built to log should ideally configure them to log one point per second. That way, important curve detail, ramps and roundabouts will be logged in a usable fashion. On roundabouts, even though it looks very odd, you should ideally drive a full 360 so that the true shape and size emerges in the trace.

    I do have a strong warning about Garmin Nuvis and other devices that have pre-loaded maps. Keep in mind that, in contributing to OSM, you have to avoid taking data from copyrighted sources. This includes, for instance, not copying road names from Google maps or other sat nav devices (they are often incorrect anyway). But it also means that we may not trace existing commercial maps.

    The snag: Many GPS devices that have routable maps can be configured to "snap" your measured position to a mapped road (often called "lock on road"). They do this to assist in areas of poor coverage - the reasoning is that if you are driving a car, you are probably on the road rather than 10m into the field alongside it. The huge snag: car-oriented devices like the Nuvi often don't allow this mode to be disabled. So if you drive along, say, the M7 with lock-on-road enabled, your trace and the resulting OSM data will match absolutely the commercial map data you already have on your device. This is bad for data quality (our driven surveys usually produce more precise maps than the commercial stuff) and it taints the OSM data in a way that could require large areas of the map to be deleted in response to a legal challenge.

    So if you have a device where this is likely to be a problem, please experiment. A good test is to drive along a road that is mapped on your device, then turn into a side road. If your trace shows you remaining on the main road for a while, then suddenly jumping some distance onto the side road, then you suffer from the problem. On Garmin devices, a good solution may be to disable the built-in map altogether, which you can do under settings.

    Ask here on this thread if you need more tips on this - I'd love to see more of you helping to fill the gaps.


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    #21
    ceret
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭ceret


    I'm an OSM fan and I gotta say, I like Potlatch. You can do (just about) everything in Potlatch that you can do in JOSM. Use whatever you work best with. JOSM can be handy cause you work off local GPS traces, and just draw away. If you wanna add simple things (there's a pub here, this road is called this), then potlatch can be quick and easy.


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    #22
    GeneHunt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    ceret wrote: »
    I'm an OSM fan and I gotta say, I like Potlatch. You can do (just about) everything in Potlatch that you can do in JOSM. Use whatever you work best with. JOSM can be handy cause you work off local GPS traces, and just draw away. If you wanna add simple things (there's a pub here, this road is called this), then potlatch can be quick and easy.

    +1:)


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    #23
    undo
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭undo


    If anyone has ever taken a ferry into or out of Dublin and would like to contribute their knowledge to OpenStreetMap, I recently started this thread to ask for such info. I can do all the mapping - I just need to know which road connects to which, what is a one-way and so on...

    Also, if anyone wants to starts mapping and would like a quick crash course in central Dublin, I live in D1 and would be happy to help get new mappers started. Just PM me.


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    #24
    radagast
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭radagast


    If anyone is in the north tipperary or adjacent areas and would similarly like a crash course in OSM please contact me privately as 'radagast' here or as 'kenguest' on osm.org and I'll try to help.


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    #25
    royan
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭royan


    We also have occasional meetups/mapping parties - you just barely missed one last Wednesday.

    The online editor (Potlatch) is as others have said great for 90% of the basic work, and you can upload your traces and work off those; don't feel you have to move to JOSM or any other editor in a hurry. It does have rather more features, plugins etc, and is way faster interactively once you've downloaded a chunk of map data, but of course you have to learn a new interface.

    Remember you don't have to do everything - if you can trace some accurate new roads from gps but don't know the names, someone else who has no gps can tag those later.

    Another tool worth noting from the start is the data browser - part of the OSM site, this lets you review the submitted changesets and their nodes and ways, the tags.on those, and the change history. e.g. http://www.osm.org/browse/way/60009458 which I left "unknown" hoping that someone can fill it in (or that next time I'll spy a hidden overgrown sign...)


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    #26
    Jomcc
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Jomcc


    Stinicker wrote: »
    Yesterday I went from knowing nothing at all about OSM or sat-nav tracking to capturing a route and posting it to OSM.

    After reading this thread, I tried playing with openstreetmap last night. I uploaded a small road close to where I live and all seemed to go well. Does it take long to become visible on the map?
    I've saved all of my tracks from my Garmin Zumo over past 2 years so I would have a huge amount of data that I could upload. If my first one works ok, I could see this becoming an almost obsessive hobby.


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    #27
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    You may not have saved or 'committed' the data at the end. It should appear straight away once you do ( sometime you need to zoom in a bit to see "tertiary" roads which is what is missing from OSM in Ireland. The primary ( N) and secondary (R) roads are up there already.


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    #28
    GeneHunt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    Has anyone found a good place for downloading OSM maps (.img file), here's where I'm currently getting my maps or here too. I've used others sites for OSM maps, but they caused my Garmin to take an age to calculate a route.

    Anyway the reason for asking is before I used the OSM maps my Garmin (Nuvi 760) would show the max speed on the LHS of the screen, so has anyone found a site with OSM maps with max speed included or is this an impossible dream to have max speed showing from OSM maps on my Garmin? Do the newer Garmin's do it maybe?

    PS Is there any way to get OSM maps for a TomTom? (a friend of mine is looking for his TomTom)


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    #29
    Jomcc
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Jomcc


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    You may not have saved or 'committed' the data at the end. It should appear straight away once you do ( sometime you need to zoom in a bit to see "tertiary" roads which is what is missing from OSM in Ireland. The primary ( N) and secondary (R) roads are up there already.

    Thanks for that.........if I were to PM you the link to the info, would you know it it looks correct or not?


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    #30
    mackerski
    Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭mackerski


    GeneHunt wrote: »
    Has anyone found a good place for downloading OSM maps (.img file)

    Try http://andrewmccarthy.ie/osm/

    These maps are generated daily.
    GeneHunt wrote: »
    Anyway the reason for asking is before I used the OSM maps my Garmin (Nuvi 760) would show the max speed on the LHS of the screen, so has anyone found a site with OSM maps with max speed included or is this an impossible dream to have max speed showing from OSM maps on my Garmin? Do the newer Garmin's do it maybe?

    My Nuvi is capable of displaying speed limits and does so for Garmin's own maps. My OSM maps don't display the limits. Mkgmap (the tool we use to make Garmin maps) does use the maxspeed tag in OSM, but may not know how to encode it in such a way that the limit will display. Keep in mind that Garmin does not publish its map file format and that what we use is the result of reverse-engineering.

    Another possibility is that the speed limit display is only available the newer NT format maps. NT format is not currently understood at all. So don't expect to see this any time soon.

    Users should also note that, depending on your Garmin device, address search will either not work at all or will be hit and miss. Cracking this problem is a priority for the developers of mkgmap, but it's taking a while. You can use the maps for routing, but you may have to point to your destination on the map.
    GeneHunt wrote: »
    PS Is there any way to get OSM maps for a TomTom? (a friend of mine is looking for his TomTom)

    Not in the way you'd probably hope - the map format is proprietary and not yet reverse-engineered. But the hardware could theoretically be cannibalised, more here.


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    #31
    mackerski
    Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭mackerski


    Jomcc wrote: »
    Thanks for that.........if I were to PM you the link to the info, would you know it it looks correct or not?

    If you PM me your OSM username I can check your edits and see if things look reasonable. All edits for a user are visible under a link like this (mine):

    http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mackerski/edits


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