ESB public charging plans

Hector Mildew · 31-10-2015 12:42am #1

I got a copy of the ESB charging plans today, confirming €16.99 per month for access to public charging.

If I'm reading it correctly, it looks like there'll be a charge per use for fast charging, in addition to the monthly charge, after April 2016.

I'm not an EV owner yet - still thinking about it, but this is food for thought as based on my driving I would only be an occasional user of fast charging (but wouldn't like to be without it) ..

Padraig Mor · 31-10-2015 9:45am

Hector Mildew wrote: »

I got a copy of the ESB charging plans today, confirming €16.99 per month for access to public charging.

If I'm reading it correctly, it looks like there'll be a charge per use for fast charging, in addition to the monthly charge, after April 2016.

I'm not an EV owner yet - still thinking about it, but this is food for thought as based on my driving I would only be an occasional user of fast charging (but wouldn't like to be without it) ..

So, €17 a month just for the privilege of accessing the public network - even if you rarely use, or plan never to use, it? Plus extra charges for fast chargers? Ridiculous! This could kill EVs stone dead, just as they're gaining in popularity.

Benny_Cake · 31-10-2015 10:34am

Padraig Mor wrote: »

So, €17 a month just for the privilege of accessing the public network - even if you rarely use, or plan never to use, it? Plus extra charges for fast chargers? Ridiculous! This could kill EVs stone dead, just as they're gaining in popularity.

Pretty dumb alright. I rarely use the public network but I would still need to be able to access it in case I was making a longer trip. Per unit charging would make a lot more sense for me, at least give people a choice between paying a monthly subscription and a low per unit rate, or no subscription and a higher per unit rate.

TBi · 31-10-2015 10:52am

If this is true then I definitely won't be going electric. Per unit charging is the only way to go.

stesaurus · 31-10-2015 10:52am

That is ridiculous if true. All it will do is make people use a fast charge regularly when they don't need it so that they're getting their moneys worth.
Absolutely stupid.

Villain · 31-10-2015 10:55am

This would be crazy, starting to charge for an unreliable system is one thing but charging you simply to have the option of using charge points along with charging for any usage is insane.

Op where did you get that leaflet?

The communication of ESB ecars is beyond embarrassing now.

Hector Mildew · 31-10-2015 11:36am

Villain wrote: »

This would be crazy, starting to charge for an unreliable system is one thing but charging you simply to have the option of using charge points along with charging for any usage is insane.

Op where did you get that leaflet?

The communication of ESB ecars is beyond embarrassing now.

A colleague of mine got it from a Nissan dealer earlier this week.

I'm having second thoughts about getting an EV now as I would be mostly be charging at home - my work round trip is well within range. 17 pm will work out expensive for my occasional cross country trips, should I need a fast charge. Hopefully they'll add a pay per charge option..

homer911 · 31-10-2015 11:38am

Doesn't make any allowance for overseas visitors - maybe they are only running up a flag and seeing how people react?

Villain · 31-10-2015 11:44am

Hector Mildew wrote: »

A colleague of mine got it from a Nissan dealer earlier this week.

I'm having second thoughts about getting an EV now as I would be mostly be charging at home - my work round trip is well within range. 17 pm will work out expensive for my occasional cross country trips, should I need a fast charge. Hopefully they'll add a pay per charge option..

I have a leaf one year now and 99% of the charging for the 15k I have up was done at home but having to pay €17 a month to have the option to pay for public charging points?? Crazy

I'm just glad I know the min value of my car with PCP so I can start planning to walk away if this comes in.

Benny_Cake · 31-10-2015 12:12pm

homer911 wrote: »

Doesn't make any allowance for overseas visitors - maybe they are only running up a flag and seeing how people react?

Very true, I don't know if anyone has seen Kiwi EV's videos but his experience of driving across European borders is an example of how important it is that someone should be able to pay for a charge at the point of use:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j941UIWlLPY

Hector Mildew · 31-10-2015 12:58pm

Villain wrote: »

I have a leaf one year now and 99% of the charging for the 15k I have up was done at home but having to pay €17 a month to have the option to pay for public charging points?? Crazy

I'm just glad I know the min value of my car with PCP so I can start planning to walk away if this comes in.

It sounds crazy alright, imagine if Topaz required a subscription just to use their filling services, in addition to 1.30 per litre? Well the competition would kill them, maybe that's whats needed.

The ESB seem to be following the mobile phone network subcription model with this, hopefully they'll have a pre-pay alternative at the very least - if pure pay per charge isn't an option.

Lutecia · 31-10-2015 1:53pm

Do we have any anti-monopoly law in this country ?
Cause this is what it looks like. They can put the price they want : if you don't pay, you're stuck in a radius of 100ish km around your house

BoatMad · 31-10-2015 4:07pm

17 euros , PLUS a yet to be determined fast charge fee , that's nuts. Time to pile into the ecar Facebook page and register howls of protest.

The fast charger network , should simply be on a KWh unit basis.

Villain · 31-10-2015 6:25pm

The ESB Ecar Facebook page is now showing what happens when you fail to communicate and vacuum is created. But as usual with semi state bodies it's very unlikely anyone is actually responsible here.

heliguyheliguy · 01-11-2015 12:14pm

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories but this is either utter ignorance or a plot to kill ev's in Ireland. it is way to early / numbers are way to low for charging of any kind let alone this subscription bullsxxt. Where is tesla? we need Elon Musk in this fight.

thierry14 · 01-11-2015 12:33pm

:-) That's unbelievable

All Ev owners at the mercy of the Esb who's profits were up 23% last year.

That's just greddy.

The likes of topaz, texaco, tesco etc might set up there own electric charging network now on site and join in the fleecing of Ev owners until they are extinct.

I am shocked, feel bad for all Ev owners and Mad Lad

heliguyheliguy · 01-11-2015 1:10pm

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1602716789969603/permalink/1615564008684881/

https://www.facebook.com/ESBecars/?fref=ts

02-11-2015 2:26am

I am in favour of paying for electricity because the current system promotes abuse because it's free but I believe a flat monthly charge will promote even more abuse as people get value for their monthly charge.

I don't use the public chargers much so I don't think it's fair I am locked into a monthly charge for the odd time I need the fast chargers.

I would pay a higher Kwh cost with no monthly charge and for those regular users they could pay a monthly charge and less per kwh.

I accept charging for free can't continue but the system needs to be fair.

Dexter1979 · 02-11-2015 9:36am

No person who drives a conventional ICE car has to pay upfront for fuel they may not use. Not every EV driver should be expected to do this either.

So here's how I see this working the best.

Per minute charge for the FCPs to stop people over staying. Per kWh price for the rest. You can vary these costs based on your plan. PAYG with higher rates for occasional users, monthly subscription with lower rates for the heavier users. Switch online with a few clicks.

It's similar to what FastNed have. They also have a higher monthly flat rate for the really heavy users which could also be considered.

Depending on the location of the FCP you could have ones with a per kWh price if they are at service stations. Places like Blanchardstown, Naas, Portlaoise, etc need a per minute rate to keep them free of campers.

I really hope ESB Ecars will think this through before alienating their customers even further and potentially killing or delaying the adoption of electric vehicles.

And on a personal note, I'm not against paying for my fuel. I welcome it but it will have to be fair.

DrPhilG · 02-11-2015 11:06am

Just a thought, but do any of the EV hardcore early adapter types around here have any contacts within Renault or Nissan?

Surely they stand to lose out a lot more than individual owners like us if the ESB succeed in halting the EV revolution in it's tracks?

heliguyheliguy · 02-11-2015 11:30am

Charging for charging will not benefit the uptake of ev's. If your only goal is to ensure there is a space available when you need one then go ahead support charging. But I ask what will you do when the service is abandoned due to lack of interest! where will you charge then? Big picture guys we need lots more free of charge evse's if the network is to grow and become a viable alternative.

Think bigger than yourself and you will benefit yourself and those around you.

pwurple · 02-11-2015 2:20pm

If this was the only model, then I'd say it is a failure off the blocks for several reasons:

1) Charging people for points which are blocked. Can you imagine the frustration levels of paying 17 euro a month for a point which always has a petrol/diesel car parked in it?
2) Visitors from outside the jurisdiction. How do they use it?
3) Abuse. Flat rate will cause people to drive off to their nearest charger and leave it there overnight rather than use their home charger.

I'd be open to a card which debits my account as I use it, or a card which I top up. But flat rate for what is currently available? No way.

Villain · 02-11-2015 2:41pm

So despite several people posting to their Facebook page and tweeting etc there has been no response from ESB Ecars, I called their number and the call center know as much as the users, nothing.

How an organisation can have such poor communication skills is beyond me. You can't even speak with them the call center can't transfer you and they never call back!

02-11-2015 5:24pm

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Charging for charging will not benefit the uptake of ev's. If your only goal is to ensure there is a space available when you need one then go ahead support charging. But I ask what will you do when the service is abandoned due to lack of interest! where will you charge then? Big picture guys we need lots more free of charge evse's if the network is to grow and become a viable alternative.

Think bigger than yourself and you will benefit yourself and those around you.

Billing for electricity used will encourage more people to charge at home freeing up the chargers.

Flat rate will encourage abuse just like free usage already does.

Electric car sales in Ireland are nothing, they are 0.4% of the market or something like that. Petrol and diesel is too cheap and people are willing to throw money into the tank and because it doesn't arrive as a few hundred 2 monthly bill like the electric or Gas bill, it gets forgotten about.

nokia69 · 02-11-2015 5:29pm

I really thought the ESB would be clever with this and run the network at break even or just a small profit, that way they support EV sales and make the money on home charging

looks like I was a fool, this is Ireland nothing really changes

samih · 02-11-2015 5:54pm

If there are currently 1000 users in ireland and everybody pays 16.99 a month that's €200000 a year for the standing charges. That will buy two rapid chargers a year to replace broken ones.

Doesn't sound a lot tbh.

Villain · 02-11-2015 7:00pm

samih wrote: »

If there are currently 1000 users in ireland and everybody pays 16.99 a month that's €200000 a year for the standing charges. That will buy two rapid chargers a year to replace broken ones.

Doesn't sound a lot tbh.

You are assuming all will play, I don't think I will.

You also aren't looking at how it will impact the future sales and growth.

stesaurus · 02-11-2015 7:17pm

samih wrote: »

If there are currently 1000 users in ireland and everybody pays 16.99 a month that's €200000 a year for the standing charges. That will buy two rapid chargers a year to replace broken ones.

Doesn't sound a lot tbh.

It's not the overall price that's wrong. I think most people would be happy to pay over €200 per year. It's the way it's structured that's wrong. It will reward people who hog the chargers and punish those that use it infrequently.
Nobody will be able to manage without fast charging at some point so it's not like we'd have a choice, it's really punitive.
Just put a per kw charge on them and be done with it. It's so simple but they are really making a mess of it.

Also this probably goes without saying but at the moment because it's free I'm happy enough with the service. If I was paying for it then they had better improve things a lot.
It takes ages to get through to report anything. Units are down for weeks on end and no way of knowing when they'll be back. Lack of realtime info, stupid app defaulting to poxy leaf chargers

, so many things they need to get right if they want to start charging.

nokia69 · 02-11-2015 7:19pm

samih wrote: »

If there are currently 1000 users in ireland and everybody pays 16.99 a month that's €200000 a year for the standing charges. That will buy two rapid chargers a year to replace broken ones.

Doesn't sound a lot tbh.

thats 1000 users today

there are better EVs on the way IMO if the ESB give people a fair deal on charging, EVs will slowly become a significant % of cars on the road, if that happens they will make plenty on the home charging, most of which happen at night and is perfect for the grid

they are being very short sighted

stesaurus · 02-11-2015 7:19pm

Villain wrote: »

You are assuming all will play, I don't think I will.

You also aren't looking at how it will impact the future sales and growth.

You will, you know you will. Unless you plan on keeping your car to a ~120km radius which is just silly.

Villain · 02-11-2015 7:49pm

s.welstead wrote: »

You will, you know you will. Unless you plan on keeping your car to a ~120km radius which is just silly.

Well I have it a year with 15,000km done and 99% of that was done from home charging.

ESB public charging plans

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