Water Cooling Questions

Diabolus

Hey.

I have a P4 2.5 Ghz and a GeForce 4800 ti with and a lot of hard drives. I am thinking of getting a watercooling kit for my pc. Is this dangerous? Has anyone here water cooled they're pc and have any probs or tips? Heres my case and the water cooler i wish to purchase - XBeam C400 ALU + WaterChill KT03-L20/220V CPU cooling kit which you can view at http://www.watercooling.de under cases and waterchill respecitvely. Any insight would be appreciated.

BabyEater

I had a couple of leaks with mine but thats because i made it meself a kit on the other hand are safe once you put it together right and also leak test it for a day or so.
As most good kits perform on par with the best air cooling available this should do somewhat the same from what i have seen

jow

Hi,

no it is not dangerous.

Just be carefull when installing it, install the cooling system first (including all tubing etc.) and fill it with water and run it a few minutes.
If it is not leaking then install the PC components.

This is the easiest way to do it. On the other hand: If some destilled water is leaking in the case... so what?

One of our systems (innovatek) runs now for over one year without a problem or leak.....
I would recommend that you check the tubings every 4 weeks ant thats all. You have to change the water every year anyway (except you are using a good corrosion protective.. than it can stays two years in the system).

I would strongly advise to spend another 40 Euros and get a water cooler for the graphics card... it is worth the money.

jow

Raz

The distilled water will be non conductive so if it gets on components then it won't short circuit things.
In theory anyway.
But if you start putting anti-corrosive stuff and colors in the water it's going to increase the conductivity of it.
In short it's best to make sure that there arn't any leaks and a prolonged overnight test with the system running the way it will in your computer is the best way to ensure no leaks.
If you get an install guide it should detail this kind of test. If you don't get one I'd be suspicious.
Make sure you clamp the tubes to their fittings, don't trust that they'll be secure.
You'll be pumping water through the tubes and therefore there'll be an inherent pressure in the system which could loosen the tubes if they're not properly secured.
Also if the pump isn't powered by a molex connector (ie. you have to plug it directly into the wall socket) then you'll have to switch it on each time you start the computer.
I saw pictures of a guys mobo after he forgot to turn on the pump and it wasn't pretty. The CPU made the block so hot it melted the connecting tubes which spilled water everywhere, shorted the mobo and graphics card and the heat of the chip melted half the components around the socket, including the socket itself. Unsurprisingly the CPU was burnt out too.
Scratch one complete system! :eek:

So if you're gonna do watercooling then don't take it for granted that everything will be fine. Double check things and take your own precautions. Not someone elses!

The destilled water is also called de-ionised and can be got in most car garages.
Watercooling is effective but it's not without risk.

jow

The distilled water will be non conductive so if it gets on components then it won't short circuit things.
In theory anyway.
But if you start putting anti-corrosive stuff and colors in the water it's going to increase the conductivity of it.

Yes that is right for colors, not for good anti-corrosives. Modern Anti-Corrosives are non conductive. Anyway, most manufacturers strongly advise you to stay away from colors in the water! The small color particles will leave thin layer on all the cooling elements and therefore you will easily get corrosion in the system and a reduced thermal transfer rate!
So, if you want to have colors: take colored tubings.

In short it's best to make sure that there arn't any leaks and a prolonged overnight test with the system running the way it will in your computer is the best way to ensure no leaks.

I have installed now over 10 systems for customers etc.: The good systems with the 8x1mm tubing screws are normally absolute safe. I had never a case of leaking when correct installed. You just have to check them every 4 weeks to be safe and maybe tighten them easily after a while.
I would be more careful when you have no system plugs and have to clamp the tubes.

Also if the pump isn't powered by a molex connector (ie. you have to plug it directly into the wall socket) then you'll have to switch it on each time you start the computer.

You can plug the pump into a power socket with a switch and then switch the whole computer with it...
But the modern pumps with a connection to the PC-PSU (Molex) are more easy to handle that is right.

So if you're gonna do watercooling then don't take it for granted that everything will be fine. Double check things and take your own precautions. Not someone elses!

Yes, don't forget to switch on your brain when installing them. Take care, check everything, think and then I would say: It is absolutely safe...

jow

Raz

I did give a kinda pessimistic view didn't I :rolleyes:
But then if you're pessimistic enough things can only get better
Take care in setting everything up and you'll have a completely enjoyable experience that looks quite funky

Diabolus

Thanks for the input. But i have two remaining questions. If i get a gfx card cooler thing can i hook it up to the current system and how? Also is the kit i wish to purchase a good one or could you recommend a better one for near its price??

BabyEater

If you are putting in a graphics card cooler put the outlet of the CPU cooler into the inlet of the GPU cooler then the outlet of the GPU cooler into the resevoir as you would the outlet of the CPU cooler.

jow

Hi,
yes you should connect the gpu-cooler to the system

If you are putting in a graphics card cooler put the outlet of the CPU cooler into the inlet of the GPU cooler then the outlet of the GPU cooler into the resevoir as you would the outlet of the CPU cooler.

yes you are right...
I would propose the following order:
reservoir (is in some kits direct connected to the pump) -->pump --> CPU-cooler --> GPU-cooler --> radiator --> pump -->

Concerning the quality.....
the radiator is relatively big and not very powerful, the pump control is not very sophisticated (they lay a 230 volt wire with a small connector in your case (a little cheap for my opinion)), the pump has no holes to fix it in the case (it uses 4 rubber sucking devices) and you have to be careful that you need 4 mounting holes in your mainboard! Please check that before buying the kit. Without the 4 holes around your CPU-socket you can't install the cpu cooler!
You can see a comparison chart of different cooling systems here:
http://www.hardtecs4u.com/reviews/2003/wakue_asetek_waterchill/index10.php

You have to decide...
jow

BabyEater

reservoir (is in some kits direct connected to the pump) -->pump --> CPU-cooler --> GPU-cooler --> radiator --> pump -->

If it was me i would put the rad after the pump and before the cpu as the pump puts some heat into the water. Not realy necessary with a small pump that only uses 6watts but if the pump uses 20watts or more you might see a difference. If the rad is just before the cpu you know the cpu is getting the coldest water.
You probably wont notice the difference but then you might.

Nitrox

I just put in my 340 euro system from www.aquacomputer.de and let me tell you it was a bitch to install!!!
The system listed in this thread is pretty easy to install and it seems to do quite well (made in denmark) so go for it
I wanted a bit extra performance and also a bit extra on the looks, so i went all out, but be prepared to modify your hopefully full tower case with a dremel or similar and still a lot of space will be lost, but in the end it really looks and performs great!!

I saw someone saying that destilled water is non conductive...this really seems odd to me as i have never heard of non conductive water and i will certainly not take any chances on this.
So the advice really is go for water cooling, but make sure you test everything for at least 2-3 hours before you put back your system in the case and preferably test it such that you will not have to dismantle it to reinstall your mobo and everything else as you could possibly have aleaking hose putting it back together again.
If you go for aquacomputer.de PM me as i need a few more componenents and is is fairly expensive and difficult to order stuff to Ireland. In return i will help you get the stuff you really need.

jow

Originally posted by Nitrox
I saw someone saying that destilled water is non conductive...this really seems odd to me as i have never heard of non conductive water and i will certainly not take any chances on this.

It is not the water which is conductive, it is the minerals in it. Therefore destilled water contains very little minerals/metals etc. and as a result it is _not_really conductive. Not really means when you use a very high tension (lets say 1000 or more volts or high amperes it is conductive. But this enviroment is not in a pc system.
Conduction of destilled water is around 10 µS/cm. Seawater has more than 2.000 µS/cm.
But you can make an very easy test: take a voltmeter and try to measure the resistance of destilled water... you will see that it is non-conductive.
Therefore no problem.... the cooling water will get conductive when it is too long in the system (metal vom the pump etc.). But you have to change the water every two years.

I think there are too many "myths" about water cooling.
Of course you have to do some mechanical work (with a dremel etc.), but it is not so hard as many people think.

I have installed a basic-system yesterday for a customer (but without case-modding....there comes the part of hard work when it has to look perfect ). I have made some photos... after my holiday I will put them on our homepage as a short manual of "how-to-install-a-water-cooling-system".

regards,

jow

Wavey

Baby Eater,

Did you get some sort of plans or blueprints for the manifold? If so could you post a link? Did it work out around the same size as a normal stock heatsink? I was just wondering if i made one could I use the standard heatsink/fan clip to hold the manifold against the chip.

BTW you wouldnt be a McD from somewhere near Coolie would ya? Sibling to Bull?

Apologies if your not.

BabyEater

Wavey you are correct as to who i am.
I assume by manifold you are talking about a waterblock.
If you want to make one you will need a hacksaw and drill at the least and copper bar aswell.I use the four holes around the socket to hold it down the safest way as the extra weight of tubes etc. could break the socket lug.
My newest one looks like the following http://www.overclockers.com/tips997/ except mine is less restrictive as i drilled the holes closer together and i also have bigger intlets and outlets.
More articels can be found here http://www.overclockers.com/topiclist/index31.asp#WATER%20COOLING .

Wavey

cheers BabyEater.

I think Water block is the overclockers term for the componant. It's essentially a manifold.

Any way, that neither here nor there.

Did you notice a big drop in cpu temp/performance? Would a couple of decent fans do the same?

BabyEater

I noticed about 10C at least of a drop in temps you wont get it as low with air but good air flow in your case will help your cpu temps a good bit.

Capt'n Midnight

First "The destilled water is also called de-ionised and can be got in most car garages" - no de-ionised water has been through an ion-excange system - not all ions are exchanged and even then if they have changed the flters etc. It will still have all the organics in it - and as far as I am aware de-ionisation specifically removes calcuim and is next to useless for sodium..

Anyway if the dust on you mother board contains salt etc. (if you live near the coast - if you have perspired etc.) then tripple distilled water will conduct..

Back in the CFC days you could put the whole board in a vat of CFC - so if you can find a safe non-toxic cheap - nonflamable liquid that does not conduct electricty and then immerse the whole motherboard in it - if the liquid boiled at say 40C then you would not even need the heatsink

those juke boxes with the ******* - they are actually boiling water - that would make a nice mod - though again you'd have to use a different liquid - the advantage is no pump - with a little ingenutiy you could get a circulation going with the down tube acting as a radiator...

Diabolus

I think that i'm gonna go ahead with my desired purchase. Thanks for all the help.