Why Q3/CS/Etc Sucks.

Jaden

I have an old P233 that my wife uses for whatever wives use PCs for (no self respecting man would allow his SO to use his real PC).

This PC also happens to house my old Quake install. It's quite big, full of mods, screenies, bots and demos. I played about with it last night, and after some Software rendered fun, I wondered why I didn't do this more often. I came to realise that the reason I don't is 'cos all modern FPS games are ****e. Here's a few reasons why:

1. Pansy weapons.

Remember when being hit with a rocket hurt? In QW, unless you were RA with 200H, meeting a guy with an RL meant you were pretty much ****ed. In Q3, hitting a guy with a rocket borks him around the level a bit, and means he has to put a plaster on his little finger. Pansy weapons don't have to be weeny to be pansy. Take the redeemer in Unreal. What a load of poo. Why not have a big button in the middle of the level that just ****s everything up when you press it. Tactically, it's the same thing.

2. Poncey Powerups.

Regeneration? Should be called "Couldn't be arsed walking over health" powerup. Not a patch on the Runes concept it so poorly copied. And Quad, last time I checked mean FOUR, not three, as seen in Q3. The Quad sound in QW, followed by "Enemy Quad!" team bind, normally meant running away very quickly and hiding in a dark corner for 30 seconds, or being smeared all over the place by the mereest touch a Quad LG.

3. Eye Candy Girlyness.

QW was brown, Q2 was brown ,green and red. What was the ****ing problem? You can't hide a poo game under a veneer of nice colours and fog. FOG, WTF? Muppets going: "I can get 2 zillion FPS on Q3". Wow. Some of the best players I ever saw played on Software rendering, 25 FPS Cap, MIPCAP set to something just above lego effect, and the screen size reduced to postage stamp areas, 320x200 resolution. I **** you not.

4. Footsteps.

The single worst element of Q3. ****ing Cloppety clop all over the place, like your running around in size 15 Doc Martens. Pah. May aswell send him an E-Mail telling him your coming around the corner. In QW, the first you heard of an enemy approaching from
behind when you weren't paying attention was the sound of your body exploding in a hail of gib.


Feel free to add your own.....

Nexus

Hahah Very nice

Pug {erZ}

So you prefer Q over Q3 I take it - purests say Q2 is the
best of all Q games ... hmm ... or is it you have another
game in mind ? ( Halo, HL, RTCW,what ? )

I remember Q on a 33 modem was fun back then - lots of
wire frame stick men running around - points nicely put

saik

www.promode.org

u mite like it

Jaden

Q2 - Best of them? Most rushed, most buggy, most patched and requiring the highest spec at time of release. Oh yeah, and Eamo plays it.

Q2 = Poo, it even rhymes.....

Promode - "Let's make Q3 look and act like QW". I have a better idea, play QW instead.....

MindPhuck

Originally posted by Pug {erZ}
.. purests say Q2 is the best of all Q games ...

What garbage. How can you say PURESTS and Q2 in the same sentance ?

Jaden

Easy. "Q2 is the purest ****e on earth".

melachi

Good for you, means that you won't ever have to upgrade your pc.

Wolf

So far you have only knocked Quake really id like to here your well defined rating on other modern FPS plaese?

Cake Fiend

Girls and wrinkly, slow old men say Q2 is the best of the series.

Wolf

Wot about wrinkly old girls ?

po0k

http://fuhquake.net/

Oh, and http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ is a decent FPS, if a little bit rough around the edges. More of a sim then a game really.

http://www.doomsdayhq.com/

more OpenGL goodness

phobos

jDoom, MAD!! :eek: .... hadn't seen that!

Jesus I used to make mental maps back in the day. I had the entire ground floor of my secondary school done, and the yard out side. Pity I hadn't the right textures to work with, it would have been popular amongst the folks from Salthill.

I owned both Doom1 & 2, but misplaced it years ago. I had it on 5 floppies (DM2) and 4 for DM1. Anyone know where I can get the full versions online, surely they've gone OS at this stage. I think I still have a CD with more maps and addons than you can shake a stick at.

But getting back to the core topic, I must admit I agree with Jaden in that the essence of the FPS genre just isn't the same with the more recent implementations (I say this, even with my limited gaming CV). QW is still, and surely will remain on top for quite some time. My first Mplayer experience was with Doom. I used to play it in Net@ccess in Galway just after it opened. That would have been aroung 1995/6. I enjoyed it immensely, and furthermore because I could run it at home on my DX2/66. Then Quake came out, and I just couldn't push my box to run it, and envied those who could. It wasn't until a few years later I could afford to purchase a PC for myself (P3 700Mhz). At this stage Mplayer gaming/ Quake/ QW had taken off big time, and I'd really been left behind. I knew it, and TBH at the time I didn't really think too much of it, because initially I didn't see Mplayer gaming taking off to such an extent it is today. So basically not having a PC that could run the popular games is my excuse for missing the Mplayer gaming revolution. A few people on these boards I think had wondered this over the years. So that's the story so to speak.

However the first time I played QW was with Kharn & Trojan, and it was my first & best experience of Mplayer gaming (back in '97). I can honestly say it hasn't been as good since. CS pisses me off, I don't know, I never really had any interest. I played Q3, enjoyed it, but it definately needed more dog (as they'd say in the Simpsons). So I didn't partake in any LANs over the years, beacuse I knew that I'd be wasting my time. Yes it's good craic, but when you really (REALLY) don't have a chance, it really is a waste of time. Then in more recent times I've noticed more and more people talking about and playing QW (more specifically in FuhQuake form). I decided I'd stick my nose in for a look, and played a few games. In a few sessions we had there a few months back, I was happy with my performance, in that I successfully hammered a few noobs, while I wasn't being hammered by the people who invited me to play in the first place . So I enjoyed that

Perhaps I spent too much time getting games to work back in the day, than actually playing them. Jesus I knew every trick in the book to free up as much conventional memory as I could to run games. If I had come from a wealthy background, my parents could have chipped in to get me an early pentium, and then maybe I'd stand a chance today. But alas; history has been written already. ... :rolleyes: :cool:

....and now I'm the grandad, and I'm pretty sure my 2.66Ghz, 768RAM, GeForce4 Ti4600, box I have here is capable of running Quake. Pitty I'm a few years late, I'd probably have 0wned all your asses

;-phobos-)

Giblet

"Wow. Some of the best players I ever saw played on Software rendering, 25 FPS Cap, MIPCAP set to something just above lego effect, and the screen size reduced to postage stamp areas, 320x200 resolution. I **** you not."


Wierd because I play QW like that EXACTLY!

ButcherOfNog

so you're telling us Q3 is ****e? most people worked that out a few months after it was released and the novelty wore off and either went back to play QW or Q2, however, some gob****es thought that they'd be able to earn a living playing Q3 and this sortof kept more players in it than would have otherwise.

CS is a completely different type of game, its an RTS without the RTS bits, or something, see Natural Selection for what I mean. UT looked nice but in the end sucked almost as much as Q3, but not quite as much.

And as for pansy weapons, all area effect weapons are pansy weapons, the Q2 railgun is the daddy, and will always be the daddy as far as FPS weapons go.

Jaden

QW Vs Q2 debate was decided at QP in the Burlington hotel back in 99(?). I remember the generations mod being fired up, that essentailly let Q1 players play Q2 players.

As I recall, every Q2 player invilved was raped badly. This is because Q2 players are generally made up of people who were no good at QW. Nog, you should know, you are a classic example.

Asuka

Just reading this thread reminds me again why I hate the attitude of this elitist 'old school' just as much as I hate the average CS kiddie. QW was not a divine light. It was not the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. It was not the prophet which came bravely forth from id software to cleanse our evil ways. It was just a fucking game, and one I personally didnt like even before Q2 came along.

Ive heard all the arguments before, including 'Q2 players were the ones who weren't good enough for Q1!' and 'It was the only game that ever gave me the buzz!' and personally, I find both of these arguments quite sad. I played Q1 and Q2, never competitively, and I was pretty bad at both in equal proportions, but I actually enjoyed playing Q2. Is simple personal preference not something you can take into account? Or does it have to be because I wasnt good enough for Q1?

And yes, I have read this.

Originally posted by Jaden
Time for a flamewar methinks, they were always good fun. Now all we need is a bunch of immature kiddies, who wouldn't know they were being trolled if you told them while doing it.

The fact that youre trolling doesnt make you any less of a muppet

Cop on lads, ffs, you can stay on your elitist high horse as long as you like, but its not making you either friends or admirers.

A

TheDuke

lets face it... Quake is crap, was always crap and will never be any better.

ID a very clearly software engineers that love shoinwg of how spendour and rounded sourfaces they can display in untold colours - but don't mention game design.

I played DOOM till my retina withered away but after that it just stayed there (game wise) and never progressed.

I took some proper game designers to take their engine and put some atmosphere arround it.

Anyhow, I tried ever single version and always dropped it... although I really did try to like it...

UT was not as advanced at the time put each gun had at least two functions which altered game play - although I boght UT 2003 played one round and dumped it as it had inherited exactly the same illness as the ID team - same old crap with nicer graphics. :mad:

The Duke : ))

zAbbo

Originally posted by Asuka
I played Q1 and Q2, never competitively, and I was pretty bad at both in equal proportions

You never played qw or q2 proper, you weren`t any good at it, and yet you are in here spouting some "elitism ruins games" crap.

Get a clue.

The reason why qw(and q3) is so good is purely based on teamplay, now i dont play competively either, but there`s nothing better than playing with your buds against some johnny foreigners in some TDM or Grab-Teh-Flag, and the feeling you get when you have the flag racing back to base, with 3-4 guys on you back firing rox, rails etc.

Anyway from playing q3 i`m met some nice ppl, sound sorts, even ppl from bray.

Compaired to CS, where i`ve been in servers with an errie silence for more than an hour.

Anyway my 2c

Jaden

Asuka, just to summarize:

You've never played QW or Q2 competitively, but you feel the need to join a debate of the merits and pitfalls of each game, and then moan about a post that derides a game you probably haven't played in ages.

Are you in fact, so desperate for human contact that you will do anything to be heard, up to an including looking like a complete muppet?

Knowinging letting youself get trolled is the biggest crime against one's self-respect there can be on the intarweb. Love thyself and stop it.


Amp, Eamo, Help!

Asuka

Originally posted by bazH
You never played qw or q2 proper, you weren`t any good at it, and yet you are in here spouting some "elitism ruins games" crap.

Get a clue.

Ok, im expecting a few replies like this, being in the quake forum and all, but i cant honestly say your uninformed bleating is going to affect me deeply

Are you saying that you have to be good at a game to have an opinion on it? That you have to play competitively to enjoy it? Rubbish. I played them as properly as they can be played - I played them to have fun. QW was ok for a while, Q2 was an immense amount of fun. I realise your intellect is limited, but please try to follow the thread of conversation.

And the message was not 'elitism ruins games', nor in fact that elitism has anything to do with games. Elitism pisses me off, and is most evident among the so-called 'old school' QWers. They seem to consider themselves a better class of human because they still spend all their time trying to distinguish one shade of brown from another in a computer game thats several years past its best before date.

A

Asuka

Ok Jaden, first of all - as i stated above, my argument is not with the merits and pitfalls of the games competitively - i know what i enjoyed, but i dont begrudge anyone their opinion. My problem is with the attitude portrayed here by a decent amount of QW heads, which, even though this is a troll, is consistently there to see. Consider this as a catalyst to say something ive been thinking for ages, as opposed to a response to a troll The very fact that I know its a troll means that im not being trolled, just staing an opinion.

As for the human contact thing, if I were looking for human contact, I wouldnt choose the Quake forum to air my voice Its dead, Jim, goddammit!

A

TheDuke

this is a really abusive section... first time I ever posted anything here... cool... all other boards are incredibly polite...

so this is where all the rough'ns gather... :cool:

yaaaa .... all tossers... and what ever game ye like is crap and I f'n hate it... ...

The Duke : ))

zAbbo

It was just a ****ing game, and one I personally didnt like even before Q2 came along.

ok point taken, just venting some anger are u?

Are you saying that you have to be good at a game to have an opinion on it? That you have to play competitively to enjoy it?

nah, i never said that, read my post again, it`s more to do with playing in a multi situation with ppl you know as opposed to playing with mercs in a friendly enough atmosphere, of course theres always going to be someone who`s more obsessed by a game than yourself, heh think they`re called winners

If your point is that a lot of fun has gone out of these games, then yeah i can dig that, but wheres the line between fun/serious.

Imagine you start playing xxx fps game, its fun, you like playing it, the more you play the better you`ll get. The more you like it the more you learn the little quirks of the game to gain an advantage, but the better you get the more competition you want etc.

You can`t just stop playing say if you`r owning all your peers way2ez all the time.

Jaden

The article was origionally a statement, explaining why I went off FPS games. Maybe it was looking back at the way things used to be with rose (brown) tinted glasses.

Like Sex, Garlic & Cheese Chips and motorbiking, FPS games were more fun when they were new. It is not elitest to state so, merely a fact, supported by the mainstream opinion of this board.

Frankly, You remind me of one of those rabid PC types who are just looking for excuses to rant on about discrimination or elitism, or unfair dispersal of co-co pop stocks. Humanities wants you, go.

At worst, you are a girly man-muppet creature - at best, a thread hijacking whiner. You choose.....



Start a thread entitled "Why I hate all QW players cos they think they're cool, and I was too ****e to play, wah wah wah."

I might even post to it myself.

Asuka

Hah, Jaden, well done

That actually made me laugh quite a lot.

A

DeVore

Despite Jaden's, by now accepted, um... robust... method of arguing. I have to agree.

Nothing has given me as big a thrill as QW did. Ok, playing with nD against Fishheads on a lan for a weekend came close because we're all good mates and some of the games were close.

theres basically two things wrong about the scene atm...

1. its gone all politically correct in that the games are dumbed down and made "newbie friendly" and the weapons have the sting of a wet noodle.

2. Its going mainstream. Quake was fun partly because we were on the cutting edge and the people who were alsoo doing it had to be just like each other... oh maybe not in many ways but they all shared a drive to see where this new world would evolve.

These days you just stick in a CD, click "play online" and start calling people ChEaTaR FaGoTs!


DeV.

TheDuke

Asuka, Jaden kind'a proved your point with his last message... irony...

funny indeed...

The Duke : ))

Asuka

I can see where youre coming from Dev, but quake never had that effect on me. I thought not much of it when it came out, and it didnt increase my opinion that everyone else thought it was the saviour. I dont have a problem with people who enjoy quake. Actually, I dont have a problem at all - its more like a vague annoyance. But that stems not from people who think no game has beaten quake ever, but rather people who are condescending towards others who like a different game.

Its not about political correctness, just being tired, as someone who never thought much of quake, of all the rhetoric directed at non-believers.

Its like organised bloody religion, except more arrogant

A

DeVore

um... I've never looked down on anyone for the game they play. How thick would *that* be hahaha...

I played CS recently at megalan and it was a blast. It was fun because everyone was being cool and the games were close. I'm not *that* mad about the game itself but the feeling was certainly a welcome return.

Looking down on someone who plays a different *type* of FPS reminds me of Vampire The Roleplaying Game players looking down on AD&Der's... even if it IS better, you are still only one rung up the UTTER FnCKING NERD LADDER ffs lol.

DeV (who prides himself on his nerdhood).

WhiteWashMan

at the end of the day there is only two things you could say about the quake series.

quake was for poor people who couldnt afford a voodoo2 card to run quake2,

and quake3arena was for people who couldnt play either qw or q2.


by the way jaden, generations made the q1 player stronger and better and faster because they qw players needed the confidence boost


now, shove those 4 shades of brown up yer arse!