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Bike Fitting

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  • 10-12-2010 1:10am
    #1
    fazer1
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭


    Anyone recommend a good bike fitting service, I have adjusted everything(one at a time and only small increments) and am still having knee problems!


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    #2
    SurferDude41
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭SurferDude41


    Lots of so called bike fitters out there,:(
    Unless they have a speedplay pro fit-kit, you will be only wasting your money.
    I had some knee issues, did some study on the bio-mechanics of cycling.
    Was able to fix my knee problems by fitting longer axles to my speedplay pedals:)


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    #3
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Cycleways do a bike fitting service, BUT, they don't use video analysis.

    http://www.cycleways.com/store/content/63/Bike-Fit/

    I went to them mostly for reasons of convenience, although next year I'll probably have a proper, videoed session.

    I found it quite good. I wasn't having any particular problems but Ash (the fitter) had a chat with me about my cycling and my ambitions. Then I was set to work on my bike on a turbo while he assessed and measured. I was put through various postures, speeds etc

    After that, it was case of adjust-cycle-adjust-cycle etc until the set up was complete. I did notice a huge gain in comfort - it just felt a whole lot nicer afterwards.

    I went for the second of the three options and the whole process took about 90 minutes.


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    #4
    paddymacsporran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 303 ✭✭paddymacsporran


    Irish fit in Dun Laoghaire sorted me out - qualified physios and a good computer set up/video analysis.

    Cost me €50 I think.


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    #5
    el tel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭el tel


    There was a free bike fitting event last night in Belfast. By all accounts it was excellent.


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    #6
    chakattack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭chakattack


    If you have a turbo, digital camera with video, measuring tape, a helping hand to take measurements, a basic grasp of geometry and lots of patience you can do it yourself.

    I've done alot of reading and tinkering over the last month and have arrived at a comfortable, powerful position and fixed some lower back and knee pain in the process.

    Some good resources are:

    Competitive cyclist fit calculator (to get ballpark)
    Bikefit.com
    Bikefitting.com
    Bikedynamics (on youtube)

    Aim for comfort over aerodynamics and trust your intuition about how it feels. Remember that you're not a pro-cyclist and your bike fit shouldn't look like theirs unless you're super flexible.

    It's not rocket science, there are three contact points - saddle, pedals and bars and thus the three most important measurements to get right are saddle height, saddle to handlebar and the height between saddle and bars.

    After that you can find tune your pedal stroke by making sure your cleats are setup properly, checking if your feet have varus/valgus tilt and if your legs are different lengths - both easily fixed with shims/insoles.


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    #7
    chakattack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭chakattack


    SurferDude41 wrote: »
    Lots of so called bike fitters out there,:(
    Unless they have a speedplay pro fit-kit, you will be only wasting your money.
    I had some knee issues, did some study on the bio-mechanics of cycling.
    Was able to fix my knee problems by fitting longer axles to my speedplay pedals:)

    Hi Surferdude,

    Do you know what the scientific way to find the optimum pedal spacing is?

    Was thinking about measuring my footsteps in the snow as a rough guide to matching my natural walking gait.


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    #8
    manwithaplan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭manwithaplan


    paddymacsporran wrote: »
    Irish fit in Dun Laoghaire sorted me out - qualified physios and a good computer set up/video analysis.

    Cost me €50 I think.

    Sorted me out too and thought they were good. Cost me €85ish though.


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    #9
    fazer1
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭fazer1


    Thanks for the advice guys, I think i'll try bikefitting.ie in bray. I wouldn't be confidant enough to try to set up myself as I think its a biomechanical problem. I'll keep ye posted on how I get on.


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    #10
    paddymacsporran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 303 ✭✭paddymacsporran


    Sit on the kitchen worktop and let yer feet dangle free - you will see how they lie from that.

    Don't be going for a fit with the pre-conceived idea you know what the problem is, you might be wrong!


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    #11
    SurferDude41
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭SurferDude41


    chakattack wrote: »
    Hi Surferdude,

    Do you know what the scientific way to find the optimum pedal spacing is?

    Was thinking about measuring my footsteps in the snow as a rough guide to matching my natural walking gait.

    The best way is to mount your bike, on a turbo trainer.
    Setup your video camera on a tripod a few metres away, You should be facing the camera. When viewed from the front,
    Your knees ankles and hips, should be in aligment. Knees should track straight up and down, and not trace a figure of 8.
    Most pedals are designed for, skinny slender hipped guys. These pedals have a much too narrow Q-factor, for us bigger cyclists.
    I used to suffer from iliotibial band friction syndrome, longer spindles on my speedplay pedals cured the problem entirely.

    My advice is not to give any so called bike fitter money, who does not have video motion capture analysis, and a Speedplay Pro-fit case, with all the different length speedplay pedal spindles.

    Perhaps I might start a bike fitting business myself. €700 for a proper speedplay pro-fit case, and with my knowledge of anatomy and physiology, and all those books I have read on the bio-mechanics of cycling.
    If I ever find the time, I will do the job properly. I will not take money from people, and provide a lousy half arsed service.

    Look for Paul Swift Bikefitting on U tube, simple as that:D


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    #12
    dave2pvd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭dave2pvd


    SurferDude41 wrote: »
    The best way is to mount your bike, on a turbo trainer.
    Setup your video camera on a tripod a few metres away, You shpuld be facing the camera.

    Your knees, ankles and hips, should track straight up and down.:)

    Look for Paul Swift Bikefitting on U tube, simple as that:D

    Your hips should track straight up and down??

    Look OP, if you can get a pro bike fit for EUR85, do it.

    Never listen to advice from internet forums ;)


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    #13
    SurferDude41
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭SurferDude41


    dave2pvd wrote: »
    Your hips should track straight up and down??

    Look OP, if you can get a pro bike fit for EUR85, do it.

    Never listen to advice from internet forums ;)

    Spoken like a true snake oil salesman. €85 for a bikefit??? Easy money for baffling people, with pseudo-scientific nonsense:(


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    #14
    dave2pvd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭dave2pvd


    SurferDude41 wrote: »
    Spoken like a true snake oil salesman. €85 for a bikefit??? Easy money for baffling people, with pseudo-scientific nonsense:(

    Look, the Wattmeter doesn't lie. Most people cannot manage a DIY bike fit. I wouldn't do it, knowing that I have someone I can trust to do it for me.

    People spend 1,000s on other go-faster purchases. A pro bike-fit (yes, with video analysis) is as good value as it gets. Especially if it prevents your hips going up and down.

    However, if it's snake-oil you want, despair not: 'invest' in some ceramic bearings.


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    #15
    High Nellie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 426 ✭✭High Nellie


    You can't be sure that a bike fit will sort you knee problem.
    First you have to find out what the problem is. Therefore, a 'physio analysis' rather than a 'bike-fit analysis' might be a better place to start.
    Qualified phisiotherapists are higly-qualified experts - you will need one with sports experience.
    For example, muscle imbalance or tight IT band are common causes of knee problems in cyclists. A bike fit won't sort those. If it is such a problem and you get it sorted properly, then you mighnt' need any special Speedplay fancy stuff. Then again, maybe you will, but I'd suggest spending you money initially with a very well qualifed physio for a bio-mechanical analysis and it will cost you far less than a bike fit.


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    #16
    SurferDude41
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭SurferDude41


    High Nellie wrote: »
    You can't be sure that a bike fit will sort you knee problem.
    First you have to find out what the problem is. Therefore, a 'physio analysis' rather than a 'bike-fit analysis' might be a better place to start.
    Qualified phisiotherapists are higly-qualified experts - you will need one with sports experience.
    For example, muscle imbalance or tight IT band are common causes of knee problems in cyclists. A bike fit won't sort those. If it is such a problem and you get it sorted properly, then you mighnt' need any special Speedplay fancy stuff. Then again, maybe you will, but I'd suggest spending you money initially with a very well qualifed physio for a bio-mechanical analysis and it will cost you far less than a bike fit.


    I would strongly have to dissagree with you. physiotherapists are great at treating sports injuries.
    However most cycling related injuries, are overuse injuries. These are usually caused by poor riding position.
    A case in point. A friend of mine, who enjoyed decades of injury free riding.
    He treated himself to a new dream bicycle.
    Within one week of riding this lovely new bike, he was crippled with IT band syndrome.
    He spent a small fortune on physiotherapy, all to no avail.
    Every time he rode his new bike, his IT band would become inflamed.
    The physiotherapist was happy to treat my friends injury, again and again.
    All Without addressing the root cause of his problem(riding position)
    As far as I am concerned this physio milked my friend, like a cash cow for months on end:(

    The upshot of this was, I was asked for advice on how to solve his problem.
    The solution was very simple indeed, an old pair of Time pedals. Old type Time pedals, have a very wide Q-factor. These enabled my friend's feet to adopt a wider stance. His IT band issue just vanished:D
    My friend continues to ride injury free, and has since changed to Speedplay pedals.

    Bike fitting is part art, and part science. (Not exactly rocket science)
    Done well it can solve a multitude, of cycling related injury problems.
    To date I have seen too many examples, of bike fitting done very badly.
    I just feel people should be aware of the facts, before parting with their hard earned money.


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    #17
    ryan_sherlock
    Registered Users Posts: 885 ✭✭✭ryan_sherlock


    I don't think there is anyone in Ireland offering this service, but I had a Retul bike fit done when I was in California with these guys: http://sportvelo.com/functional-fitting/

    I was very impressed with it and the results, they found a couple of things for me to improve on and made some modifications. I also have a full breakdown of my exact bike fit so I can easily pass to another person to build up a bike to the exact fit.

    It was $300 - but in my opinion, very well worth it. (Basically the cost of 6 GP4000s tires... put it in that context)

    I may be a little out of the 'norm' from most readers on this forum though.


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    #18
    High Nellie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 426 ✭✭High Nellie


    SurferDude41 wrote: »
    I would strongly have to dissagree with you. physiotherapists are great at treating sports injuries.
    However most cycling related injuries, are overuse injuries. These are usually caused by poor riding position.
    A case in point. A friend of mine, who enjoyed decades of injury free riding.
    ....

    'Doctors differ' etc.
    Another 'case in point' - i.e. myself.
    Had the knee problem, and the bike fit, and the speedpalys with the various shims etc.
    Went to physio with another problem and mentioned the bike-knee as a 'by the way'. It took him about 5 min to diagnose (a) mis-aligned pelvis which account for the leg-length discrepancy and which he sorted, so the Speedplay stuff could be ditched, and (b) muscle imbalance on the bad leg which was even obvious to me when it was pointed out compared with the other leg - exercise regime prescribed for this.
    Obvioulsy, both problems were tied up with each other over a long period and neither had anything to do with "most cycling related injuries are overuse injuries. These are usually caused by poor riding position."
    I wouldn't expect a bike-fit sepcialist to diagnose either of these physiological problems and all the bike-fitting in the world wouldn't have sorted the problems.
    Granted, there may be some bike-fitters who have spent a couple of years at university and internship etc learning the trade, but the one that I went to used his skill to compensate for my problem rather than getting to the bottom of the problem. My point is getting to the bottom of the problem required a level of professional knowledge and experinece that I wouldn't expect most bike-fitters to have.
    Certainly, if underlying physiological problems are ruled out by an expert in that are, then a bike-fit makes perfect sense.


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    #19
    Billycake
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭Billycake


    High Nellie, is there any chance you could could get in touch with me and pass on that physios name? He sounds like someone who knows their game.
    Thanks.


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    #20
    Single Malt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 440 ✭✭Single Malt


    High Nellie, it is never wrong to get a bike fit done if you do any significant mileage. Instead of recommending physio first, recommend bike fit and physio asap in the event of problems. While your issue was misaligned pelvis, a hell of a lot of cycling problems are fit related, and without a bike fit and physio visit it can be near impossible to get to the root of the problem.


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    #21
    pantani
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭pantani


    i went for a spin today and my left knee wasn't sore but felt stiff during the ride and still feels the same,i went to a physio last week and he done some work on my IT band.have felt this problem in my knee for a couple of spins now and wondering is the trouble from saddle height or saddle position?:cool:


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    #22
    anthonyvbyrne
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭anthonyvbyrne


    Everybodys anatomy is unique. You can measure everything under the sun, but the only right fit is the one that is comfortable. ... Take your tools out on a ride, and focus on and analyse every angle and stress in your body and adjust for each one - one step at a time ... like this. If your body says 'i wish i didnt have to lean so far forward', then raise the bars by half a cm. If it says I wish i didnt have to streatch my legs so far' then lower the saddle by half a cm. ... and so on. You will probably need to stop and adjust some 5 /6 /7 times, but by the time you have covered 20 Ks you should be as close as you can possibly get to 'right'.

    Thats assuming youve already bought a bike of a certain size ... If you havent bought the bike yet, you should go with the standard fitting tables ... i.e. big person, - big bike. ... small person, - small bike, etc.


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    #23
    dave2pvd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭dave2pvd


    anthonyvbyrne wrote: »
    Everybodys anatomy is unique. You can measure everything under the sun, but the only right fit is the one that is comfortable. ... Take your tools out on a ride, and focus on and analyse every angle and stress in your body and adjust for each one - one step at a time ... like this. If your body says 'i wish i didnt have to lean so far forward', then raise the bars by half a cm. If it says I wish i didnt have to streatch my legs so far' then lower the saddle by half a cm. ... and so on. You will probably need to stop and adjust some 5 /6 /7 times, but by the time you have covered 20 Ks you should be as close as you can possibly get to 'right'.

    Thats assuming youve already bought a bike of a certain size ... If you havent bought the bike yet, you should go with the standard fitting tables ... i.e. big person, - big bike. ... small person, - small bike, etc.

    Comfortable?? What's that got to do with going fast?? ;)


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    #24
    anthonyvbyrne
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭anthonyvbyrne


    dave2pvd wrote: »
    Comfortable?? What's that got to do with going fast?? ;)

    Well actually, I should say that I am not a competitive (speed) cyclist, I am a leisure 'endurance' cyclist.

    For me, Comfortable = less strain = better dynamics = last longer = go further ... You will be better able to harness your raw power if you are comfortable .... This may not be a scientific approach, but this is how I see it.

    My aim is not "to be the fastest" it is to simply "Enjoy cycling":cool:


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    #25
    SurferDude41
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭SurferDude41


    pantani wrote: »
    i went for a spin today and my left knee wasn't sore but felt stiff during the ride and still feels the same,i went to a physio last week and he done some work on my IT band.have felt this problem in my knee for a couple of spins now and wondering is the trouble from saddle height or saddle position?:cool:

    Does your knee get sore if you don't ride your bike?
    If you are doing other sports without pain, your bike position is the source of the problem......simple:D

    Iliotibial band syndrome, is nearly always caused by the wrong Q-factor. Poor shoe cleat alignment, or sometimes by poor foot bio-mechanics Flat feet or very high arches, or forefoot valgus or varus...( blame your parents)
    With IT band syndrome the knee is always the innocent victim, of a problem elsewhere.


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    #26
    pantani
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭pantani


    i feel my problem has to be the bike and my position on it,the saturday before christmas i ran a charirty run over 10km and hadn't the slightest problem.i truly hope it is positional problems as im only riding 2 -3 hour long rides for the last month or so and hope to do some sportives and with a little luck la marmotte is my big goal in the future some time.maybe im being a bit to ambitious only taking up cycling at 41 ,was too into soccer ,gaelic and running,when i could have had some great years on the bike...dag nammit!!:cool:


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    #27
    SurferDude41
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭SurferDude41


    pantani wrote: »
    i feel my problem has to be the bike and my position on it,the saturday before christmas i ran a charirty run over 10km and hadn't the slightest problem.i truly hope it is positional problems as im only riding 2 -3 hour long rides for the last month or so and hope to do some sportives and with a little luck la marmotte is my big goal in the future some time.maybe im being a bit to ambitious only taking up cycling at 41 ,was too into soccer ,gaelic and running,when i could have had some great years on the bike...dag nammit!!:cool:

    Don't give up yet, at 41 you have at least another 30 years of cycling to look forward to.
    Have a look at this, it will give you an idea of what good knee alignment looks like. Borrow a turbo trainer and a camcorder....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=811QduRWhBs


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    #28
    pantani
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭pantani


    thanks very much surferdude really appreciate that ,ive adjusted my saddle some for todays spin so ill see how that goes and kinda work on it from there.thaks again ill keep you posted!:cool:


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    #29
    pantani
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭pantani


    hey up surferdude went for a spin yesterday bout hour and a half no knee problems to report seems rising the saddle worked for me,going with the club on sunday for a long one probably 2 and a half to 3 hours so fingers crossed ,i don't get anymore trouble.:cool:


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    #30
    SurferDude41
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭SurferDude41


    Hey Pantani dude,
    Glad I could help! Be sure to bring an allen key with you, on the 3 hour club ride. A saddle that is too high can cause a multitude of problems as well.:eek:
    The trick is to find that elusive balance of power, efficiency and comfort:)

    I find myself, if my saddle height is even 2mm too high, I get some lower back pain and my hamstrings become slightly sore....but I guess everybody is different.

    Don't forget to do some post ride stretching, when you return from the clubride...


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    #31
    airscotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭airscotty


    Has to be Fernando of Fit4Bike. Know of numerous people who'v used Fit4Bike and been very happy. Uses all the gadgets such as lazor etc to make sure its bang on. I think they can travel out to you or you can go to one of there locations in North or South Dublin. fernando@fit4bike.com


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