Irish Eyes Are Smiling-Ships Monthly Oct 2010

Steyr · 16-09-2010 12:15am #1

The Irish Naval Service has agreed a €98Million contract with Babcock Marine for the construction of two Offshore Patrol Vessels, The Order is part of a wide-ranging programme to replace all eight of the Navy's current Patrol Vessels by 2025. The as-yet unnamed Ships will be built in Appledore, North Devon at the same Shipyard that completed the Navy's 79M Patrol Vessels.

The 90M OPV's will replace the 1970's built P21 Class Vessels "EMER" and "AOIFE" carrying out Security, Customs and Fishery Protection duties around the Republics 3,500 miles of Coastline, The Ships will Operate with a Crew of 44 and have a Top Speed of 23Knots.

Manic Moran · 16-09-2010 3:31am

Steyr wrote: »

The Irish Naval Service has agreed a €98Million contract with Babcock Marine for the construction of two Offshore Patrol Vessels, The Order is part of a wide-ranging programme to replace all eight of the Navy's current Patrol Vessels by 2025. The as-yet unnamed Ships will be built in Appledore, North Devon at the same Shipyard that completed the Navy's 79M Patrol Vessels.

All eight? Including the P51s?

NTM

petergfiffin · 16-09-2010 10:12am

90M is a fair enough step up when you consider Eithne is just over 80. Any ideas as to what they will resemble?

mayo_lad · 16-09-2010 10:27am

Manic Moran wrote: »

All eight? Including the P51s?

NTM

in 2025 LE Róisín will be 26 years in commision and LE Niamh will be 24 years in commission
considering that the design life for them was 30 years it would make sense to plan to replace them early and sell them off to another navy instead of selling them as scrap like we are going to do with the current ships

OS119 · 16-09-2010 10:32am

Manic Moran wrote: »

All eight? Including the P51s?

NTM

i think so - my understanding is that the idea is to have a rolling programme of ship replacement orders rather than a 'stop-start' cake and arse party. long lead times and a set out, if elongated order programme should make the orders cheaper than penny-packet rush jobs.

quite what will actually happen is of course a somewhat different matter...

Steyr · 16-09-2010 2:20pm

petergfiffin wrote: »

90M is a fair enough step up when you consider Eithne is just over 80. Any ideas as to what they will resemble?

They will resemble the Niamh/Roisin, Similar in design.

Donny5 · 16-09-2010 2:44pm

Steyr wrote: »

They will resemble the Niamh/Roisin, Similar in design.

Any idea on the names they'll choose?

digme · 16-09-2010 5:33pm

Donny5 wrote: »

Any idea on the names they'll choose?

crystal, zoey, aisha , im looking out my window now at the navy ships

Steyr · 16-09-2010 10:33pm

Donny5 wrote: »

Any idea on the names they'll choose?

According to SM nothing has been mooted yet namewise but they will be as usual of Irish/Celtic Mythology.

Fratton Fred · 16-09-2010 10:42pm

That's brilliant news.

Nothing like a few new ships around the place to help improve national pride.

digme · 17-09-2010 12:50am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's brilliant news.

Nothing like a few new ships around the place to help improve national pride.

not when u got nukes

cyrusdvirus · 17-09-2010 8:31am

digme wrote: »

not when u got nukes

I don't follow??

Fratton Fred · 17-09-2010 11:40am

digme wrote: »

not when u got nukes

I think Joe Public is still very "Traditional" when it comes to the military.

An arsenal of dirty great big nukes doesn't mean anything to most people, seing a warship, complete with shiney sailors definately captures people's imagination.

I have seen le Orla come into Dun Laoghaire and despite the fact she is looking a bit old and tatty, people do show an interest in her.

Mankyspuds · 18-09-2010 12:05am

H, new to boards.
I hope they dont scrap the older ships. They could be used for customs or naval reserve. They could also easily look after the Irish Sea with a lesser complement of crew and let the more modern vessels patrol south and west coasts. Thats my two cent

Fratton Fred · 20-09-2010 11:33am

Mankyspuds wrote: »

H, new to boards.
I hope they dont scrap the older ships. They could be used for customs or naval reserve. They could also easily look after the Irish Sea with a lesser complement of crew and let the more modern vessels patrol south and west coasts. Thats my two cent

a good two cent in my opinion.

It would be relatively easy to have a presence permantly in Dublin or Dun Laoghaire.

cyrusdvirus · 20-09-2010 11:35am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

a good two cent in my opinion.

It would be relatively easy to have a presence permantly in Dublin or Dun Laoghaire.

Not sure about that one... isn't the Naval service having a severe manpower shortage??

Surely having more ships will spread the limited resources even thinner???

petergfiffin · 20-09-2010 12:50pm

gatecrash wrote: »

Not sure about that one... isn't the Naval service having a severe manpower shortage??

Surely having more ships will spread the limited resources even thinner???

Would have to agree with gatecrash on this one.

All your engineering/maintenance resources would be in Cork, you could outsource it but you would introduce a huge amount of duplication to support 1 or 2 ships.
Speaking from my experience (albeit a LONG time ago) NS Reserve staff simply aren't qualified to take ships of this nature to sea, before people start jumping up and down what I'm talking about is qualified watchkeeping officers more than seamen - ships are exceptionally complex pieces of kit and the fact they're older doesn't help!
What would they do with the ships? It's all well and good having them in Dublin but if they're not operational (or available) 24x7 they're next to useless. Plus you have the overhead of securing their weapons (if any) or even just providing any sort of security - don't forget that even when tied up NS ships have a permanent onboard presence.

I think from the NS Reserve point of view it's better to continue using them as an "integrated reserve" which can see them working onboard fully operational NS ships.

Having said all that there is probably merit in keeping one of the ships as a training ship which could be shared between the NS (and reserve), Coast Guard & NMCI college

mayo_lad · 20-09-2010 1:32pm

Mankyspuds wrote: »

H, new to boards.
I hope they dont scrap the older ships. They could be used for customs or naval reserve. They could also easily look after the Irish Sea with a lesser complement of crew and let the more modern vessels patrol south and west coasts. Thats my two cent

just a small point that i have to brake to you le ethene's hull has put her out of commission already she is currently mothballed and unfit for operational service if that is any thing to go by the other p21's are'nt in the best shape since they are older than her

oglaigh · 20-09-2010 1:41pm

mayo_lad wrote: »

just a small point that i have to brake to you le ethene's hull has put her out of commission already she is currently mothballed and unfit for operational service if that is any thing to go by the other p21's are'nt in the best shape since they are older than her

First, its spelt Eithne.
Secondly, source that its mothballed??

Edit:here is a recent article from the guardian which shows eithne working away as usual
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2010/aug/12/ireland-drugs-smuggling-navy

Steyr · 20-09-2010 6:54pm

mayo_lad wrote: »

just a small point that i have to brake to you le ethene's hull has put her out of commission already she is currently mothballed and unfit for operational service if that is any thing to go by the other p21's are'nt in the best shape since they are older than her

Where are you going talking that poop?

LE Emer is somewhere though according to IMO.

mayo_lad · 21-09-2010 7:41am

sorry everyone corrected by steyr i knew that one of the flotila was unofficially out of action due to a thin hull . the point remains though that when the P21's are replaced they will not be sea worthy.

they were designed for a 30 year life span and currently served 31 (LÉ Aoife )and 32(LÉ Emer ) while LÉ Aisling has served 30 years in amongst the roughest seas in the world according to the naval services http://www.military.ie/naval/flotilla/p51/roisin.htm

i wish i could find the study that was done by the navel services but that's the best i can do

Fratton Fred · 21-09-2010 9:22am

gatecrash wrote: »

Not sure about that one... isn't the Naval service having a severe manpower shortage??

Surely having more ships will spread the limited resources even thinner???

very true, it was wishful thinking more than anything.

I was thinking along the lines of a constant rotation of ships up and down the east caost more than actually building a base, but yeah, thin resources and all that.

Steyr · 22-09-2010 6:54pm

Here is a 90M OPV, its for the Trinidad and Tobago CG, I wonder is this along the lines of what we might get?? Funnily enough T&T will apparently as of today only accept 1 or 2 of these due to Budget cutbacks although they had confirmed an order for 3 or more?? I will find the article on this when its available online, the Vessels are being made by BAE Systems Surface Ships which means they will go looking to offload them to new customers.

8C2C6044DDBB478096BD5816DAFC890A-0000336624-0001934620-00800L-17AAF296FAAB4F4D9E8B4C52BEEFF7E0.jpg

concussion · 23-09-2010 9:27am

Is it just me, or does she look a bit dated?

punchdrunk · 23-09-2010 2:00pm

not at all,I think she looks great

Fratton Fred · 23-09-2010 2:18pm

Looks very similar to the royal Navy's River Class OPVs, but a bit bigger.

Tabnabs · 23-09-2010 2:24pm

concussion wrote: »

Is it just me, or does she look a bit dated?

Agree completely, naval design tends to be very conservative, but that's just old fashioned. Compare it to LÉ Roisin which is now ten years in service and probably dates in design back to the early/mid 90s.

Some more up to date stuff here
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2010/01/fdr-maritime-future-part-3-another-view-on-c3/

Fratton Fred · 23-09-2010 2:52pm

Dyflin wrote: »

Agree completely, naval design tends to be very conservative, but that's just old fashioned. Compare it to LÉ Roisin which is now ten years in service and probably dates in design back to the early/mid 90s.

Some more up to date stuff here
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2010/01/fdr-maritime-future-part-3-another-view-on-c3/

The Irish naval service has a very limited role though. These aren't ships that need radar fooling designs, or the ability to launch missiles, they are effectively there to tell Spanish Fishing vessels to feck off, or catch a yacht full of cocaine.

The future craft that article talks about are more escort type ships rather than patrol ships, are they not?

edit: thinking about it, wasn't HMS Mersey in Dublin a while back, maybe she was there as a demo model?

Tabnabs · 23-09-2010 4:13pm

You have to remember that a lot of modern designs may look stealthy (or plain ugly in the aesthetics sense) but are designed that way for hydrodynamic performance and reduced surging and turbulence instead.

You also have to understand that the Atlantic Ocean or the Irish Sea in winter is no place for a poorly designed or constructed vessel. If you're going to spend tens of millions, then it's a buyers market at the moment and you should be buying something that's future proof (to the greatest extent possible) and

Here's an illustration of old versus new technology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJsogw9fHE0

Steyr · 23-09-2010 7:09pm

Here is the News i mentioned:

BAE Systems, the UK defence company, is facing a £150m hit after the Trinidad and Tobago government said it wanted to cancel a contract to acquire three drug-busting patrol ships.

The company had been due to provide the Caribbean nation with patrol vessels and ancillary support in a deal signed by VT Shipbuilding in April 2007. BAE acquired VT in October 2009.

BAE said the patrol ship programme had suffered from delays for some time and that it reduced the amount paid for VT as a consequence.The defence company warned that the size of any financial penalty could not be "definitively assessed at this time" but estimated a "charge of up to £150m, before tax, may be required in the accounts for 2010." It said that estimate did not take into account the potential resale value of the vessels.

BAE said it would look to engage the Trinidad government in "commercial discussions... to find an equitable settlement".

The company said the first patrol ship was in the final stages of being handed over to the Trinidad government, while the second would be ready next month. VT had originally committed to providing the ships in mid-2009 and the Trinidad media suggested the country's government had become increasingly frustrated by the delays.

The government is reported to have already spent millions of pounds training would-be sailors to serve on the ships.
_______________________________________________________________

BAE Systems announces that it has received written notice from the Government of Trinidad and Tobago (GORTT) that it wishes to cancel the programme under which BAE Systems is providing three Offshore Patrol Vessels and support to the Trinidad and Tobago Coast Guard. The contract was entered into in April 2007 by the previous Trinidad and Tobago government and VT Shipbuilding International Limited; BAE Systems acquired full control of VT Shipbuilding International Limited in October 2009.

Whilst the programme has suffered from delays, prior to the receipt of the notice from the GORTT the parties had been engaged in the final stages of acceptance of the first ship. The second ship has completed its sea trials and will be ready for delivery in October. The third ship is due to begin sea trials in November.

Cost overruns on the programme resulted in cash adjustment to the acquisition consideration and further provisions were charged to the acquisition accounts for that transaction. Whilst the financial consequences of any termination cannot be definitively assessed at this time, the Group estimates a further charge of up to £150 million, before tax, may be required in the Group's accounts for 2010, before recognising value from the potential re-sale of the vessels.

The company will seek to engage in commercial discussions with GORTT to find an equitable settlement."

Issued by:

BAE Systems plc

London

Fratton Fred · 23-09-2010 8:37pm

BAE delivering a ship late and over budget:eek:

good to see the T&T Government making them pay, the UK Government could do with giving them a kicking as well.

Irish Eyes Are Smiling-Ships Monthly Oct 2010

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