Only one county in Ireland

Imposter

This is pasted from the Independents breaking news section. I was sure there was more than two matches at the weekend!

GAA Football
09:11 Dublin to face Derry in All-Ireland qualifiers

Hurling
09:18 Offaly beat Dublin in All-Ireland qualifier

This is somewhat related to the RTE thread I started and found no support on. I wanna hear ye now!

yop

Only one county in Ireland

you can link it to my arguement as to why the dubs play all their matches in Croke park, regardless of supporters or not.
Shock after hearing that the dubs will have to travel to clones! Listen to Pat kenny on Monday morning as they all moan about having to travel.

BTW - there is a 4 page pull out of the dubs training session on thursday night and the "Season So Far" dvd is for sale next week.

Gwan Laois

Yavvy

strange you should say that and dublin play their next match in the north

yop

strange you should say that and dublin play their next match in the north

Heard it there alright.... take that statement back, sort of!!

Waylander

Yop there are very few other stadiums that are big enough to accomodate the dubs fans. Also you may be surprised to hear that Croke park is considered a neutural venue. Dublins home pitch is actually Parnell Park. Also traffic to and from Dublin is bad enough at weekends without adding 40-60000 dubs going the same direction to the problem. When Dublin played Kerry in Thirles a couple of seasons ago it took 41/2 hours to do a two hr journey. So the dubs play in Croker for Logistical reasons as much as any other reason.

Imposter

Originally posted by Waylander
Yop there are very few other stadiums that are big enough to accomodate the dubs fans. Also you may be surprised to hear that Croke park is considered a neutural venue. Dublins home pitch is actually Parnell Park. Also traffic to and from Dublin is bad enough at weekends without adding 40-60000 dubs going the same direction to the problem. When Dublin played Kerry in Thirles a couple of seasons ago it took 41/2 hours to do a two hr journey. So the dubs play in Croker for Logistical reasons as much as any other reason.

I don't know that this is completely true. For example imagine if Dublin were playing Leitrim in Leitrim. How many fans would go? Dublin league games work fine in Parnell Park and very rarely if ever get sold out. Dublin's away matches in the League get very few supporters. Of course Dublin are going to get a huge number of 'fans' who want to go to Championship games in croker and any high profiles ones that they're forced to travel too. I really think the same would be true of most counties in Ireland when it comes to Championship matches. Most stadiums are full for championship matches and it definitely gives Dublin an unfair advantage.

Also from a financial point of view. Imagine lets say Leinster championship Laois Vs Dublin. Cost to family from Laois of 2 adults and 2 children. Travel to Dublin, park car, probably get food at some stage, buy 4 adult tickets unless children go into hill on a student ticket. Or play in Portlaoise with virtually no travel costs lower priced tickets (Ok probably not as comfy). Cost to similar Dublin family to Croker for every match 5€ for 4 bus tickets and match tickets as above.

However Meath and Kildare seem to play virtually all their games (not qualifiers) in Croker now too.

yop

When Dublin played Kerry in Thirles a couple of seasons ago it took 41/2 hours to do a two hr journey

Yes that is what every other county has to go through every time we play away from our county. It took me 2 2/3 hrs to get from Mayo to Sligo, a journey which takes about 1 hour. So why are the dubs treated different.

Regardless of wheather or not croker is "home" ground it is in the county.

I see now that the dubs are getting a week longer to recover for the play offs :rolleyes:

cournioni

Yeah, I remember when Cavan played Antrim 7 or 8 years ago, in Casement. It usually takes us one hour to get from my house, to Belfast. It took us 4 hours to get to Belfast that day.

Yavvy

It think it should be under stood that dublin are the gaa's biggest potential money earner. and protecting that investment is fairly clever. if not a little unfair at times. Also Very few stadiums could house all the dubs for such a game and what with Monaghan already playing there the dubs had to wait their turn.

Yes the dubs are getting an extra week break...arent Derry getting the same break ?

so I think there was a little financial wisdom and a bit of logistical sense here.

IMO

Imposter

Originally posted by Alany
It think it should be under stood that dublin are the gaa's biggest potential money earner.

I think the word there is potential. The GAA's potential is huge in Dublin but it has been losing in recent years to Soccer and Rugby. If the GAA was serious about maximising that potential there'd be a lot of changes made to Dublin GAA. Fine give them some advantages but on the conditions that things change. If the current clubs want to block any such moves then treat Dublin like any other county and give them none of the advantages they currently receive. Potential is useless if its not harvested.

Most larger towns suffer from these problems too and they should be looked at as well. As an example my underage club had a catchment of about 2000 people (children, adults, pensioners). The local town had 2 clubs and almost 30000 people.

Yavvy

Agreed.

some excellent points there, and your highlighting some on the major problems in Dublin GAA that just wont dissapear.

however I was refering to potential as in supporters and selling out croaker...which is unlikley for Laois V kildare for example.

Imposter

Originally posted by Alany
however I was refering to potential as in supporters and selling out croaker...which is unlikley for Laois V kildare for example.

Ok, if selling out Croker is the yardstick then yes I think teams like Kildare, Meath, Laois even Westmeath if playing each other especially, would at least 3/4 fill the place.

If profits for the GAA is the priority then yes, put all big games in Croker. If promoting the GAA by making the flagship competitions accessible to the grassroots of the GAA is the priority then make dublin play all their games away.

How many of those dublin fans will be at another GAA match until the next time Dublin play a Championship match? Surely it's in the GAA's best interests to worry less about what money comes in especially in the earlier rounds of provincial championships and focus more on providing more family friendly conditions and non-discriminatory locations for matches as well as ensuring that it is genuine GAA people who get tickets in the case of any sell-outs (which in fairness, it does try and do).

The GAA is not going to thrive if Anto gets his tickets to his yearly match or two while the family with young children who have real interest in the GAA and could have been potential players cannot afford to make the trip and buy tickets for their yearly match.

(I know some of the Dublin fans are real fans but there are a lot who are not, as in every county, but moreso in Dublin)

Yavvy

Ok, I think your offering a very narrow view to this and in some respects your correct. However the GAA is no longer soley in the business of promoting Gaelic games. They are running a multi million euro organisation and as such need to offer results right away, I agree with a lot of what you say..but its very biast and your not taking everything into account

Waylander

Yop I am sure that if Sligo and Mayo wanted to play in Croker badly enough the GAA would be happy to let them. However to most people that makes no sense whatsoever. As for your league v championship comparison, that is total bull**** as the same applies to every county. If Dublin are playing a big championship match not even Croke Park can hold all there fans, the next biggest stadium in Leinster hold well under half of Croke Parks capacity. Are you telling me two Leinster counties should travel to Parc I Caoimh to play this game?

Yes the extra expense of the day out is unfortunate and someone does have to incur it. However I think you are also playing that up as most GAA fans look forward to a day trip to Croker and like goping there acouple of times a season. I know that because I have relatives scattered around clare, Kerry and Carlow areas and they all like to come up. Also we have to pay Dublin prices fro things, particularly the pint, which will more then counter the additional expense the country folk have to pay.

yop

My point is that the dubs never play outside of croker in the leinster championship. If they win it they will then have had the experience of playing in croker through the whole championship.
The advantages they have is that the pitch and atmosphere is familiar so that when the other counties come to play there they will be unfamiliar with this and it is sure to get to them.
One of the advantages of playing at home is that you will have a larger supporter base than the travellin team, therefore you will have an advantage. Dublin never have this which is one advantage that they will always have.

Imposter

Alany,
Yes my view was slightly biased, but that was to counteract your argument which boils down to generating money for the GAA. Obviously the largest potential fanbase has the potential to generate more income and in fairness Dublin usually goes a good job of ensuring that Croker is quite full. But that's not the whole argument either.

What other issues am I missing?

Waylander,

Wrt league attendences yes every county has a far bigger attendence at championship matches. But taking the 'potential' in Dublin their attendences are less than a lot of other counties. Your argument re the price of a pint in Dublin is not the issue. We could go off topic and discuss how playing away from the big smoke would ensure cheap pints for dubs on their day out or even how people in dublin generally earn more to cover these extra costs of living, but we won't!

As for your comment about Croke Park not being able to hold all the Dub fans why does the Leinster council always seem to have Dublin playing in a double header at Croker? (Early rounds)

Yavvy

The issue here was about Dublins advantage over the rest of Ireland relating to GAA decisions. Neither Dublin or the GAA see that dublin have a huge advantage.

Yes we have croak park in our county...Thats it!

Headquarters is a fantastic stadium, it costs a lot of money and thus has to recoup that money by selling bums on seats. The best way to do this is by havng dublin there. Then there are maybe 3-4 other stadium in Ireland that could maximise the earning potential of the dubs. And even if the dubs do travle they are still the bigger supporters there ...That means where ever dublin play they have the most supporters....how interesting.

I would agree if Dublin got Wexford in the first round then the dubs should travel....which they did last year and a few years before that. Lets face it the dubs will travle if there is somewhere for them to go to. The gaa has a responcability to the banks to earn as much cash as possible and to the FANS to get as many of them into stadium as possible. If you look at it, this is what drives the GAA, it is never favourtisim of the Dubs...never.


Now there are other issues we brought up in this conversation which I think we should rant about...

Development of GAA in Dublin and Ireland
The cost of tickets
Double headders
Poor/not traveling support form counties (like Kildare, Kerry etc)

Imposter

Originally posted by Alany
The issue here was about Dublins advantage over the rest of Ireland relating to GAA decisions. Neither Dublin or the GAA see that dublin have a huge advantage.

But you're admitting that they do have an advantage, even if it's not 'huge'! To me home advantage is not as insignificant as you seem to be implying.
*Clarification: Parnell park is Dublin GAA home but Croker is in the county and seeing as it's the capital city that's not the dubs fault but it does give you an advantage, imo

As for the rest of what you said, I suppose i'll have to agree (even though i'm in a very argumentative mood today!) that Croker has to be paid for and yes it is a fantastic stadium.

And the issue here was also about the media coverage they get compared to other counties.

Waylander

Lads, over 1/3 of the countrys population is from Dublin so Rte are going to show what appeals to the biggest audience, again so they can maximise their advertising revenue. To my mind you are bitching about the fact that RTE cater to the biggest audience, and that the GAA cater to their biggest customer base. RTE also show at least one match not involving Dublin every week. Also they did not show the Dublin v Offaly hurling match, instead going for the abyssmal Tyrone v Antrim game which was always going to be a more one sided affair. In the eyes of the GAA, Croke Park is a neutural venue. If you consider it a home to Dublin, you must surely consider it a home to Kildare and Meath as well, as they play there as often as Dublin. As I said earlier the only other pitches capable of holding a Dublin v Meath/Kildare/Laois(since Micko took over) are Semple Stadium and Pairc i Caoimh. Croke Park is a much more obvious venue for any of these matches with the possible exception of Laois, who I am pretty sure would have been very upset had they not had a day out in Croker.

Imposter

Originally posted by Waylander
Lads, over 1/3 of the countrys population is from Dublin so Rte are going to show what appeals to the biggest audience,

I understand what you're saying here and I think both of us are coming from different biased views but 1/3 of the country live in Dublin, not are from Dublin. Also as mentioned before Dublin has 'potentially' a huge audience but sports like Soccer and Rugby take from this potential. The the way the dubs are talking here most of the fans would be at the match anyway.

To my mind you are bitching about the fact that RTE cater to the biggest audience, and that the GAA cater to their biggest customer base. RTE also show at least one match not involving Dublin every week. Also they did not show the Dublin v Offaly hurling match, instead going for the abyssmal Tyrone v Antrim game which was always going to be a more one sided affair.

This thread started because the Irish Indo, a national newspaper, in their breaking news section for Monday decided that only 2 GAA matches from the weekend were worth a mention. Guess who was playing in both.

The day RTE has to resort to showing a Hurling match involving Dublin will be a sad day for Ireland.:D

In the eyes of the GAA, Croke Park is a neutural venue. If you consider it a home to Dublin, you must surely consider it a home to Kildare and Meath as well, as they play there as often as Dublin.

This is true but it makes getting there for other fans harder than say Navan, Portlaoise, Newbridge would, giving Dublin probably more fans than they would have if it were held in a 80,000 stadium in Portlaoise. (In a big mad imaginary world, such stadiums exist)

Croke Park is a much more obvious venue for any of these matches with the possible exception of Laois, who I am pretty sure would have been very upset had they not had a day out in Croker.

Don't worry about Laois they'll get a few more days there this year.

Waylander

I think they will have two more days there, three at most this year.

This is true but it makes getting there for other fans harder than say Navan, Portlaoise, Newbridge would, giving Dublin probably more fans than they would have if it were held in a 80,000 stadium in Portlaoise. (In a big mad imaginary world, such stadiums exist)

I would not really agree with this. Newbridge for example is only 40 minutes to an hour from Dublin City depending on Traffic. Most Dubs from Suburbia would have to travel for at least half an hour to get there so there is not a huge difference in the hassle involved. In fact someone driving from Navan or Newbridge would probably get to Croker quicker then I would using Dublins infamous transport system. Also I know what you are saying about the Dublin hurlers but did you see the match they showed. They even said in the studio at half time they should have picked the hurling match. The dublin hurlers are in fact a much improved outfit and Offaly only pulled away from them late in the game. Dublin even had the lead early in the second half.

Yavvy

when dublin went 10 - 9 up I thought we would really cause an upset !

and then we missed that goal chance....oh well...next year

yop

Do ye still stand by yer point that Dublin have the biggest fan base and therefore need to play their matches in Croke Park? Based on Saturday it shows how many true fans the dubs have

Yavvy

Yes I do, There were many factors limiting dublins travling to the game in clones.

1. Special olympics
2. The Darby
3. Several Concerts
4. Work comittments
5. Club comittments
6. the unavailability of coaches to the game ( we had major trouble)

also remember that playing in croaker does add an additional 10-20 thousand fans to the mix there fore it makes sence to get as many bums on seats.

Imposter

Originally posted by Alany
Yes I do, There were many factors limiting dublins travling to the game in clones.

1. Special olympics
2. The Darby
3. Several Concerts
4. Work comittments
5. Club comittments
6. the unavailability of coaches to the game ( we had major trouble)

All of which are problems that other fans travelling to away matches never have to deal with.
</sarcasm>

Yavvy

har de har har...

I will say that if it was armagh and it was the 4th rounf of the qualified then there would have been a ticket shortage...

so yeah...maybe the dubs didnt travle as well as they could have but they are still the biggest traveling fans and by far the loudest.

Imposter

Originally posted by Alany
I will say that if it was armagh and it was the 4th rounf of the qualified then there would have been a ticket shortage...

As there was for the Kerry Vs Dublin match in Thurles a while back.
As for ticket shortages, there generally is a shortage for all major high profile games involving any counties. The Connaught final would probably fill Croker but it'll never be played there. Munster hurling final nearly always a shortage (and most stadiums down there are not that small). Look at the numbers that come from other provences for all-ireland semis (football) and finals. Always a ticket shortage.

so yeah...maybe the dubs didnt travle as well as they could have but they are still the biggest traveling fans and by far the loudest.

Definitely the loudest but the biggest traveling fans thing is debatable.

Waylander

The Derry fans were well outnumbered byt the Dubs fans. Also alot of Dubs never made it to the ground as there were reports of tailbacks on all routes to clones right up to half time in that match. Why these fans left it to the last minute to leave i do not know but they did. Also clones itself according to RTE reporters had alot of Dubs knocking around the town without tickets but they went for a bit of craic. I do not think it is even remotely debateable.

Jaden

the reckoning in the Clones Yesterday was that Dubs fans outnumbered Derry fans by 10/12 to 1. Kinda shoves the "Dubs don't travel" theory up it's arse.....

yop

Derry never have a large GAA fan base so that is why they had few supporters.

As for the reasons Alany, none of them justify them playin in Croker, same applies for all other fans bar the Olpmpics.

The truth is that the dubs are fair weathers. If it is not at home then they will not travel.
GAA use the excuse that no other stadium would hold all the dubs, Saturday proved this point wrong.

Yavvy

Yop the bus shortage was caused by the concerts and the olympics..I know Our club had 100 people to go...we reduced that to 52 cause we couldnt get the transport

Jaden

So let me get this straight. Derry people in general can't be arsed turning up for a county game, even if it was on in Clones, and because they don't fill the stadium, Dubs fans are "fair weather". I've never thought for one minute (nor had reason to) that Dublin supporters are any more or less fair weather than most county support bases.

Galwegians are famous for it. 10 years ago when Galway were a spent force in Football, everyone in the county followed Hurling. When they wrere stong in the late 90's, and hurling was on a bit of a downer, everyone jumped ship. That's the nature of success.

The most loyal of all supporters are the ones in Kerry. Everyone else is pretty much the same.

Yavvy

jaden..Kerry supporters are the biggest offenders of fair wether that I have ever seen ..even more so than others cause they dont show up for matches outside kerry untill munster final stage and then they dissapear until all Ireland final day again.

I love kerry...Its my second home ...but Im not a fan of their support

Waylander

Yop two years ago the Dubs filled Semple Stadium twice in two weeks, This year due to lack of transport and other reasons I mentioned we only had about 80-90% of our allocation used up. Also for the weekend that was in it there were alot of other attractions in Dublin that weekend, and also the fact the match was on a Saturday when traditionally matches are played on a Sunday may also have been a factor. Dublin fans outnumbered their opponent s by 10 to 1 and you are still sh*ting on about fair weather fans.