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Irish want stronger European economic governance

  • 26-08-2010 05:19PM
    #1
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭


    Irish public opinion has shifted sharply in favour of stronger EU economic governance, according to Eurobarometer poll results published today. Along with the Finns, Ireland showed a 13% rise in those who want stronger European measures and coordination to combat the economic crisis, with a total of 77% in favour.

    When asked how they felt about the national economic situation, 95% of Irish people polled think things are very or rather bad – as compared to an EU average of 77%. The most pessimistic of all are the Greeks (98%) and the Hungarians (96%). When asked about the national employment situation, 97% of Irish people polled were pessimistic, third most gloomy in the EU, behind the Greeks and the Spanish. The overall EU average was 83%. On the other hand, the Swedes are the least pessimistic about their national economy in the EU, at 26%.

    Even while remaining bleak about the economy, Irish people polled were becoming more positive about the next 12 months - almost a quarter believe things will improve, a rise of 7 points on the previous Eurobarometer poll. And there was a fall in numbers who thought that things would get worse, down 17 points to 37%.

    On the more classic Eurobarometer questions regarding support for the EU and its institutions, Ireland continues to show strong support, with 66% believing that EU membership is a good thing, although this is down 6% from autumn 2009. The most positive are Luxembourgers at 70% followed by the Dutch at 69% and then Ireland and Denmark at 66%. The EU average for this question is 49%.

    On other matters, a high proportion (72%) of Irish respondents believe that support for research and development policies is important (EU average 59%).

    Ireland was in second place with 66% for agreeing that it was important to strengthen the e-economy by developing ultra-fast broadband in the EU. The EU average was 46%.

    The 'Standard' Eurobarometer is carried out every 6 months. In Ireland, approximately 1000 face to face interviews were conducted in May 2010. The previous poll, which it is compared with, was conducted in October 2009.

    More summary results and tables here

    Interesting - note that "governance" is not the same as "government". That is, the majority are not looking for the EU to determine the Irish budget, but to set ground rules and oversight on the Irish government's setting of the budget. The details:

    1. EU Member States should work together more in order to take measures to combat the financial and economic crisis: Yes 86%, No 8% all EU / Yes 80%, No 13% Ireland

    2. Whether stronger coordination of economic and financial policies among all the EU Member States would be effective or not to combat the current crisis: Yes 75%, No 14% / Yes 77%, No 9% Ireland

    3. Whether the surveillance and supervision by the EU of the activities of the most important international financial groups would be effective or not to combat the current crisis: Yes 73%, No 16% Ireland

    Those are very strong figures in favour of "EU interference" in our budget-setting process. I wonder what the figures would have been like in, say, 2002?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


«13

Comments

  • #2
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    How times have changed, considering the difficulty with the Lisbon treaty.

    I for one, would give Europe as much power as possible.


  • #3
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    I despair, I really do. To get the people to vote yes for lisbon, we were told a lie that the treaty would create jobs.

    Now the public believe that closer governance by eu commissioners will lift us out of our economic crisis. :rolleyes:


  • #4
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    I despair, I really do. To get the people to vote yes for lisbon, we were told a lie that the treaty would create jobs.

    Now the public believe that closer governance by eu commissioners will lift us out of our economic crisis. :rolleyes:

    Few believed that the treaty would create jobs, that's not what the treaty was about at all.
    Few also believe that EU commissioners will lift us out of our economic crisis, however, they may not get us into 1 so deep so quickly.


  • #5
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #6
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I for one welcome our new European overlords


    KentBrockmanHailAnts_bigger.jpg


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  • #7
    RealityCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭RealityCheck


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Your dead right the horse has already bolted.

    Its surely unlikely we would be stupid enough to make the same mistakes again, in the unlikely event our economy recovers some time this century.

    However, I feel that once the bond markets have seen through us and leave us to the wolves, it will be the EU/IMF that will be left to bail us out (to a degree). It will be the EU and IMF that will be pulling the strings here, whether to our benefit or not.


  • #8
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    RealityCheck wrote: »
    Its surely unlikely we would be stupid enough to make the same mistakes again, in the unlikely event our economy recovers some time this century.

    .

    Want to bet? :)


  • #9
    RealityCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭RealityCheck


    liammur wrote: »
    Want to bet? :)

    I suppose it would'nt be the first time alright :o.


  • #10
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    This is bulls**t to be quite honest. Just another way for the heads in the EU to try to convince the Irish people how much we need them. At least Hitler used the military when he tried to take over Europe. We could see what was coming.

    I guess it's true what they say, the pen is far mightier than the sword.

    Anyone else think it's strange that the ECB is just a reincarnation of the Bundesbank which is in turn a reincarnation of the Reichsbank? Makes me wonder who really won WWII.


  • #11
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    demonspawn wrote: »
    This is bulls**t to be quite honest. Just another way for the heads in the EU to try to convince the Irish people how much we need them. At least Hitler used the military when he tried to take over Europe. We could see what was coming.

    I guess it's true what they say, the pen is far mightier than the sword.

    Anyone else think it's strange that the ECB is just a reincarnation of the Bundesbank which is in turn a reincarnation of the Reichsbank? Makes me wonder who really won WWII.

    Save the Fourth Reich stuff for the Conspiracy Theories forum, thanks. This is a Politics discussion, not "the EU ate my hamster".

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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  • #12
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    Ok, will this new "governance" give the EU the power to investigate corruption of public officials and bank officials? Will they then have the power to convict and sentence these people?

    That's the only power I'd give the EU.


  • #13
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    Also requesting the title of this thread be changed to "Polls indicate Irish want blah blah". It's incredibly misleading and raises questions as to the motives of posting such a thread.

    We all know polls can be incredibly biased.


  • #14
    Anonymous1987
    Closed Accounts Posts: 784 ✭✭✭Anonymous1987


    We want EU economic governance now but will they feel the same when circumstances change? The idea of budget rules sounds good in principle but do we need the EU for this? can we not just enforce it on ourselves or do we need an "outside" enforcer?


  • #15
    Lukker-
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,405 ✭✭✭Lukker-


    Shows how little we trust our government these days when we feel safer with the real power in Brussels.


  • #16
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    ... This is a Politics discussion, not "the EU ate my hamster"....

    So where's my hamster gone, then?


  • #17
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    I don't see any great distinction between government and governance. The first is the institution (the government) and the second is the activity carried out by that institution, but in ordinary language the terms can be used interchangeably.

    It is fairly understandable that there might be a desire for more government/governance at the EU level given the crisis we're in and the Government's inability to tackle the bloated public sector and the various vested interests that dominate the country. I think people feel that literally anything but the current arrangement is to be welcomed.

    However it is important to understand the implications. Decisions made at the EU level are going to be made for the good of the EU and not necessarily for the good of very small regions such as Ireland.

    A point was made by someone (BetterLisbon I think) on the EU forum recently regarding our corporation tax. What happens if there's objections from France and Germany that Ireland's corporation tax is unfair. It might be genuinely for the good of Europe that the sort of inward investment enjoyed by Ireland is spread around the rest of Europe but are we in Ireland prepared for decision making on this basis? Whatever agreements we might have obtained with regard to corporation tax will be rendered irrelevant. And, moreover, the above is assuming that decisions will be made for the good of the EU and not for the good of powerful members of the EU.


  • #18
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    I would like to see a good debate re the pro's and con's of this so called silver bullet, corporation tax.

    I too wouldn't pay much heed to these opinion polls, but one can't just dismiss them and claim their content is made up.


  • #19
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    liammur wrote: »
    I would like to see a good debate re the pro's and con's of this so called silver bullet, corporation tax.
    You think it is a bit overrated the whole corporation tax thing?


  • #20
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    SkepticOne wrote: »
    You think it is a bit overrated the whole corporation tax thing?


    Not so much overrated. But I do ask, how are all the other economies (like denmark) surviving with a higher C Tax ?
    Have we become a 1-trick pony, have a very low corporation tax and we need do nothing else but become almost entirely dependent on MNC's. And then let's just hope that no one else can think of this fantastic idea.


  • #21
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    liammur wrote: »
    Not so much overrated. But I do ask, how are all the other economies (like denmark) surviving with a higher C Tax ?
    Have we become a 1-trick pony, have a very low corporation tax and we need do nothing else but become almost entirely dependent on MNC's. And then let's just hope that no one else can think of this fantastic idea.
    Other EU countries have implemented low corporation tax regimes (Estonia comes to mind) but Ireland still has a sort of first mover advantage in the area. I agree that it is a 1-trick pony and in many ways a more balanced strategy should have been adopted but now that we've gone down that road any sudden change, imo, would be disastrous.


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  • #22
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    What was the point of this thread? The original post is simply a regurgitation of statistics with no point being made whatsoever. The original poster has not responded to any replies.

    Edit: Removed the last statement. I'm not a mod and shouldn't make suggestions as to what should happen to threads.


  • #23
    hinault
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    I, for one, would welcome more direct intervention from Europe in to our affairs.

    It seems to me that we're incapable of managing our own affairs since Independence.

    In the last 60 years, we have managed to create three dreadful recessions and the latest of which we're still in since 2008.

    We deserve better.


  • #24
    RealityCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭RealityCheck


    hinault wrote: »
    I, for one, would welcome more direct intervention from Europe in to our affairs.

    It seems to me that we're incapable of managing our own affairs since Independence.

    In the last 60 years, we have managed to create three dreadful and the latest of which we're still in since 2008.

    We deserve better.

    We do, but me like many others will be going elsewhere to find better. Its really pathetic when we've been reduced to the level of wanting others to run the show for us. It almost as if its part of the Irish phsyche. This country has nothing to offer if its reduced to that.


  • #25
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    hinault wrote: »
    I, for one, would welcome more direct intervention from Europe in to our affairs.

    It seems to me that we're incapable of managing our own affairs since Independence.

    In the last 60 years, we have managed to create three dreadful and the latest of which we're still in since 2008.

    We deserve better.

    I fully agree.
    Also agree that changing our low corp tax rate now would be suicidal, but the strategy of having a very low C Tax in a way is a race to the bottom, and these companies are already getting enough in IDA grants and incentives etc.


  • #26
    sirromo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 156 ✭✭sirromo


    Irish want stronger European economic governance

    I don't think so. Read the first paragraph of that article
    Irish public opinion has shifted sharply in favour of stronger EU economic governance, according to Eurobarometer poll results published today. Along with the Finns, Ireland showed a 13% rise in those who want stronger European measures and coordination to combat the economic crisis, with a total of 77% in favour.

    Can that really be presented as evidence of support for European economic governance? It seems obvious to me that the question relates specifically to how we combat the current economic crisis and does not relate to the bigger question of whether the Europeans will have a role in formulating or vetoing future Irish fiscal or economic policy.

    Of course people are going to say that they want stronger measures to combat the economic crisis. Who doesn't want to see stronger measures and coordination between countries to combat the economic crisis? I'm sure if you were to ask the same people whether they would support stronger American measures and coordination to combat the economic crisis, people would give the same kind of response.


  • #27
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    Unfortunately, I think you are correct.

    There was, and probably still is, a feeling that we are too good for Europe.


  • #28
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #29
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    sirromo wrote: »
    I don't think so. Read the first paragraph of that article



    Can that really be presented as evidence of support for European economic governance? It seems obvious to me that the question relates specifically to how we combat the current economic crisis and does not relate to the bigger question of whether the Europeans will have a role in formulating or vetoing future Irish fiscal or economic policy.

    Of course people are going to say that they want stronger measures to combat the economic crisis. Who doesn't want to see stronger measures and coordination between countries to combat the economic crisis? I'm sure if you were to ask the same people whether they would support stronger American measures and coordination to combat the economic crisis, people would give the same kind of response.

    I tend to agree with this - at the moment, you're hardly going to get another response, really. I also wonder whether people are particularly aware of what sort of measures have been proposed.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • #30
    The_Thing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    ...the parish-pump political system

    If it were not for the likes of a few loose cannons like Jackie Healy Rae threatening to withdraw his support, then Bertie's mob - or the Blueshirts had they been in power - would have run roughshod over the people who democratically elected people like JHR, etc.


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  • #31
    rumour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 836 ✭✭✭rumour


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    I tend to agree with this - at the moment, you're hardly going to get another response, really. I also wonder whether people are particularly aware of what sort of measures have been proposed.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Is the next round of agreeing EU budgets(contributions) coming up shortly,within the next few months?

    Seems to me given the vagueness of the question it is just another stunt to have the amunition ready for a slice of the budget cake.


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