Bring Back Bertie ?

hallelujajordan · 06-09-2010 10:33am #1

So, bear with me . . .

Interesting article in yesterdays Sindo by John Drennan arguing that Bertie Ahern might be a more appropriate leader for todays times than the current FF leadership . .

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-hes-heroic-smart-and-cunning-so-why-not-bring-back-bertie-2325241.html

When the tribunal finds (as Im confident it will) that Ahern has no case to answer then I see no reason why not to put him back into the Taoiseach's chair. . .

For those of us who support the man . . we know that Bertie would arguably be more communicative, more visible, more capable of dealing with the current crisis than Brian Cowen.

For those who villify him and who blame him for all that is wrong in our country today, how better to punish him than to make him stand front and centre and deal with the mess that you believe he created . . or as Drennan puts it . .

"But returning Ahern to office would be the political equivalent of community service for on every working day the Taoiseach would be confronted with the consequences of his policies and told "You had better sort this one out too, Bertie". "

Let's not turn this thread into a rehash of all the old issues. . . there has been enough of that and we all know where each other stands. . .

The question is, In the current circumstances is there merit to bringing back Bertie Ahern to lead the country out of the quagmire ? ? ?

demonspawn · 06-09-2010 10:37am

Bring back Bertie and I guarantee you this country will see another revolution or a civil war. If not then this country has no hope whatsoever and I'm gonna gtfo to be quite honest. The people in this country who hate Bertie Ahern and everything he stands for should also leave and let this country rot with unbridled corruption. I'd rather live in Uganda that live under another Bertie government.

Sulmac · 06-09-2010 10:45am

To put it bluntly:

Hell no.

If anything we should get rid of Cowen and the rest of the useless cabinet we currently have.

Darlughda · 06-09-2010 10:46am

hallelujajordan wrote: »

So, bear with me . . .

When the tribunal finds (as Im confident it will) that Ahern has no case to answer then I see no reason why not to put him back into the Taoiseach's chair. . .

QUOTE]

Are you for real?

Or are you some FF hack that earns a ridicolous salary to spend a couple of hours a day posting comic material on Irish discussion forums?

hallelujajordan · 06-09-2010 10:51am

Darlughda wrote: »

Are you for real?

Or are you some FF hack that earns a ridicolous salary to spend a couple of hours a day posting comic material on Irish discussion forums?

Yes, I am for real and no i am not some FF hack that earns a ridiculous salary to spend a couple of hours a day posting comic material on Irish discussion forums..

It's an honest question . . Bertie Ahern has had the tribunals trawl through his every transaction over the last 30 year . . If they find that he has no case to answer then surely he has every right to return to office ? The real question I am interested in here is . . Would he be better capable of the challenges that face us than Brian Cowen ?

Liam Byrne · 06-09-2010 10:53am

I've seen lots of political spin in my life, but I don't think I've ever seen a supporter of someone - a supporter who can't see how they did wrong - imply that they should be "punished".

For those who villify him and who blame him for all that is wrong in our country today, how better to punish him than to make him stand front and centre and deal with the mess that you believe he created

If you and he want this, how is it "punishment" ?

And that's leaving aside the facts that (a) Ahern's communications aren't a-a-anywhere near what you claim, considering what he told those of us who were right and worried (b) he couldn't manage a booming economy, so how could he manage a mess ? (c) he shouldn't even be a TD (let's put that down to mundane issues like tax clearance certs) so how the hell could he be Taoiseach ? and (d) if HE would have to fix it, then maybe fair enough, but since FF's version of THEM fixing their mess is robbing those of us who didn't even subscribe to their boom, no thanks!

Back when this crisis broke out, I was almost under the impression that FF should be made fix it. However since then we've noticed that their version of "fixing it" involves wasting even more cash so that they don't have to admit they were wrong.

Add Bertie "let's throw cash at every problem, even when it's not a problem" Ahern to that scenario and we may as well sell the country to America for nuclear bomb testing.

I'm speechless! And that's a rare occurrence.

But don't take off those Bertie-coloured glasses, OP......the real world is ugly.

Darlughda · 06-09-2010 10:54am

hallelujajordan wrote: »

It's an honest question . . Bertie Ahern has had the tribunals trawl through his every transaction over the last 30 year . .

Good one Tommy. Better than yer last material.

hallelujajordan · 06-09-2010 10:56am

Darlughda wrote: »

Good one Tommy. Better than yer last material.

???? Who is Tommy ????

Liam Byrne · 06-09-2010 10:58am

I also have to point out that the tribunal's terms of reference are very, very specific.

Even if he's found "with no case to answer" in relation to those terms his conduct and contempt were unbecoming a Taoiseach.

hallelujajordan · 06-09-2010 11:00am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I've seen lots of political spin in my life, but I don't think I've ever seen a supporter of someone - a supporter who can't see how they did wrong - imply that they should be "punished".

I don't think he should be punished . . but if I try to see things from your perspective then I can understand why you might see it that way . .

Liam Byrne wrote:

If you and he want this, how is it "punishment" ?

I doubt he does want it . . i certainly have not seen anything to indicate that he does.

Darlughda · 06-09-2010 11:03am

Tiernan.

Bertie was and is a chancer who should be locked in the stocks and vegetables thrown at him before a very long jail sentence. Biffo is a buffoon but like all of his ilk lapdogs to the bertie boy.

Liam Byrne · 06-09-2010 11:03am

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I don't think he should be punished . . but if I try to see things from your perspective then I can understand why you might see it that way . .

That's my point. You say you "try to see things from our perspective", and yet the end result is something that your posts indicate would be what you want anyway.....

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I doubt he does want it . . i certainly have not seen anything to indicate that he does.

So you want us to consider someone who can't manage an economy and doesn't want the job ?

Ridiculous.

irishh_bob · 06-09-2010 11:04am

hallelujajordan wrote: »

So, bear with me . . .

Interesting article in yesterdays Sindo by John Drennan arguing that Bertie Ahern might be a more appropriate leader for todays times than the current FF leadership . .

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-hes-heroic-smart-and-cunning-so-why-not-bring-back-bertie-2325241.html

When the tribunal finds (as Im confident it will) that Ahern has no case to answer then I see no reason why not to put him back into the Taoiseach's chair. . .

For those of us who support the man . . we know that Bertie would arguably be more communicative, more visible, more capable of dealing with the current crisis than Brian Cowen.

For those who villify him and who blame him for all that is wrong in our country today, how better to punish him than to make him stand front and centre and deal with the mess that you believe he created . . or as Drennan puts it . .

"But returning Ahern to office would be the political equivalent of community service for on every working day the Taoiseach would be confronted with the consequences of his policies and told "You had better sort this one out too, Bertie". "

Let's not turn this thread into a rehash of all the old issues. . . there has been enough of that and we all know where each other stands. . .

The question is, In the current circumstances is there merit to bringing back Bertie Ahern to lead the country out of the quagmire ? ? ?

so you believe the man who increased public spending three fold during his premiership , wellfare by more than double , increased public sector wages by a massive amount and who created thousands of jobs through QUANGO,s , will now have some sort of road to damascus epiphany and completley go against what defined the man throughout his political career , being the man who said YES to everyone and who bought everyone off

were bertie to resume the role of taoiseach , we might aswell make jack o connor minister for finance ( again )

davef1000 · 06-09-2010 11:05am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'm speechless! And that's a rare occurrence.

Uhh, you're not really...

Liam Byrne · 06-09-2010 11:12am

davef1000 wrote: »

Uhh, you're not really...

Believe me, I was when I read the suggestion. And even then I had to hold back in order to stay remotely coherent and stay within the boards charter.

kilns · 06-09-2010 11:16am

Bertie will never go back, he got when he was top and would not go back as it ruin his reputation internationally.

I agree Cowen is not a good communicator and is not the right leader, you need someone who can both do and communicate

The real problem is I cant think of anybody from across the board.

Nobody in FF will step up to the plate, they are waiting for this Cowen to totally crash and burn and why would they want to be party leader when the party has a terrible election, which they will next time

FG - Kenny just doesnt inspire, Richard Bruton seems the most capable there but again there is something about him that doesnt sit right, I think he is a bit of a bullsh1tter!

Labour - the only thing I can say God help us if they get into power. Gilmore is nothing more than a soundbit man who jumps on things that others are doing or saying, its so easy to do that. Joan Burton, have you ever heard her say anything contructive and well thought or out instead of just attacking? if you listen to interviews with this party and are asked what would they do they just change the subject, they have no answers and no plans, a disaster!

So all in all we are in a bad state with our political "leaders", there needs to be some revolution and a new generation coming through at the next election. But the problem is, as with all parties the next generations will be the sons or daughters of former politicians and the real people who could make a difference get looked over

liammur · 06-09-2010 11:59am

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Yes, I am for real and no i am not some FF hack that earns a ridiculous salary to spend a couple of hours a day posting comic material on Irish discussion forums..

It's an honest question . . Bertie Ahern has had the tribunals trawl through his every transaction over the last 30 year . . If they find that he has no case to answer then surely he has every right to return to office ? The real question I am interested in here is . . Would he be better capable of the challenges that face us than Brian Cowen ?

It would be more in Ahern's line to do some charity work after his horrible suicide comments of a few years ago, especially now with suicide numbers rocketing.

ANXIOUS · 06-09-2010 12:07pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I also have to point out that the tribunal's terms of reference are very, very specific.

Even if he's found "with no case to answer" in relation to those terms his conduct and contempt were unbecoming a Taoiseach.

Moving the goal posts lightly :rolleyes:, face it if anything big was going to come out of the tribunial. It wouldve been leaked like they did every time they wanted to put bertie under pressure. 100's of millions is alot to spend on a witch hunt considering the Blair witch project only cost $25000.

For Forks Sake · 06-09-2010 12:50pm

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Interesting article in yesterdays Sindo

and I'm out.....

Liam Byrne · 06-09-2010 1:21pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Moving the goal posts lightly :rolleyes:, face it if anything big was going to come out of the tribunial. It wouldve been leaked like they did every time they wanted to put bertie under pressure. 100's of millions is alot to spend on a witch hunt considering the Blair witch project only cost $25000.

Not moving the goalposts lightly, slightly or even at all.

What emerged in relation to Ahern's finances during the tribunal might not be related to planning corruption (we have to wait and see, even though the tribunal was meant to report in early 2010 and still hasn't).

But what emerged was still damning and behaviour unacceptable as a leader.

That's bad enough in the past, but with people proposing the individual as first president and now (apparently without a hint of irony) as taoiseach, it's very relevant.

Anyway, probably more relevant is the fact that he's not eligible to even be a TD due to the lack of a tax clearance cert.

I doubt you'll agree, however, since you used the phrase "witch hunt" instead of "investigation".

yoshytoshy · 06-09-2010 1:25pm

We might all have been a bit "bertie" to have him before ,but never again.

demonspawn · 06-09-2010 1:32pm

liammur wrote: »

It would be more in Ahern's line to do some charity work after his horrible suicide comments of a few years ago, especially now with suicide numbers rocketing.

Hmm...if you convince someone to commit suicide and they actually succeed, is there a crime committed? Is there a lawyer in the house? I just wanna see that prick behind bars and I don't really care how we do it.

fontanalis · 06-09-2010 1:49pm

Why would he take the job? He would have to work this time instead of riding along on a credit bubble.

Laminations · 06-09-2010 2:56pm

Bring back Bertie?

I would ask if you are for real but the sad thing is I know you are. People like you exist :eek: And regardless of what the tribunal rules, his conduct at the tribunal in and of itself is reason enough to condemn the man and keep him away from politics.

And the saddest part is this is all coming from someone who supposedly wants to clean up FF.

Pathetic

WallyGUFC · 06-09-2010 3:00pm

I hate Bertie and politicians in general but it's ironic that people are blaming him and FF for bringing the country to it's knees when they were voted in for 3 terms in succession. How people voted for these swindling b**tards is beyond me, and now they blame the very people THEY voted in to govern the country...

Essexboy · 06-09-2010 3:02pm

And in terms of the recession, predicted by experts to be long and deep, Mr Ahern said that, since the 1920s, most economic downturns have lasted just a matter of months.

"The average length of a recession is 10 months."
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bertie-goes-off-track-with-bank-of-ireland-shares-tip-1549316.html

An economic genius!! At least he is not seen leaving his local in the early hours of the morning as Biffo is (or is he?)

Laminations · 06-09-2010 3:13pm

WallyGUFC wrote: »

I hate Bertie and politicians in general but it's ironic that people are blaming him and FF for bringing the country to it's knees when they were voted in for 3 terms in succession. How people voted for these swindling b**tards is beyond me, and now they blame the very people THEY voted in to govern the country...

People voted rightly or wrongly based on what government were telling them, namely that the economy was grand and that if we ever landed it would be soft - if you thought otherwise you were told to commit suicide.

FF were never given a mandate for wrecking the place and for their recent preference of baling out banks over the economy. Some people always found them fishy, others (unfortunately a majority) just believed what they were told - hopefully now we have all learnt to scrutinise government policy a bit more closely.

Blaming the electorate is like blaming the family who hire a babysitter for years, after which it emerges the sitter was doing bad stuff. Unless you were monitoring the babysitter 24/7 (which would make their job redundant) it wouldn't have been apparent at the time, especially if the sitter was lying to you. The electorate put their trust in this government and got let down.

Fool a voter once, shame on you, fool them twice then they're perfect for FF

jmayo · 06-09-2010 3:19pm

hallelujajordan wrote: »

So, bear with me . . .

Interesting article in yesterdays Sindo by John Drennan arguing that Bertie Ahern might be a more appropriate leader for todays times than the current FF leadership . .

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-hes-heroic-smart-and-cunning-so-why-not-bring-back-bertie-2325241.html

When the tribunal finds (as Im confident it will) that Ahern has no case to answer then I see no reason why not to put him back into the Taoiseach's chair. . .

For those of us who support the man . . we know that Bertie would arguably be more communicative, more visible, more capable of dealing with the current crisis than Brian Cowen.

For those who villify him and who blame him for all that is wrong in our country today, how better to punish him than to make him stand front and centre and deal with the mess that you believe he created . . or as Drennan puts it . .

"But returning Ahern to office would be the political equivalent of community service for on every working day the Taoiseach would be confronted with the consequences of his policies and told "You had better sort this one out too, Bertie". "

Let's not turn this thread into a rehash of all the old issues. . . there has been enough of that and we all know where each other stands. . .

The question is, In the current circumstances is there merit to bringing back Bertie Ahern to lead the country out of the quagmire ? ? ?

There is no merit in doing anything with bertie bar the use of a blindfold whilst he faces a firing squad.
And that is to protect us in the firing squad. :rolleyes:

I have this mental picture in my head of someone just back from Electric Picnic after having drank, smoked, sniffed a little too much over the weekend, who then reads that god awful paper and even worse the haughey apologist droning drennan who actually thinks this would be a good idea.

Sadly I reckon you are probably sober as a judge and as clean as Dana on a visit to the local convent and you actually do freakin believe this is a good idea. :eek:

Darlughda · 06-09-2010 3:24pm

He got away nice and 'clean' didn't he?

Bertie along with Cowen and the rest of the FF camp and probably the FG camp as well are neck rather than knee deep in the corruption and back handers game this country needs to purge itself of.

Enough of parish pump politics, turning up at funerals, hereditary seats etc. Time has come to really revamp this corrupt system.

greendom · 06-09-2010 3:36pm

I might approve if he is paid the minimum wage, or does it on a WPP programme

The Raven. · 06-09-2010 3:44pm

Bring him back? Why, where is he gone? We are still paying his salary - for doing nothing! For a minute there I thought he had resigned. Oh well :rolleyes:!

Bring Back Bertie ?

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