How would you fix the country?? (For the Layman)

juno75 · 13-06-2003 11:46am #1

After watching all the doom and gloom on 6.1 last night ,especially the governments bad management of the nations
finances with rampent inflation, all the broken promises, health care (dont get sick in this country or you'll die- 60 year old biddy interviewed on o'connel st last night)
crime,drugs you get the idea!

So I got to thinking, seeing as there are some bright sparks
posting on this forum what would be your solutions if ye had the power. Anything goes, fresh ideas bring em on.

Lets fix this little green lump of rock:rolleyes:

bringitdown · 13-06-2003 11:54am

I would arrest everyone with a dodgy beard / mullett.

That'll solve all our problems.

juno75 · 13-06-2003 11:57am

mmmm,

you maybe onto something.

Is this the type you mean?

www.mulletsgalore.com

Hyzepher · 13-06-2003 11:59am

Ok - providing the government could prevent retaillers/manufacturers from raising their prices - I would recommend lowering the VAT rate from 21% to about 14% and putting the increase on income tax.

Hopefully this would decrease inflation a little and encourage more visitors to ireland due to lower prices.

Hyzepher

Cork · 13-06-2003 11:59am

I would tackle any wastage of tax payers money. I would abolish town councils & health boards. I would then spend money in the areas of health & education.

juno75 · 13-06-2003 12:02pm

would a more radical ,leaning to the left type govenment do any good?
i.e. a younger government to represent a younger nation.

bringitdown · 13-06-2003 12:03pm

Originally posted by juno75

Is this the type you mean?

www.mulletsgalore.com

Spot on ... !

OT: Anyone noticed mullets are particularly prevelant amoungst women of a certain age in Ireland..

Anyhew a move like this would help remove the fat from the civil service, and there be a lot of fat to remove there.

Imposter · 13-06-2003 12:11pm

First i would tackle the drug and addictions problem. That would hopefully solve a lot of the petty crime that's going on. I would make parents responsible for their children. If a kid breaks the law the parent gets done/fined as well. (Might need to reform guards/courts etc first!)

Then once crime is minimised and it's begining to become a country that's safe to live in, I'd go about tackling rip-off merchants. Top of the list is publicans where i'd open-up the licencing laws, so that anyone with proper premises, who runs the pub themselves can have a licence and give the current crop NOTHING in the way of compensation. If they paid millions for a licence boo hoo, it was their greed in the first place.

And then once all that is done, roads, public transport, hospitals etc can be tackled.

Should only take a year or so!

juno75 · 13-06-2003 12:11pm

Anyhew a move like this would help remove the fat from the civil service, and there be a lot of fat to remove there.

i like your jive man, you ever thought about a career in politics?

Lemming · 13-06-2003 12:15pm

I think that a major drainage of resources comes from the current, bloated health service. Whilst the hospitals are underfunded, they do have a lot of wastage, which needs to be addressed.

BUT the biggest culprit are the healthboards. Each one has an MD, Head-Accountant, etc, etc on bloated salaries. I would suggest culling the number of healhboards into, say one for the each of the major cities and then one for each province.

So a total of about 8 health-boards over the current double digit figure. Then devolve responsibilities to smaller "branches" throughout these regions. So you've just culled a rather large amount of senior administrative costs, allowing this to go to where it's needed .. the "front lines".

You wont see AIB having an MD, Chief Accountant, etc, etc. in every branch, so why should the health boards?

Then we need to do something about the inflation/cost-of-living fiasco in this country. A major culprit is insurance. Hammer the vultures until they're battered and bleeding and begging to behave from now on. Then hammer anyone not passing on the savings they've made to customers (eg. public insurance costs for a premises)

Initially would probably cost a bit in court. But if you show that you will not take sh*t, people will start to toe the line. It's a sad state of affairs when you have to threaten people with court action to make them behave, but that's the state Ireland is in now.

On top of that, the affiliation between teh judiciary and the politicians needs to be broken. Currently you've got to be kissing the wrinkly rear-end of some aging TD to get onto the bench. Politician's need to have a healthy respect for the wrath of the law just like anyone else.

The tax loop-holes need to be closed down water-tight too. The horsey set need to bite the bullet, as does the artist exemption tax and a few others.

bringitdown · 13-06-2003 12:17pm

Originally posted by juno75
i like your jive man, you ever thought about a career in politics?

Funny you should say that, I have done, but am off to form a forgein policy first ... in a years time who knows ... persons with dodgy facial hair and mulleted crowns maybe running to their local hairdressers in an effort to keep their jobs!

All-tho maybe we could widen it to anyone who has ever had a mullet and/or dodgy facial hair. Where do you draw the line tho'...
An interesting debate I'd imagine.

juno75 · 13-06-2003 12:30pm

You wont see AIB having an MD, Chief Accountant, etc, etc. in every branch, so why should the health boards?

Lemming, I hope to god some peeps like you get into government ASAP.
Nice one.

PH01 · 13-06-2003 12:32pm

Originally posted by juno75
After watching all the doom and gloom on 6.1 last night ,especially the governments bad management of the nations
finances with rampent inflation, all the broken promises, health care (dont get sick in this country or you'll die- 60 year old biddy interviewed on o'connel st last night)
crime,drugs you get the idea!

First of all
Don't believe all you hear, see or read from the 'meeja', especially RTE. When stories are light on the ground they resort to government bashing - lazy journalism.

Here's a few policies I would persue if I was in power...
1. Reform the Health service and demand value for money. In the last 5 years the govenment has increased the Health budget three fold, and what did they get for it? A disgraseful 2% reduction in waiting lists!
The Health service is rotten to the core. Only 33% of the Staff in the Health services are doctors and nurces! What the F### are the rest doing? Fire the lot of them.
2. Spend the money I save in Health on infrastructure.
3. Borrow for capital spending - making sure I get value for money.

well that's for starters

bringitdown · 13-06-2003 12:39pm

Originally posted by PH01

Here's a few policies I would persue if I was in power...
1. Reform the Health service and demand value for money. In the last 5 years the govenment has increased the Health budget three fold, and what did they get for it? A disgraseful 2% reduction in waiting lists!
The Health service is rotten to the core. Only 33% of the Staff in the Health services are doctors and nurces! What the F### are the rest doing? Fire the lot of them.
2. Spend the money I save in Health on infrastructure.
3. Borrow for capital spending - making sure I get value for money.

Yes, yes ... excellent points ... but one thing about capital spending here. How come it costs us so much to build anything. Can we simply put it down to higher wages, insurance and land prices?

e.g. Portugal can build 6 stadiums for our one.

Do we need to tackle both the public sector and the unregulated private sector cartels .. e.g. construction, services etc.?

"The Al-ighty -ollar?, Oh I get it, ha ha ha"

Hyzepher · 13-06-2003 12:48pm

With regard to infrastructure.

Presently the whole situation regarding building anything in this country is madness - quote one price then 6 months later increase it. I would ensure that all contracts were based on a 'per job' basis and not on a rolling expeniture like it is now - quote a price - do it for that price.

If Portugal can build 6 stadiums for our 1 then I would hire them to do it for us - when it come to Irish tax payers money I'm not fussy who does the job as long as it it done with quality and value for money. We are in Euroland now and I would have no problems getting a fellow european to do a first rate job and leave the overpriced, lazy and slow irish contractors to lay idle and dream of the cash crazy days of old

Hyzepher

juno75 · 13-06-2003 12:48pm

Don't believe all you hear, see or read from the 'meeja', especially RTE

Point taken.

I do belive the atmosphere here is getting ,dare I say it dangerous.
Peoples moods have changed and bunnys are not happy ,
there is a lot of anger accross the board (forgive the pun)
with just about everything in the state.

For me I feel like I can sense something coming, all this anger and frustration with the inept management is growing and growing.
Anger pops at a point.

And the way the most political parties talk to the electorate as if we are dumb children who should just be quite and not worry
cause it will all be OK eventually.
That ,personally, makes me twice as mad.
Dont patronise an angry population.

Find me one person that is not VERY VERY upset at the state of this land.

Thats apart from the lard arse government /horsey set /devolopers - you know, the usuall suspects.

Sparks · 13-06-2003 1:13pm

So I got to thinking, seeing as there are some bright sparks posting on this forum

Why thanks!

(Okay, I'll get me coat...)

what would be your solutions if ye had the power. Anything goes, fresh ideas bring em on.

Hmm. Anything goes, complete dictatorial power? Okay....

Thank you Ms. McAleese, but you're retired with full honours. David Norris, step up, you're nominated as President with an enshrined mandate to criticise shortcomings and expanded powers. You now have the right to refuse to sign a law onto the books, to address the cabinet or the full Dail on a topical issue, and you're the offical spokesman for the Human Rights commission just created to oversee government actions w.r.t. legislation and enactment of policy.
The current FF government are relieved.
The FOI amendment act is rescinded, and the original act amended to allow the release of cabinet documents in two years, not five.
The Dail and Seanad are dissolved and aboilished, to be replaced as follows:
All ministerial posts will now be filled by qualified personnel only, as is being discussed elsewhere. Peer review to select a shortlist of candidates, and election to take place from that shortlist.
The traditional role of TD will now be altered to that of regional representative. The body of TDs will have oversight rights on cabinet.
The new Dail will sit three days a week, M-W-F. Full prepared speeches as they now exist are banned. Proposed motions get ten minutes for presentation, uninterrupted. Thereafter, it's anyone-can-question time. Civility will be demanded, but unlike the current dail, you can call a person for lying.
All Dail meetings to be webcast. The equipment is already installed, and it's cheaper than a new TV channel. RTE news must carry a daily "Oireachtas Report" style report on the nine-o-clock news on the day's Dail session, when it's in session.
No more incredibly long Dail holidays. 4 weeks off - 1 at christmas, 3 in the summer.
Form specific Ministerial posts for specific areas of life. Sport, Tourism and the Arts all deserve a minister each, I would think.
Throw that electronic voting system as far away as possible and commission a new system. Dedicated fibre-optic links to kiosks in Town Halls and other election centres nationwide. Construct those Halls where needed. There's a reason for this.
Un-castrate local government. Allow for local taxation and end dual mandate. Require all TDs to have served on county or town councils in the past.
Rewrite chunks of the constitution to enshrine human rights in it to a greater degree than has been done to date; enshrine our neutrality on paper; enshrine as a right the ability of the electorate to call for a binding referendum on any topical issue within a month by presenting a petition on a specific wording with 4% of the population signed up to it for a national referendum; and 5% for a local one relating to a local administration matter. Require a mandatory 50% turnout to such referenda.
Overturn the Horgan v. Ireland case to eliminate the possible weaseling out of sticking to the constitution by the government.
Abolish the multiple health boards and replace with a more efficent system, actually following the multiple health reports we currently have, and sacking civil servants as needed.
Make incompetence a sacking offence for government posts.
Create an office of Government Ombudsman, make it an apolitical post to oversee government work.
Create an office of Police Ombudsman, same sort of pervue.
Add a mandatory school subject to the JC and LC cirricula - Civics/Ethics/Politics
Enshrine disestablishmentarianism in the constitution.
Create and codify a code of ethics for government posts - and make breaching it a sanctionable offence, up to and including sacking and criminal proceedings.
Codify an ethical code that any organisation receiving public monies must adhere to.
Create a traffic corps for the Gardai.
Drag the Special Branch into the light kicking and screaming.
Create an equivalent to the Internal Affairs division for the Gardai.
Install speed limiters in all government cars. Require all government air travel to be on Aer Lingus where possible, and by another commercial carrier where not.
Fund Basic R&D heavily.
Require that all third level institutions be audited annually by the HEA or lose all government funding.
Improve the college grants system.
Reinstate the educational capital grant scheme with the money saved from reorganising the health system.
Drop the idea of imprisioning Irish people in Ireland on the basis of foreign court sentences without review by Irish courts.
End the SSIA scheme.
Reclaim the national phone network from Eircom as it was paid for by tax funds in the first place. Run the base network as a national asset and let private companies handle customers.
Issue a new requirement for this new phone network company - whereas before there was a duty for eircom to serve anyone with a voice line, now they must be served with a broadband 'net connection as well.
Open bus lanes to car pooling cars with 3 or more passangers
Lower blood alcohol levels for DUI charges.
Order the Red Cow Roundabout to be redesigned.
Abolish VRT
Require that all Taxicabs be of a standard make/model/colour, have a set standard for taxi drivers, provide contracts to taxi drivers whose vehicles make provision for disabled people to make it a viable proposition to operate a disabled taxi. (Hospital runs and so forth)
Commission a comparative study of Irish legislation and political structure with selected other nations - Switzerland, Scandanavian nations, the US, the UK, the Netherlands, France, Germany, etc. - and actually act on the report produced to incorporate the best elements of these into the Irish system.
Promote sport on an inclusion basis rather than an excellence basis.
Require all drivers to resit their test in full, including medical, every five years.
Get car insurance companies to cop on.
Break all of Kevin Myers' fingers for trolling in the Irish Times.

Okay, I was kidding about the last one

But he's so annoying!

And wow - that was ten minutes of solid, 120wpm typing. I mean, I started off with just one or two points and I finally had to force myself to stop so I can get back to work, but hell - when you can type that fast, that long and still not have finished listing possible solutions, why the hell are things still so damn messed up???.

bringitdown · 13-06-2003 1:17pm

Originally posted by Sparks
Hmm. Anything goes, complete dictatorial power? Okay....

"Your ideas intrigue me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."

Lemming · 13-06-2003 1:21pm

Originally posted by Sparks

Hmm. Anything goes, complete dictatorial power? Okay....

Add #45 to that list ....

Round up the usual suspects from the government, tie them all to the base of the Spire, and then have them face execution by firing squad for treason.

#46. Every joy-rider + accomplises / petty-thieves are to have every bone in their hands broken and then made to sweep the streets with said broken hands whislt wearing placards stating what they've done.

#47. Vandalism/Serial Street-Violent people to be punished by making the culprits run the gauntlet of the Glen of Imal firing range ... whilst firing is being conducted. If they get hit "oops .. my bad ... such a tragedy"

heh .. I've finally found a use for the Spire

Ok - this is all pure wishlist stuff, but hey ... it did say anything goes!

Imposter · 13-06-2003 1:32pm

Originally posted by Sparks
...and I finally had to force myself to stop so I can get back to work

You have a job?

Anyways you seem to have forgot, drugs, addictions, homelessness, social welfare, public transport, broadcasting and anywhere outside Dublin!

(That's just off the top of me head so there's probably a lot more.)

...when you get a chance.

gandalf · 13-06-2003 1:33pm

OK just a quick input here as I'm in work.

The Health Service, abolish all Health Boards and replace them with a single Health Authority with clear lines of reporting and responsibility if things go wrong, no more ambiguity. The funds that are saved from eliminating duplicate Managerial and Admisitrative jobs can be diverted to setting up specialist treatment centres around the major population centres of the country (ie for cancer treatment so patients don't have to travel to dublin etc.)

The Dail and Councils need to be reformed. Reduced the number of TD's by half and redraw the boundries for election based on population numbers. Limit the number of times a TD can enter the dail to 3 terms and maybe extend this to Councils as well. Make sure that anyone entering the Dail knows it is for National issues and all local issues are to be dealt with at council level cuts out the "I got St. BlahBlahs football team a changing room" etc. crap flyers from TD's at elections. If a government performs badly their wages will go down to reflect the bad job they have done (this happens in Singapore!). No Dual Mandate (that has gone hasn't it), councils should be places that the new TD's of tomorrow get experience and not somewhere a crusty old TD holds because he wants a stranglehold on local issues as well.

Also put in place a 10 year time limit before which a referendum can be re-run.

I have many many more ideas but unlike Sparks am not gifted in the typing area and the clarity of thought area either

. (Jaysus Sparks come along to next boards beer I have to meet ya!)

Gandalf.

Sparks · 13-06-2003 1:41pm

Lemming,
Nope to all three - I dislike corporal and capital punishment as they tend to be rather ineffective and permanent (as in, no way to correct errors by the system) solutions.

Imposter,

You have a job?

Oi!

Anyways you seem to have forgot, drugs, addictions, homelessness, social welfare, public transport, broadcasting and anywhere outside Dublin! (That's just off the top of me head so there's probably a lot more.)
...when you get a chance.

Hey, I said the list wasn't done, I just had to stop for time reasons!

Gandalf,

No Dual Mandate (that has gone hasn't it)

Gone, but not uncontested - someone's taking it to the High Court in the next few weeks.

juno75 · 13-06-2003 1:54pm

wow ,

I am in wise company;)

Like I said , I am just have a laymans understanding of politics and econimics but these are some very though provokeing ideas!

We should form a Boards political party,
certinanly got the brains for it between us.

Boards for goverment!

Lemming · 13-06-2003 2:07pm

Originally posted by Sparks
Lemming,
Nope to all three - I dislike corporal and capital punishment as they tend to be rather ineffective and permanent (as in, no way to correct errors by the system) solutions.

I wasn't being serious with those last suggestions.

Well .. maybe the Spire one. I don't approve of physical punishment, but I'll make an exception for the current bunch of chancers in government

Sparks · 13-06-2003 2:28pm

Gandalf,
It's happened sooner than I thought - today to be exact:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0613/dualmandate.html

Fine Gael TD Michael Ring has instituted legal proceedings against the proposed ban on TDs and Senators sitting on local authorities.

Jimi-Spandex · 13-06-2003 4:14pm

Sparks, I take issue with some of the things you said. There's some other ones but I couldn't have been bothered to go through them.

For anyone else, this is kind of long, but skim through if you were interested in Sparks original post

Let me illustrate.

1.Thank you Ms. McAleese, but you're retired with full honours. David Norris, step up, you're nominated as President with an enshrined mandate to criticise shortcomings and expanded powers. You now have the right to refuse to sign a law onto the books, to address the cabinet or the full Dail on a topical issue, and you're the offical spokesman for the Human Rights commission just created to oversee government actions w.r.t. legislation and enactment of policy.

Ignoring the unconstitutionality of this, Norris, as much as I like him and think he's a brilliant and charismatic speaker, he wouldn't represent the views of the majority. We live in a democracy. As for the rest of it, the president already has limited power to refuse bills in that (s)he can refer it to the supreme court for a test of constitutionality. As regards one person having this power, I wouldn't like it and I doubt it would work, we already have the legislature debated by both houses of the oireachtas and if it were contrary to human rights, someone would have noticed I'm sure. Regardless of whether or not the president can do this, any citizen can challenge legislation (assuming they have locus standi) as regards its constitutionality. When the ECHR is incorporated into the EU constitution and adopted here that will have the same effect. Oh and regarding convening and addressing the oireachtas, that power already exists, I bring to your attention Article 13.7.1 in particular:
"The President may, after consultation with the Council of State, communicate with the Houses of the Oireachtas by message or address on any matter of national or public importance."

This power has only ever been exercised once strangely enough. By Mary Robinson if you were wondering.

4 The Dail and Seanad are dissolved and aboilished, to be replaced as follows:

5 All ministerial posts will now be filled by qualified personnel only, as is being discussed elsewhere. Peer review to select a shortlist of candidates, and election to take place from that shortlist.

If your aim is to create a cabinet of experts in their field, this is already possible as ministers can be from the senate. The taoiseach can appoint 13 senators himself and so he can pretty much do that. This has only happened once afaik, I think Garrett Fitzgerald appointed an expert for Health Minister in '82. (May be wrong about specifics)

6 The traditional role of TD will now be altered to that of regional representative. The body of TDs will have oversight rights on cabinet.

So only ministers look after national issues then? So in effect, the public dont have any real choice for who runs the country as the short list who are elected is not chosen by them. This leaves your system open to professional cartels and in this country I wouldn't put it past them. Also the lack of any real democracy would equate to a violation of civil liberty and right to representation. This may also result in an even more severe funneling of public money to certain areas of the country(i.e. Dublin) Can you spell decentralisation?

7 The new Dail will sit three days a week, M-W-F. Full prepared speeches as they now exist are banned. Proposed motions get ten minutes for presentation, uninterrupted. Thereafter, it's anyone-can-question time. Civility will be demanded, but unlike the current dail, you can call a person for lying.

You once again demonstrate an ignorance of the existance of us boggers. Do you expect a TD from limerick to travel for roughly 24hrs a week, be the presence you want him to be in the dáil, and also take care of his constiuency? Then you'll want to put a number 1 in the box beside the name Clark Kent.
You contradict yourself here. How would it be civil if people are calling each other liars. This custom exists so that Governments cant dismiss questions claiming the facts are lies.

8 All Dail meetings to be webcast. The equipment is already installed, and it's cheaper than a new TV channel. RTE news must carry a daily "Oireachtas Report" style report on the nine-o-clock news on the day's Dail session, when it's in session.

TG4 already has good live Dail coverage. I agree there's no need for a dedicated channel. If you want to see it that much tape it. Who's going to watch a webcast dáil? One would presume a very large amount of the electorate would be working. That said, if the equipment's already there, use it.

9 No more incredibly long Dail holidays. 4 weeks off - 1 at christmas, 3 in the summer.

Its not as if the TD's do nothing when the dáil isn't in session. The have to take care of constituency and deal with the local issues.

10 Form specific Ministerial posts for specific areas of life. Sport, Tourism and the Arts all deserve a minister each, I would think.

There is a constitutional limit of 15 ministers. This is good, there is no point having a bloated cabinet full of ministers for lollipops and staplers. This would be highly inefficient. Areas such as the ones mentioned by you should be taken care of by statutory bodies who can get the minister to bring in legislation via statute or statutory instrument

12 Un-castrate local government. Allow for local taxation and end dual mandate. Require all TDs to have served on county or town councils in the past.

Firstly, I would be of the opinion that counties are far too small for there to be a point in issuing local taxation. This will further disadvantage areas in need of investment i.e. the west. This is assuming it would be accompanied by a cut in income tax to compensate. I think this is Dublin 5 - Rest of Ireland 0. If it was then it bears not benefit to merely raising income tax and devoting a percentage to funding county councils and city corporations. Which would be far easier from a political point of view to impliment.

13 Rewrite chunks of the constitution to enshrine human rights in it to a greater degree than has been done to date; enshrine our neutrality on paper; enshrine as a right the ability of the electorate to call for a binding referendum on any topical issue within a month by presenting a petition on a specific wording with 4% of the population signed up to it for a national referendum; and 5% for a local one relating to a local administration matter. Require a mandatory 50% turnout to such referenda.

First issue will be taken care of by EU Constitution. The second is rather pointless, its a spin on one of the draft articles of the EU constitution taken to a local level, it sounds nice but then thats what your government representatives are for. The reason it provisionally exists in the Eu draft constitution is the decision making process of the EU, in that the EU Parliament does not initiate legislation, the commission does.

19 Add a mandatory school subject to the JC and LC cirricula - Civics/Ethics/Politics

I'm fairly certain civics is already mandatory. In my old school they brought it in as a mandatory subject anyway.

20 Enshrine disestablishmentarianism in the constitution.

By "establisment" do you mean something along the lines of "the maan" could you explain what exactly it is?

31 Drop the idea of imprisioning Irish people in Ireland on the basis of foreign court sentences without review by Irish courts.

Oh sure, this sounds great, lets waste more of our courts time because some people don't trust another legal system.

32 End the SSIA scheme.

Yes and let the government get sued by the million or so plaintiffs in a class action suit. That could quite possibly bankrupt the govt. Not just from settlement fees, legal fees also. If you merely say no, we wont pay you and back things up by legislation then you are not only being dishonest, you will sign your own death warrant as regards being a public representative.

39 Require that all Taxicabs be of a standard make/model/colour, have a set standard for taxi drivers, provide contracts to taxi drivers whose vehicles make provision for disabled people to make it a viable proposition to operate a disabled taxi. (Hospital runs and so forth)

Its a bit late for that. The logistical costs would be astronomical merely for a simple convenience. If it was a matter of being able to identify a taxi, the a simple cheap effective colour coded light system could be used. I'm in favour of increasing taxi access for those of limited mobility.

42 Require all drivers to resit their test in full, including medical, every five years.

The cost of having enough testing centres around the country would outweigh the benefits. Either that or leave the current system as it is and have someone sit their five year test every ten years.

Sparks · 13-06-2003 7:46pm

J-S,

Ignoring the unconstitutionality of this

Since we started this hypothetical chat with the assumption of total suspension of normal powers and dictatorship being used as a tool, I think that ignoring the unconstitutionality of the points I put forward is a good idea :rolleyes:

Norris, as much as I like him and think he's a brilliant and charismatic speaker, he wouldn't represent the views of the majority.

Actually, I choose Norris not for his talents as a speaker, but because of his record in politics which is arguably the best of any currently serving Irish politician with respect to human rights and ethics.

The president already has limited power to refuse bills in that (s)he can refer it to the supreme court for a test of constitutionality.

Actually, the president does not have that exact power, the Council of State must approve the action, and in the history of the state, it's only happened four times. With recent debacles like the FOI amendment act, it seems clear to me that change is needed to this policy.

As regards one person having this power, I wouldn't like it and I doubt it would work, we already have the legislature debated by both houses of the oireachtas and if it were contrary to human rights, someone would have noticed I'm sure.

It is most certainly noticed - but since we live in a democratic country and the current government has a majority, they no longer need worry about adverse laws being noticed as even if every last member of the Opposition were to unite in protest, they still get voted down.

Regardless of whether or not the president can do this, any citizen can challenge legislation (assuming they have locus standi) as regards its constitutionality.

As in Horgan v. Ireland - but they must also have the money to bring the case. Horgan v. Ireland, where the costs were split 50-50 came to 200,000 euro...

When the ECHR is incorporated into the EU constitution and adopted here that will have the same effect.

Agreed - if the EU constitution is adopted. But given what I've seen of the constitution, I wouldn't be relying on it at any point in the future, it has too many problems.

Oh and regarding convening and addressing the oireachtas, that power already exists, I bring to your attention Article 13.7.1 in particular:
"The President may, after consultation with the Council of State, communicate with the Houses of the Oireachtas by message or address on any matter of national or public importance."

And there's the Council of State again, but you're right, I'd overlooked that one.

This power has only ever been exercised once strangely enough. By Mary Robinson if you were wondering.

Why am I unsurprised?

If your aim is to create a cabinet of experts in their field, this is already possible as ministers can be from the senate. The taoiseach can appoint 13 senators himself and so he can pretty much do that. This has only happened once afaik, I think Garrett Fitzgerald appointed an expert for Health Minister in '82. (May be wrong about specifics)

The point of my idea was to ensure that there was always a cabinet of experts, not when someone wanted there to be.

I am intrigued, however - what was the record of that Minister of Health? (I was only 6 at the time...)

So only ministers look after national issues then?

All bar the minister for foreign affairs... which is how it works now!

So in effect, the public dont have any real choice for who runs the country as the short list who are elected is not chosen by them.

Well, firstly we have no real say in how the country is run at the moment, which is an equivalent situation. Secondly, your assertion is incorrect for three reasons. Firstly, the Dail would have oversight of the process, secondly the peer review process would be public, as is the norm for peer review, and thirdly the public right to call for a binding referendum would be the final safeguard.

This leaves your system open to professional cartels and in this country I wouldn't put it past them.

Neither would I, hence the above three measures and the rescinding of the FOI amendment act and the upgrading of the FOI act.

Also the lack of any real democracy would equate to a violation of civil liberty and right to representation.

Except that there isn't a lack of real democracy, there's a surplus of it.

You once again demonstrate an ignorance of the existance of us boggers. Do you expect a TD from limerick to travel for roughly 24hrs a week, be the presence you want him to be in the dáil, and also take care of his constiuency?

Ahem. *points to the dual mandate point*
If the logistics are worrying, let's change the days to M-T-W or something similar. At the moment, though, TDs serve in two bodies and sit in the Dail 4 days a week.

You contradict yourself here. How would it be civil if people are calling each other liars.

There's a difference between showing someone's a liar and calling them on it; and just claiming that they are.
You can do neither in the present Dail.

TG4 already has good live Dail coverage. I agree there's no need for a dedicated channel.

I'm talking about raising public awareness through time on the national prime-time news. And I said there's no reason for a dedicated channel. But the equipment for recording the Dail sessions is currently in place, they are currently looking at a live webcast setup, I'm just saying rush it along.

If you want to see it that much tape it. Who's going to watch a webcast dáil?

The same people that want to watch C-SPAN...

One would presume a very large amount of the electorate would be working. That said, if the equipment's already there, use it.

Exactly! And there are real-world plans to do just that.

Sparks · 13-06-2003 7:47pm

Its not as if the TD's do nothing when the dáil isn't in session. The have to take care of constituency and deal with the local issues.

Two things convinced me to add the specific item you're objecting to : 1) Dual mandate and 2) the TD's own complaints regarding Dail sittings.

There is a constitutional limit of 15 ministers.

And we've already thrown out the constitution as this is a hypothetical exercise.

This is good, there is no point having a bloated cabinet full of ministers for lollipops and staplers. This would be highly inefficient. Areas such as the ones mentioned by you should be taken care of by statutory bodies who can get the minister to bring in legislation via statute or statutory instrument

The reason for specific ministerial posts is to facilitate the idea of qualified ministers. A more specialised post allows for a greater chance of finding a suitably qualified candidate.

Firstly, I would be of the opinion that counties are far too small for there to be a point in issuing local taxation.

Didn't stop them doing it in the past or present in the real world.

This is assuming it would be accompanied by a cut in income tax to compensate.

Nope. Currently you pay income tax and local taxes (bin charges, rates, etc.). Same story, but more autonomy given in relation to those taxes for local authority.

First issue will be taken care of by EU Constitution.

Which is not likely to happen, given the general opposition to the EU constitution. Even if that constitution is adopted, you have to read the actual constitution - they do not protect Human Rights - the constitution specifically says that the constitutional rights cannot be used to challange a lack of national rights.

The second is rather pointless, its a spin on one of the draft articles of the EU constitution taken to a local level, it sounds nice but then thats what your government representatives are for.

The referenda point is the single most important safeguard that was in my hypothetical scenario. Pointless is rather a strange term to use to describe it!

I'm fairly certain civics is already mandatory. In my old school they brought it in as a mandatory subject anyway.

Nope, it's not, not on a national level anyway. Good for your school though!

By "establisment" do you mean something along the lines of "the maan" could you explain what exactly it is?

Disestablishmentarianism means the seperation of Church and State in this context.

Oh sure, this sounds great, lets waste more of our courts time because some people don't trust another legal system.

I'm not talking re-trial, I'm talking review, which is something else entirely. Look at the current state of soem foreign courts to see why it would be necessary. The US patriot acts, sharia courts in arabic countries, and so on and so forth.
I'm not saying over-rule them, but just don't give them carte blance over Irish citizens, which is the current proposal from McDowell.

Yes and let the government get sued by the million or so plaintiffs in a class action suit. That could quite possibly bankrupt the govt. Not just from settlement fees, legal fees also. If you merely say no, we wont pay you and back things up by legislation then you are not only being dishonest, you will sign your own death warrant as regards being a public representative.

I did not say "no and we won't pay you", I said end the scheme.
Thanks folks, but the government cannot afford to put up the remaining few billion. And that option was investigated in the real world prior to the election and if it doesn't actually happen in the real world I'll be somewhat suprised.

Its a bit late for that. The logistical costs would be astronomical merely for a simple convenience. If it was a matter of being able to identify a taxi, the a simple cheap effective colour coded light system could be used. I'm in favour of increasing taxi access for those of limited mobility.

You might want to tell that to the taxi drivers, those were their demands almost verbatim from last night's oireachtas report.

The cost of having enough testing centres around the country would outweigh the benefits.

The benefits would include eliminating unsafe drivers and thus saving lives. How much does one life need to be worth in monetary terms to outweigh the costs for the extra centres and testers needed?

Cork · 14-06-2003 1:08pm

Originally posted by PH01
First of all
Don't believe all you hear, see or read from the 'meeja', especially RTE. When stories are light on the ground they resort to government bashing - lazy journalism.

Here's a few policies I would persue if I was in power...
1. Reform the Health service and demand value for money. In the last 5 years the govenment has increased the Health budget three fold, and what did they get for it? A disgraseful 2% reduction in waiting lists!
The Health service is rotten to the core. Only 33% of the Staff in the Health services are doctors and nurces! What the F### are the rest doing? Fire the lot of them.
2. Spend the money I save in Health on infrastructure.
3. Borrow for capital spending - making sure I get value for money.

well that's for starters

I would 100% agree with this. Does RTE believe the health problems of this country - can be solved throwing money at it.

This is from an organisation that can only be kept going by looking and being granted a massive hike in the licence fee.

I believe all town, city & county councils need immediate closure. I would replace them with regional assemblys.

These organisations would take a more strategic view and look at the needs of a region. These organisations could be more accountable thatn existing town, city & county councils.

eob · 14-06-2003 1:59pm

- All paedophiles dispatched to some hell-hole for mine clearing duties.

- Devolution of Dublin as the national capital, switching it to Cork. Because let's be honest, Dublin is a bit of a hole.

- No more roadside modern art. Funds diverted into pothole filling.

- De-regulation of the broadcasting industry. Let the pirate radio stations roam free.

- €1000 fine for having a horse on a public road.

- National broadband via WAN.

- Illegal for the Legal Community to assist a client in a fraudulent insurance claim, on penalty of being barred from practising.

- Immediate firing of anyone in RTE over 50. Gaybo, Marian, the lot.

- Sensible insurance via a national insurance company run in a similar way to our excellent credit unions, instant closure of all the rest.

- Plough up all that set-aside land and grow oil-seed rape for veggie oil so that I can hammer around on cheap, green fuel that isn't extracted from some middle-eastern country by American 'diplomacy'.

- Nationwide ban on the Honda Civic.

Cork · 14-06-2003 3:48pm

I would ditch the bechmarking committments and put the money into hospital and school capital projects.

It is sad seeing public servants coming out moaning about the health + education services while they themselves will be getting wage increases under benchmarking.

There is a limited budget - it needs to be utilised.

The French government are taking on teachers at the moment. I think Bertie + Co need to take on Irish public service unions.

How would you fix the country?? (For the Layman)

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