DART upgrades

Victor

I was at a presentation by the DASH (DART and Suburban Enhancement) office last week which aims to upgrade much of these lines with longer trains, better stations and eventually higher peak-time frequencies (oh for higher off-peak frequencies ).

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_and_suburban_enhancement.asp

sligoliner

They are the only rail company in Euope doing this. Everybody else is installing singnalling systems to allow more frequent trains which is the only way to solve the capacity problem. Irish Rail is spending a fortune for very little return.

This snow job has more to do with the DART drivers refusing to work new rosters more than anything else. This 'solution' allows the unions to not have to charge their work habits while we the public are forced to spend money on land aquisitions, extra rolling stock with little or no improvement in service.

Qadhafi

solution:

Automate all the trains and sack all the workers whatever the cost. whatever is saved in wages and no unions to deal with will be worth it.

regular offpeak service would be possible !

Unions helping to hold this country back in the stone age

dmeehan

i think the addition of an extra door (or 2) to every carriage would greatly improve things

trains would spend less time at stations as the passengers could get on and off quicker. the crowds that have to squeeze through 2 doors on each carriage is ridiculous

jerk

i find it unbelieveable that a 4 carriage dart rolls into tara st at 6.20, and people have to stand on top of each other, i'm on this train every day and by adding an extra carriage or two it would greatly decrease the wait time in the station and also allow for more people to get seats making the journey more comfortable.

This like every other public service ni the country is a sham.
Thank god I'm emigrating.
"Would the last person to leave Ireland please turn out the light."

commuterised

Isn't there a problem with platform length?
I'm not sure if this affects all of the DART stations but I know it definitely affects some surburban routes.
When I get the Arklow train to Kilcoole, I have to make sure I am up to top of the train otherwise it's a fair ol leap out the door into the ditch.

loyatemu

sligoliner is right here. the peak period is only about 90 minutes long - they need to run more trains in this period, not longer ones.

the obstacle to this is lack of capacity between pearse and connolly yet the resignalling of this section has been put back due to funding shortage and won't happen for another couple of years.

this work would probably cost less than 1km of new road - its unbelievable that it is not being done.

Victor

Originally posted by loyatemu
sligoliner is right here. the peak period is only about 90 minutes long - they need to run more trains in this period, not longer ones.

It needs both. Subway in New York runs with 10 car (maybe more) trains.

The problem with doors is curved platforms, meaning there would be too great a gap if doors were fitted at the very centre or towards the ends of carriages. The red arrow on the sketch explains a lot. Remember we are dealing with the oldest commuter railway in the world.

sceptre

Tannoy: "Mind the Gap"

There we go, most of the problem solved.

loyatemu

The problem with doors is curved platforms

this is a bit exaggerated - the platforms aren't that curved. Anyway there are already large gaps (see connolly platform 5)and people don't fall into them

dmeehan

Originally posted by loyatemu
The problem with doors is curved platforms

this is a bit exaggerated - the platforms aren't that curved. Anyway there are already large gaps (see connolly platform 5)and people don't fall into them

some idiots do, god bless them:rolleyes:

drrnwbb

Originally posted by Victor
It needs both. Subway in New York runs with 10 car (maybe more) trains.

The problem with doors is curved platforms

there is also a platform in new york (i think its union station) where they platform comes out to meet the subway after it has stopped. its just little metal grills that come out a few inches to close the gap.

dw

Ro

Originally posted by Victor
It needs both. Subway in New York runs with 10 car (maybe more) trains.

They do indeed. I was on a BART once in San Francisco and it had 13 carriages! It tells you on the display how many carriages the next train has too.

Irish Rail need to get that signaling sorted so they can have trains every 5 mins at peak time. I couldn't beleve when I saw the signs on the Barcelona metro counting down in seconds! There was a train every 3 mins and that wasn't even peak time.

dazberry

Originally posted by Ro
Irish Rail need to get that signaling sorted so they can have trains every 5 mins at peak time. I couldn't beleve when I saw the signs on the Barcelona metro counting down in seconds! There was a train every 3 mins and that wasn't even peak time.

Hadn't thought about this much 'cos I'm stuck on Dublin Pus clogging up the city before but you're right here, and I suspect sligoliner hit the nail on the head (re unions).

Run twice as many darts in the same time period and you double capacity, add two carriages to a four carriage train and you increase capacity by 50% (or two to a six carriage train and its 25% - its been so long, can't remember how many carriages are the standard now).

D.

John R

Originally posted by dazberry
Hadn't thought about this much 'cos I'm stuck on Dublin Pus clogging up the city before but you're right here, and I suspect sligoliner hit the nail on the head (re unions).

Run twice as many darts in the same time period and you double capacity, add two carriages to a four carriage train and you increase capacity by 50% (or two to a six carriage train and its 25% - its been so long, can't remember how many carriages are the standard now).

D.

To suggest that Dublin Bus are clogging up the city is just ridiculous. Dublin is clogged up with cars, the vast majority of which contain just one person.

Once again Sligoliner is engaged in his favourite hobby; Irish Rail-bashing. As usual he is going too far, increasing capacity by lenthening trains is a cost effective and well-used solution to overcrowding. In regards to other European countries in most cases they use much longer trains than we do already and there are several instances of recent train lengthening projects in the UK.
I do not know if the unions have blocked plans for increased services or not, but as Sligoliner regularly points out IE management are pretty useless so I wouldn't blame the employees for not trusting any schemes they think up.

As for signalling, it has been obvious for many years that the Pearse - Connolly section is a peak time bottleneck. The solution of adding two extra block sections, one either side of Tara Street would greatly increase flexibility. This is neither complicated or expensive, it would cost a fraction of the vast amount spent upgrading lightly used lines to CWR and would be of great benefit.

Irish Rail's main problem is the complete lack of effective top-level management, there is nobody in control with the ability to respond to the needs of the system and authorise proper cost-effective solutions. Instead every single plan is dragged through a drawn-out and very costly process usually involving outside consultants who justify their exorbitant fees by turning relatively simple upgrades into large-scale projects and inflating the cost of every single component. This inevitablty results in IE management rejecting the ideas and doing nothing for a few years before starting the same process again.

sligoliner

• Irish Rail's main problem is the complete lack of effective top-level management, there is nobody in control with the ability to respond to the needs of the system and authorise proper cost-effective solutions.

Incorrect, they have Dick Fearn one of the top railway people in the UK with a superb ruputation. We have the man in Ireland that can, is, and will make the changes.

BTW, did anybody see the Irish Rail propganda sheet in yesterdays Tribune? Specer Dock, Limerick commuter rail, "Freight is great"..blah...blah

They should have thanked Platform11 to thank them for providing them with a vision at last.

Victor

Originally posted by drrnwbb
there is also a platform in new york (i think its union station) where they platform comes out to meet the subway after it has stopped. its just little metal grills that come out a few inches to close the gap.

This is Ireland!!!!! Where they can't even lay the track tot the right height for the platform. :rolleyes: Anyway they had to do all sorts of weird shenanigans with one loop station in NY in the old days as the curve was so tight that they front of the train would be pointing one direction while the rear was still pointing the other.

Originally posted by Ro
It tells you on the display how many carriages the next train has too.

This is really handy, it means you can board a carriage and get of at the exit at your destination station. I use it , however, if you tell everyone going to Malahide (very busy), they would all be on the second and third last carriages.

Originally posted by drrnwbb
Irish Rail need to get that signaling sorted so they can have trains every 5 mins at peak time.

On the DART, isn’t there one slot in the morning where there is only a 3 minute gap?

Originally posted by John R
The solution of adding two extra block sections, one either side of Tara Street would greatly increase flexibility.

Is there space between Tara Street and Pearse Station. There is only about 500 metres between stations. And an 8-car train is well over 100m long.