Driving unaccompanied on Learner Permit?

epiphone · 08-02-2011 10:42am #1

I'm just wondering are there many people driving unaccompanied on a learner Permit?

My son just failed his test and I feel he is a competent driver. I have never allowed him out unaccompanied but from what I can see a lot of young drivers are driving unaccompanied.

Is anybody here driving unaccompanied? Are the guards checking for this?

Max Power1 · 08-02-2011 10:47am

There are lots of unnacompanied learners.

I did it for 9 months myself.

I saw, for the first time, a learner unaccompanied being stopped by AGS recently, in all the time i had driven unnacompanied i was stopped once and was let off with a (unofficial) warning

Sinemo · 08-02-2011 11:52am

My mam started to let me drive unaccompanied (was learning in her car) after I failed the test. I was only allowed to drive within my local area though, and only got pulled over once (but that was the August bank holiday and they didn't ask to see my licence).
It might be a better idea to get a new date for the test and see how he goes. If he is a good driver then it shouldn't be too hard to get.

jordainius · 08-02-2011 12:39pm

epiphone wrote: »

I'm just wondering are there many people driving unaccompanied on a learner Permit?

My son just failed his test and I feel he is a competent driver. I have never allowed him out unaccompanied but from what I can see a lot of young drivers are driving unaccompanied.

Is anybody here driving unaccompanied? Are the guards checking for this?

With all due respect, it is not up to you whether or not he is a competent driver, that's what the driving test is for! It's also irrelevant whether or not other young learner drivers drive unaccompanied. For instance, I see people speeding and getting away with it on a regular basis but that doesn't mean I'm going to start driving faster as a result!

The gardaí are probably not actively checking for it as far as I know, they check for it about as often as they stop cars for tax/nxct/insurance. So if your son were to be stopped for a routine check like this he could find himself in trouble when he produces a learner permit/provisional license and is not with an accompanying full licensed driver.

It's at the garda's own discretion what happens from what I've heard. I've heard of some people being let off with a warning and I've also heard of people being charged and ending up having to pay a fine, I've even read a case or two where the permit is removed and they have to reapply and pass the theory test again.

Also, if he were to be involved in an accident, would he be insured if he was unaccompanied? (I don't know myself, but we all know that insurance companies will take any excuse they can get to avoid paying out...)

**Timbuk2** · 08-02-2011 1:02pm

I have heard of a few cases where people were caught driving unaccompanied driving to school.

I'm 18 at the moment, but most of my time on a Learner Permit was when I was 17. I never once drove unaccompanied (apart from around my driveway). My parents too believed I was competent, my instructor said I was an extremely fast learner and I should have no problem passing the test. I failed it first time for lack of progress turning right (and also lack of progress on the straight).

Clearly I was unfit to be driving unaccompanied. 4 weeks later I passed my test with 0 Grade 2 or 3 faults, so then I could feel as if I earned the right to drive alone - when I got my pink licence.

But if you can't pass a test that only involves (to look at it simply) driving around 50km/h roads for 30 minutes, making 8 or less serious (!!) faults then you really shouldn't be driving alone - driving alone is a whole lot different. You don't have anyone to ask advice if something out of the ordinary happens, and you definitely don't have the experience necessary to deal with, and anticipate, situations - that takes years of driving to perfect (if you can ever really 'perfect' such a skill).

Hope that he passes the next test

booksale · 08-02-2011 7:01pm

i drive on my own always.

i did not in the beginning though, always accompanied by a full licenced driver. but i dont have any family here and i dont wanna hassle my friends too much. after all, they have their own stuff to do.

So, when I felt more capable, i started to drive on my own to work (my job is very ad hoc so need to drive to work esp. night time when there is no public transport and the company would not really be willing to pay for the taxi) and college.

got myself a GPS and it helps me a lot in improving my driving. i dont need to worry too much about directions so i can be calm and concentrated on driving alone.

i always have my L plate on.

there are a lot of times the garda cars are next to me or behind me or what, but they never stop me. there are also a few times i drove pass checking points, they just check the discs. and never questioned about the L plate of my driving permit.

but mind you, i am a woman in my thirties, so it's probably why they let me go. and also, i have already applied my driving test.

my suggestion is if you can go with your son, always do.

Permabear · 08-02-2011 7:25pm

This post has been deleted.

The Sparrow · 08-02-2011 9:44pm

jordainius wrote: »

Also, if he were to be involved in an accident, would he be insured if he was unaccompanied? (I don't know myself, but we all know that insurance companies will take any excuse they can get to avoid paying out...)

Whatever about the rights or wrongs, he would be insured if driving alone. It is a myth that learner drivers are not covered if driving alone.

Robxxx7 · 09-02-2011 3:41pm

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Sound advice ....

Far too many people think that they can just go out on the road and drive.
The test is there for a reason, Instructors are there for a reason ... use them

epiphone · 09-02-2011 5:10pm

Thank you all for your responses.

You are correct and I wont be letting him drive unaccompanied. I was just feeling his disappointment for him when he failed.

He has re-applied for his test and I will update how he gets on!!!

Thanks again.

Sabrielle · 12-02-2012 1:35pm

The Sparrow wrote: »

Whatever about the rights or wrongs, he would be insured if driving alone. It is a myth that learner drivers are not covered if driving alone.

Can anyone confirm that this is true?

Chris_Heilong · 12-02-2012 2:52pm

Sabrielle wrote: »

Can anyone confirm that this is true?

its true, I was reversed into while leaving a car park and went through the insurance companies, no problem. Also the test is not always about driving ability, from the mouth of an actual driving instructor; they are obliged to fail a few each day regardless of ability. You see alot of drivers with L plates up driving by them selves but there are 3 times more learner drivers on the road with no plates up. Ill have mine up until I pass the test.

**Timbuk2** · 12-02-2012 3:08pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Also the test is not always about driving ability, from the mouth of an actual driving instructor; they are obliged to fail a few each day regardless of ability.

This is not the case. There is no quota, the testers do not have to pass a certain amount or fail a certain amount of people. Each person is judged individually and whether they are the first or the 60th to take the test that week, whether everyone who did the test that day before him/her has passed, or whether they are taking their test on a Monday morning or a Friday evening has absolutely nothing to do with it!

As for the insurance thing, check with your insurance. Some insurance policies have special clauses to say that the learner isn't insured unless driving with an accompanied driver (e.g. that 6 months free accompanied driving cover from Aviva if you block book driving lessons), whereas a lot of others have no such clauses and will pay out even if you are driving alone, as they can't void your policy for breaking the law (similarly how they can't void the policy if you exceed the speed limit by 5km/h, also breaking the law).

Sabrielle · 12-02-2012 3:56pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

its true, I was reversed into while leaving a car park and went through the insurance companies, no problem. Also the test is not always about driving ability, from the mouth of an actual driving instructor; they are obliged to fail a few each day regardless of ability. You see alot of drivers with L plates up driving by them selves but there are 3 times more learner drivers on the road with no plates up. Ill have mine up until I pass the test.

Does the same apply if you are the cause of the accident and are a provisional driver driving unaccompanied? In your case it was the other insurance company that was paying up not your own because the other driver was liable so maybe thats why your license didn't come into it?

Alanstrainor · 12-02-2012 4:21pm

Sabrielle wrote: »

Does the same apply if you are the cause of the accident and are a provisional driver driving unaccompanied? In your case it was the other insurance company that was paying up not your own because the other driver was liable so maybe thats why your license didn't come into it?

Breaking the law does not invalidate motor insurance, unless is specifically states this in the policy documents.

Mister Jingles · 12-02-2012 4:40pm

To be fair I think the €85 to take the test is part of the problem here, I was also told that the RSA are thinking of bringing it up again this year to over €100, I've no direct source for this, was just informed by someone in the business.

Also would anybody here know where to find out the current (2011) pass rates for the test centers. I'd be curious to see if Dublin still has the worst compared to most other parts of the country. :rolleyes:

Sabrielle · 12-02-2012 4:45pm

Sorry for continuing to hijack the thread with insurance questions

The only reference I can find with relation to law in a quinn direct policy is the following
"

Choice of law

15. You and we may choose which law applies to this contract. Unless we agree

with you otherwise, this insurance is governed by Irish law.

This certificate of insurance will be governed by Irish Law unless the master policyholder, the insured and we agree otherwise prior to the beginning of the period of insurance."

Does this mean that if you are breaking the law that effectively you are not covered?

Chris_Heilong · 12-02-2012 5:03pm

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

This is not the case. There is no quota, the testers do not have to pass a certain amount or fail a certain amount of people. Each person is judged individually and whether they are the first or the 60th to take the test that week, whether everyone who did the test that day before him/her has passed, or whether they are taking their test on a Monday morning or a Friday evening has absolutely nothing to do with it!

As for the insurance thing, check with your insurance. Some insurance policies have special clauses to say that the learner isn't insured unless driving with an accompanied driver (e.g. that 6 months free accompanied driving cover from Aviva if you block book driving lessons), whereas a lot of others have no such clauses and will pay out even if you are driving alone, as they can't void your policy for breaking the law (similarly how they can't void the policy if you exceed the speed limit by 5km/h, also breaking the law).

This is just me passing on information from a RSA tester I know its not from personal experience, I also heard about a tester that failed someone I know by walking to her car, taking out a coin which he then put into her tire groove and said "your car is unsafe test cancelled" maybe it was unsafe maybe it wasnt.

In relation to the other question, you are right, a car hit me and they were at fault, I dont know how it would have went if it was my fault but heard you are still covered.

Alanstrainor · 12-02-2012 5:05pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

This is just me passing on information from a RSA tester I know its not from personal experience, I also heard about a tester that failed someone I know by walking to her car, taking out a coin which he then put into her tire groove and said "your car is unsafe test cancelled" maybe it was unsafe maybe it wasnt.

Tyres below minimum thread depth. Seems pretty reasonable to me tbh...

Sabrielle · 12-02-2012 6:11pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

This is just me passing on information from a RSA tester I know its not from personal experience, I also heard about a tester that failed someone I know by walking to her car, taking out a coin which he then put into her tire groove and said "your car is unsafe test cancelled" maybe it was unsafe maybe it wasnt.

In relation to the other question, you are right, a car hit me and they were at fault, I dont know how it would have went if it was my fault but heard you are still covered.

All of the testers are strict on the condition of the car, they check tyres, all the lights, make sure you have no lights on your dash. Sometimes this may seem pedantic if you're not taken out for a test if your number plate light bulb has blown or something but I think but at least it seems to be something that they all testers do so it means that nobody is being treated unfairly in that aspect of the test anyway. I couldn't say whether testers are unfair or not on other things.

MascotDec85 · 12-02-2012 7:31pm

Mister Jingles wrote: »

To be fair I think the €85 to take the test is part of the problem here, I was also told that the RSA are thinking of bringing it up again this year to over €100, I've no direct source for this, was just informed by someone in the business.

Also would anybody here know where to find out the current (2011) pass rates for the test centers. I'd be curious to see if Dublin still has the worst compared to most other parts of the country. :rolleyes:

The €85 is not part of the problem. The fee was increased to make it less attractive for people, particularly those going for their 3rd learner permit, from booking a test and not bothering their backside turning up. Doing this pushes the waiting times for everyone up. They are simply trying to get as many drivers as possible to be properly trained, sit and pass the driving test. That should, in theory, increase driving standards and ultimately make the roads safer.

The figures for 2011 aren't available as far as I can see. Here's the figures for 2010. http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/The-Driving-Test/Driving-Test-Centre/Pass-Rates/

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

This is just me passing on information from a RSA tester I know its not from personal experience, I also heard about a tester that failed someone I know by walking to her car, taking out a coin which he then put into her tire groove and said "your car is unsafe test cancelled" maybe it was unsafe maybe it wasnt.

In relation to the other question, you are right, a car hit me and they were at fault, I dont know how it would have went if it was my fault but heard you are still covered.

The minimum tread depth is 1.6mm. If the girl's tyres were below this the tester won't conduct the test. Tyres are looked at before each and every test.

I'd also not listen to too many stories that go around about tests/testers/why people failed. Quite a number of people will be happy to blame other people regarding failing a test rather than look at the real reason or their own failings/actions.

rab!dmonkey · 12-02-2012 9:50pm

Sabrielle wrote: »

Sorry for continuing to hijack the thread with insurance questions

The only reference I can find with relation to law in a quinn direct policy is the following
"

Choice of law

15. You and we may choose which law applies to this contract. Unless we agree
with you otherwise, this insurance is governed by Irish law.

This certificate of insurance will be governed by Irish Law unless the master policyholder, the insured and we agree otherwise prior to the beginning of the period of insurance."

Does this mean that if you are breaking the law that effectively you are not covered?

No. All that means is that Irish Law applies to the insurance policy rather than English Law, German Law, Zimbabwean Law or any other country's law.

It would be absurd if breaking the law invalidated your insurance. If that was the case, then the driver of a car which was damaged by someone ignoring a red light would be unable to claim on the insurance of the driver who ignored the light as their insurance would be invalidated for breaking the law.

Liamario · 12-02-2012 10:06pm

He's not competent because he doesn't have a full licence....

That is the biggest load of bull I've ever read in my life.

I drove for two years on a provisional;went through several checkpoints, never got any points and was never asked to produce my licence. I was and am a safe driver. Of course I do make the odd mistake, but never intentionally and I would never take unnecessary risks.
The point I'm making, is that having a pink licence doesn't make you a competent driver. A pink licence only shows that you have managed to drive on a road for thirty minutes in a manner you won't normally drive in, without making too many mistakes.

Just so you know, I am fully licensed now. But that doesn't suddenly make me a competent driver. Actually in my experience, when some people get fully licensed, they become worse drivers.

Mister Jingles · 12-02-2012 10:10pm

Liamario wrote: »

A pink licence only shows that you have managed to drive on a road for thirty minutes in a manner you won't normally drive in, without making too many mistakes.

Just so you know, I am fully licensed now. But that doesn't suddenly make me a competent driver. Actually in my experience, when some people get fully licensed, they become worse drivers.

Or in other words a manner which you'll probably never drive in again......

VagnerLove · 12-02-2012 10:42pm

I drive alone all the time.

obviously your son could be caught, but no learners I know have been. if you think your son can drive well, safely etc, I don't see the big deal. he could be driving better than loads of people on their full-license. as long as you trust him not to act the bollocks with his mates, he will probably be grand.

ardmacha · 13-02-2012 12:40am

I think it is unwise to deliberately seek to obtain a motoring offence on your record, before you are even qualified to drive.

cf10 · 18-02-2012 8:12pm

Well I can only speak from my own experience here but i think driving on your own is a really bad idea!

I hated it at the time, but my parents put their foot down and I'm glad they did! I passed my test on my first go, and have my licence 2 years with no penalty points/accidents etc.

I think the fact that your son failed had nothing to do with not allowing him to drive on his own, he was probably just nervous/had a bad day!

The guards arent strict at all but I still feel driving on your own feeds bad habits and in my opinion only contributes to failing the test....if i tried to pass my test now after 2 years of driving alone i would fail!

I say just get him a good teacher and keep practising!

conorfitz · 19-02-2012 6:27pm

To be honest, I think it depends on a few factors.

I did it from last July till February. (Passed My Test, first go) =D

I was never pulled over.

Once, I drove into a checkpoint. NCT was out by 5 months, I had my L plates up, only me in the car and I got waved on.

I believe that it depends on:

The Mood of the Garda

If the guard is in a bad mood or in fact have been told to look out for learner drivers that day, their more inclined to stop you.

[*]The Person Driving

If the person driving looks "dodgy" or looks like their going to cause trouble on the road, they might take it more seriously.

[*]The Car

Lastly, if the driver is driving around in a Honda Civic, they might just think, he's racer. I think they frown upon car's like this.

Please remember this is only my opinion. Maybe it was those factors, maybe I was just lucky.

EDIT: I was 17/18 when driving on the learner permit by the way.

shangri la · 27-02-2012 1:17am

If you are stopped and are unaccompanied and the guard charges you are you yourself allowed to drive the car home?

DidYouSquirt? · 27-02-2012 2:25am

epiphone wrote: »

I'm just wondering are there many people driving unaccompanied on a learner Permit?

My son just failed his test and I feel he is a competent driver. I have never allowed him out unaccompanied but from what I can see a lot of young drivers are driving unaccompanied.

Is anybody here driving unaccompanied? Are the guards checking for this?

The only time im accompanied is when im doing lessons after that im on my own. If i was to obey the law to the letter i would never learn how to drive..

You should get your son to redo his test asap, it will be worse if he waits around

Faith+1 · 27-02-2012 2:27am

DidYouSquirt? wrote: »

The only time im accompanied is when im doing lessons after that im on my own. If i was to obey the law to the letter i would never learn how to drive..

You should get your son to redo his test asap, it will be worse if he waits around

I did and passed my test first time. I'm not gloating or trying to show off but the law is there for your own safety and you should respect it.

Driving unaccompanied on Learner Permit?

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